1 Corinthians 8:6 and The Holy Trinity

[Runningman]

John 15:26, is a very good example showing the clear distinction between the Persons, the Father, Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit:

"When the Helper comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth Who comes from the Father, He will testify about Me"

Here we have Jesus Christ speaking in the first-person. He says that He will send the Holy Spirit, "Who Comes from the Father". "from" is the Greek preposition, "para", which is "from the side of", showing that the Holy Spirit is distinct FROM God the Father. Three distinct Persons, Jesus the SENDER, the Holy Spirit Coming FROM THE SIDE OF the Father.

Even though the word "Spirit", is neuter in the Greek, "pneûma", which is purely grammatical, and does not mean the Holy Spirit is "a thing". Jesus does not say "He" here, using the neuter "ekeino", which would agree with the neuter "pneûma". Instead Jesus says, "ekeinos", which is masculine, and used to show a "Person".

In chapter 14, Jesus says of the Holy Spirit;

"16 I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Helper, so that He may be with you forever; 17 the Helper is the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it does not see Him or know Him; but you know Him because He remains with you and will be in you"

Some important points here. Jesus says that the Holy Spirit is "ANOTHER Helper", and uses the Greek adjective, "állos", which means, "One like Myself", and not, "heteron", "different to Himself". The Holy Spirit is ANOTHER PERSON Who is LIKE Jesus Christ. Even "Helper" is in the Greek, "ho paraklētos", in the masculine. The oldest Greek manuscript, the Papyri known as P66 (P. Bodmer II), which has been dated between AD 100-200, has in verse 17, "autón", which is masculine, "HIM", three times. Someone at a later date, has tried to erase the "n" at the send, so that it reads "autó", which is neuter! In John 16:7, Jesus says of the Holy Spirit, "I will send Him to you", where "HIM" is "autón", and not "autó". In verse 18, again we have the masculine "ekeinos" (HE) for the Holy Spirit. The language used by Jesus for the Holy Spirit is very important, as it shows that the Holy Spirit is a PERSON, Who is LIKE Himself, and not "a thing", as some blasphemously teach!

No doubt all of the evidence in the Bible shows, that the Holy Spirit is a Person, Who is LIKE Jesus Christ, and DISTINCT from Himself and the Father, and that the Spirit is also GOD, as the Father and Jesus Christ is.

When the Holy Spirit is referred to in the neuter then the writer is referring to an it. God isn't an it. In the case that the Holy Spirit is a He then that's a reference to God since God is a He. As I originally said, the Holy Spirit is either God or a gift or anointing depending on the grammar and context.

John 14:17 in the New American Bible and A Faithful Version call the "Spirit of Truth" an it for this reason:

New American Bible​

the Spirit of truth, which the world cannot accept, because it neither sees nor knows it. But you know it, because it remains with you, and will be in you.​

​

A Faithful Version​

Even the Spirit of the truth, which the world cannot receive because it perceives it not, nor knows it; but you know it because it dwells with you, and shall be within you.​

Most of the Bibles are translated under the assumption that the Holy Spirit is a "he" in every context, but as you helped me prove in your post that simply isn't the case. When the "helper" or "comforter" is paired with personal pronouns like "he" then it's just a translation bias.

You can look a bit more into the remote context, beginning with Acts 1:4, where Jesus said the gift they would receive is a Holy Spirit baptism. God Himself isn't a gift we receive, but the anointing or gifts He gives are things we receive.

This is also in the case of Jesus himself who didn't receive his Holy Spirit anointing until John's water baptism.

Acts 10​

37You yourselves know what has happened throughout Judea, beginning in Galilee with the baptism that John proclaimed: 38how God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and with power, and how Jesus went around doing good and healing all who were oppressed by the devil, because God was with Him.​

 

[Free]

When the Holy Spirit is referred to in the neuter then the writer is referring to an it. God isn't an it. In the case that the Holy Spirit is a He then that's a reference to God since God is a He.

