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1 John 1: Against self-justifying doctrine

If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us. 1 John 1:1-10
There is no dilemma if you realize that John is using an A-B, A-B, A-B, style of writing, whereby he juxtaposes the folks walking in darkness against those who walk in the light.
Verses 1-4 are John's opening, but only verses 5, 7, and 9 apply to those walking in God, while only verses 6, 8, and 10, apply to those walking in sin.
He can thereby emphasize the differences between the two positions.
(Paul uses the same technique in Rom. 7 to emphasize the difference between walking in the "flesh" and walking in the Spirit.)
There is a dilemma here for me- Even if the author includes Himself. It can be as under those who calls oneself a believer. Like ( if we who are believers " say that we have no sin"
I pray to God I have been able to assuage your confusion.
Verses 6, 8, and 10, apply to sinners...those in darkness.
Verses 5, 7, and 9, apply to non-sinners...those in God.
Also here which is good- "if we say we have not sinned" this is in the past
It is addressed to those walking in darkness-sin.
So that leaves one passage to think about- "if we say we have no sin"
Verse 8 addresses those who commit sin...they cannot say they have no sin.
If we say we have no transgression of the law:
Here I do not see where it is past or present.
The differences in 1 John 1 are, God or sin. Light or darkness.
Which will you walk in ?
Thanks be to God, I walk in the light-God....in Whom is no sin.
So now it's about going back to context.
Yet if He is writing to those as the Hebrew letter,
those that are in danger of falling under a different teaching. Then yes I can see why He would include Himself.
So with that inference Ill go back and read the book.
I am not sure what the last 4 lines of your post are about .
 
So lets look at this:


This sound like as long as you are in the body you are not free from transgressing the law.
(You have to use "Post Reply" from some other post in order to let me know you are writing to me...)

If you have been reborn from God's seed, (1 John 3:9), truly repented from sin, been washed by the blood of Christ at water baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of past sins, received the gift of the Holy Ghost, and are now the temple of that Holy Spirit, how can the new you/God's fruit be sinful ?
 
Now here is a reason Hopeful 2 I think you are wrong.

Because I believe Abraham was Justified more than once.

So there are particular trust issues that have to be dealt with.

For not only is sin defined as trangressing the law, but - anything that is not of faith.

So you going to tell me that Abraham's repentance was not real. Because in my view if one is justified they have turned to God for the answer. Which means they have repented.
What sin did Abe' have to repent of ?
Why do you think he was justified more than once ?

I can see Abe being justified for his belief in God, but that isn't the sort of justification you are presenting...is it ?
I mean, I have been justified by the blood of Christ, but am I not also justified in my belief very time I see something God does for me ?
 
read the bottom notes: from above url

Sin causes Guilt and one would be lying to say you have fellowship and guilt at the same time.
Agreed !
If He is addressing the sin of not loving the brothern.. referring to the opposition who might believe it is no sin, the author basically would be saying you know it's sin by guilt. So don't believe that lie.
The sinner wasn't walking in God-light.
There is no sin-darkness in God, so the sinner didn't know God, had no fellowship with God, and had not truly repented of sin.
They were not reborn of God's seed.
Those walking in the light-God can say they have no sin.
SO IT DOES SOUND LIKE THOSE WITH AN EXISTENCE OF GUILT AT THE PRESENT TIME HE HAS BEEN WRITING. BUT THE POINT ONE CAN TAKE FROM THERE IS THE ONE WITH GUILT IS MOST LIKELY A TRUE BELIEVER.
I warn you that most of the worldly bible commentaries are of the devil.
They are pre-disposed to act in accord with the other people walking in darkness.
True believers fear and obey God.
 
