Agreed.
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Guest, Join Papa Zoom today for some uplifting biblical encouragement! --> Daily Verses
1 John 1: Against self-justifying doctrine
- Thread starter RBDERRICK
- Start date
Speaking of misquoting.
Eph 2:4 But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us,
Eph 2:5 even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved—
Eph 2:6 and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus,
Eph 2:7 so that in the coming ages he might show the immeasurable riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus.
Eph 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,
Eph 2:9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast.
Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them. (ESV)
First, it cannot be anymore clear that Paul says believers are saved by grace through faith. Second, it is fully supported by the context. There is nothing in the context which makes that a misquote or changes the wording; that is the wording. Third, you are correct that it does not finish the whole verse. The rest of the verse makes the point even stronger--salvation by grace through faith "is not of your own doing; it is the gift of God." By definition, a gift is something unmerited; it is free. Fourth, the next verse supports that further by explicitly stating that salvation by grace through faith is "not a result of works." Again, it is a gift of God, so of course it cannot be a result of works.
Fifth, nowhere is it stated "The salvation and justification of God is not of any works that man can boast of." That is a prime example of changing the wording. The wording clearly is "not a result of works, so that no one may boast." Why? Because it is a gift, but also because that would mean Christ's blood is insufficient to save; that God himself coming in human flesh--an infinite sacrifice--wasn't enough to save. How can finite human works add to the infinite sacrifice of God himself so as to procure salvation?
The entire context is that salvation is a free gift of God by his grace, through faith, and absolutely not a result of works. If it was by works, then by definition it cannot be a gift:
Rom 3:23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,
Rom 3:24 and are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus,
Rom 3:25 whom God put forward as a propitiation by his blood, to be received by faith. This was to show God's righteousness, because in his divine forbearance he had passed over former sins. (ESV)
Rom 4:1 What then shall we say was gained by Abraham, our forefather according to the flesh?
Rom 4:2 For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God.
Rom 4:3 For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness.”
Rom 4:4 Now to the one who works, his wages are not counted as a gift but as his due.
Rom 4:5 And to the one who does not work but believes in him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted as righteousness, (ESV)
Rom 5:15 But the free gift is not like the trespass. For if many died through one man's trespass, much more have the grace of God and the free gift by the grace of that one man Jesus Christ abounded for many.
Rom 5:16 And the free gift is not like the result of that one man's sin. For the judgment following one trespass brought condemnation, but the free gift following many trespasses brought justification.
Rom 5:18 Therefore, as one trespass led to condemnation for all men, so one act of righteousness leads to justification and life for all men.
Rom 5:19 For as by the one man's disobedience the many were made sinners, so by the one man's obedience the many will be made righteous. (ESV)
Rom 6:11 So you also must consider yourselves dead to sin and alive to God in Christ Jesus.
Rom 6:12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, to make you obey its passions.
Rom 6:13 Do not present your members to sin as instruments for unrighteousness, but present yourselves to God as those who have been brought from death to life, and your members to God as instruments for righteousness.
Rom 6:14 For sin will have no dominion over you, since you are not under law but under grace.
Rom 6:15 What then? Are we to sin because we are not under law but under grace? By no means!
Rom 6:16 Do you not know that if you present yourselves to anyone as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin, which leads to death, or of obedience, which leads to righteousness?
Rom 6:17 But thanks be to God, that you who were once slaves of sin have become obedient from the heart to the standard of teaching to which you were committed,
Rom 6:18 and, having been set free from sin, have become slaves of righteousness.
Rom 6:19 I am speaking in human terms, because of your natural limitations. For just as you once presented your members as slaves to impurity and to lawlessness leading to more lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves to righteousness leading to sanctification.
Rom 6:20 For when you were slaves of sin, you were free in regard to righteousness.
Rom 6:21 But what fruit were you getting at that time from the things of which you are now ashamed? For the end of those things is death.
Rom 6:22 But now that you have been set free from sin and have become slaves of God, the fruit you get leads to sanctification and its end, eternal life.
Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. (ESV)
Notice that unbelievers are "slaves to sin" and believers are "slaves to God." Yet, Paul sees it necessary to 1) command the believers to "not present your members to sin as instruments for unrighteousness," and 2) command the believers to "present . . . your members to God as instruments for righteousness," and "present your members as slaves to righteousness." Why? because presenting one's members as slaves to righteousness leads to sanctification.
Your position contradicts that at every point, particularly that true believers are fully sanctified (holy) when they are saved. If that was true, then Paul would neither have to command believers to "not present [their] members to sin as instruments for unrighteousness," nor to "present your members as slaves to righteousness." So while sin no longer has dominion over believers, it is no longer our master, we still struggle in presenting our members as slaves to sin. But, as we continue to present our members as slaves to righteousness, we grow in holiness, sinning less and less as we mature in the faith.
On the contrary, not only have I just given a passage which does, there is no verse which states that works are necessary for salvation. To even suggest such is to completely undermine the gospel and the death of Christ for our sins.
You've got the cart before the horse. Being justified is the first step in and assurance of salvation; it is to be declared righteous. Only then can we do good works with the help of the Holy Spirit--once we are justified.
Yes, he most certainly does, as I've adequately shown with Scripture.
You misunderstand judgement about works. Everyone will appear before the judgement seat of Christ and will be first and foremost judged on whether or not their names are in the book of life. Those whose names are in the book will be with God forever, and those whose names are not there are thrown into the lake of fire.
Yet, both believers and unbelievers will have their works judged. For believers, it will determine the level of reward (1 Cor 3:12-15); for unbelievers it will determine the level of punishment (Luke 12:46-48).
I don't understand what you're saying here.
The biblical position is:
Eph 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,
Eph 2:9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast. (ESV)
Can a person who is not in Christ ever be obedient to God? If so, in what way?
What is an “unrepented Christian sinner”? Perhaps we should start at the beginning: What is a Christian?
Remember, John says that any believer, including himself, who says they have no sin is self-deceived, doesn’t have the truth, makes God a liar, and doesn’t have his word in them (1 John 1:8, 10).
Yes, they can.
But their reasons to do so have nothing to do with God or Jesus.
People don't rob banks, because they don't want to go to jail.
They don't steel from where they work, for fear of losing a job.
They don't smoke or do other drugs, because they want to keep their body healthy.
So, how does God view their obedience? Are they obedient because God commands those things, or do they happen to obey some of God’s commands for selfish reasons? Or is there another reason?
Their obedience is only in the perception of some others.
It is only self-serving.
So, is it really obedience then?
It is only perceived as obedience.
Even men with vile hearts donate to charity.
RBDERRICK
Supporter
Not since you brought in your gospel of being saved faith alone, with your salvation set apart from your own works.
The subject is about believers saying they are walking in the light, while doing their own dead works of darkness.
The only ones who say that, are them that also preach the gospel of one's own faith alone unto salvation, that is set apart from the works they do, including unrighteous works of the flesh.
Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
Then it's anti your gospel and christ then.
For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.
And not only works, but also our words, which are judged as works by God.
I'll stick with God's gospel in James 2, as well as in Eph 2, as well as in Acts 2:
Sinners must repent of all their sins and trespasses for Jesus' sake, to be converted to God and saved by His grace, and justified by doing only His works through Jesus Christ, and no more doing our own works to boast of.
Yes. Technically you are correct. You did not specifically include yourself as a wilful unrepented sinner. Thnak you for the correction, which leads to more clarification.
You certainly do include yourself as a sinful believer, since you preach the gospel of all believers still sinning.
Therefore, are you now saying that when you do sin, that it's not unrepented sin? Nor wilfull?
What then do you call it, when you do sin again and disobey the Lord?
Repented sinning? Unwillful sinning?
God delares no man righteous, while doing unrighteousness against Him.
Little children, let no man deceive you: he that is doing righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. 1Jo 3:7
The only ones God declares righteous are the righteous now doing His righteousness by His faith.
