1 Corinthians 14:18

[Agape]

I still see no point as it relates to the gifts of God that are given by the Holy Spirit to all!

There is much written about the Holy Spirit and the gifts that are giving to believers. So again do not see any relation to the gifts being limited some way to jews or in relation to jews. For a jew is one inwardly! This truth is shown throught out scripture, and is plain and evident that the gifts are for all who receive the Holy Spirit. For there is no difference between Jew nor gentile but all are "in Christ" that believe.

14. Bible tongues had a definite end. They ended by 70 AD, forty years after they began, when the Roman armies destroyed the Jewish nation, Jerusalem, and the temple. [highlight]Tongues were primarily a sign for unbelieving Jews, because the Jews required signs (Deut 18:21-22; I Cor 1:22; 14:21-22). But once Israel was scattered in judgment, the need for tongues was gone (Acts 2:17-21).[/highlight]

15. Bible tongues had a definite end. [highlight]They ended by 70 AD, forty years after they began, in perfect agreement with the prophecy about them (Micah 7:14-20; Acts 2:17-21; 7:36; Heb 9:10). God had prophesied the duration of this marvelous thing – forty years – and the climactic events ending it – the finished Bible and Israel's destruction! [/highlight]Give God the glory, and believe His prophecy

 

[Mitspa]

14. Bible tongues had a definite end. They ended by 70 AD, forty years after they began, when the Roman armies destroyed the Jewish nation, Jerusalem, and the temple. [highlight]Tongues were primarily a sign for unbelieving Jews, because the Jews required signs (Deut 18:21-22; I Cor 1:22; 14:21-22). But once Israel was scattered in judgment, the need for tongues was gone (Acts 2:17-21).[/highlight]

15. Bible tongues had a definite end. [highlight]They ended by 70 AD, forty years after they began, in perfect agreement with the prophecy about them (Micah 7:14-20; Acts 2:17-21; 7:36; Heb 9:10). God had prophesied the duration of this marvelous thing – forty years – and the climactic events ending it – the finished Bible and Israel's destruction! [/highlight]Give God the glory, and believe His prophecy!

Thats just not true. The Holy Spirit is the same and the Gifts of the Holy Spirit are still Gods to give, when, where and how He likes.

So the whole of the scriptures and the Very Spirit of God disagree with your opinion. Let God be true!

For they will teach another Jesus and another spirit!
Sounds like a different spirit to me?

 

[Agape]

Thats just not true. The Holy Spirit is the same and the Gifts of the Holy Spirit are still Gods to give, when, where and how He likes.

So the whole of the scriptures and the Very Spirit of God disagree with your opinion. Let God be true!

For they will teach another Jesus and another spirit!
Sounds like a different spirit to me?

I believe the gift of tongues was a sign gift that ceased and agree with most of Asyncritus' arguments. You sought more explanation as to why he said that sign gift was for the Jews, I gave that to you.

 

[reba]

Lets get back to polite discussion reba

 

[Mitspa]

I believe the gift of tongues was a sign gift that ceased and agree with most of Asyncritus' arguments. You sought more explanation as to why he said that sign gift was for the Jews, I gave that to you.

The Word of God has not changed, the Holy Spirit has not changed. The gifts of the Holy Spirit are the same as the Holy Spirit remains the same. Jesus is the same, the Holy Spirit is the same. Whoever asyncritus is? he means nothing to me.

Let God be true and every man..... you know? lol

So not sure why you think someone would change the truth of scripture and the Holy Spirit to listen to some man? That makes no sense to me?

 

[Asyncritus]

I still see no point as it relates to the gifts of God that are given by the Holy Spirit to all!

There is much written about the Holy Spirit and the gifts that are giving to believers. So again do not see any relation to the gifts being limited some way to jews or in relation to jews. For a jew is one inwardly! This truth is shown throught out scripture, and is plain and evident that the gifts are for all who receive the Holy Spirit. For there is no difference between Jew nor gentile but all are "in Christ" that believe.

Oh come on Mitspa.

Answer the questions. They're not difficult.

So what's it going to be? More avoidance?

 

[Mitspa]

The Word of God has not changed, the Holy Spirit has not changed. The gifts of the Holy Spirit are the same as the Holy Spirit remains the same. Jesus is the same, the Holy Spirit is the same. Whoever asyncritus is? he means nothing to me.

Let God be true and every man..... you know? lol

So not sure why you think someone would change the truth of scripture and the Holy Spirit to listen to some man? That makes no sense to me?

Ops I just figured out who asyncritus is! I thought It was like someone who wrote years ago or something? Forgive my mistake?

but my point is still the same. Jesus is still the same Jesus, the Holy Spirit is still the same Holy Spirit and the gifts are the same gifts. God will give them to whom He likes and when He likes.

 

[Mitspa]

Oh come on Mitspa.

Answer the questions. They're not difficult.