This is all fallaciously begging the question. You’re assuming that the Holy Spirit is referred to as neuter in certain verses, you’re assuming that the Holy Spirit refers to different things in different contexts, and you’re also assuming that God is unitarian.

As I originally said, the Holy Spirit is either God or a gift or anointing depending on the grammar and context.

John 14:17 in the New American Bible and A Faithful Version call the "Spirit of Truth" an it for this reason:

New American Bible​

the Spirit of truth, which the world cannot accept, because it neither sees nor knows it. But you know it, because it remains with you, and will be in you.​

​

A Faithful Version​

Even the Spirit of the truth, which the world cannot receive because it perceives it not, nor knows it; but you know it because it dwells with you, and shall be within you.​

Context matters, correct? Let’s look at the preceding verse:

Jhn 14:16 And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Helper, to be with you forever, (ESV)

“Another parakletos,” means another Advocate, Counsellor, Comforter, and Helper like Jesus. Why another? Because Jesus is also called a parakletos, and by John:

1Jn 2:1 My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate [parakletos] with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. (ESV)

Why another parakletos? Because Jesus was going to return to the Father and his followers still needed much help. Advocacy, Comforting, Counselling, and Helping are actions of personal agency only. The Holy Spirit can only be a he.

So, the context of John 14:17, namely verse 16, shows that the Holy Spirit cannot be referred to as “it.”

Additionally, since both the Father and the Som send the Holy Spirit, the Father cannot be the other Helper Jesus mentioned. So reason dictates that the Holy Spirit cannot be the Father.

Most of the Bibles are translated under the assumption that the Holy Spirit is a "he" in every context, but as you helped me prove in your post that simply isn't the case. When the "helper" or "comforter" is paired with personal pronouns like "he" then it's just a translation bias.

Or, he is actually correct and the bias is against the personhood of the Holy Spirit. The assumption would be that the Holy Spirit is an “it,” since all the evidence points to the Holy Spirit being a he.

You can look a bit more into the remote context, beginning with Acts 1:4, where Jesus said the gift they would receive is a Holy Spirit baptism. God Himself isn't a gift we receive, but the anointing or gifts He gives are things we receive.

Yet, Jesus said he was in the Father and the Father was in him and they would both come and make their home in believers. And, as I pointed out above, Jesus also said both he and the Father would send the Holy Spirit to indwell believes. That’s three different persons that indwell believers. The Holy Spirit is a divine person who also gives gifts:

1Co 12:11 All these are empowered by one and the same Spirit, who apportions to each one individually as he wills. (ESV)

Can an anointing will and choose whom to give spiritual gifts to?

This is also in the case of Jesus himself who didn't receive his Holy Spirit anointing until John's water baptism.

Acts 10​

37You yourselves know what has happened throughout Judea, beginning in Galilee with the baptism that John proclaimed: 38how God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and with power, and how Jesus went around doing good and healing all who were oppressed by the devil, because God was with Him.​

Do you really think a mere anointing can be blasphemed and that blaspheming that anointing is worse than blaspheming Jesus? Can you lie to an anointing? Can an anointing take things from Jesus and speak and declare and teach and know?

To sum, there is no reason to believe the Holy Spirit is an “it” sometimes and a “he” other times. There is every reason to believe the Holy Spirit is always he and never the Father.

 

[SolaScriptura]

When the Holy Spirit is referred to in the neuter then the writer is referring to an it. God isn't an it. In the case that the Holy Spirit is a He then that's a reference to God since God is a He. As I originally said, the Holy Spirit is either God or a gift or anointing depending on the grammar and context.

John 14:17 in the New American Bible and A Faithful Version call the "Spirit of Truth" an it for this reason:

New American Bible​

the Spirit of truth, which the world cannot accept, because it neither sees nor knows it. But you know it, because it remains with you, and will be in you.​

​

A Faithful Version​

Even the Spirit of the truth, which the world cannot receive because it perceives it not, nor knows it; but you know it because it dwells with you, and shall be within you.​

Most of the Bibles are translated under the assumption that the Holy Spirit is a "he" in every context, but as you helped me prove in your post that simply isn't the case. When the "helper" or "comforter" is paired with personal pronouns like "he" then it's just a translation bias.