Therefore the ungodly shall not stand in the judgment, nor sinners in the congregation of the righteous. For the LORD knoweth the way of the righteous: but the way of the ungodly shall perish. Psa 1:5-6
Exactly. Doing the works of God in Christ Jesus, are the only works justified by Christ.
Progressive sanctification of unrepented sinners, that are still doing their own works by their own will, are the works of man's righteousness by 'sinning less'. Sinning less is not the pure religion justified by Jesus Christ.
God's commandment is for all people everywhere to repent of all our sins and trespasses with a whole heart. The good news is that if we do so for Jesus' sake, He gives us a whole new heart and life pleasing to God.
Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, 2Co 5:17-18
Double heartedness to only sin less than before, is the manner of all progressivism in religious society.
And yet for all this her treacherous sister Judah hath not turned unto me with her whole heart, but feignedly, saith the LORD. Jer 3:10
No one being obedient to God, is disobeying God. Which is the same error exposed in 1 John 1, where no one can be walking in the light with Christ Jesus, while doing dead works of darkness.
And once again, this is another side of error exposed in 1 John 1: No one is growing in holiness of the Lord, while doing unholiness against the Lord.
Here are the ancilliaries to saying we can be walking in the light of Christ, while doing our own dead works of darkness:
No one being obedient to God, is disobeying God. No one is righteous with the Lord, that is doing unrighteousness against Him.
And another I believe you've taught is: No one is uncondemned by the Lord, that is doing works condemned by the Lord.
And yet another lie exposed with 1 John 1, is that no one can be inwardly pure, while outwardly corrupt.
Only presently obedient righteous sons of God, are growing in the righteousness of Jesus Christ.
As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him: Rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith, as ye have been taught, abounding therein with thanksgiving. Col 2:7
Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall: Wherefore I will not be negligent to put you always in remembrance of these things, though ye know them, and be established in the present truth. 2Pe 1:11-12
Only if you say your continued sinning is neither wilfull, nor unrepented.
If you call your continued sinning something else, then I will amend your doctrine accordingly.
That includes if you call your gospel of gradual sanctification from sinning, something other than 'progressive'.
I have no problem at all with using your own chosen words for your own gospel message.
I only use God's chosen words from the Bible, to preach my gospel message:
If any person will repent with a whole heart from all our sins and trespasses for Jesus' sake, then God will give that person the promised new faith, heart, and life of Jesus Christ. With all things now being believed, spoken, and done are of God, and nothing of the devil.
Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for the prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in me. Jhn 14:30
Cast away from you all your transgressions, whereby ye have transgressed; and make you a new heart and a new spirit: for why will ye die, O house of Israel?
Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, 2Co 5:17-18
RBDERRICK
Supporter
Changing a believer's translation to something else just as accurate, is not changing God's words given by God to His prophets and apsotles.
I translate just as accurately, "That no works that any man can boast of."
You say, "Not a result of works, so that no one may boast." Which is not accurate, but inserts words God never said.
My retranslation includes Scripture delcaring the difference between the works of man's own will, that He can boast of, and the works of God through Christ Jesus, that only gives God the glory.
Your retranslation contradicts Scripture declaring man is justified by works, and not by faith alone.
We are justified only the works of God we do in Christ Jesus, that no man can boast of, and not of any works man does without Christ, which man can glory in.
True, to them that do repent after a godly sort from our own dead works.
I also agree with Scriptural adoption, where other Scripture can be included in any Scripture, in order to preach the whole doctrine of Christ from all the Bible.
You do so correctly by saying, "We are saved (justified) by grace through faith..." That can be extended to, "We (that repent) are saved (justified) by grace through faith..." Both are doctrinally correct from other Scripture of truth.
Jesus' blood today is sufficient to forgive all past sinning.
It's not for covering present sinning, like that of a bull or goat.
Same with the grace of God. God's grace is sure help in time of temptation not to sin. Sinful man's grace is cover himself while sinning.
He that covereth his sins shall not prosper: but whoso confesseth and forsaketh them shall have mercy. Pro 28:13
Works of man's own will are not added to any works of Christ, which is double heartedness.
