Sinless to be saved

[mailmandan]

If you want to be saved, you must keep the law of God which is defined in the 66 books of the Bible.
Keeping the law of God means thinking, speaking and acting as God wants you to.
I am speaking about the moral law, not about the ceremonial law.
The moral law: Do not worship idols, do not steal, do not murder, do not wear women's clothes, do not commit fornication, do not eat blood, and many more.
The ceremonial law was fulfilled by Jesus, therefore no one should obey the ceremonial law. If someone still wants to keep the ceremonial law, he has fallen from grace (Gal 5:4).

Faith means keeping the law,
loving God means following the commandments,
being a Christian means to imitate Jesus.

Matthew 19:16-17, "If you want to enter life, keep the commandments."
Matthew 5:48, "Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect."
Matthew 5:18-20, "For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven."
John 14:15 "If you love me, keep my commandments."
1 John 3:6, "No one who lives in him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has either seen him or known him."
Romans 6:1-2, "How shall we who died to sin still live in it?"

And yes, it's possible to keep the law of God, for Deuteronomy 30:11 says: "For this commandment which I command you today is not too difficult for you, nor is it out of reach."
And yes, there were people who were perfect, for Job 1:1 says: "and that man was perfect and upright, and one that feared God, and eschewed evil."
And why was Abraham chosen, why did God love Abraham? Genesis 26:5 says: "Because Abraham obeyed Me and kept My charge, My commandments, My statutes and My laws."

Romans 3:23 - For all have sinned and come short of the glory of God.
Romans 6:23 - For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

 

[mailmandan]

Sinless perfectionism is heresy. And I am very careful in when I use that word. Christians still struggle with sin, as is clearly shown throughout the NT, but we grow in holiness over time as we are obedient to Christ.

No, you don't.

Those who believe they live a sinless, without fault or defect, flawless, absolute perfect life 100% of the time (exactly as Jesus lived) are suffering from a terminal case of self-righteousness. (1 John 1:8-10)

 

[mailmandan]

James 2:26, "As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead."

The comparison of the human spirit and faith converge around their modes of operation. The spirit (Greek pneuma) may also be translated "breath." As a breathless body exhibits no indication of life, so fruitless faith exhibits no indication of life. The source of the life in faith is not works; rather, life in faith is the source of works. (Ephesians 2:5-10)

 

[Eternally-grateful]

Those who believe they live a sinless, without fault or defect, flawless, absolute perfect life 100% of the time (exactly as Jesus lived) are suffering from a terminal case of self-righteousness. (1 John 1:8-10)

and do not understand the law at all. nor what sin is

 

[Bruce.Leiter]

Those who believe they live a sinless, without fault or defect, flawless, absolute perfect life 100% of the time (exactly as Jesus lived) are suffering from a terminal case of self-righteousness. (1 John 1:8-10)

mailmandan, and a great amount of self-centered pride!

 

[Eternally-grateful]

mailmandan, and a great amount of self-centered pride!

amen, pumping their chest praising God they they are not like the sinner.

 

[Beetow]

.
A forgiven sinner is still sinful, and they'll go right on sinning same as before and
thus needing forgiveness again and again ad infinitum.

● Gen 6:5 . .The Lord saw how great man's wickedness on the earth had become,
and that every inclination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil all the time.

● Gen 8:21 . . Man's thoughts and actions are bent toward evil from childhood.

● Jer 13:23 . . Can the Ethiopian change his skin or the leopard its spots? Then may
you also do good who are accustomed to do evil.

Well; in light of the passages above, it's certainly no surprise to me that people
need to upgrade the very core of their being so that they would, by nature, be the
children of Heaven rather than the children of Hell that they are now.

● John 3:7 . . You should not be surprised at my saying you must be born again.
_

 

[Bruce.Leiter]

If you want to be saved, you must keep the law of God which is defined in the 66 books of the Bible.
Keeping the law of God means thinking, speaking and acting as God wants you to.
I am speaking about the moral law, not about the ceremonial law.
The moral law: Do not worship idols, do not steal, do not murder, do not wear women's clothes, do not commit fornication, do not eat blood, and many more.
The ceremonial law was fulfilled by Jesus, therefore no one should obey the ceremonial law. If someone still wants to keep the ceremonial law, he has fallen from grace (Gal 5:4).

Faith means keeping the law,
loving God means following the commandments,
being a Christian means to imitate Jesus.

Matthew 19:16-17, "If you want to enter life, keep the commandments."
Matthew 5:48, "Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect."
Matthew 5:18-20, "For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven."
John 14:15 "If you love me, keep my commandments."
1 John 3:6, "No one who lives in him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has either seen him or known him."
Romans 6:1-2, "How shall we who died to sin still live in it?"

And yes, it's possible to keep the law of God, for Deuteronomy 30:11 says: "For this commandment which I command you today is not too difficult for you, nor is it out of reach."
And yes, there were people who were perfect, for Job 1:1 says: "and that man was perfect and upright, and one that feared God, and eschewed evil."
And why was Abraham chosen, why did God love Abraham? Genesis 26:5 says: "Because Abraham obeyed Me and kept My charge, My commandments, My statutes and My laws."

You pile parts of verses on top of a huge pile without explaining that they all have contexts. Which ones do you want me to respond to? I don't know where to start, jarde.

