Lust

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elijah23

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Jesus said this:

But I say to you that every one who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart. Matt 5:28 RSV

I’ve heard many Christians say it is impossible to obey this commandment.

I have no interest in the opinions of people who intentionally disobey the Lord’s will.

How do the rest of you feel?
 
Jesus said this:

But I say to you that every one who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart. Matt 5:28 RSV

I’ve heard many Christians say it is impossible to obey this commandment.

I have no interest in the opinions of people who intentionally disobey the Lord’s will.

How do the rest of you feel?

I feel that there are to many people (especially Christians) who don't understand what the word lust actually means.

lust:
a passionate or overmastering desire or craving (usually followed by for ): a lust for power.

to have a yearning or desire; have a strong or excessive craving (often followed by for or after ).


Synonyms
7. crave, hunger, covet, yearn.

So He's pretty much saying that anyone who looks at a woman and really wants to have sex with her, its a bit different to looking at a woman and saying to yourself 'she's hot I wonder if she's married I think I'll go find out' or 'what a beautiful woman'

In terms of us as Christians, I think we can walk through this world without having to obey our sinful nature. God has given us the ability to call upon the power to do so.

But in a general sense (excepting those that have no libido) I would say it is in fact not possible to go your whole life without breaking this. I sure know that before I was saved it was impossible, what with the skimpy outfits and the near pornographic mainstream media and the free flow of pornography that most people get exposed to at some stage of their development.

As I get older in the Lord it gets easier and I look at many things with a different set of eyes now. I think most Christians will agree that it does get easier as you travel the path.

I would venture to say that nearly every pubescent male falls short of the Glory of God on this one.

The main point that I feel Jesus was making was that He was here to fulfill the law, this is part of it.

The law now condemns everyone and none are righteous. All men have fallen short God judges the heart of man as well not just his external actions!
 
I agree with Jesus that only God could cure a man of this lust. Lust being insatiable, never satisfied, void of contentment. No wonder Jesus said, for men it is impossiible, but for God, anything is possible.
 
Jesus said this:

But I say to you that every one who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart. Matt 5:28 RSV

I’ve heard many Christians say it is impossible to obey this commandment.

I have no interest in the opinions of people who intentionally disobey the Lord’s will.

How do the rest of you feel?

Lust is the greatest battle that everyone must fight with the help of God.

(1John 2:15-17) Do not love the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him. For all that [is] in the world -- the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life -- is not of the Father but is of the world. And the world is passing away, and the lust of it; but he who does the will of God abides forever.

(Prov 6:25) Do not lust after her beauty in your heart, Nor let her allure you with her eyelids.

To avoid what is said in Prov 6:25b, we must do exactly what Job did in Job 31:1, which says, "I have made a covenant with my eyes; Why then should I look upon a young woman?

It is true, only God can help us. It is also true that He will not control you to 'avoid lust'. When any person lusts in their heart, the Holy Spirit speaks in their heart and gives a guilty feeling. Hearing God's voice in their heart is purely the responsibility of that person not God.

Levi said:
I feel that there are to many people (especially Christians) who don't understand what the word lust actually means.

lust:
a passionate or overmastering desire or craving (usually followed by for ): a lust for power.

to have a yearning or desire; have a strong or excessive craving (often followed by for or after ).


Synonyms
7. crave, hunger, covet, yearn.

So He's pretty much saying that anyone who looks at a woman and really wants to have sex with her, its a bit different to looking at a woman and saying to yourself 'she's hot I wonder if she's married I think I'll go find out' or 'what a beautiful woman'

How do you say you don't have lust or desire, yet you want to know if she's married or not to make her your own? 'She's hot' is called lust of the eye as in 1John 2:15-17. You satisfy what you want to see with your eyes which is not from God, yet justifying it is 'self righteousness'.
 
Interesting post Felix, the Muslims cover the women and the Jews cover the eyes,but how do you get rid of the lust in the heart that causes one to cover something?
 
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Lust is the greatest battle that everyone must fight with the help of God.


How do you say you don't have lust or desire, yet you want to know if she's married or not to make her your own? 'She's hot' is called lust of the eye as in 1John 2:15-17. You satisfy what you want to see with your eyes which is not from God, yet justifying it is 'self righteousness'.

You see this is exactly my point, people don't have clear understanding of what lust actually is! It is a state of the heart where a person has let their guard down and falls prey to all kinds of voracious desires that consume and destroy not only that but they come to intentionally welcome it and pursue it.

If I am looking for a wife and I see a woman that catches my eye and I desire to get to know her there is no sin in this.