Then, no. Christians struggle with sin.
Christians are tempted just like the sinners.
Thankfully, God has equipt the Christians with the power to resist every temptation.
True believers have been set free from the power and penalty of sin, but still need to walk in the Spirit so as not to give in to temptation to sin. That is what much of the NT addresses, including 1 John.
Absolutely.
Don't you beleive any keep walking in the Spirit after their conversion and rebirth ?
He certainly is. That is why he tells those to whom he is writing to continually confess their sins.
You opine then that there is darkness in God.
I disagree.
If we are in the light, which is God, how can we commit any sin ?
If all one had to do was confess once and that was it, then what John states makes no sense. Again, it's about understanding what John actually wrote, since he didn't write in English as you seem to think.
I see it as a choice.
Walk in God, or walk in sin.
We can't do both.
Of course, I agree. However, what you keep failing to accept, is that everything takes time to grow to maturity. Everything. As seed is a seed, not a plant or a tree.
Start out as a child of God, and remain one.
Except this isn't true. John and the rest of the NT writers make it clear that all believers, including themselves, struggle with sin.
You see it that way because you want to see it in a light that tolerates, even accommodates sin in supposed believers.
You fail to realize that some truly do turn permanently from sin and continue to walk in God-light.
All unbelievers are sinners, but not all sinners are unbelievers. ]
All sinners don't believe God will follow through with His consequences for disobeying Him.
They are all unbelievers.
The NT makes a very clear distinction between those whose lives are characterized by unrepentant, wilful, habitual sin, and those who are justified by grace who still struggle with sin as the seed of God in them continues to grow towards maturity.
If one commits one sin a year, they are unrepentant "practicers" of sin.
That doesn’t mean true believers don’t sin.
The devils beleive, but those born of God obey.
Nowhere is that stated on Scripture. John is absolutely clear that believers do struggle with sin, which is why they are to continually confess their sins for forgiveness.
Then your chosen accommodation for sin has given you license to keep practicing sin.
You need to be much more clear in what you are saying. To call someone a liar is to state something about their character, something that defines them, based on a repeated pattern of purposeful, unconfessed behaviour. But that is far different from someone, who in the heat of a moment, without thinking, responds with a lie but then later confesses. There is a significant difference.
No, as both are fruit of the same seed.
Adam's unregenerated seed.
Again, John is talking about those whose life is characterized by wilful, unrepentant, habitual sin. Look closer at what else John states:
All who commit sin can characterize their lives as both unrepentant and habitual sinners.
1Jn 3:7 Little children, let no one deceive you. Whoever practices righteousness is righteous, as he is righteous.
1Jn 3:8 Whoever makes a practice of sinning is of the devil, for the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the works of the devil.
1Jn 3:9 No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God's seed abides in him; and he cannot keep on sinning, because he has been born of God.
1Jn 3:10 By this it is evident who are the children of God, and who are the children of the devil: whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is the one who does not love his brother. (ESV)
So quit practicing sin !
Truly repent of sin, and get washed by the blood of Christ so you can be perfectly sinless.
Then continue to walk in God, in Whom is no darkness-sin.
Those who do not practice righteousness are not of God; they cannot do righteousness. True believers, however, can and do practice righteousness.
I agree, which really separates those who walk in sin from those who walk in God.
He isn't a revolving door.
What John is pointing out in 1 John is that while true believers practice righteousness, they still struggle with sin when tempted, and unbelievers' lives are not only characterized by sin, but they cannot do righteousness.
Only a true repentance from sin will allow a man to walk in God.
Waverers will be lost.
 
Tks for this one. My brother told me to look this up. And I responded with this question saying: if one is walking in the light in Christ do they have sin? Or is sin looked over?

So here's a thought 🤔. If one is cleansed from sin do they still have sin.

So what does that mean: to be cleansed from all sin. Does it mean you no longer have the Guilt that seperates you. It definitely does not mean you never sinned in the past. Does it mean you are still transgressing the Law if you are cleansed.

Or We have no transgressions of the law?

Does it mean being in the body we automatically transgress the law, Yet are forgiven while transgressing the law?

So my question: Is one transgressing the law if they are walking by the Spirit?

Do you believe that one cannot continually walk by the Spirit and remain in the teachings of Christ and at some point they will walk by the flesh.

JLB
The idea is a general striving toward righteousness and goodness. Because of one's sincere pursuit and desire to do what is good and righteous, in return, the blood of Jesus cleanses us from sin. There is no such thing as unmerited grace. God still takes sinning and immorality seriously. People can fall from grace and lose their salvation. He also doesn't have any favorites. Regardless of how much He loves someone and favors them, He won't compromise His standard of righteousness for them.

The idea isn't sinless perfection either. The idea is that when/if one sins then they can confess their sins and, according to John, there is the guarantee of forgiveness. The idea isn't lip service either. The idea is confession with the intention and observable effort to not repeat the same mistake(s).

This also forces someone to develop a relationship with God. Interaction with God before the throne of grace will inevitably follow.

There may be some gray areas about what a sin may or may not be because not everything is explicitly stated in the Bible. A good guide is if Jesus wouldn't do it then we probably shouldn't be doing it either.
 
The idea is a general striving toward righteousness and goodness. Because of one's sincere pursuit and desire to do what is good and righteous, in return, the blood of Jesus cleanses us from sin. There is no such thing as unmerited grace. God still takes sinning and immorality seriously. People can fall from grace and lose their salvation. He also doesn't have any favorites. Regardless of how much He loves someone and favors them, He won't compromise His standard of righteousness for them.

The idea isn't sinless perfection either. The idea is that when/if one sins then they can confess their sins and, according to John, there is the guarantee of forgiveness. The idea isn't lip service either. The idea is confession with the intention and observable effort to not repeat the same mistake(s).

This also forces someone to develop a relationship with God. Interaction with God before the throne of grace will inevitably follow.