You can look a bit more into the remote context, beginning with Acts 1:4, where Jesus said the gift they would receive is a Holy Spirit baptism. God Himself isn't a gift we receive, but the anointing or gifts He gives are things we receive.

This is also in the case of Jesus himself who didn't receive his Holy Spirit anointing until John's water baptism.

Acts 10​

37You yourselves know what has happened throughout Judea, beginning in Galilee with the baptism that John proclaimed: 38how God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and with power, and how Jesus went around doing good and healing all who were oppressed by the devil, because God was with Him.​

you have ignored everything I have said on the Greek grammar! Your reasoning is useless because it is biased by your thinking and not based on the facts of what the Bible actually says.

Try again

 

[Runningman]

you have ignored everything I have said on the Greek grammar! Your reasoning is useless because it is biased by your thinking and not based on the facts of what the Bible actually says.

Try again

I provided you to correct Greek grammar. Bottom line is God is a He and not referred to in the neuter.

 

[SolaScriptura]

I provided you to correct Greek grammar. Bottom line is God is a He and not referred to in the neuter.

You show that you no nothing about Greek grammar!

 

[GodsGrace]

You show that you no nothing about Greek grammar!

I don't believe the other member is interested in Greek grammar.

 

[Free]

I provided you to correct Greek grammar. Bottom line is God is a He and not referred to in the neuter.

Where did you provide the correct Greek grammar?

 

[GodsGrace]

Where did you provide the correct Greek grammar?

It just occurred to me that we say that God is Spirit but He IS also a Person.

Can we say that God is Spirit with "human" qualities?
Or, at least, qualities He passed on to us?
(besides qualities only God can possess).

 

[Free]

The Spirit that Jesus sends He receives from the Father.

Where does Jesus say that he receives the Spirit from the Father?

Jesus speaks of that Spirit as another while the Father does not even though it's sent by His stated promise in Jesus's name.

Jesus speaks of the Holy Spirit as another parakletos, not another Spirit. And, again, the Father only speaks at Jesus's baptism and at his transfiguration. He speaks about his Son, not the Holy Spirit. Also, again, Jesus says the Father will send the Spirit but he says he will send the Spirit.

The Spirit doesn't put on different hats as in changing names. It is the Spirit of the only true God the Father who is the source of all things.

It has nothing to do with putting on different hats, but the Holy Spirit is clearly called the Spirit of Christ, the Spirit of Jesus Christ, and the Spirit of his Son. Whether those names or the Spirit of God or Spirit of your Father, the NT writers simply used different names to refer to the only Holy Spirit.

Its clear that in a believer the Spirit can convey the will and presence of Christ. It is the Fathers Spirit so our relationship/fellowship is with the Father and Son.

It is the Holy Spirit, distinct and always kept distinct from the Father.

As in from the Father through the Son.

I do hold to this.
yet for us there is

one God, the Father,
from whom all things are and for whom we exist,
and one Lord, Jesus Christ,
through whom all things are and through whom we exist.

Except that the logic precludes your beliefs about the Son. If all things came through the Son, then it necessarily follows that he is eternal and every bit God in the same way as the Father. It simply cannot be otherwise.

Which is easier to say the Holy Spirit or the Spirit of your Father? There is no distinct person called God the Spirit.

I have given many verses that have shown this to be the case but they have gone unaddressed.

There is only one true Deity the Father.

The one true deity is the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. That is what the totality of the biblical revelation gives us.

