1 John 1: Against self-justifying doctrine

[RBDERRICK]

We are saved from the three Ps

Jesus saves from the one S: Sinning.

When we are saved from sinning, we are saved from the penalty and power of sinning, which is death and condemnation of God.

If only God is good and you claim you're good then wouldnt you be God?

If only the devil is no good, and you claim to be no good, are you not the devil?

Are you no good?

 

[Corinth77777]

Jesus saves from the one S: Sinning.

Saved from the 3 P's
One + one+ one = 3

(1) Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)

(2) Romans 8:13

For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
Phillip 2:12

Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.


(3)Philippians 3:21


Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.”

Rinans 5:12

I believe this order-
1. regenerated/Justified - position
2. Sanctified- experimental
3. Glorified

Jesus saves from so many things...
 
 

When we are saved from sinning, we are saved from the penalty and power of sinning, which is death and condemnation of God.

First one is Reconciled, then one is saved by His life. One needs to believe who Jesus is with intent to follow to receive Holy Spirit

If only the devil is no good, and you claim to be no good, are you not the devil?

There is no hypothetical in the original quest

 

[Corinth77777]

I like this statement by Willard:

"In vain do we try to change peoples’ heart or character by ‘moving’ them to do things in ways that bypass their understanding."

Then the answer?- bring one to understanding

There are doctrines and there are doctrines of man.

Then there are all the ideals that are shaped through trying to fit scriptures into our doctrine.
Sometimes I call that cultic.

So does anyone really start off on a blank slate where culture, and religions haven't first subdued them?

What I've learned, and I'm sure I'm not there yet is to remain in the teachings of Christ.

How? One through understanding and the other my own experiences.

If I did not experience life even before I begun to really study passages in the Bible I wouldn't have known how real it was.

My first experience was at least 25 years ago, recall not even knowing anything about life the way I know it now. I said to myself , that I did not want to wait until something bad happened to serve God.

And so I went about religiously seeking what I could do good for my children, read the Bible, prayed, sang songs. Etc

And when I look back God must have been pleased for I felt lifted in my body while still in it. I had an unexplainable Joy.

So having experienced life you know it exist.
And definitely know when you don't have it anymore. Did I know anything about God's promises? No

I said that to say that God has a way of teaching anybody He wants, to remain in Him.

Yes the promises are in Christ.
But I do sometimes wonder if one just happens to do what is in the kingdom do they experience it.


But know this that God is no respecter of person anyone that does righteous, according to Peter is acceptable to God.

So the real answer, is to teach what matters and all esle like false doctrine will dissipate.

So again what would Jesus rather have sinlessness or Trusting Him?

 

[Hopeful 2]

I like this statement by Willard:

"In vain do we try to change peoples’ heart or character by ‘moving’ them to do things in ways that bypass their understanding."

Then the answer?- bring one to understanding

There are doctrines and there are doctrines of man.

Then there are all the ideals that are shaped through trying to fit scriptures into our doctrine.
Sometimes I call that cultic.

So does anyone really start off on a blank slate where culture, and religions haven't first subdued them?

What I've learned, and I'm sure I'm not there yet is to remain in the teachings of Christ.

How? One through understanding and the other my own experiences.

If I did not experience life even before I begun to really study passages in the Bible I wouldn't have known how real it was.

My first experience was at least 25 years ago, recall not even knowing anything about life the way I know it now. I said to myself , that I did not want to wait until something bad happened to serve God.

And so I went about religiously seeking what I could do good for my children, read the Bible, prayed, sang songs. Etc

And when I look back God must have been pleased for I felt lifted in my body while still in it. I had an unexplainable Joy.

So having experienced life you know it exist.
And definitely know when you don't have it anymore. Did I know anything about God's promises? No

I said that to say that God has a way of teaching anybody He wants, to remain in Him.

Yes the promises are in Christ.
But I do sometimes wonder if one just happens to do what is in the kingdom do they experience it.


But know this that God is no respecter of person anyone that does righteous, according to Peter is acceptable to God.

So the real answer, is to teach what matters and all esle like false doctrine will dissipate.

So again what would Jesus rather have sinlessness or Trusting Him?

