1 John 1: Against self-justifying doctrine

[Hopeful 2]

Sorry but that is not found in the text of the passage.

You don't see it because you think Christians walk in darkness.
They do not.

Unless you are attempting to try and insinuate that "we" somehow really means "them".
The same "we" and "our" that has fellowship with Him, is the same "we" and "our" that confesses our sins and are cleansed of all unrighteousness.

"IF" we walk in darkness, verses 6, 8, and 10, apply to us.
But "IF" we walk in the light, verses 6, 8, and 10, don't apply to us.
Do you really think 1 John 1:5 is wrong ?
"This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all." (1 John 1:5)
Sinners, those walking in darkness, are not walking in God: contrary to your POV.

 

[Hopeful 2]

Hopeful's whole perspective comes from the false teaching that his denomination promotes.

He was taught that when a person is water baptized their physical body was born again "sinless" and therefore does not influence the Christian to sin; in essence the water baptized Christian is sinless in body.

After being shown his error from scripture, he simply denies what Jesus taught.

Words of Christ in red -

That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. John 3:6

• That which is born of the flesh is flesh
• that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

Being reborn of God, is not being born of the flesh.

 

[Hopeful 2]

.Then Abraham fell on his face and laughed and said to himself, “Shall a child be born to a man who is a hundred years old? Shall Sarah, who is ninety years old, bear a child?”
Abraham repented when He belived God and not His natural abilities.

I can't consider that doubt to be a sin.

The opposite of faith may be doubt/unbeliebing

He ended up doing the works of the faithful.

James 2:21
refers to Abraham’s willingness to sacrifice his son Isaac.
Abraham believed and it was imputed to him for righteousness.
......
There is said to be another time too..

So my point here Salvation is not just about heaven but what He delivers you from now by abiding in the teachings of Christ.

Don't you think then, that a life on earth without sin is possible now ?
Abide in the faith !
Many of the nay-sayers speak and write of faith, but their sin accommodating actions are faithless.

 

[Josef]

Hey all,

Grace can be lost by something you do because there is something you need to do to stay in God's grace.

Galatians 5
4You who are trying to be justified by the law have been severed from Christ; you have fallen away from grace.

Jude 1
4For certain men have crept in among you unnoticed—ungodly ones who were designated long ago for condemnation. They turn the grace of our God into a license for immorality, and they deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ.

Hey All,
You forgot one Runningman.
Or, you conveniently left it out because it doesn't
fit your paradyme.

Romans 5:20-21 Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:
That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.

Grace cannot be lost. It is a gift from God.

Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Romans 11:29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.

God does not take His gifts back.

Galatians 5 is talking about maintaining the Law as a replacement for grace.

Galatians 5:4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

Paul is saying circumcision does not replace grace. If you use it as an indicator of salvation, you are wrong. You nullify Jesus' saving work on the cross. We are only saved by grace through faith in Jesus. (Ephesians 2:8-9) Once given, God's grace is always a part of our lives.

Jude 1:4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.

We definitely see this with some of "Christian cults." If you know what the Bible says, they are easy to spot. Using grace as a way to do whatever a person wants, is abuse of Christ's salvation. As such it is a denial of grace. That is very different than having it and losing it. Sinning once in a while, does not cause a person to lose their salvation.
Why?

Romans 5:20 Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:

We are in sinful bodies of flesh.
There will be occasions where we sin.
The flesh will get the best of us from time to time.
That is why John tells how to correct the situation of unconfessed sin.

1 John 2:1-2 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

But there is no way making a mistake makes us unsaved.

1 John 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

If we do what John teaches us, there is no need to question our salvation.

Sinless perfection is an ideal.
Through the grace of God, our new creature is sinlessly perfect. But only through God's grace. The minute we start to rely on our own behavior, we are in sin. But God does not remove His grace from us when we sin.
God cannot.
He will not.

Romans 5:20 Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:

His grace grows.
God does not take His grace away when we need it the most.