Only the works of Christ which we do through Him, are justified by God.
Your rejection aside, I've given the Scriptures saying so.
So long as there are confessing believers, that are not doing so with only half-hearted repentance, then God still commands to do so.
It's also an ongoing command to them which have done so whole-heartedly:
A good start requires a good finish, to win the race and obtain the crown of life.
I don't struggle to present myself slave to sin. Neither do I struggle and fail to present myself obedient to Christ.
Even when I was double hearted with God, I never never justified it by doctrine made for that purpose. And I certainly never accused Paul of being so for life. And I never even heard of anyone making Paul the worst of sinners, until hearing it from extremist self-justifiers.
Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ; As obedient children, not fashioning yourselves according to the former lusts in your ignorance:
But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation; Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.
And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man's work, pass the time of your sojourning here in fear: 1Pe 1:13-17
False. The translation is purposely corrupted to turn the truth into a lie.
Are saved, or are being saved are correct, both by translation and doctrine.
'Doing' and 'A result' are added, where God never says so to any prophet nor apiostle of His own.
But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies. 2 Peter 2:1
For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. 2Co 11:12-13
Corinth77777
Member
Jesus answered. “No one is good—except God alone
Thanks be to God that changed, after the resurrection of Christ from the dead.
RBDERRICK
Supporter
I don't go in endless circles.
I've asked several direct questions, that you can either answer honestly, or not at all.
When you are sinning again, are you walking in the light with Christ, or in darkness with the world?
When you are doing the same works of the flesh as the unbelievers, are you condemned like them, or not condemned by your sinful works?
This is what 1 John 1 is addressing among Christian believers.
You’re the one who brought it up HERE. And, it isn’t “my gospel,” it is a part of the
Gospel. Works have nothing to do with the gospel, other than to undermine it; no one will ever be justified (saved) by works.
John says that believers sin, as do other NT writers, and none say that one is saved (justified) by works. Works are antithetical to justification and the gospel.
You will never come to a proper understanding if you take things out of context by ignoring other relevant passages. I have already given many, including these:
Rom 4:1 What then shall we say was gained by Abraham, our forefather according to the flesh?
Rom 4:2 For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God.
Rom 4:3 For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness.”
Rom 4:4 Now to the one who works, his wages are not counted as a gift but as his due.
Rom 4:5 And to the one who does not work but believes in him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted as righteousness,
…
Rom 4:9 Is this blessing then only for the circumcised, or also for the uncircumcised? For we say that faith was counted to Abraham as righteousness.
Rom 4:10 How then was it counted to him? Was it before or after he had been circumcised? It was not after, but before he was circumcised. (ESV)
Gal 3:5 Does he who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you do so by works of the law, or by hearing with faith—
Gal 3:6 just as Abraham “believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness”?
Gal 3:7 Know then that it is those of faith who are the sons of Abraham.
Gal 3:8 And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand to Abraham, saying, “In you shall all the nations be blessed.”
Gal 3:9 So then, those who are of faith are blessed along with Abraham, the man of faith. (ESV)
Paul clearly states that Abraham was not justified by works, but by faith. Additionally, he clearly states that the Scriptures foresaw “that God would justify the Gentiles by faith.” So, the verse you keep appealing to must be saying something else.
In context, we see that James is talking about works being evidence of one’s faith, not that works save (justify). True faith results in good works but don’t save anyone. Abraham offering up his son is proof of his faith and so vindicate (justify) it. He was justified by faith long before he was willing to offer up Isaac.
So, by taking things out of context, you conflated two different meanings of justification.
Besides, you need to take James 5:15-16 into account:
Jas 5:15 And the prayer of faith will save the one who is sick, and the Lord will raise him up. And if he has committed sins, he will be forgiven.
Jas 5:16 Therefore, confess your sins to one another and pray for one another, that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous person has great power as it is working. (ESV)
James clearly believes that believers sin.
I really don’t want to ask again that you always properly cite Scripture.