There may be some gray areas about what a sin may or may not be because not everything is explicitly stated in the Bible. A good guide is if Jesus wouldn't do it then we probably shouldn't be doing it either.
Why strive for the impossible ?
If perfect obedience to God is impossible, what difference is there between being 75% obedient and 25% obedient ?

I thank God for making it possible to be fully obedient.
 

I define grace just using the normal textbook definition.
I like how Dallas Willard states it:

"Effort is an action. Grace is not just about forgiveness — if we had never sinned we would still need grace! Grace is God acting in our life to do what we cannot do on our own. Grace is what we live by and the human system won't work without it"
 
It is written to Christians, and about false-Christians.

Sorry but that is not found in the text of the passage.


1 John was written to born again Christians.


That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, concerning the Word of life— the life was manifested, and we have seen, and bear witness, and declare to you that eternal life which was with the Father and was manifested to us— that which we have seen and heard we declare to you, that you also may have fellowship with us; and truly our fellowship is with the Father and with His Son Jesus Christ. And these things we write to you that your joy may be full.
This is the message which we have heard from Him and declare to you, that God is light and in Him is no darkness at all. If we say that we have fellowship with Him, and walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth.
But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin. If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us. 1 John 1:1-10


Unless you are attempting to try and insinuate that "we" somehow really means "them".


The same "we" and "our" that has fellowship with Him, is the same "we" and "our" that confesses our sins and are cleansed of all unrighteousness.



JLB
 
Now here is a reason Hopeful 2 I think you are wrong.

Because I believe Abraham was Justified more than once.

So there are particular trust issues that have to be dealt with.

For not only is sin defined as trangressing the law, but - anything that is not of faith.

So you going to tell me that Abraham's repentance was not real. Because in my view if one is justified they have turned to God for the answer. Which means they have repented.


Hopeful's whole perspective comes from the false teaching that his denomination promotes.

He was taught that when a person is water baptized their physical body was born again "sinless" and therefore does not influence the Christian to sin; in essence the water baptized Christian is sinless in body.

After being shown his error from scripture, he simply denies what Jesus taught.

Words of Christ in red -

That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. John 3:6


  • That which is born of the flesh is flesh
  • that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
 
I like how Dallas Willard states it:

"Effort is an action. Grace is not just about forgiveness — if we had never sinned we would still need grace! Grace is God acting in our life to do what we cannot do on our own. Grace is what we live by and the human system won't work without it"
Did anything have to happen for God's grace to be given to people? Did anyone have to die? did anyone have to believe or do anything?
 
...
What sin did Abe' have to repent of ?
Why do you think he was justified more than once ?

Then Abraham fell on his face and laughed and said to himself, “Shall a child be born to a man who is a hundred years old? Shall Sarah, who is ninety years old, bear a child?”

Abraham repented when He belived God and not His natural abilities.

The opposite of faith may be doubt/unbeliebing

.....
James 2:21
refers to Abraham’s willingness to sacrifice his son Isaac.
Abraham believed and it was imputed to him for righteousness.
......
There is said to be another time too..

So my point here Salvation is not just about heaven but what He delivers you from now by abiding in the teachings of Christ.






I can see Abe being justified for his belief in God, but that isn't the sort of justification you are presenting...is it ?
I mean, I have been justified by the blood of Christ, but am I not also justified in my belief very time I see something God does for me ?
 
A lot had to happen for grace to appear. It isn't unmerited.
Hey All,
Grace is always unmerited.
Nobody earns God's grace.
If something is earned, it becomes wages.

Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Grace is always a gift, through faith.

Ephesians 2:8-10 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Not of works, lest any man should boast.
For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Only God's desire to have fellowship with us causes Him to bestow His grace (unmerited favor) upon us.

Keep walking everybody.
May God bless,
Taz
 
Hey All,
Grace is always unmerited.
Nobody earns God's grace.
If something is earned, it becomes wages.

Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Grace is always a gift, through faith.

Ephesians 2:8-10 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Not of works, lest any man should boast.
For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Only God's desire to have fellowship with us causes Him to bestow His grace (unmerited favor) upon us.

Keep walking everybody.
May God bless,
Taz
Hey all,

Grace can be lost by something you do because there is something you need to do to stay in God's grace.

Galatians 5
4You who are trying to be justified by the law have been severed from Christ; you have fallen away from grace.

Jude 1
4For certain men have crept in among you unnoticed—ungodly ones who were designated long ago for condemnation. They turn the grace of our God into a license for immorality, and they deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ.
 
Sorry, I think we are having a disconnect because that isn't what I said nor meant to infer.
You mentioned that "the idea was a general striving towards righteousness".
Aren't we made righteous by our repentance from sin, baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of past sins, and our sanctification by the blood of Christ ?
You speak from a place of eventual acceptance by God, when it is here already.
Who is fully obedient?
The truly repentant are obedient.
 
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