Keep walking everybody.
May God bless,
Taz

 

[JLB]

You don't see it because you think Christians walk in darkness.
They do not.

"IF" we walk in darkness, verses 6, 8, and 10, apply to us.
But "IF" we walk in the light, verses 6, 8, and 10, don't apply to us.
Do you really think 1 John 1:5 is wrong ?
"This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all." (1 John 1:5)
Sinners, those walking in darkness, are not walking in God: contrary to your POV.

Are you are attempting to try and insinuate that "we" somehow really means "them"; sinners?


The same "we" and "our" that has fellowship with Him, is the same "we" and "our" that confesses our sins and are cleansed of all unrighteousness.

1 John was written to born again Christians.


That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, concerning the Word of life— the life was manifested, and we have seen, and bear witness, and declare to you that eternal life which was with the Father and was manifested to us— that which we have seen and heard we declare to you, that you also may have fellowship with us; and truly our fellowship is with the Father and with His Son Jesus Christ. And these things we write to you that your joy may be full.
This is the message which we have heard from Him and declare to you, that God is light and in Him is no darkness at all. If we say that we have fellowship with Him, and walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth.
But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin. If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us. 1 John 1:1-10

 

[JLB]

Being reborn of God, is not being born of the flesh.

Correct, your flesh remains the same, which contains sin.

As Paul plainly says to born again Christians...

• Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts.

1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? 2 Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it? 3 Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death? 4 Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5 For if we have been united together in the likeness of His death, certainly we also shall be in the likeness of His resurrection, 6 knowing this, that our old man was crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves of sin. 7 For he who has died has been freed from sin. 8 Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him, 9 knowing that Christ, having been raised from the dead, dies no more. Death no longer has dominion over Him. 10 For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God. 11 Likewise you also, reckon yourselves to be dead indeed to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus our Lord.
12 Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts. Romans 6:1-12

 

[Runningman]

Hey All,
You forgot one Runningman.
Or, you conveniently left it out because it doesn't
fit your paradyme.

Romans 5:20-21 Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:
That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.

Grace cannot be lost. It is a gift from God.

Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Romans 11:29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.

God does not take His gifts back.

Galatians 5 is talking about maintaining the Law as a replacement for grace.

Galatians 5:4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

Paul is saying circumcision does not replace grace. If you use it as an indicator of salvation, you are wrong. You nullify Jesus' saving work on the cross. We are only saved by grace through faith in Jesus. (Ephesians 2:8-9) Once given, God's grace is always a part of our lives.

Jude 1:4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.

We definitely see this with some of "Christian cults." If you know what the Bible says, they are easy to spot. Using grace as a way to do whatever a person wants, is abuse of Christ's salvation. As such it is a denial of grace. That is very different than having it and losing it. Sinning once in a while, does not cause a person to lose their salvation.
Why?

Romans 5:20 Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:

We are in sinful bodies of flesh.
There will be occasions where we sin.
The flesh will get the best of us from time to time.
That is why John tells how to correct the situation of unconfessed sin.

1 John 2:1-2 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

But there is no way making a mistake makes us unsaved.

1 John 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

If we do what John teaches us, there is no need to question our salvation.

Sinless perfection is an ideal.
Through the grace of God, our new creature is sinlessly perfect. But only through God's grace. The minute we start to rely on our own behavior, we are in sin. But God does not remove His grace from us when we sin.
God cannot.
He will not.

Romans 5:20 Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:

His grace grows.
God does not take His grace away when we need it the most.

Keep walking everybody.
May God bless,
Taz

Hey all,

The author of Hebrews 10:26, wrote "If we deliberately go on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no further sacrifice for sins remains..."
This means that if you know what the truth about sin is, yet you continue to abide in sin, then you lose the sacrifice for your sins. If you lose the sacrifice for your sins, you are not abiding in God's grace because of something you deliberately decided to do. Therefore, as a result, staying in God's grace requires your effort, for Paul once said "continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling,"

This is precisely why if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from all sin.