It is His Deity without limit that lives in Jesus. Col 1:19 And I tell you whether you believe it or not this is what the Spirit made known to me in regard to Col 1:19 "From the will of another" and He speaks only what He hears not on His own.
If Christ in you is a new creation, then Gods Deity that was pleased to dwell in Jesus qualifies as a Creation of the Father. Even setting aside Jesus's own spirit as the one its dwelling IN. The firstborn of all creation as in one who is born before all things. A Son of the Father.
Rev 3:14 - The beginning of the creation of God

Matt 10:16-20
I am sending you out like sheep among wolves. Therefore be as shrewd as snakes and as innocent as doves. 17Be on your guard; you will be handed over to the local councils and be flogged in the synagogues. 18On my account you will be brought before governors and kings as witnesses to them and to the Gentiles. 19But when they arrest you, do not worry about what to say or how to say it. At that time you will be given what to say, 20for it will not be you speaking, but the Spirit of your Father speaking through you.

I hold to this as stated
Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.

You hold to that particular statement but ignore the other statements I have provided. You seem to be picking and choosing which verses to believe.

God is Spirit and the Father is the only true God.

The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are the true God.

Who alone states "My Spirit" in regard to that Spirit.

Where does the Father himself say this?

He has His own Spirit.
I'm not sure why you think there is a need for a coeternal being to be exalted and be given authority.

There is no need; it's simply what the Bible shows. We have to be faithful to the truth of Scripture.

Acts 5:31
Jesus is my Lord to the glory of God the Father.
God exalted him to his own right hand as Prince and Savior that he might bring Israel to repentance and forgive their sins.

Philippians 2:9-11​

New International Version​

9 Therefore God exalted him to the highest place
and gave him the name that is above every name,
10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,
in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
11 and every tongue acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord,
to the glory of God the Father.

Grace and peace to you from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

What do you think think this says? Why do you not include verses 5-8? You cannot fully understand verses 9-11 if you leave out what comes before.

 

[Free]

It just occurred to me that we say that God is Spirit but He IS also a Person.

We shouldn't be saying that God is a Person. That would be a unitarian view of God. God is spirit and he is a Being that subsists as three coequal, coeternal, consubstantial Persons (trinitarian).

Can we say that God is Spirit with "human" qualities?
Or, at least, qualities He passed on to us?
(besides qualities only God can possess).

God has incommunicable attributes, which he alone has, and communicable ones, which he has shared with us by being made in his image. We use the term "person" only because it is the closest we can get to understanding the persons of the Trinity. Here is a somewhat complicated article that explains it:

https://newtheologicalmovement.blogspot.com/2011/06/are-there-three-personalities-in-god-i.html

I like his conclusion: that we shouldn't go beyond what Scripture states and just say there are three "I"s within the one God.

 

[Runningman]

You show that you no nothing about Greek grammar!

Neuter refers to an it, not a he. You deny this because it doesn't help your false premise.

Check out John 14:17 in a Greek interlinear. I recommend Bible Hub. The Holy Spirit is an it in this context. Even the "he" pronouns attached to it are false.

 

[Runningman]

We shouldn't be saying that God is a Person. That would be a unitarian view of God. God is spirit and he is a Being that subsists as three coequal, coeternal, consubstantial Persons (trinitarian).

According to Got Questions, a trinitarian commentary on the Bible, God is a person. On this particular point, I agree with them.

"He is a rational Being with self-awareness. Theologians often define person as “an individual being with a mind, emotions, and a will.” God definitely has an intellect (Psalm 139:17), emotions (Psalm 78:41), and volition (1 Corinthians 1:1). So, yes, God is a person.

God the Father is a Person with a mind (Isaiah 55:8–9), emotions (Psalm 78:40), and a will (1 Peter 2:15).

God shows His personal nature in that He expresses anger (Psalm 7:11), laughs (Psalm 2:4), has compassion (Psalm 135:14), loves (1 John 4:8), hates (Psalm 11:5), teaches (John 14:25), reproves (John 16:8), and leads (Romans 8:14). All of these actions imply the fact that God is a person."

 

[Free]

Neuter refers to an it, not a he. You deny this because it doesn't help your false premise.

Check out John 14:17 in a Greek interlinear. I recommend Bible Hub. The Holy Spirit is an it in this context. Even the "he" pronouns attached to it are false.

That’s an exegetical fallacy which can be proven in at least three ways.

According to Got Questions, a trinitarian commentary on the Bible, God is a person. On this particular point, I agree with them.

