1 Corinthians 14:18

[Rollo Tamasi]

Can you give me a bit more detail about what it is you have? The how, when where etc.

And can you let me know how much witnessing to the Jews you've done with the gift you have?

Thanks.

At a church service, I went forward and was prayed over. Nothing happened.
But that night my wife woke up in the middle of the night and I was speaking in tongues.
I was sound asleep.
But from that time on I have been able to speak in tongues.
With that came a powerful desire to pray and if was very easy to do so.
I've been involved heavily in prayer ministries ever since.
Also, God gave me wisdom to understand his word.
I had a lot of knowledge but never realized how much was going over my head.

I am a member of Jews for Jesus and have been witnessing to Jews for almost 28 years now.
I have seen some come to Jesus.

I can't remember ever witnessing to a Jew where I ever mentioned speaking in tongues.

 

[Asyncritus]

The gifts from the Holy Spirit did not and still do not have expiration dates on them.

Some Christians are gifted with tongues; some are not.

Some Christians are gifted with the ability to interpret; some are not.

Some Christians are gifted with tongues and the ability to interpret.

Um, what about healing, prophesying, raising the dead, feeding multitudes and the other important things?

Is God's arm shortened that they can't do these things?

 

[AirDancer]

All of the gifts of the Holy Spirit are still granted. And they are all important gifts. That's why I stated that the gifts did not and do not have expiration dates on them.

Not everyone receives all the gifts. We each may have any combination of them, or we may only have one gift for starters. The gift of tongues is just one of the gifts of the Holy Spirit.

 

[Deborah13]

What do you think this meant? The disciples were already disciples - and had not received any spirit gifts. Jesus says the comforter would testify/witness of Him.

So receiving the spirit gifts was not a pre-condition of discipleship. It still isn't.
Correct. You notice it is THEY who walked with Him, and could testify of what they had seen and done. Not us.
You left out something important. They, the disciples would be killed for their service to Christ. Where do the Jews do that today?
Why are you laughing? The unbelieving Jews would do all this, because of the witnessing of the disciples, empowered by rhe Holy Spirit. Exactly as happened in the Acts.

It's very simple Deborah. The gifts of the Holy Spirit were specifically given to empower those who were to witness to the Jews, as you've recognised in 4 above.

That witness ceased in AD70 when the Jews were no longer a nation in their land.

Go here for some of the reasons: http://www.truthortradition.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=800[/QUOTE
The disciples were already disciples of Christ but they had not received the Comforter yet because Christ had not died yet. And this scripture in John 15-16 is not talking about the Gifts of the Holy Spirit but the gift of the Holy Spirit, the Comforter.
yes there are still people being killed because they are Christians witnessing for Christ bringing the Gospel to other nations.
Yes they could testify to what they had seen as eye witnesses. We testify as well to what they saw and witnessed.
On number 4 I LOLed because it was just such a silly question as I don't think anyone other than Jews were in the synagogues. (Sorry, I hang out a lot with my 7 yr old grandson and he laughs at questions that the answer is so obvious, I know you were trying to make a point, I do apologize.)

I took a look at your link. I see that they espouse that the correct grammar would be to refer to the Holy Spirit as the nature of God thus "IT" holy spirit not capitalized.
I am not a trained person in Greek grammar but I tend to think that the pronoun It would be refering to the 'gift' of not the Holy Spirit Himself.
Much as I might say, "I have a gift for you and it is a surprise." The gift turns out to be a puppy which most assuredly has a gender and is alive.
Off the top of my head I think of the Holy Spirit moaning and groaning and can be grieved. Not an it, a He.

 

[Deborah13]

Can you clarify this, as I don't get the question.

Thx.

The scriptures stated there is no Jew or Gentile believers they are all the same. A believer is a believer.

I do not see in 1 Corinthians 14 were the unbeliever is defined as a Jew it simply says unbeliever and unlearned. Thus they may be Jew or Gentile.

 

[Mitspa]

You are doing a lot of arm-waving, Mitspa. I have presented a carefully reasoned set of reasons which show very clearly that Corinth was a jewish ecclesia with Gentiles in it.