If one trusts Him, (the One who says sinners will not inherit eternal life), I vote for sinless/obedience.

 

[RBDERRICK]

Rinans 5:12

I believe this order-
1. regenerated/Justified - position
2. Sanctified- experimental
3. Glorified

Perfect example of experimental religion.

Man saving himself by his own faith alone, partial cleaning of his own life, and glorifying himself by his own doctrine.

God doesn't save from the guilt of sinning, while people are sinning. He's the One condemning their sinful deeds.

God saves from the sinning, so there is no guilty deeds to judge.

One needs to believe who Jesus is with intent to follow to receive Holy Spirit

Not possible without first repenting of sinning God's way.

God only gives the saving faith and new heart of His own Son, to them that repent of all their sins and trespasses for Jesus' sake.

 

[Corinth77777]

Perfect example

I believe one is regenerated/Justified positionally

Once one receives the Spirit they can obey it- sanctification

And The end result Glorification

So Righteousness is not merely imputed, but imparted.
TITUS 2:11 &
2 cor 5:21

 

[Corinth77777]

I believe one is regenerated/Justified positionally

Once one receives the Spirit they can obey it- sanctification

And The end result Glorification

So Righteousness is not merely imputed, but imparted.
TITUS 2:11 &
2 cor 5:21

I can't say, everything I don't mean, or do mean by what I write.

But why do I believe regeneration is one of the first parts of Deliverence, ( salvation)?

Regeneration/born with new life from above
1. Because- no one seeks after God with out the intervention of God.
2. Ephesians tells us we we were dead in trespasses and sin. But next:
3. We were quickened togetherness with Christ-grace are we saved
4. We are not to grieve the Holy Spirit whom we have been sealed with. The Spirit is an earnest deposit.
5. If He has reconciled us by His death, How much more will we be saved by His life.
6. Why I say We receive the Spirit when we believe with intent to follow- We are saved by believing who Jesus is. Abraham was imputed righteousness when He believed God. Jesus asked Peter who He was- :The son of the living God," he said- flesh and blood did not reveal that to Him but His father in heaven.

.....
Next is Sanctification
With the Spirit- We can walk by the Spirit.
If by the Spirit you put away the deeds of the flesh you shall live

The Spirit will teach you, convict of sin, lead you into truth. The spirit is the helper.

And 2 Peter 1:3 says, “His divine power has granted to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of him who called us to his own glory and excellence.

We are to be transformed by the renewing of our mind.

2nd Timothy 2:21
21 Those who cleanse themselves from the latter will be instruments for special purposes, made holy, useful to the Master and prepared to do any good work.


EPH 5:8-12
For ye were sometimes darkness, but now ye are light in the Lord. Walk as children of light


So this is how I see it.

We are given the Spirit- as Christ had a Spirit

This Spirit makes us sons of God

We are to make are call and elect sure by walking by the Spirit

As we walk by the Spirit we can come into the fullness- seeing that Christ resurrected, resurrection power.

No one does anything good without God.
He says take my yoke upon you. Hebrews tell them to labor to enter His rest. Because then they would cease from their own work.

God is not the God of the dead but the living.
...........
And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day. John 6:40

 

[RBDERRICK]

I believe one is regenerated/Justified positionally

Once one receives the Spirit they can obey it- sanctification

Once one repents of obeying the spirit of the world for Jesus sake, one recives the Spirit of Christ to obey God alone.

Without repenting of disobeying God, no man is given the faith nor Spirit of Christ to obey Him.

Why not? Because they don't desire to. They still lust for their pleasures of sin.

God doesn't pour His Spirit into an old bag full of holes.

Matthew
{9:17} Neither do men put new wine into old bottles: else the bottles break, and the wine runneth out, and the bottles perish: but they put new wine into new bottles, and both are preserved.

So Righteousness is not merely imputed, but imparted.
TITUS 2:11 &
2 cor 5:21

God's righteousness is done.

As with His faith and Spirit, God does not pour His righteousness into anyone not repented of doing unrighteousness against Him.