"He is a rational Being with self-awareness. Theologians often define person as “an individual being with a mind, emotions, and a will.” God definitely has an intellect (Psalm 139:17), emotions (Psalm 78:41), and volition (1 Corinthians 1:1). So, yes, God is a person.

God the Father is a Person with a mind (Isaiah 55:8–9), emotions (Psalm 78:40), and a will (1 Peter 2:15).

God shows His personal nature in that He expresses anger (Psalm 7:11), laughs (Psalm 2:4), has compassion (Psalm 135:14), loves (1 John 4:8), hates (Psalm 11:5), teaches (John 14:25), reproves (John 16:8), and leads (Romans 8:14). All of these actions imply the fact that God is a person."

They are wrong for doing so. They also state that “The Bible teaches that God exists in three Persons: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. The tri-unity of God is a difficult concept to consider, but the proof is in the Bible.” But that would be a contradiction since they already say that God is one person. That is precisely why Trinitarians define the Trinity as three Persons within the one Being that is God; three whos, one what.

https://www.gotquestions.org/is-God-a-person.html

 

[Randy]

Where does Jesus say that he receives the Spirit from the Father?

It was Peter. As stated by the Father -His Spirit As stated by Jesus -sent in His Name
Acts 2:33
Exalted to the right hand of God, he has received from the Father the promised Holy Spirit and has poured out what you now see and hear.

Jesus speaks of the Holy Spirit as another parakletos, not another Spirit. And, again, the Father only speaks at Jesus's baptism and at his transfiguration. He speaks about his Son, not the Holy Spirit. Also, again, Jesus says the Father will send the Spirit but he says he will send the Spirit.

He speaks of it as another as it NOT His own. Only the Father states "My Spirit"

It has nothing to do with putting on different hats, but the Holy Spirit is clearly called the Spirit of Christ, the Spirit of Jesus Christ, and the Spirit of his Son. Whether those names or the Spirit of God or Spirit of your Father, the NT writers simply used different names to refer to the only Holy Spirit.

Yes it was sent in Jesus's name by the Father. Jesus stated so, "Whom the Father will send in My name"
This is not Jesus stating He will pour out His Spirit.
John 14:26
But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you.

It is the Holy Spirit, distinct and always kept distinct from the Father.

Not True
Zech 4:6
So he said to me, “This is the word of the Lord to Zerubbabel: ‘Not by might nor by power, but by my Spirit,’ says the Lord Almighty.
Matt 12:18
“Here is my servant whom I have chosen,
the one I love, in whom I delight;
I will put my Spirit on him,
and he will proclaim justice to the nations.

Except that the logic precludes your beliefs about the Son. If all things came through the Son, then it necessarily follows that he is eternal and every bit God in the same way as the Father. It simply cannot be otherwise.

It is the Father Deity not His own. Reason states if all the fullness of the Fathers Deity was pleased to dwell in Him then He is all that the Father is.
As in God from true God
or the Fathers essence

I have given many verses that have shown this to be the case but they have gone unaddressed.


The one true deity is the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. That is what the totality of the biblical revelation gives us.

No it is not.
The one true God is the Father. His fullness dwells in Christ and its the Spirit of the Father (God) not God the Spirit.

You hold to that particular statement but ignore the other statements I have provided. You seem to be picking and choosing which verses to believe.

The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are the true God.

One God the Father; One Lord Jesus Christ; as I read

Where does the Father himself say this?


There is no need; it's simply what the Bible shows. We have to be faithful to the truth of Scripture.

Jesus is not coeternal. He is a born Son of the Father before all things. The Deity in Him is the Fathers.
There was a need to exalt Him before all creation.
There was a need to show His Sonship as Superior as contrasted to the Angels of God.

What do you think think this says? Why do you not include verses 5-8? You cannot fully understand verses 9-11 if you leave out what comes before.

I can understand Jesus Christ is LORD to the glory of GOD the Father because He was GIVEN authority.

 

[Runningman]

That’s an exegetical fallacy which can be proven in at least three ways.