So what's it going to be? More avoidance?

be nice or Reba will slam us with the rod of iron! lol
I dont remember being ask anything? but I have made my points very clear, but maybe I missed the question? please ask me again.

 

[Asyncritus]

The Corinthian church was not a jewish church!

I've shown you a lot of evidence that it was. How can you gainsay that evidence?

Paul was sent to the gentiles , the fact that this was a gentile church was made over and over in scriptures.

Look it up, and you'll see that in every city he went FIRST to the synagogues. Corinth, as I showed you above, is a classic example of that.

It has no bearing at all upon the Work and gifts of the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is the same upon a jew and upon a gentile.The Holy Spirit we have today is that same Spirit poured out in Acts 2. The gifts differ according to the will of God.

Cornelius is the only non-Jew who received the HSp in the Acts, and even that was to witness to the Jewish brethren that the gospel had now gone to the Gentiles 'as well as us'.. The Ethiopian eunuch did not, and neither did the Philippian jailor.

Can you think of any other Gentile who did?

Who received the HSp in Acts 2? Answer, Jewish disciples.

Who did they witness to?

Answer: Acts 2. 5 ¶ And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven.

Where did they come from?

9 Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia,
10 Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes,
11 Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God.

What did they hear? Gibberish?

7 And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans?
8 And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?

So tongues were distinct languages, not gibberish, and allowed them to declare to the house of Jacob from all the named countries their sins in rejecting and murdering Jesus of Nazareth.

The churches/ecclesias were supposed to do the same with the gift of tongues, but 1 Cor 14 shows that they were being misused.

So how about trying to answer the questions on Jn 15,16?

 

[Asyncritus]

be nice or Reba will slam us with the rod of iron! lol
I dont remember being ask anything? but I have made my points very clear, but maybe I missed the question? please ask me again.

Let's not provoke Reba to use the rod of iron when her wrath is kindled but a little!

Here are the questions.( BTW, I am merely a humble Bible student, with a particular down on evolution and on careless exposition of scripture.)

The Questions:

Here's the text again. I'm sure you can see exactly what He is saying, if you give the matter some thought.

Jn 15: 26 ¶ But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:

27 And ye also shall bear witness, because ye have been with me from the beginning.

1 ¶ These things have I spoken unto you, that ye should not be offended.
2 They shall put you out of the synagogues: yea, the time cometh, that whosoever killeth you will think that he doeth God service.

From the above,

A. what it the HSp going to do, and

B. What are the disciples going to do and

C.What's going to happen to them as a result?

D. Who is going to do this to them?

Hope that helps.

 

[Mitspa]

I've shown you a lot of evidence that it was. How can you gainsay that evidence?



Look it up, and you'll see that in every city he went FIRST to the synagogues. Corinth, as I showed you above, is a classic example of that.



Cornelius is the only non-Jew who received the HSp in the Acts, and even that was to witness to the Jewish brethren that the gospel had now gone to the Gentiles 'as well as us'.. The Ethiopian eunuch did not, and neither did the Philippian jailor.

Can you think of any other Gentile who did?

Who received the HSp in Acts 2? Answer, Jewish disciples.

Who did they witness to?

Answer: Acts 2. 5 ¶ And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven.

Where did they come from?

9 Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia,
10 Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes,
11 Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God.

What did they hear? Gibberish?

7 And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans?
8 And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?

So tongues were distinct languages, not gibberish, and allowed them to declare to the house of Jacob from all the named countries their sins in rejecting and murdering Jesus of Nazareth.

The churches/ecclesias were supposed to do the same with the gift of tongues, but 1 Cor 14 shows that they were being misused.

So how about trying to answer the questions on Jn 15,16?

The fact that Corinth was a gentile church is not even worth a debate! It is clear that it was and that Paul was sent to the gentiles. Also it has no bearing whatsoever on the how the Holy Spirit works upon the believer! For there is NO DIFFERANCE! The gifts of the Holy Spirit are the gifts revealed thoughout scripture. The Holy Spirit has not changed. so what is there for me to answer? I do not accept any point you have made to have any weight at all in the discussion of this gift.

I do find that you refer to this gift that is given by God, as "gibberish" as a great insult to the Holy Spirit! I would bring some strong rebuke upon such a comment, but I know Reba is watching! lol

P.S. see how nice I am being Reba? lol

 

[reba]

P.S. see how nice I am being Reba? lol

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Some of you owe me an explanation.
If tongues are dead, then what is it I have?
Are you calling me a fake?!

 

[Deborah13]

Here's the text again. I'm sure you can see exactly what He is saying, if you give the matter some thought.

Jn 15: 26 ¶ But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:

27 And ye also shall bear witness, because ye have been with me from the beginning.

1 ¶ These things have I spoken unto you, that ye should not be offended.
2 They shall put you out of the synagogues: yea, the time cometh, that whosoever killeth you will think that he doeth God service.

From the above,

A. what it the HSp going to do, and

B. What are the disciples going to do and

C.What's going to happen to them as a result?