Your deliberate choices will shape your own relationship with God.

God will repay each one according to his deeds. Those who by perseverance in doing good seek glory, honor, and immortality, He will give eternal life. But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow wickedness, there will be wrath and anger.

Romans 11
19You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I could be grafted in.” 20That is correct: They were broken off because of unbelief, but you stand by faith. Do not be arrogant, but be afraid. 21For if God did not spare the natural branches, He will certainly not spare you either.

22Take notice, therefore, of the kindness and severity of God: severity to those who fell, but kindness to you, if you continue in His kindness. Otherwise you also will be cut off.

"Unmerited grace" isn't a Biblical doctrine.

 

[Runningman]

You mentioned that "the idea was a general striving towards righteousness".
Aren't we made righteous by our repentance from sin, baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of past sins, and our sanctification by the blood of Christ ?
You speak from a place of eventual acceptance by God, when it is here already.

The truly repentant are obedient.

But what happens after everyone repents of their sin and then they still keep sinning? Where is the repentance that allegedly happened? That's why I am saying the idea isn't sinless perfection, but a general striving toward goodness and righteousness.

Read 1 John. It's a really good read about how to stay in God's grace from a Biblical perspective. People are going to really go the extra mile to water this down because the way to eternal life is actually tough as Jesus said (Matthew 7:14) and God is both kind and severe. He will cut people off as Paul said in Romans 11:19-22.

 

[Free]

I define grace just using the normal textbook definition.

Which is what, according to the textbook you use?

 

[Hopeful 2]

Are you are attempting to try and insinuate that "we" somehow really means "them"; sinners?


The same "we" and "our" that has fellowship with Him, is the same "we" and "our" that confesses our sins and are cleansed of all unrighteousness.

I am saying that IF we walk in darkness, we can neither say we have fellowship with God or that we have no sin.
BUT IF we walk in the light, we can say both.

 

[Hopeful 2]

Correct, your flesh remains the same, which contains sin.

You say "correct" than deny it.

As Paul plainly says to born again Christians...

• Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts.

The skin and bones will fade away, but that doesn't make them sinful.
He also doesn't command the impossible.

1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? 2 Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it? 3 Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death? 4 Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5 For if we have been united together in the likeness of His death, certainly we also shall be in the likeness of His resurrection, 6 knowing this, that our old man was crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves of sin. 7 For he who has died has been freed from sin. 8 Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him, 9 knowing that Christ, having been raised from the dead, dies no more. Death no longer has dominion over Him. 10 For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God. 11 Likewise you also, reckon yourselves to be dead indeed to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus our Lord.
12 Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts. Romans 6:1-12

Obey the commandment, and see what happens !

 

[Hopeful 2]

But what happens after everyone repents of their sin and then they still keep sinning? Where is the repentance that allegedly happened? That's why I am saying the idea isn't sinless perfection, but a general striving toward goodness and righteousness.

If they sin after an alleged repentance, the repentance was a lie.

Read 1 John. It's a really good read about how to stay in God's grace from a Biblical perspective. People are going to really go the extra mile to water this down because the way to eternal life is actually tough as Jesus said (Matthew 7:14) and God is both kind and severe. He will cut people off as Paul said in Romans 11:19-22.

As 1 John 1 says, if we walk in the light (which is God in Whom is no sin), we can claim fellowship with God and that we have no sin.
1 John 2:3-6 says..."And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.
6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked."

Do you "know Him" ?
Are you "in Him" ?
Your walk will manifest the answer.

 

[Runningman]

If they sin after an alleged repentance, the repentance was a lie.

People can repent then make mistakes, succumb to weakness, and then later repent again. It isn't one extreme of either repenting to never sin again forever or the other extreme of being a liar.

As 1 John 1 says, if we walk in the light (which is God in Whom is no sin), we can claim fellowship with God and that we have no sin.
1 John 2:3-6 says..."And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.
6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked."

Do you "know Him" ?
Are you "in Him" ?
Your walk will manifest the answer.