No I am right.

They are wrong for doing so. They also state that “The Bible teaches that God exists in three Persons: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. The tri-unity of God is a difficult concept to consider, but the proof is in the Bible.” But that would be a contradiction since they already say that God is one person. That is precisely why Trinitarians define the Trinity as three Persons within the one Being that is God; three whos, one what.

https://www.gotquestions.org/is-God-a-person.html

Then according to you, it would seem God is an it and neither the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are God but rather are persons that the "it God" exists in; that's a round about way of coming back to unitarianism. That's why I disagree with you about this point.

I do agree with the vast majority of trinitarians who hold the belief that God is a person. I am under the impression the vast majority believe God is a person because trinitarian scholars and commentators say so and I have rarely, if ever, seen this contested by someone I've talked to.

People have been trying to prove it for a long time, but normally the bottom line comes down to it being a "great mystery." That means trinitarianism relies on a great mystery, rather than scripture, reason, and logic to understand God. That's why I prefer what the Bible explicitly says on the matter; one God, the Father, the only true God.

 

[SolaScriptura]

Neuter refers to an it, not a he. You deny this because it doesn't help your false premise.

Check out John 14:17 in a Greek interlinear. I recommend Bible Hub. The Holy Spirit is an it in this context. Even the "he" pronouns attached to it are false.

Is Jesus Christ a PERSON or THING?

1 John 1:1

"What was from the beginning, what we have heard, what we have seen with our eyes, what we have looked at and touched with our hands, concerning the Word of Life"

Notice four times John says WHAT, which in the Greek is "ho", which is the NEUTER relative!

To make sure that we understand Who John is speaking of, we read in verse 3, "and indeed our fellowship is with the Father, and with His Son Jesus Christ"

Do you suppose those whom God the Father gave Jesus Christ, are THINGS?

John 6:37

"All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will certainly not cast out"

"THAT" in the Greek is same as in 1 John 1:1, "ho", the NEUTER!

I strongly suggest, that, before you post on here, make sure you know what you are talking about, and if you are to question what I have written, also make sure you know your stuff, before making a complete FOOL of yourself in public!

 

[Runningman]

Your FOOLISH arguments, which clearly show that you have not got a CLUE of what you are talking about, will be DESTROYED by the Word of God!

First of all, I would appreciate it if you speak to me in a respectful way with civility. My arguments aren't foolish and you will destroy nothing. Thank you.

Is Jesus Christ a PERSON or THING?

You're conflating Jesus (a person, a he) the Christ (a title, an anointing) with the word (logos, an it).

1 John 1:1

"What was from the beginning, what we have heard, what we have seen with our eyes, what we have looked at and touched with our hands, concerning the Word of Life"

Notice four times John says WHAT, which in the Greek is "ho", which is the NEUTER relative!

To make sure that we understand Who John is speaking of, we read in verse 3, "and indeed our fellowship is with the Father, and with His Son Jesus Christ"

Do you suppose those whom God the Father gave Jesus Christ, are THINGS?

I am surprised you picked 1 John 1:1,2 because this says the "Word of Life" is in it in nearly every version in. The logos of God (an it) manifested a man ( a he.)

1 John 1
1That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our own eyes, which we have gazed upon and touched with our own hands—this is the Word of life. 2And this is the life that was revealed; we have seen it and testified to it, and we proclaim to you the eternal life that was with the Father and was revealed to us.

John 6:37

"All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will certainly not cast out"

"THAT" in the Greek is same as in 1 John 1:1, "ho", the NEUTER!

"all that the Father gives" and "the one who comes to me" are not the same things. One is an it the other is a person. Apples and oranges comparison because "the one" is gender neutral, it refers to anyone whether male or female.

I strongly suggest, that, before you post on here, make sure you know what you are talking about, and if you are to question what I have written, also make sure you know your stuff, before making a complete FOOL of yourself in public!

You know ZERO Greek grammar, and yet you continue to make DUMB remarks on here!

I strongly suggest you work on your tone and temperament in public.