This is a natural and Godly instinct that God has put in every man so that we may find a wife that is pleasing to our eye. It is the initial stage of the courtship.

When people don't clearly learn to seperate what God has meant for good and what sin has twisted they soon loose site of the whole picture, then you have people flogging themselves with whips and spiritually beating down others in the name of some stupid puritanical false ideals that are in fact extremely damaging and evil within themselves.
 
You see this is exactly my point, people don't have clear understanding of what lust actually is! It is a state of the heart where a person has let their guard down and falls prey to all kinds of voracious desires that consume and destroy not only that but they come to intentionally welcome it and pursue it.

If I am looking for a wife and I see a woman that catches my eye and I desire to get to know her there is no sin in this.

This is a natural and Godly instinct that God has put in every man so that we may find a wife that is pleasing to our eye. It is the initial stage of the courtship.

When people don't clearly learn to seperate what God has meant for good and what sin has twisted they soon loose site of the whole picture, then you have people flogging themselves with whips and spiritually beating down others in the name of some stupid puritanical false ideals that are in fact extremely damaging and evil within themselves.

There is nothing called 'courtship' or 'dating' in Scripture.. but only in cultures which is against scripture. 'courtship' or 'dating' are based on lust. You can justify that you are looking for your second wife for the rest of your life till your death yet marry no one (living in lust of the eye) because scripture support polygamy and culture don't.

Read Deut 22:13-21. It is the parents who give their daughter to a man and take evidence of her virginity. The man needs to ask her parents not her.

Also, before marriage when a man and woman is betrothed, then they involve in what they do in courting and dating, not before that. If you think courting and dating is correct, then let me know where scripture says so.
 
Interesting post Felix, the Muslims cover the women and the Jews cover the eyes,but how do you get rid of the lust in the heart that causes one to cover something?

God does it. With a new heart and a renewed mind.
 
uh, most americans dont do the ask the parent thing these days. i didnt but i did meet both of them. they are divorced , the mother of my wife doesnt like me and i her, for what she has done to my wife and her own blood. do you see that cute dark baby in my avatar. because of mil actions she may not see her grow up. i pity her, but just because you have a psychosis doesnt mean i have to take your crap.

rant over, my fil loves me to death because i am the only man willing to ensure his only daughter will be taken care of. yes one could say that its biblical to pre arrange marriages and that was done up to say 100 yrs ago in america, but we changed. so if that was to be put back in it would take alot.

would felix want me a christian man to listen to my mom a former catholic at the time i was engaged and my dad a jew with other influences when they look for a wife for me?

some people come from families like that. i'm sure you wouldnt ask your son or daughter to marry a hindu if you were the only christians in your community.
 
There is nothing called 'courtship' or 'dating' in Scripture.. but only in cultures which is against scripture. 'courtship' or 'dating' are based on lust. You can justify that you are looking for your second wife for the rest of your life till your death yet marry no one (living in lust of the eye) because scripture support polygamy and culture don't.

Read Deut 22:13-21. It is the parents who give their daughter to a man and take evidence of her virginity. The man needs to ask her parents not her.

Also, before marriage when a man and woman is betrothed, then they involve in what they do in courting and dating, not before that. If you think courting and dating is correct, then let me know where scripture says so.

Are you serious? The entire Bible is filled with examples of courtship.

The song of Soloman springs to mind immediately.

Jacob worked seven years for Rachael yet did another seven because he got duped.

Yes it is important that a man has the approval of all parents involved we know this through scripture.

But only an idiot would marry a woman that he has no physical attraction to, this DOES lead to him being open to temptation and having all the cultural and moral standards in the world wont help.

Even your parents are not going to choose a women that they think is unattractive to you, do you honestly think that the son does not converse with his parents over the woman that has caught his eye?

The parents will always be reliable to make the thorough investigation into the other attributes of the woman but the man did and does have say in it.

It's only cultures that vary in this and some are totalitarian and politically based which does lead to all sorts of despicable behaviors like the false accusations of woman to get them stoned as happens in many middle eastern cultures or as in Israels day the writing out of letters of divorce, or even an abusive violent husband who beats his wife because she doesn't please him.

Jesus said this: "I tell you that any man who divorces his wife for any reason other than fornication causes her to commit adultery"

The system you have quoted had its flaws.

There is a big bar to meet in marriage and a man must choose wisely lest he fall prey and becomes guilty of adultery.