Yes that's correct within its proper context, but being "in Christ" doesn't result in the immediate transformation of being like Jesus. It's more like a step by step process whereby one grows and is progressively sanctified.

In 1 Corinthians 3, Paul addressed them as unspiritual and worldly, yet still in Christ. They hadn't matured yet because they hadn't yet been completely transformed in their mind and spirit, just like Paul in Romans 7.

1 Corinthians 3
1Brothers, I could not address you as spiritual, but as worldly—as infants in Christ.

 

[Corinth77777]

Did anything have to happen for God's grace to be given to people? Did anyone have to die? did anyone have to believe or do anything?

...

A lot had to happen for grace to appear. It isn't unmerited.

The grace given is unearned by the receiver.

 

[Corinth77777]

Did anything have to happen for God's grace to be given to people? Did anyone have to die? did anyone have to believe or do anything?

BY grace are we saved- GOD DOING WHAT WE COULD NOT DO ON OUR OWN- IS UNEARNED BY THE RECEIVER.

THAT'S WHY SHE ASKED THE QUESTION.
SHE WAS WRITING ON THE RECEIVING END.

ITS NOT GRACE IF ITS NOT GIVEN
FOR NO ONE COULD USE IT.

GRACE IS NOT ONLY UNMERRITTED FAVOR. BUT STEPPING IN TO DO WHAT WE CANNOT DO ON OUR OWN.

 

[JLB]

I am saying that IF we walk in darkness, we can neither say we have fellowship with God or that we have no sin.
BUT IF we walk in the light, we can say both.

Waking in darkness refers to "not walking in love" or "walking in hate".

It is a warning to born again Christians, so that we learn the priority of walking in love, which includes forgiveness.

Let's agree to draw our understanding from the scriptures and not the doctrine of man.

Here is the context of walking in the light and walking in darkness, that John the Apostle is teaching us by the Spirit -

I will highlight key words and phrases for us to examine and discuss. This way we are not making up definitions to suit our own doctrinal "belief".


But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin.

• So far we see the scriptures teach us that the blood of Jesus cleanses those who walk in the light, from all sin.

If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us.
My little children, these things I write to you, so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world. Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments. He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But whoever keeps His word, truly the love of God is perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him. He who says he abides in Him ought himself also to walk just as He walked.
Brethren, I write no new commandment to you, but an old commandment which you have had from the beginning. The old commandment is the word which you heard from the beginning. Again, a new commandment I write to you, which thing is true in Him and in you, because the darkness is passing away, and the true light is already shining.
He who says he is in the light, and hates his brother, is in darkness until now. He who loves his brother abides in the light, and there is no cause for stumbling in him. But he who hates his brother is in darkness and walks in darkness, and does not know where he is going, because the darkness has blinded his eyes. 1 John 1:7 - 2:11

• But he who hates his brother is in darkness

John plainly defines what he means by darkness; One brother in Christ who begins hating another brother in Christ.


Here are the first two points I have made in the passage of scripture:

• So far we see the scriptures teach us that the blood of Jesus cleanses those who walk in the light, from all sin.
• John plainly defines what he means by darkness; One brother in Christ who begins hating another brother in Christ.

 

[RBDERRICK]

Be aware, that darkness is sin..."The way of the wicked is as darkness:" (Pro 4:19)

Good work.

We often find it necessary to prove the obvious with the gainsayers. They would ask foolish questions like, is sinning walking in darkness?

And since God has foreseen every gainsaying response, then He has every proof against it written beforehand.

Job 5:13
He taketh the wise in their own craftiness: and the counsel of the froward is carried headlong.

1 Cor 3:19
For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, He taketh the wise in their own craftiness.

"Waking in darkness refers to "not walking in love" or "walking in hate"."

Even as we see a fine example of it here: Walking in darkness is not walking in sins and trespasses, as the Scripture says. No, it's own for those loving it, and hating God's righteousness.