You happily wave your arm, and say the point is not worthy of debate! What do you think of the points raised?

The HSp has not changed, that's for sure. But I'm not certain that is relevant to this discussion. Why would you think it might be?

I don't think the gift of tongues was gibberish. I made it plain that they were distinct languages, recognised by at least 16 nations gathered there at Pentecost.


I don't see any such thing - but I do see the Lord out in the open healing multitudes. I see Peter and Paul doing marvellous things in public.

If the gifts were really available today, I would expect to see the holders of the powers in the hospitals, out in the streets of the poor countries, healing the sick and feeding the multitudes who are starving, and preaching the gospel as they go.

Where are they?

I know plenty of these people! I am one!

But I do not cast my pearls.

So again you have made no point but only seem to insult and cast doubt upon this wonderful gift of God. Maybe you should ask why this gift of the Holy Spirit seems to offend you so much?

You say the Holy Spirit has not changed? so who are you to decide when and how the Holy Spirit gives the gifts that the scriptures are clear that the Holy spirit gives? Acts 2 is not all that is written about this gift! Paul wrote much to the GENTILE church in Cor.

For if I will pray in the spirit and I will pray in my understanding also. I pray in tongues more than you all.

So your points fall very short in a biblical discussion of this gift.

 

[Mitspa]

So basically according to somes doctrine, All of the Cor. letters are not really for "believers" but only for jewish believers, as well as much of the rest of the New testament?

Guess who decides what part of the epistles are for all and what part are only for the jews? These same folks who teach these doctrines!

According to their doctrine we have no bible nor the Holy Spirit nor any promises from God.

Boy! I sure would like to bring a rod of correction upon this sort of thing but I have turned over a new leaf! Reba has put the fear of God in my heart! lol

 

[eddif]

As we discuss the behavior of men this all gets interesting.

Romans 7:25
25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

Paul was speaking, but let us try the concept on Peter.

Peter-Lord I would never deny you. OOPS three times before the rooster crowed
Mind said one thing flesh did another

Peter is given a vision and sent to the Gentiles. OOPS drops felowship with Gentiles because of his Jewish brothers
Mind said one thing flesh did another

The one thing we see is the indwelling of Holy Spirit in both Paul and Peter.
Peter repented. Paul describes his wretched state (repentance)

Paul and Peter did miracles, taught--- so at least demonstrated 2 gifts in each person. And, i think--maybe-- spoke in tongues.

Today we can have Holy Spirit inside us. He stands at the door and knocks to get in (Jesus - Holy Spirit in heart and mind--Just where and how i will leave open for now)

So if I have Holy Spirit inside can I mess up in the outer man? Yes. Great screams from some. Oh Well.... Peter served God in the spirit of his mind. Paul served God in the spirit of his mind. I or any of us can have Holy Spirit inside us. We should seek higher gifts, but evidently we might not do with the flesh what the potential is in our inner spirit. Some Church tradition tears up what I am saying. What lesson do you get from NT behavior and scripture?

Maybe a trip to look at OT David might help on some level. In his heart he loved God. With his carnal mind he was not always so great (the veil to the inner spirit was not torn till Jesus offered himself up for sins).

We can not judge before the day. We can receive a lot. We may not produce in our flesh all our renewed mind would do. Of course Christ in us may produce works our flesh can not.

I think this is all a little more complicated than we think. Not so complicated a youth could not understand, but a little more complicated than one on milk can see.

May we grow up to the fullness He expects.

eddif

 

[Mitspa]

At a church service, I went forward and was prayed over. Nothing happened.
But that night my wife woke up in the middle of the night and I was speaking in tongues.
I was sound asleep.
But from that time on I have been able to speak in tongues.
With that came a powerful desire to pray and if was very easy to do so.
I've been involved heavily in prayer ministries ever since.
Also, God gave me wisdom to understand his word.
I had a lot of knowledge but never realized how much was going over my head.

I am a member of Jews for Jesus and have been witnessing to Jews for almost 28 years now.
I have seen some come to Jesus.

I can't remember ever witnessing to a Jew where I ever mentioned speaking in tongues.