If your wife does not please your eye you are in for big trouble.
 
uh, most americans dont do the ask the parent thing these days. i didnt but i did meet both of them. they are divorced , the mother of my wife doesnt like me and i her, for what she has done to my wife and her own blood. do you see that cute dark baby in my avatar. because of mil actions she may not see her grow up. i pity her, but just because you have a psychosis doesnt mean i have to take your crap.

rant over, my fil loves me to death because i am the only man willing to ensure his only daughter will be taken care of. yes one could say that its biblical to pre arrange marriages and that was done up to say 100 yrs ago in america, but we changed. so if that was to be put back in it would take alot.

would felix want me a christian man to listen to my mom a former catholic at the time i was engaged and my dad a jew with other influences when they look for a wife for me?

some people come from families like that. i'm sure you wouldnt ask your son or daughter to marry a hindu if you were the only christians in your community.

Jeremiah 31

29In those days they shall no longer say:

"'The fathers have eaten sour grapes,
and the children's teeth are set on edge.'

30 But everyone shall die for his own sin. Each man who eats sour grapes, his teeth shall be set on edge.

There is a reason why we can have the ability to choose our own husbands or wives, You are right Jason..

2 Corinthians 6:16

"What agreement is there between the temple of God and idols? For we are the temple of the living God. As God has said: "I will live with them and walk among them, and I will be their God, and they will be my people."

It is not wise to marry someone who follows a different god nor is it wise to follow in practices of cultural pressures that you know will cause you to have troubles in your walk.
 
Are you serious? The entire Bible is filled with examples of courtship.

The song of Soloman springs to mind immediately.

Jacob worked seven years for Rachael yet did another seven because he got duped.

Yes it is important that a man has the approval of all parents involved we know this through scripture.

But only an idiot would marry a woman that he has no physical attraction to, this DOES lead to him being open to temptation and having all the cultural and moral standards in the world wont help.

Even your parents are not going to choose a women that they think is unattractive to you, do you honestly think that the son does not converse with his parents over the woman that has caught his eye?

The parents will always be reliable to make the thorough investigation into the other attributes of the woman but the man did and does have say in it.

It's only cultures that vary in this and some are totalitarian and politically based which does lead to all sorts of despicable behaviors like the false accusations of woman to get them stoned as happens in many middle eastern cultures or as in Israels day the writing out of letters of divorce, or even an abusive violent husband who beats his wife because she doesn't please him.

Jesus said this: "I tell you that any man who divorces his wife for any reason other than fornication causes her to commit adultery"

The system you have quoted had its flaws.

There is a big bar to meet in marriage and a man must choose wisely lest he fall prey and becomes guilty of adultery.

If your wife does not please your eye you are in for big trouble.

Song of Solomon was between a man and his wife (or bride) not lovers (Ref Song of Solomon 4:8-12). Song of Solomon is the same relationship as Christ has with His church which is the bride.

According to Gen 29:15-21, we see, Jacob was given an option by Laban and Jacob chose before her father. Also, for 7 years, Jacob wasn't courting or dating but working for Laban to get his 'wife'.

You are still mixing 'beautiful' or 'pleasing' with 'hotness' to hide lust. Beauty is from God and but when you say 'she's hot' it means you are already attracted meaning you had committed adultery with her already.

This is why, which you called 'physical attraction' to get your wife is still termed as sin.
  • (2Tim 2:22) and the youthful lusts flee thou, and pursue righteousness, faith, love, peace, with those calling upon the Lord out of a pure heart;
  • (Job 13:26) For You write bitter things against me, And make me inherit the iniquities of my youth.
  • (Ps 25:7) Do not remember the sins of my youth, nor my transgressions; According to Your mercy remember me, For Your goodness' sake, O LORD.
I agree, no one can escape this youthful lust or sins of youth, unless we have Christ with us in our youth. But this lust of the youth to desire upon a woman to marry her is still lust. I am not saying any cultural thing but what scripture says.
 
uh, most americans dont do the ask the parent thing these days. i didnt but i did meet both of them. they are divorced , the mother of my wife doesnt like me and i her, for what she has done to my wife and her own blood. do you see that cute dark baby in my avatar. because of mil actions she may not see her grow up. i pity her, but just because you have a psychosis doesnt mean i have to take your crap.

rant over, my fil loves me to death because i am the only man willing to ensure his only daughter will be taken care of. yes one could say that its biblical to pre arrange marriages and that was done up to say 100 yrs ago in america, but we changed. so if that was to be put back in it would take alot.

would felix want me a christian man to listen to my mom a former catholic at the time i was engaged and my dad a jew with other influences when they look for a wife for me?

some people come from families like that. i'm sure you wouldnt ask your son or daughter to marry a hindu if you were the only christians in your community.