Neuter refers to an it. Masculine and feminine pronouns refer to a he or she.

 

[GodsGrace]

Your FOOLISH arguments, which clearly show that you have not got a CLUE of what you are talking about, will be DESTROYED by the Word of God!

Is Jesus Christ a PERSON or THING?

1 John 1:1

"What was from the beginning, what we have heard, what we have seen with our eyes, what we have looked at and touched with our hands, concerning the Word of Life"

Notice four times John says WHAT, which in the Greek is "ho", which is the NEUTER relative!

To make sure that we understand Who John is speaking of, we read in verse 3, "and indeed our fellowship is with the Father, and with His Son Jesus Christ"

Do you suppose those whom God the Father gave Jesus Christ, are THINGS?

John 6:37

"All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will certainly not cast out"

"THAT" in the Greek is same as in 1 John 1:1, "ho", the NEUTER!

I strongly suggest, that, before you post on here, make sure you know what you are talking about, and if you are to question what I have written, also make sure you know your stuff, before making a complete FOOL of yourself in public!

You know ZERO Greek grammar, and yet you continue to make DUMB remarks on here!

YOU ARE BREAKING TOS RULES.
1.1
1.3
1.5
PLEASE ADDRESS THE TOPIC AND DO NOT MAKE PERSONAL STATEMENTS.

DO NOT REPLY TO THIS POST IN THIS THREAD.
USE TALK WITH STAFF IF NECESSARY.

ADDRESSING A MODERATOR IN AN OPEN THREAD IS GROUNDS FOR A THREAD BAN.

 

[Free]

It was Peter. As stated by the Father -His Spirit As stated by Jesus -sent in His Name
Acts 2:33
Exalted to the right hand of God, he has received from the Father the promised Holy Spirit and has poured out what you now see and hear.

Notice that it doesn't say that the Holy Spirit is the Father's Spirit, only that Jesus received "the promised Holy Spirit" whom he poured out, as he promised.

He speaks of it as another as it NOT His own.

There is no idea of "ownership" here, that is, who the Holy Spirit belongs to. Jesus speaks of "another" because it is not him; it is one like him but not him. Jesus is the first parakletos.

Only the Father states "My Spirit"

Where does the Father state "My Spirit"?

Yes it was sent in Jesus's name by the Father. Jesus stated so, "Whom the Father will send in My name"
This is not Jesus stating He will pour out His Spirit.
John 14:26
But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you.

But you are conveniently leaving out two other verses which I previously provided:

Joh 15:26 “But when the Helper comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth, who proceeds from the Father, he will bear witness about me. (ESV)

Joh 16:7 Nevertheless, I tell you the truth: it is to your advantage that I go away, for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you. But if I go, I will send him to you. (ESV)

Note also further context of John 16:

Joh 16:13 When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth, for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come.
Joh 16:14 He will glorify me, for he will take what is mine and declare it to you.
Joh 16:15 All that the Father has is mine; therefore I said that he will take what is mine and declare it to you. (ESV)

Notice especially that Jesus claims "all that the Father has is mine." This shows his equality with the Father; it would have been blasphemous otherwise.

Not True
Zech 4:6
So he said to me, “This is the word of the Lord to Zerubbabel: ‘Not by might nor by power, but by my Spirit,’ says the Lord Almighty.
Matt 12:18
“Here is my servant whom I have chosen,
the one I love, in whom I delight;
I will put my Spirit on him,
and he will proclaim justice to the nations.

But this is fallaciously begging the question. You're beginning with the assumption that God is only the Father.

It is the Father Deity not His own.

That is reading into that verse something that isn't there. The verse says what it says and is in full agreement with John 1:1-3, Col 1:16-17, Heb 1:2 and Heb 1:10-12. Not a single thing came into being apart from the Son. To argue that "it is the Father's Deity not His own," means that the Son would had to have existed prior to being filled with the Father's deity, but then that would mean all those verses, and 1 Cor 8:6, are wrong.

The logic is inescapable--there was never a time when the Son did not exist.