Glory to God! I think I will look you up the next time this issue comes up on a thread!
Powerful testimony, hard to defeat the truth!

 

[felix]

Ok, so I was reading 1 Corinthians 14 the other day. So I'm reading about tongues, and about how Paul wants them to all speak in tongues, but would rather then prophecy so they may build up each other etc etc. Fair enough.

But this is the part I don't get - after going on about that, in verse 18, Paul then says this: (ESV)

I thank God that I speak in tongues more than all of you. ​

To me, it seems a bit contradictory and a tad out of place in the context of the rest of the section.

Am I missing something here?

(1 Corinthians 14:18) I thank my God I speak with tongues more than you all;
(1 Corinthians 14:19) yet in the church I would rather speak five words with my understanding, that I may teach others also, than ten thousand words in a tongue.

Paul simply says, he is multilingual.

 

[eddif]

Glory to God! I think I will look you up the next time this issue comes up on a thread!
Powerful testimony, hard to defeat the truth!

At a church service, I went forward and was prayed over. Nothing happened.
But that night my wife woke up in the middle of the night and I was speaking in tongues.
I was sound asleep.
But from that time on I have been able to speak in tongues.
With that came a powerful desire to pray and if was very easy to do so.
I've been involved heavily in prayer ministries ever since.
Also, God gave me wisdom to understand his word.
I had a lot of knowledge but never realized how much was going over my head.

I am a member of Jews for Jesus and have been witnessing to Jews for almost 28 years now.
I have seen some come to Jesus.

I can't remember ever witnessing to a Jew where I ever mentioned speaking in tongues.

What is this testimony time?
I wound up beginning to speak in tongues sitting by the side of a bathtub, in front of a heater, after a bath. I was reading the Bible at the time. I did not really know about tongues at the time; though in hindsight I do think I was reading Corinthians, Appears that my inner spirit got past my carnal mind. I did have a fanatic grandmother (who I was told not to believe) that was evidently on her prayer knees enough to get this done.

Change of life? Before unable to tell of what Jesus did----Afterward unable to shut up about what Jesus did.

Baptised in John's baptism at 12 (repented of sins)
Baptised in Jesuus (realized Jesus died for my sins at 26 or so)
Baptised in the Holy Spirit at 27 or so (empowered to be a wittness)

I did not realize some people memorized dates.

Some say I have a teachers anointing ( I will leave that up to others to hang handles on me).

I stayed mad all the time before the Holy Spirit (hunted things to be mad about). Afterwards I got mad one day and found out how my body acted when I got mad (felt flushing and blood pressure reaction--for first time). I never knew anything about anger till after Holy Spirit moved in. Holy Spirit showed me who I was in the flesh at the same time showing me what could happen in my spirit. Was I perfect or even now perfect? No. I do strive toward the high calling which is in Christ Jesus.

It is about God and not about us.

eddif

 

[Asyncritus]

At a church service, I went forward and was prayed over. Nothing happened.
But that night my wife woke up in the middle of the night and I was speaking in tongues.
I was sound asleep.
But from that time on I have been able to speak in tongues.
With that came a powerful desire to pray and if was very easy to do so.
I've been involved heavily in prayer ministries ever since.
Also, God gave me wisdom to understand his word.
I had a lot of knowledge but never realized how much was going over my head.

I am a member of Jews for Jesus and have been witnessing to Jews for almost 28 years now.
I have seen some come to Jesus.

I can't remember ever witnessing to a Jew where I ever mentioned speaking in tongues.

Allenwynne

I have no wish whatsoever to upset or derail your faith. If that is your opinion, then so be it.

All I can do is point out what I see the scriptures saying pretty clearly, and leave it at that. You then choose which road you will go down.

I also point out what I see are grave inconsistencies between the facts and the ideas held by many churches, such as the scriptural facts that cures and feeding of the multitudes and raising of the dead were the real effects of really possessing the gifts of the spirit.

I see nothing of this in the churches.

Furthermore, I see that almost every church I can think of, claims that the HSp is guiding the leadership. Think for instance of the catholic pope, the anglican archbishop, the jehovah's witnesses, the seventh day adventists, the pentecostals, the evangelicals and all else.