1 John
{2:29} If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one that doeth righteousness is born of him. {3:7} Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

 

[RBDERRICK]

I can't say, everything I don't mean, or do mean by what I write.

But why do I believe regeneration is one of the first parts of Deliverence, ( salvation)?

Regeneration/born with new life from above
1. Because- no one seeks after God with out the intervention of God.
2. Ephesians tells us we we were dead in trespasses and sin. But next:
3. We were quickened togetherness with Christ-grace are we saved
4. We are not to grieve the Holy Spirit whom we have been sealed with. The Spirit is an earnest deposit.
5. If He has reconciled us by His death, How much more will we be saved by His life.
6. Why I say We receive the Spirit when we believe with intent to follow- We are saved by believing who Jesus is. Abraham was imputed righteousness when He believed God. Jesus asked Peter who He was- :The son of the living God," he said- flesh and blood did not reveal that to Him but His father in heaven.

.....
Next is Sanctification
With the Spirit- We can walk by the Spirit.
If by the Spirit you put away the deeds of the flesh you shall live

The Spirit will teach you, convict of sin, lead you into truth. The spirit is the helper.

And 2 Peter 1:3 says, “His divine power has granted to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of him who called us to his own glory and excellence.

We are to be transformed by the renewing of our mind.

2nd Timothy 2:21
21 Those who cleanse themselves from the latter will be instruments for special purposes, made holy, useful to the Master and prepared to do any good work.


EPH 5:8-12
For ye were sometimes darkness, but now ye are light in the Lord. Walk as children of light


So this is how I see it.

We are given the Spirit- as Christ had a Spirit

This Spirit makes us sons of God

We are to make are call and elect sure by walking by the Spirit

As we walk by the Spirit we can come into the fullness- seeing that Christ resurrected, resurrection power.

No one does anything good without God.
He says take my yoke upon you. Hebrews tell them to labor to enter His rest. Because then they would cease from their own work.

God is not the God of the dead but the living.
...........
And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day. John 6:40

Don't see anything about repenting from sinning, to believe God from the heart and doing His righteousness.

So long as repentance from dead works is bypassed for salvation by faith alone, then it's just more of man's own faith, sanctification, and religion alone. Learning to sin less than before, is not growing in the pure religion of Jesus Christ.

2 Peter
{1:3} According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that [pertain] unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue: {1:4} Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

All the promises of God's gospel of whole repentance unto salvation, are made void by man's gospel of salvation unto half-hearted repentance.

Sinning less is certainly better than before, and has certain benefits in this life, but it always falls short of sinning no more unto everlasting life.

John
{5:14} Afterward Jesus findeth him in the temple, and said unto him, Behold, thou art made whole: sin no more, lest a worse thing come unto thee.

1 Cor
{15:34} Awake to righteousness, and sin not;

1 John
{2:1} My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not.

No matter how many ways man tries to sanctify himself with less sinning, it is always still the same old sinful way of man, and will never be the only true way to the Father in heaven by Jesus Christ:

Isaiah
{55:8} For my thoughts [are] not your thoughts, neither [are] your ways my ways, saith the LORD. {55:9} For [as] the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.

Rev
{13:18} Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number [is] Six hundred threescore [and] six.

 

[Corinth77777]

Don't see anything about repenting from sinning, to believe God from the heart and doing His righteousness.

Probably because :
"can't say, everything I don't mean, or do mean by what I write."

Probably because :
"But why do I believe regeneration is one of the first parts of Deliverence, ( salvation)?"

And probably mostly: why should I write what you already should know. And because I'm not trying to read your mind to write from it.

So long as repentance from dead works is bypassedfor salvation by faith alone, then it's just more of man's own faith, sanctification, and religion alone. Learning tosin less than before, is not growing in the pure religion of Jesus Christ.

2Peter
{:3} According as his divine ings that [pertain] unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue: {1:4} Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

All the promises of God's gospel of whole repentance unto salvation, are made void by man's gospel of salvation unto half-hearted repentance.

Sinning less is certainly better than before, and has certain benefits in this life, but it always falls short of sinning no more unto everlasting life.

John
{5:14} Afterward Jesus findeth him in the temple, and said unto him, Behold, thou art made whole: sin no more, lest a worse thing come unto thee.