I'll just say that, yes, we must keep the law's principles and teachings AFTER we become true believers, but we don't obey the law to BECOME believers. You don't seem to make that distinction. Why?

Eph 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,
Eph 2:9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast.
Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.

 

[donadams]

Wrong. To be saved you must voluntarily enter the New Covenant thru the death burial and resurrection of our Lord. There is no command you are violating if you do not do that; but even if you keep every actual biblical command but do not do this, you are eternally lost.

Jacob (aka James) told us that the Law is a unit, and to fail in one part violates the whole Law:

James 2:10
For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles in one point, he has become guilty of all.

So there is no "ceremonial law" apart from the rest of it. It is all one unit.

There is no distinction in scripture between ceremonial, moral, and civil law. All one unit.

No. Faith is hearing God and obeying HIM.

Romans 10:17 NKJV
So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word** of God.
Hebrews 3:7
Therefore, just as the Holy Spirit says, “Today if you hear His voice, 8 Do not harden your hearts as when they provoked Me,
As in the day of trial in the wilderness,

** Word: greek = rhema a SPOKEN (not written) word.

moral law is eternal
jurisdictional law given to the apostolic church Mt 21:42 mt 16;18-19 Lk 22:29
ceremonial law nailed to the cross col 2:14

christians cannot practice old feasts fast without sin and declaring Christ has not come in the flesh

 

[donadams]

You pile parts of verses on top of a huge pile without explaining that they all have contexts. Which ones do you want me to respond to? I don't know where to start, jarde.

I'll just say that, yes, we must keep the law's principles and teachings AFTER we become true believers, but we don't obey the law to BECOME believers. You don't seem to make that distinction. Why?

Eph 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,
Eph 2:9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast.
Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.

Living members of Christ in His new covenant of grace by faith and baptism, then we must abide in Christ by prayer, fasting, alms, mass & sacraments, and the practice of the virtues of Jesus Christ, (matt 11:29) (1 cor 13:13) abiding in Christ (Jn 15:4) keeping ourselves in the love of God, (Jude 1:21) and prayer mt 7:7 mt 26:41 carrying our cross mt 16:24 suffering phil 1:29 on the narrow road that leads to life, mt 7:14 enduring to the end (Matt 10:22)

 

[D-D-W]

moral law is eternal
jurisdictional law given to the apostolic church Mt 21:42 mt 16;18-19 Lk 22:29
ceremonial law nailed to the cross col 2:14

christians cannot practice old feasts fast without sin and declaring Christ has not come in the flesh

That throws James 2.10 on its head.

 

[GodsGrace]

Eternally-grateful

Very interesting that you gave a LIKE to post no. 128.
The poster stated exactly what I always post.

No need to obey God BEFORE we're saved because works do not save us.
Necessary to obey God AFTER we're saved because the NT and Jesus say so.

 

[GodsGrace]

That throws James 2.10 on its head.

How?

 

[D-D-W]

How?

Read the verse. There is no division between moral, civil,and ceremonial law. Break one and you have broken all.

 

[GodsGrace]

Read the verse. There is no division between moral, civil,and ceremonial law. Break one and you have broken all.

Read the verse??

You mean that you believe we are still under the OT ceremonial laws and civil laws?

 

[D-D-W]

Read the verse??

You mean that you believe we are still under the OT ceremonial laws and civil laws?

I am asking you to show us chapter and verse that draws distinction between those classifications.

 

[onlysaved]

Believing that one must be sinless by human obedience to ANY law is required for salvation is in direct opposition to scripture ,shows a complete lack of understanding of human depravity and know knowledge of self or what sin actually is.
I find it impossible to live up to my own moral standards, let alone those of a Holy and Just God.

Salvation comes to those who have gotten a glimpse of how unsalvagably rotten they are and throw themselves upon the mercy of a God who must punish sin.

We do our best in regards to sin not to be saved, but because we have been saved.
"All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned—every one—to his own way; and the Lord has laid on him the iniquity of us all."


"All have turned away, they have together become worthless; there is no one who does good, not even one.”

This thread is found in every book of the Bible. God saves us inspite of our sin but because of our lack of it.

 

[D-D-W]

christians cannot practice old feasts fast without sin and declaring Christ has not come in the flesh

Messiah in the Passover​

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[GodsGrace]

I am asking you to show us chapter and verse that draws distinction between those classifications.

You were responding to post 131.
You said James 2:10 "throws it on its head".
You were referring to The Law.

I asked you how?

It's a simple question.

I'm on a cell and can't copy and paste James right now.

If you could explain...it would be nice.

If you want to discuss the ceremonial, civil and moral law, I'm willing but a reply would be appreciated.

 

[D-D-W]

You were responding to post 131.
You said James 2:10 "throws it on its head".
You were referring to The Law.

I asked you how?

It's a simple question.

I'm on a cell and can't copy and paste James right now.

If you could explain...it would be nice.

If you want to discuss the ceremonial, civil and moral law, I'm willing but a reply would be appreciated.

I totally get the difficulty of replying on a phone.

What James 2.10 throws on its head is the statement that the Law was divided into sub-groupings; moral, civil, ceremonial, etc. No such distinction exists in scripture and I was asking you to show me and the others here chapter and verse that support sub-dividing the Law into the different groups.

As James said, if you break one point, like a ceremonial point, you have broken ALL of the Law, including the moral codes.