Every one of them teaches materially different doctrines to the other: and quite seriously different doctrines at that, but this is not the place to go into those just now.

They can't all be right. They can't all be guided by the same HSp. God is decidedly not the author of confusion.

So where does that leave little me?

With my inflexible rule: only scripture and its very clear guidance will do for me. As Isaiah said so long ago:

Isa 8. 20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

Which is why I react very vigorously (and sometimes unpleasantly) to any suggestion or implication that the Bible is NOT the Word of God, and must take precedence over all experiences.

If my behaviour or belief does not square with the Word, then too bad for my behaviour and my belief. I can tell you now that many of my beautiful theories have been shot down by an ugly scriptural fact, and have never seen the light of day.

I'm still working on my behavioural anomalies.

On the other hand, scripture, which I follow docilely wherever it may lead, has shown me many things I had not dreamed of, such as this one which tells me that the gifts of the spirit were given as a witness to the Jews.

That is not to say that the Gentiles did not benefit occasionally. Cornelius is an outstanding example, but I wish to point out that this was done as a testimony to the Jews that the Gentiles had also received the word of God - you know the passage.

So that's where I stand on the matter.

Isa.8.20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

 

[eddif]

I Corinthians 14:26
26 How is it then, brethren? when ye come together, every one of you hath a psalm, hath a doctrine, hath a tongue, hath a revelation, hath an interpretation. Let all things be done unto edifying.

Kind of interesting as some of us folks get together on this subject.

eddif

 

[Mitspa]

(1 Corinthians 14:18) I thank my God I speak with tongues more than you all;
(1 Corinthians 14:19) yet in the church I would rather speak five words with my understanding, that I may teach others also, than ten thousand words in a tongue.

Paul simply says, he is multilingual.

Do you mean he spoke with the tongues of men and of angels? lol

I will pray in the Spirit and I will pray in my understanding also.

I think one must reject a whole lot of scripture to think that is what Paul is saying!

I think some who do not have this gift, are so determined to reject its witness, that they will ignore clear and evident scripture? Why this is, i do not understand?

For they can be very honest about the truth of scripture in general but have such a hard time getting their mind to accept this gift.

If one leaves out the counsel of 1 Cor. we see in Acts 2 that some heard those who spoke in tongues, as in their own native language. But others whos heart was not right, thought they were drunk.
So the gift is not just about God Speaking, its also about being able to hear!

To him who has ears to hear!

 

[Mitspa]

Do you mean he spoke with the tongues of men and of angels? lol

I will pray in the Spirit and I will pray in my understanding also.

I think one must reject a whole lot of scripture to think that is what Paul is saying!

I think some who do not have this gift, are so determined to reject its witness, that they will ignore clear and evident scripture? Why this is, i do not understand?

For they can be very honest about the truth of scripture in general but have such a hard time getting their mind to accept this gift.

If one leaves out the counsel of 1 Cor. we see in Acts 2 that some heard those who spoke in tongues, as in their own native language. But others whos heart was not right, thought they were drunk.
So the gift is not just about God Speaking, its also about being able to hear!

To him who has ears to hear!

Just another thought about the recent post? so Paul is all his instruction about tongues, was really just saying when you go to a group of jews dont speak 10,000 words in Greek, but 5 words in Hebrew?

Does that make any biblical sense? NO!

 

[felix]

Do you mean he spoke with the tongues of men and of angels? lol

I will pray in the Spirit and I will pray in my understanding also.

I think one must reject a whole lot of scripture to think that is what Paul is saying!

I think some who do not have this gift, are so determined to reject its witness, that they will ignore clear and evident scripture? Why this is, i do not understand?

For they can be very honest about the truth of scripture in general but have such a hard time getting their mind to accept this gift.

If one leaves out the counsel of 1 Cor. we see in Acts 2 that some heard those who spoke in tongues, as in their own native language. But others whos heart was not right, thought they were drunk.
So the gift is not just about God Speaking, its also about being able to hear!

To him who has ears to hear!