Which is why some preach they no longer 'love' it when sinning, but 'hate' it. Their sinning and trespassing is in the light of God's love, not in the darkness of man's hate.

It means the blood of Christ has washed away all your past sins.

And this blessedness is only for them that repent of all past sinning, even as God commands all men to do.

Acts 17:30
And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent.

The hardened and unrepentant seeking to be washed by believing it alone, also double down, and demand all their present and future sinning be already forgiven beforehand.

By their own faith alone, they cover themselves from condemnation of transpass by their own grace alone.

God's grace is help in time of temptation not to do it, even as Jesus was tempted without sinning by it.

"BY grace are we saved- GOD DOING WHAT WE COULD NOT DO ON OUR OWN- IS UNEARNED BY THE RECEIVER."

Which we see wonderfully on display here also: Their grace does not save them from sinning, but only any condemnation for their continued sinning.

Why? because they say they cannot repent of their sinning for His grace' help not to sin. Why not? Simply because like all unrepented sinners, they are still harnened in the pleasures thereof. But unlike self-justifying sinners, they love to believe they are saved from the guilt of it by their own grace alone.

This is the 'love' of unrepentant sinners walking in light, and not in the hate of darkness...

Sinning is not the evil to them, since they continue enjoying their own works of the flesh, but the righteous judgment of God is the evil, that they seek to shield themselves from by their own grace of faith alone.

And so they don't preach Jesus' salvation from their sinning, but only their own salvation from their condemnation for sinning.

This is the one thing, that all of the great multitudes of gainsaying arguments are made for: to continue sinning unto heaven...

Ps 5:10
Destroy thou them, O God; let them fall by their own counsels; cast them out in the multitude of their transgressions; for they have rebelled against thee.

 

[JLB]

The skin and bones will fade away, but that doesn't make them sinful.
He also doesn't command the impossible.

The human body, the flesh of a Christian is not born again sinless.


Paul speaking to those who are in Christ Jesus -
There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. Romans 8:1

The human body still contains sin (sin nature) and is condemned to die and be resurrected. The exception being those who are alive and remain and are "raptured" at His coming. These will also have their physical bodies changed just like those who are resurrected from the dead.


Paul speaking to water baptized Christians -

12 Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts. Romans 6:12




JLB

 

[journeymanisnothing]

Did anything have to happen for God's grace to be given to people?

They had to be shown their sin against Him.

Did anyone have to die?

No, but our Lord was falsely charged, convicted and executed in violation of the law. His mercy is shown in forgiving the sinners who did that.

did anyone have to believe or do anything?

Yes. Peter explained the OT scriptures in light of the Messiah conquering all enemies by His victory over death. The Jews listening to Peter immediately saw their error and said,

Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the restof the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do? Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. Act.2:37-38 KJV

 

[Hopeful 2]

People can repent then make mistakes, succumb to weakness, and then later repent again.

If so, the only repentance that was real was the last one.

It isn't one extreme of either repenting to never sin again forever or the other extreme of being a liar.

It is one extreme or the other.
There is no darkness in God.
There is no sin in Christ.
How can we walk in Christ with sin on us ?
We can't.

Yes that's correct within its proper context, but being "in Christ" doesn't result in the immediate transformation of being like Jesus. It's more like a step by step process whereby one grows and is progressively sanctified.

Your fight is against obedience to God.
There is no progressive sanctification.
It occurs instantly at the application of the Lord's atoning, sanctifying blood.

In 1 Corinthians 3, Paul addressed them as unspiritual and worldly, yet still in Christ. They hadn't matured yet because they hadn't yet been completely transformed in their mind and spirit, just like Paul in Romans 7.

Paul's hope was that they could be drawn back into the truth.
Their fate if they disobey would be damnation.

1 Corinthians 3
1Brothers, I could not address you as spiritual, but as worldly—as infants in Christ.

No man can address the disobedient as spiritual.
You seem to be unable to detect the sleight from Paul.
If someone called me a babe in Christ, I would be aware of a need to change for the good.