1 Cor
{15:34} Awake to righteousness, and sin not;

1 John
{2:1} My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not.

No matter how many ways man tries to sanctify himself with less sinning, it is always still the same old sinful way of man, and will never be the only true way to the Father in heaven by Jesus Christ:

Isaiah
{55:8} For my thoughts [are] not your thoughts, neither [are] your ways my ways, saith the LORD. {55:9} For [as] the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.

Rev
{13:18} Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number [is] Six hundred threescore [and] six.

 

[RBDERRICK]

"In vain do we try to change peoples’ heart or character by ‘moving’ them to do things in ways that bypass their understanding."

Then the answer?- bring one to understanding

Ah yes, The lovely long and winding road of bringing sinners to 'understanding', rather than repentance.

Mark
{2:17} When Jesus heard [it,] he saith unto them, They that are whole have no need of the physician, but they that are sick: I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

Eph
{4:28} Let him that stole steal no more: but rather let him labour, working with [his] hands the thing which is good, that he may have to give to him that needeth.
Sounds pretty simple to me. Repent, stop the trespassing, and do good.
Here's what God says to understand:

Job
{28:28} And unto man he said, Behold, the fear of the Lord, that [is] wisdom; and to depart from evil [is] understanding.

Understanding without obdience, is as faith alone without works: It's only agreeing with the truth, without doing it.

James
{1:22} But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.

Unrepentant sinners don't 'understand' God's plain words, because they don't want to repent.

 

[RBDERRICK]

There are doctrines and there are doctrines of man.

Doctrine of Christ is simple and plain for any child to understand.

Acts
{3:19} Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;

Unrepentant man's doctrine however, says ceasing sinning is not necessary to be saved by God.

Then there are all the ideals that are shaped through trying to fit scriptures into our doctrine.
Sometimes I call that cultic.

So does anyone really start off on a blank slate where culture, and religions haven't first subdued them?

What I've learned, and I'm sure I'm not there yet is to remain in the teachings of Christ.

How? One through understanding and the other my own experiences.

If I did not experience life even before I begun to really study passages in the Bible I wouldn't have known how real it was.

My first experience was at least 25 years ago, recall not even knowing anything about life the way I know it now. I said to myself , that I did not want to wait until something bad happened to serve God.

And so I went about religiously seeking what I could do good for my children, read the Bible, prayed, sang songs. Etc

And when I look back God must have been pleased for I felt lifted in my body while still in it. I had an unexplainable Joy.

So having experienced life you know it exist.
And definitely know when you don't have it anymore. Did I know anything about God's promises? No

I said that to say that God has a way of teaching anybody He wants, to remain in Him.

Yes the promises are in Christ.
But I do sometimes wonder if one just happens to do what is in the kingdom do they experience it.


But know this that God is no respecter of person anyone that does righteous, according to Peter is acceptable to God.

So the real answer, is to teach what matters and all esle like false doctrine will dissipate.

And they love to take forever to show just how to 'understand' that bit of faith alone wizardry.

What we see here, is a perfect example of how 'bringing one to understanding', is how philosophy of man replaces commandment of God, with ideological theology that repents not.

1 Cor
{2:4} And my speech and my preaching [was] not with enticing words of man’s wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power: {2:5} That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.

Romans
{16:17} Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them. {16:18} For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple. {16:19} For your obedience is come abroad unto all [men.]

It's the obedience of the saints that is honored by God and man, not the 'understanding' of the disobedient.

Luke
{2:52} And Jesus increased in wisdom and stature, and in favour with God and man.

Only the unrepentant want to hear about how to 'understand', that repentance and obedience are not 'really' necessary to be justified with God.

Afteall, who needs simple godly repentance and obedience, when you have such a vast 'understanding' about being justified by one's own faith alone?

So again what would Jesus rather have sinlessness or Trusting Him?

And, this is one for the record books. In all our understanding getting, let's get to pondering the grand question:

Would Jesus rather have us obeying God, or trusting Him. As though godly obedience and trust were ever either/or.