(1 Corinthians 14:18) I thank my God I speak with tongues more than you all;
(1 Corinthians 14:19) yet in the church I would rather speak five words with my understanding, that I may teach others also, than ten thousand words in a tongue.

Verse 19 actually says the fact that Paul is speaking about his multilingual because, he explains that he may teach others also. It is ridiculous to believe that he can teach tongues to others, while Paul Himself says it is a gift of Holy Spirit.

Hence, 1 Corinthians 14:18 is simply about Paul's multilingualism.

Also, tongue simply means a language as in Revelation 14:6.

 

[felix]

Just another thought about the recent post? so Paul is all his instruction about tongues, was really just saying when you go to a group of jews dont speak 10,000 words in Greek, but 5 words in Hebrew?

Does that make any biblical sense? NO!

Actually, it makes perfect sense for Paul to teach 5 words in Hebrew to a bunch of Greeks as the verse 19 suggests.

 

[eddif]

John 14: 12
12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.

A previous post talked about the flesh part of the man. Now let me mention the spirit of the mind part of man.

God decides every once in a time to use someone less than perfect in life -- to listen to God against their human will. Jonah did not want to do what God wanted and go to Ninevah. Paul kicked against the goads of God and wound up on missionary journeys.

Peter walked down the street and his shadow caused great works of the Spirit. In the natural I would not vote for Peter to do great works. His flesh messed up all the time, but God, through his Spirit used him in a mighty way.

Paul got up from near death and went back to work in the Kingdom. Told of what would happen in a storm, great miracles were done by him. We are talking about a fellow who was against the Church.

I once was so judgemental about church members. I am sure that because of my great judgement I do not think I am as bad today. Knowing who I was, I try and give everyone a chance. In one sense I fall right in the "put christians in prision kind of action". Not a physical prison, but a judgemental prison. I have folks that still have scars from bible verses I hurled at them.

I fit right in this discussion at times. Hit the road Jack and don't you come back no more.... would be my theme song, but because of my lack of tolerance then; I now am at work doing something strange and foreign to me.

He works in us to will and to do of his good pleasure. Not our carnal will, but a will far greater than ours.

With the flesh the law of sin and death
With the mind the law of Christ;

Gravity tries to sink the ship
Bouyancy tries to push the ship out of the water

Gravity tries to keep a bird on the ground
Aerodynamic primciples let the eagle soar (in a spirit type world of air)

Sin tries to destroy us
Redemption in Christ Jesus lifts our minds


the jerk from Mississippi
eddif

 

[Asyncritus]

Do you mean he spoke with the tongues of men and of angels? lol

The tongues of angels are the tongues of men. I defy anyone to find me an angel speaking in any other language besides that of men.

I will pray in the Spirit and I will pray in my understanding also.

That's an interesting point: what does praying in the spirit mean?

I think one must reject a whole lot of scripture to think that is what Paul is saying!

Or ignore it!

I think some who do not have this gift, are so determined to reject its witness, that they will ignore clear and evident scripture? Why this is, i do not understand?

Answer some of my points above if you please - especially the one about the different church leaderships.

If one leaves out the counsel of 1 Cor. we see in Acts 2 that some heard those who spoke in tongues, as in their own native language. But others whos heart was not right, thought they were drunk.
So the gift is not just about God Speaking, its also about being able to hear!

To him who has ears to hear!

You 're not answering any of the very important points I raised.

Please get serious.

Thank you.

 

[eddif]

I Corinthians 14:18-19
18 I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all:
19 Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue.


I have heard this unknown tongue thing for years, and I thought ok, yeah, right.

But​

If Paul knows he can speak something he does not understand; what language is he speaking that he does not understand and what is the source?

At the same time​

Paul knows he must speak the language of the people before him.​

So​

How would Paul with this great vast language reserve wind up not knowing what he was saying?​

Thus​

Daniel intrepreting the words on the wall sure seems to fit here. Not a carnal explanation, but a supernatural explanation.

Away from church he speaks in tongues and is edified
In church he speaks with the understanding for others sake.

If he intreprets his tongues and understands then he can go before the church and relate what he learns in private.

Then as a jerk from Mississippi I do not know the rules of logic and must be just not understanding .​

eddif​