Reason states if all the fullness of the Fathers Deity was pleased to dwell in Him then He is all that the Father is.
As in God from true God
or the Fathers essence

I agree that Jesus is God from God, sharing in the same essence as the Father. That is in full agreement with Trinitarianism. However, if the Son is all that the Father is, as you claim, then there never was a time when the Son did not exist. If there was a time when the Son did not exist, then he cannot be all that the Father is. Your position contradicts itself.

No it is not.
The one true God is the Father. His fullness dwells in Christ and its the Spirit of the Father (God) not God the Spirit.

The one true God is all three persons, being of the same substance that is deity, making them coequal and coeternal.

One God the Father; One Lord Jesus Christ; as I read

If "one God, the Father," precludes Jesus from being truly God, then "one Lord, Jesus Christ," precludes the Father from ever being Lord. Yet, we know that God is called Lord in many passages. Again, logic shows your position to be self-contradictory.

Jesus is not coeternal. He is a born Son of the Father before all things. The Deity in Him is the Fathers.

The Son is coeternal; that is what John 1:1-18 and Phil 2:5-8 make very clear.

There was a need to exalt Him before all creation.
There was a need to show His Sonship as Superior as contrasted to the Angels of God.

Yes, I agree, so that humans would know that he is preeminent, sovereign, and Lord of all creation, and therefore should have bowed the knee before it was too late.

I can understand Jesus Christ is LORD to the glory of GOD the Father because He was GIVEN authority.

Be careful in capitalizing "LORD," as that is used to mean YHWH, although I agree with that.

 

[Free]

No I am right.

You say so, but you haven't given any evidence.

Then according to you, it would seem God is an it and neither the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are God but rather are persons that the "it God" exists in; that's a round about way of coming back to unitarianism. That's why I disagree with you about this point.

I have no idea how you got that from what I said. I have consistently stated that they are three distinct persons within the one Being that is God--three persons, one substance.

I do agree with the vast majority of trinitarians who hold the belief that God is a person. I am under the impression the vast majority believe God is a person because trinitarian scholars and commentators say so and I have rarely, if ever, seen this contested by someone I've talked to.

Got Questions? is the first time I've seen any Trinitarian state that God is a person. Most I have read agree with me that to say God is three persons in one person is a contradiction, as it is to say that he is three beings in one being. Person is never to be equated with Being when discussing the Trinity. Both of those words are used in the way I have given for the very reason I gave--to avoid contradiction, which is irrational.

People have been trying to prove it for a long time, but normally the bottom line comes down to it being a "great mystery." That means trinitarianism relies on a great mystery, rather than scripture, reason, and logic to understand God.

There is mystery involved but no one should be saying it is only a mystery that somehow developed out of thin air. We know that the Holy Spirit somehow caused Jesus to be conceived in Mary, but we don't know how; the Incarnation is a mystery. We don't know how the fullness of God could dwell inside a human, yet we know it happened. That, too, is a mystery.

Likewise, we have all the foundations of the Trinity directly in Scripture: 1) there is only one God, 2) there are three divine persons, and 3) the persons are coequal and coeternal. How can there be plurality within the unity of the one God? That is a mystery, but it is not a mystery based on nothing. The doctrine of the Trinity would not exist if those foundations weren't in the Bible. There would be absolutely no reason for a core doctrine of the faith regarding the nature of God to be simply made up and not based on Scripture, as it could then so easily be proven false. And it would have been proven false and abandoned long ago if it wasn't based on Scripture.

If you can fully understand God and there is no mystery, then he is a god of your own imagination. The finite simply cannot fully comprehend the infinite. Reason and logic prove that that is the case.

That's why I prefer what the Bible explicitly says on the matter; one God, the Father, the only true God.

Based on Scripture, reason, and logic, God cannot be just one person. That is a deficient God because he cannot be all that the Bible says he is. He cannot be a God that is love. Reason and logic dictate that it is impossible for a unitarian God to actually be love.

And, remember, there is not a single verse which explicitly or directly states that God is only one person.