1 Tim
{6:3} If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, [even] the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness; {6:4} He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings,
Some unrepentant sinners would rather be drawn into a dissertation on 'understanding', rather than just be commanded to stop the stealing already. That's much too offensive to the sensitivities of the disobedient, who really, really would like to 'understand' exactly why.

Collosians
{2:8} Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. {2:9}

2 Tim
{2:16} But shun profane [and] vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness. {2:17} And their word will eat as doth a canker: of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus;
And so we see the nature of teaching idealized 'understanding' over plain obedience: The great 'understanding' of faith aloners, is they would much rather be 'understanding' God's trust, than just be obeying His spoken will.

Who needs obedience, when you have trust and honor among thieves?


So, back to the subject at hand: The plain understanding of 1 John 1, is that no one is walking in the light of Jesus Christ, while also doing unrighteous works of darkness.

And no amount of sinful man's doctrinal 'understanding' about how their own faith alone can save them, will ever change the truth of God's righteous judgment: He always condemns the sins and trespasses of the world against Him.

And righteous God will not show any respect of any person's 'understanding' about it.

Rev
{13:18} Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number [is] Six hundred threescore six.

 

[Free]

Doctrine of Christ is simple and plain for any child to understand.

It is.

Unrepentant man's doctrine however, says ceasing sinning is not necessary to be saved by God.




What we see here, is a perfect example of how 'bringing one to understanding', is how philosophy of man replaces commandment of God, with ideological theology that repents not.



Only the unrepentant want to hear about how to 'understand', that repentance and obedience are not 'really' necessary to be justified with God.

Afteall, who needs simple godly repentance and obedience, when you have such a vast 'understanding' about being justified by one's own faith alone?



Would Jesus rather have us obeying God, or trusting Him. As though godly obedience and trust were ever either/or.


And so we see the nature of teaching idealized 'understanding' over plain obedience: The great 'understanding' of faith aloners, is they would much rather be 'understanding' God's trust, than just be obeying His spoken will.

Who needs obedience, when you have trust and honor among thieves?


And no amount of sinful man's doctrinal 'understanding' about how their own faith alone can save them,

Based on all these statements, it is evident that you really don’t understand the position that everyone has been stating. Are you trying to learn what others believe or are you only interested in telling others that their position is wrong?

Not a single person in any of these discussions is saying that there is no need for repentance. Not one. And, I haven’t seen a single person deny that we are to obey Christ.

What everyone is saying is that the Bible is absolutely unequivocal in teaching that works do not justify anyone. Ever. Good works are evidence of faith; we obey Christ because we are justified.

Rom 3:21 But now the righteousness of God has been manifested apart from the law, although the Law and the Prophets bear witness to it—
Rom 3:22 the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe. For there is no distinction:
Rom 3:23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,
Rom 3:24 and are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus,
Rom 3:25 whom God put forward as a propitiation by his blood, to be received by faith. This was to show God's righteousness, because in his divine forbearance he had passed over former sins.
Rom 3:26 It was to show his righteousness at the present time, so that he might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.
Rom 3:27 Then what becomes of our boasting? It is excluded. By what kind of law? By a law of works? No, but by the law of faith.
Rom 3:28 For we hold that one is justified by faith apart from works of the law.
Rom 3:29 Or is God the God of Jews only? Is he not the God of Gentiles also? Yes, of Gentiles also,
Rom 3:30 since God is one—who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith.

Rom 5:15 But the free gift is not like the trespass. For if many died through one man's trespass, much more have the grace of God and the free gift by the grace of that one man Jesus Christ abounded for many.
Rom 5:16 And the free gift is not like the result of that one man's sin. For the judgment following one trespass brought condemnation, but the free gift following many trespasses brought justification.
Rom 5:17 For if, because of one man's trespass, death reigned through that one man, much more will those who receive the abundance of grace and the free gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man Jesus Christ.
Rom 5:18 Therefore, as one trespass led to condemnation for all men, so one act of righteousness leads to justification and life for all men.
Rom 5:19 For as by the one man's disobedience the many were made sinners, so by the one man's obedience the many will be made righteous.

Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Rom 10:9 because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.
Rom 10:10 For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved.