D. Who is going to do this to them?



No. It did the job Jesus said it was going to do. What job was that, do you think, from the above?

1. The Comforter would testify of Christ - as He does today, if He did not no one would be saved.
2. They would bear witness to this testimony - because they walk with Christ and could bear witness of Him
3. They would be turned out of the synagogues - as believers in Christ are today
4. LOL the nonbelieving Jews

Please explain how this is saying that the gifts are not for today.

I hear you saying that the Holy Spirit is not for today????, because none of this scripture is refering to the gifts. Please explain.

I have never heard a believer refer to the Holy Spirit as an It?? Is this just a slip?

 

[Asyncritus]

The fact that Corinth was a gentile church is not even worth a debate! It is clear that it was and that Paul was sent to the gentiles. Also it has no bearing whatsoever on the how the Holy Spirit works upon the believer! For there is NO DIFFERANCE! The gifts of the Holy Spirit are the gifts revealed thoughout scripture. The Holy Spirit has not changed. so what is there for me to answer? I do not accept any point you have made to have any weight at all in the discussion of this gift.

You are doing a lot of arm-waving, Mitspa. I have presented a carefully reasoned set of reasons which show very clearly that Corinth was a jewish ecclesia with Gentiles in it.

You happily wave your arm, and say the point is not worthy of debate! What do you think of the points raised?

The HSp has not changed, that's for sure. But I'm not certain that is relevant to this discussion. Why would you think it might be?

I do find that you refer to this gift that is given by God, as "gibberish" as a great insult to the Holy Spirit! I would bring some strong rebuke upon such a comment, but I know Reba is watching! lol

I don't think the gift of tongues was gibberish. I made it plain that they were distinct languages, recognised by at least 16 nations gathered there at Pentecost.

Where do you see believers gathered in tents and marquees and churches receiving the gifts of the HSp in the Acts after much singing, dancing and emotional winding up etc etc?

I don't see any such thing - but I do see the Lord out in the open healing multitudes. I see Peter and Paul doing marvellous things in public.

If the gifts were really available today, I would expect to see the holders of the powers in the hospitals, out in the streets of the poor countries, healing the sick and feeding the multitudes who are starving, and preaching the gospel as they go.

Where are they?

Arguing about whether they are really speaking in tongues or not!

Don't you think that's just a little bit odd?

P.S. see how nice I am being Reba? lol

Leave her alone. She's a nice lady and doesn't deserve the hassle she has to deal with sometimes!

 

[Asyncritus]

Some of you owe me an explanation.
If tongues are dead, then what is it I have?
Are you calling me a fake?!

Can you give me a bit more detail about what it is you have? The how, when where etc.

And can you let me know how much witnessing to the Jews you've done with the gift you have?

Thanks.

 

[Deborah13]

Can you give me a bit more detail about what it is you have? The how, when where etc.

And can you let me know how much witnessing to the Jews you've done with the gift you have?

Thanks.

It is my understanding from scripture that there is no difference between Jew and Gentile believers so....why would there be a difference between Jew and Gentile UNbelievers?

 

[AirDancer]

The gifts from the Holy Spirit did not and still do not have expiration dates on them.

Some Christians are gifted with tongues; some are not.

Some Christians are gifted with the ability to interpret; some are not.

Some Christians are gifted with tongues and the ability to interpret.

 

[Asyncritus]

1. The Comforter would testify of Christ - as He does today, if He did not no one would be saved.

What do you think this meant? The disciples were already disciples - and had not received any spirit gifts. Jesus says the comforter would testify/witness of Him.

So receiving the spirit gifts was not a pre-condition of discipleship. It still isn't.

2. They would bear witness to this testimony - because they walk with Christ and could bear witness of Him

Correct. You notice it is THEY who walked with Him, and could testify of what they had seen and done. Not us.

3. They would be turned out of the synagogues - as believers in Christ are today

You left out something important. They, the disciples would be killed for their service to Christ. Where do the Jews do that today?

4. LOL the nonbelieving Jews

Why are you laughing? The unbelieving Jews would do all this, because of the witnessing of the disciples, empowered by rhe Holy Spirit. Exactly as happened in the Acts.

Please explain how this is saying that the gifts are not for today.

I hear you saying that the Holy Spirit is not for today????, because none of this scripture is refering to the gifts. Please explain.

It's very simple Deborah. The gifts of the Holy Spirit were specifically given to empower those who were to witness to the Jews, as you've recognised in 4 above.

That witness ceased in AD70 when the Jews were no longer a nation in their land.

I have never heard a believer refer to the Holy Spirit as an It?? Is this just a slip?

Go here for some of the reasons: http://www.truthortradition.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=800

 

[Asyncritus]

It is my understanding from scripture that there is no difference between Jew and Gentile believers so....why would there be a difference between Jew and Gentile UNbelievers?

Can you clarify this, as I don't get the question.

Thx.