The responsibility of a parent regarding her daughter according to scriptures, is valid only when the parents are Christians. Why would a Hindu or a Muslim follow scripture?
 
thats the point. few christians are really generational. yes we have those but that isnt all that common. trust me if my parents did it that way. i wouldnt be born, well if i was i would be a jewish man from both sides. my grandparents didnt like my mom because she is a gentile. it wasnt until i was born that they changed their mind.

grandkids do wonders:lol. i know, the one my avatar will be one of instruction for me when she arrives. who says parents that are christians dont advice their kids. if a kid is seldom raised in your manner here its kinda hard for a parent to select them for their son or daughter. yes, it can be done but if the parents of said teen arent saved or bride or groom to be, then how can this arranged marriage be worked?

besides courting not dating is biblical. on courts with the intent to marry, one doesnt date to do that. man i wish i learned to court first. this is openly telling the prospect you are looking for a spouse not a gf.

so how is that not biblical?i turned away some women because i choose not to have sex.
 
really so the idea and natural thoughts of telling your wife she is beautiful is a sin? really? so we should look for the ugliest girl first then and lie to her?

man oh man, please tell me you arent serious felix.look my wife is highly sensitive about her looks these days. she is 52, she wasnt the way she is NOW when i married her. she caught my eye when i was talking to a friend of mine , and whom i was interested in at the time but the feeling wasnt mutual. so i then talked to my wife(then just a lady because i noticed she was attractive)it was then i was like hey lets go to denny and talk.

love grows , one would think a married man would know this. its a lesson i learned. i am not the man i was in looks either i have gained some weight since that time in 2000. its been over 10 yrs since i met my wife. i still find her attractive. she may have the same beauty but theres more to love then looks, but it starts with attraction. dont tell me that you dont have that look when your wife wears that dress you saw her in one the wedding day or the same with you.

women beg to be told they are beautiful by a man. please that aint a sin. would you have us to believe that adam didnt look at eve and go WOW!?
 
I knew it, you guys are romantics at heart. Now what about Adam whose wife persuaded him. Does beauty constitute a weakness in the man?
 
Song of Solomon was between a man and his wife (or bride) not lovers (Ref Song of Solomon 4:8-12). Song of Solomon is the same relationship as Christ has with His church which is the bride.

According to Gen 29:15-21, we see, Jacob was given an option by Laban and Jacob chose before her father. Also, for 7 years, Jacob wasn't courting or dating but working for Laban to get his 'wife'.

You are still mixing 'beautiful' or 'pleasing' with 'hotness' to hide lust. Beauty is from God and but when you say 'she's hot' it means you are already attracted meaning you had committed adultery with her already.

This is why, which you called 'physical attraction' to get your wife is still termed as sin.
  • (2Tim 2:22) and the youthful lusts flee thou, and pursue righteousness, faith, love, peace, with those calling upon the Lord out of a pure heart;
  • (Job 13:26) For You write bitter things against me, And make me inherit the iniquities of my youth.
  • (Ps 25:7) Do not remember the sins of my youth, nor my transgressions; According to Your mercy remember me, For Your goodness' sake, O LORD.
I agree, no one can escape this youthful lust or sins of youth, unless we have Christ with us in our youth. But this lust of the youth to desire upon a woman to marry her is still lust. I am not saying any cultural thing but what scripture says.

Well you got me beat! I really though the man and his bride where speaking to each other as lovers and if you are going to try and claim they are not physically attracted to each other you need to hit the power off switch right now:

Verse 5:

She
10 My beloved is radiant and ruddy,
outstanding among ten thousand.
11 His head is purest gold;
his hair is wavy
and black as a raven.
12 His eyes are like doves
by the water streams,
washed in milk,
mounted like jewels.
13 His cheeks are like beds of spice
yielding perfume.
His lips are like lilies
dripping with myrrh.
14 His arms are rods of gold
set with topaz.
His body is like polished ivory
decorated with lapis lazuli.
15 His legs are pillars of marble
set on bases of pure gold.
His appearance is like Lebanon,
choice as its cedars.
16 His mouth is sweetness itself;
he is altogether lovely.

Verse 6:
He

4 You are as beautiful as Tirzah, my darling,
as lovely as Jerusalem,
as majestic as troops with banners.
5 Turn your eyes from me;
they overwhelm me.
Your hair is like a flock of goats
descending from Gilead.
6 Your teeth are like a flock of sheep
coming up from the washing.
Each has its twin,
not one of them is missing.
7 Your temples behind your veil
are like the halves of a pomegranate.
8 Sixty queens there may be,
and eighty concubines,
and virgins beyond number;
9 but my dove, my perfect one, is unique,
the only daughter of her mother,
the favorite of the one who bore her.
The young women saw her and called her blessed;
the queens and concubines praised her.