Where, exactly, does Peter say in Acts 2 that anyone is justified by works?
If you want to stick to the gospel, as given in James 2, Eph 2, and Acts 2, and everywhere else in the NT, then it is only by grace through faith that one is saved—it is a free gift of God.
Do not misrepresent what others are saying as that is a violation of the ToS.
Please stop using the term gospel incorrectly and so misrepresent what I am saying.
It’s sin.
Again, you’re ignoring much context that I have already given.
We do good works because we are saved; they are evidence of true faith, as Paul and James state.
This has nothing to do with anything I have said.
Of course. But, again, repentance unto salvation and confession of sins are two different things.
And, yet, throughout the NT, many sins of believers and churches are mentioned and addressed. Not to mention that John very clearly stated believers are to continually confess their sins to God for forgiveness and cleansing from all unrighteousness (1 John 1:9), because we have an advocate before the Father (2:1). Any professed believer who claims they are without sin, is self-deceived, doesn’t have the truth, makes God a liar, and doesn’t have his truth in them.
I have no idea what you’re saying here.
I agree, but that is your position, not mine. Of course, you need to define what you mean by “corrupt.”
Of course, when there is obedience. Disobedience slows or stalls growth in righteousness. That is the whole point.
So, why does Paul have to command believers to walk in Christ?
And how is this relevant?
Again, there is no way to come to that conclusion from what I have written.
Except that you use only the words you choose and not the full revelation together, so what you say is out of context.
Of course. There has been no disagreement about this.
Where is that stated in Scripture?
What do these have to do with this discussion?
Again, context. Why did Paul write to the church in Corinth? What other things did he say? Try reading 1 and 2 Corinthians through in one sitting and look at the reasons Paul wrote.
Take note of verses such as 1 Cor 1:10-16, 3:1-3, and 2 Cor 2:5-11.
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Corinth77777
Member
My honest conclusion to all that is said at this point is scriptures. And my Dad's Favorite scripture and song He left us with us. Trust in the Lord with all thy heart, I will trust in the Lord until I die.
If we Trust Him He will make our path strait.
We are saved from the three Ps
The penalty, power, and presence
In this world we are saved from power of sin
11For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, 12 teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world; 13looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ; 14who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works. 15These things speak, and exhort, and rebuke with all authority. Let no man despise thee.
I like how a Seminary teacher put it- Salvation is everyday life we receive from God.
For if, when we were God's enemies, we were reconciled to him through the death of his Son, how much more, having been reconciled, shall we be saved through his life! Not only is this so, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.For if, when we were God's enemies, we were reconciled to him through the death of his Son, how much more, having been reconciled, shall we be saved through his life! Not only is this so, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.
........
4For though he was crucified through weakness, yet he liveth by the power of God. For we also are weak in him, but we shall live with him by the power of God toward you.
5Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates? 6But I trust that ye shall know that we are not reprobates. 7Now I pray to God that ye do no evil; not that we should appear approved, but that ye should do that which is honest, though we be as reprobates. 8For we can do nothing against the truth, but for the truth. 9For we are glad, when we are weak, and ye are strong: and this also we wish, even your perfection. 10Therefore I write these things being absent, lest being present I should use sharpness, according to the power which the Lord hath given me to edification, and not to destruction.
11Finally, brethren, farewell. Be perfect, be of good comfort, be of one mind, live in peace; and the God of love and peace shall be with you. 12Greet one another with an holy kiss. 13All the saints salute you.
14The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the communion of the Holy Ghost, be with you all. Amen.
....
“But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.”
1 John 2
Grow in grace and in the knowledge of our savior Jesus Christ.
Be perfect as your father in Heaven is perfect.
Perfect how? In Love
If your heart convicts you God is greater than your conscience and knows all things.
.....
Side thought-
If one is righteous and walks with God as they say -they will be taken like Enoch and Elijah.
GENESIS 5 KJV
And Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God took him.
Note: question if this is what happens to those who walk with God then wouldn't you think it will happen to anyone that claims they also walk with God?