Gal 2:16 yet we know that a person is not justified by works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, so we also have believed in Christ Jesus, in order to be justified by faith in Christ and not by works of the law, because by works of the law no one will be justified.

Gal 3:8 And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand to Abraham, saying, “In you shall all the nations be blessed.”
Gal 3:9 So then, those who are of faith are blessed along with Abraham, the man of faith.
…
Gal 3:24 So then, the law was our guardian until Christ came, in order that we might be justified by faith.
Gal 3:25 But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian,
Gal 3:26 for in Christ Jesus you are all sons of God, through faith.

Eph 2:4 But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us,
Eph 2:5 even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved—
Eph 2:6 and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus,
Eph 2:7 so that in the coming ages he might show the immeasurable riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus.
Eph 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,
Eph 2:9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast.

Tit 3:4 But when the goodness and loving kindness of God our Savior appeared,
Tit 3:5 he saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit,
Tit 3:6 whom he poured out on us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior,
Tit 3:7 so that being justified by his grace we might become heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

(All ESV.)

No one is justified by either works of the law or works of righteousness, in part or in whole. That is a false gospel. We are justified by grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone.

 

[Hopeful 2]

It is.


Based on all these statements, it is evident that you really don’t understand the position that everyone has been stating. Are you trying to learn what others believe or are you only interested in telling others that their position is wrong?

Not a single person in any of these discussions is saying that there is no need for repentance. Not one. And, I haven’t seen a single person deny that we are to obey Christ.

What everyone is saying is that the Bible is absolutely unequivocal in teaching that works do not justify anyone. Ever. Good works are evidence of faith; we obey Christ because we are justified.

I guess, then, that evil works are evidence of no faith or justification.

 

[Free]

I guess, then, that evil works are evidence of no faith or justification.

That would depend on what you mean by “evil works,” who is doing them, why they’re doing them, and whether or not they’re unrepentant.

 

[Hopeful 2]

That would depend on what you mean by “evil works,”

Sin..."All unrighteousness is sin:..." (1 John 5:17)

who is doing them,

The supposedly faithful and supposedly justified.

why they’re doing them,

No sin is justifiable.

and whether or not they’re unrepentant.

The sin shows they have not repented of sin.

Evil works come from evil people.

 

[Free]

Sin..."All unrighteousness is sin:..." (1 John 5:17)

The supposedly faithful and supposedly justified.

No sin is justifiable.

The sin shows they have not repented of sin.

Evil works come from evil people.

Let’s not clog up this discussion and leave your heresy out of it. The topic is that works don’t justify anyone. Justification is by grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone.

 

[Hopeful 2]

Let’s not clog up this discussion and leave your heresy out of it.

The God given ability to obey God, all the time, is not a heresy.

The topic is that works don’t justify anyone. Justification is by grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone.

The works of the Law will not profit anyone.
But neither will committing sin profit anyone.
Men can't say they have faith, then do unfaithful deeds.

 

[Free]

The God given ability to obey God, all the time, is not a heresy.

The works of the Law will not profit anyone.
But neither will committing sin profit anyone.
Men can't say they have faith, then do unfaithful deeds.

This is the last thing I will say about your heresy as it’s off topic. Claiming to be without sin means one is self-deceived, doesn’t have the truth, makes God a liar, and doesn’t have his word in them (1 John 1:8, 10). Now, please, either address the topic or go to one of your old threads to discuss your personal beliefs.

 

[Hopeful 2]

This is the last thing I will say about your heresy as it’s off topic. Claiming to be without sin means one is self-deceived, doesn’t have the truth, makes God a liar, and doesn’t have his word in them (1 John 1:8, 10). Now, please, either address the topic or go to one of your old threads to discuss your personal beliefs.

It is on topic, as it agrees with RBDERRICK's post #112..."Unrepentant man's doctrine however, says ceasing sinning is not necessary to be saved by God."
Which way does YOUR doctrine go ?
Is ceasing sinning necessary to be saved by God...or not ?
I say it is necessary, and that God has graciously provided the ways and means of accomplishing it, to His glory.