I don't even want to go into the proverbs over this one but physical attraction is extremely important in a fulfilling marriage and eros is made by God, dont taint it with your legalistic interpretation.

Your nit picky responses with things such 'beauty' 'pleasing to the eye' and 'hot' are akin to the types of arguments that I encounter from legalists the world over within every subject.

Look If I think a woman is hot or beautiful or pleasing to my eye its all the same thing to me.

It does not mean that I desire in my heart to take my clothes off and have sexual intercourse with her! That is a judgment that you are making and I think it may very well betray your own situation.

What it means to me is that she could go on the potential list if she meets other criteria, to be considered as someone I might pursue to be my wife. Or she may just be good looking! Simple, why write into that more than it deserves?

I never said that it is the sole criteria but it is most demonstrably a very very important aspect of the love between a man and a woman, don't be silly man! If a person is not physically attractive to you, you are in a very bad spot on this one.

I agree, no one can escape this youthful lust or sins of youth, unless we have Christ with us in our youth. But this lust of the youth to desire upon a woman to marry her is still lust. I am not saying any cultural thing but what scripture says.
Your missing the point of what Jesus stated, the first half of His statement was this: "you have heard it said that thou shalt not commit adultery"

He was specifically talking to married men here, his disciples basically said 'sheesh, if thats the case better off not to be married!' (see how bad their system was in those days, so chronic that they thought it better to avoid it altogether)

We know it is wrong to desire another's wife or another woman if you are married or to disrespect a woman or yourself in such a way as desiring to have sex with her before you are engaged in relationship with her. But it is not wrong to look upon women as a potential wife when you are not married and part of that is physical attraction.

This trouble that you are having in differentiating between what is adulterous lust and what is natural inbuilt reaction in a man is very close to the reason why Muslims cover women from head to toe.

They blame the women for making them lust instead of recognizing and addressing the problem that lays within their own hearts.

This leads to hatred toward women and and many viscous murders, it is pure legalism, the twisting of the Word.

Why can you not dived and separate between legitimate reactions and lust?

And why do you continue to judge the hearts of others?
 
I knew it, you guys are romantics at heart. Now what about Adam whose wife persuaded him. Does beauty constitute a weakness in the man?

No lust is the weakness! If your not controlled by it, the beauty is only skin deep :-)

But in terms of Adam, we don't know anything about persuasion it's not written.

we know this though:

"husbands love your wives as Christ loved the church and gave up his life for her"
 
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Seeing a woman is never a problem. Saying that she's beautiful is not a problem, just as scripture says about Job's daughters. However, looking at any woman with an intention to marry is obviously lust of the eye.

Levi said:
Look If I think a woman is hot or beautiful or pleasing to my eye its all the same thing to me.

Let me know which of the following do you think it's ok for your friend to admire your wife?
  1. Your wife is beautiful
  2. Your wife is pleasing to my eye
  3. Your wife is hot
Don't tell me all are same and I don't think the third is acceptable. Also, a woman must be beautiful to her husband and beautiful is not always physical. True love has nothing to do with physical attraction.

Levi said:
I don't even want to go into the proverbs over this one but physical attraction is extremely important in a fulfilling marriage and eros is made by God, dont taint it with your legalistic interpretation.

I don't think proverbs says what you are saying. A man and a woman is more than enough to build a family. The reason why you say this is because of the abundance of porn in society, which made many to have a high standard for beauty and high expectations as a choice for their bride, which is unrealistic. Women on the other hand are forced to expose what only her husband must see and enjoy.

jasoncran said:
really so the idea and natural thoughts of telling your wife she is beautiful is a sin? really? so we should look for the ugliest girl first then and lie to her?

man oh man, please tell me you arent serious felix.look my wife is highly sensitive about her looks these days. she is 52, she wasnt the way she is NOW when i married her. she caught my eye when i was talking to a friend of mine , and whom i was interested in at the time but the feeling wasnt mutual. so i then talked to my wife(then just a lady because i noticed she was attractive)it was then i was like hey lets go to denny and talk.

love grows , one would think a married man would know this. its a lesson i learned. i am not the man i was in looks either i have gained some weight since that time in 2000. its been over 10 yrs since i met my wife. i still find her attractive. she may have the same beauty but theres more to love then looks, but it starts with attraction. dont tell me that you dont have that look when your wife wears that dress you saw her in one the wedding day or the same with you.

women beg to be told they are beautiful by a man. please that aint a sin. would you have us to believe that adam didnt look at eve and go WOW!?

Why would you think that I am referring anything between husband and wife as lust?
 
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