If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you. [8] Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples. [9] As the Father hath loved me, so have I loved you: continue ye in my love. JOHN 15
Bearing fruit would surely be evidence of a true disciple.
Well here are the fruit of the Spirit:
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. Gal 5
Lets look up meekness-Gentle; tender; free from pride
There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God. For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his. Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief. Heb 4:9
If we Trust Him He will make our path strait.
We are saved from the three Ps
The penalty, power, and presence
In this world we are saved from power of sin
11For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, 12 teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world; 13looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ; 14who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works. 15These things speak, and exhort, and rebuke with all authority. Let no man despise thee.
I like how a Seminary teacher put it- Salvation is everyday life we receive from God.
For if, when we were God's enemies, we were reconciled to him through the death of his Son, how much more, having been reconciled, shall we be saved through his life! Not only is this so, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.For if, when we were God's enemies, we were reconciled to him through the death of his Son, how much more, having been reconciled, shall we be saved through his life! Not only is this so, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.
........
4For though he was crucified through weakness, yet he liveth by the power of God. For we also are weak in him, but we shall live with him by the power of God toward you.
5Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates? 6But I trust that ye shall know that we are not reprobates. 7Now I pray to God that ye do no evil; not that we should appear approved, but that ye should do that which is honest, though we be as reprobates. 8For we can do nothing against the truth, but for the truth. 9For we are glad, when we are weak, and ye are strong: and this also we wish, even your perfection. 10Therefore I write these things being absent, lest being present I should use sharpness, according to the power which the Lord hath given me to edification, and not to destruction.
11Finally, brethren, farewell. Be perfect, be of good comfort, be of one mind, live in peace; and the God of love and peace shall be with you. 12Greet one another with an holy kiss. 13All the saints salute you.
14The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the communion of the Holy Ghost, be with you all. Amen.
....
“But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.”
1 John 2
Grow in grace and in the knowledge of our savior Jesus Christ.
Be perfect as your father in Heaven is perfect.
Perfect how? In Love
If your heart convicts you God is greater than your conscience and knows all things.
.....
Side thought-
If one is righteous and walks with God as they say -they will be taken like Enoch and Elijah.
GENESIS 5 KJV
And Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God took him.
Note: question if this is what happens to those who walk with God then wouldn't you think it will happen to anyone that claims they also walk with God?
If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you. [8] Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples. [9] As the Father hath loved me, so have I loved you: continue ye in my love. JOHN 15
Bearing fruit would surely be evidence of a true disciple.
Well here are the fruit of the Spirit:
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. Gal 5
Lets look up meekness-Gentle; tender; free from pride
There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God. For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his. Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief. Heb 4:9
If only God is good and you claim you're good then wouldnt you be God?
Jesus is God in the flesh
True
It happened to Enoch and Elijah.
It didn't happen to many other righteous people though.
John the Baptist, and Stephen comes to mind.
That list isn't all-inclusive.
Charity isn't even mentioned, but you know how important that was to Paul.
Not to mention being a good driver, or dressing modestly.
LOL, no: just children of God.
You wrote earlier..."11For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, 12 teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world; 13looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ; 14who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works. 15These things speak, and exhort, and rebuke with all authority. Let no man despise thee."
Can't we be purified, and life godly lives, without being gods ?
RBDERRICK
Supporter
This is new. How can any man repent unto salvation, without first acknowledging the sin unto repntance and savation?
Disobeying God stops growth in Christ Jesus.
No one sinning against Christ Jesus, is in Christ Jesus, much less growing in Him.
3Jo 1:11
Beloved, follow not that which is evil, but that which is good. He that is doing good is of God: but he that is doing evil hath not seen God.
2Co 5:17
Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
2Co 5:18
And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ,
And once again, I'll look for your answers here, that have everything to do with 1 John 1:
Are we walkining in the light with Jesus, while sinning again in darkness? This pertains to 1 John 1:6
I say No.
Are we condemn by your works of darkness, as are all them doing unrighteousness? This pertains to 1 John 1:8
I say yes.
How say you?