1 John 1: Against self-justifying doctrine

[Follower Of Christ]

Matthew 27:46, Romans 8:32 and Isaiah 53:4, in my understanding, should shed plenty of light on the mystery of the death of Christ on the cross.

 

[Hopeful 2]

Then Jesus said to those Jews who believed Him, “If you abide in My word, you are My disciples indeed. 32 And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.”
They answered Him, “We are Abraham’s descendants, and have never been in bondage to anyone. How can You say, ‘You will be made free’?”
Jesus answered them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, whoever commits sin is a slave of sin. 35 And a slave does not abide in the house forever, but a son abides forever. Therefore if the Son makes you free, you shall be free indeed. John 8:31-36

I guess that is a "yes" to my question regarding your understanding that the truth can free us from committing sin.

The key to walking in the light, is confessing your sin.

The key to walking in the light is being free from sin.

Can you show from the scriptures, an apostle that was sinless... who claims they were sinless like you claim you are sinless.

I don't beleive an apostle's faith was ever doubted enough for any of them to be asked such a question, so no.
Do you feel that an apostle would require more from us than what they adhered to ?
Paul wrote...“Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
For he that is dead is freed from sin.” (Rom. 6:6-7)
"Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness." (Rom 6:18)
"But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life." (Rom 6:22)
"Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame." (1 Cor 15:34)
Four references to sinless obedience to God by followers of Christ.

Peter wrote..."But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation;
Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy." (1 Peter 1:15-16)
"Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;" (1 Peter 4:1)
"According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:
Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust." (2 Peter 1:3-4)
“Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:" (2 Peter 1:10)
Four more references to perfect obedience.

Would the apostles demand more from us that what was demanded of themselves ?

 

[JLB]

I guess that is a "yes" to my question regarding your understanding that the truth can free us from committing sin.

No the truth can't set us free from committing sin.

 

[Hopeful 2]

It appears from you and others that not knowing God's Will, His Word, and His Plan, even the simple parts,
was meant to be revealed here. If I or anyone else who knows had posted the simple Bible Answer,
things would not have been revealed.

Thanks be to God, I know His will.

 

[Hopeful 2]

No the truth can't set us free from committing sin.

You don't believe Jesus ?
He did say..."the truth shall make you free.... Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin." (John 8:32,34)
You can be freed from service to sin !
I believe Jesus.

 

[JLB]

He did say..."the truth shall make you free....

No He didn't.

Here is what Jesus said -

• And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free

Then Jesus said to those Jews who believed Him, “If you abide in My word, you are My disciples indeed. And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.” John 8:31-32

• If you abide in My word, you are My disciples indeed.

 

[JLB]

You can be freed from service to sin !

Of course we can be free from the service to sin, however we must by the Spirit, put to death the deeds of sin that dwells in our flesh.

Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts. And do not present your members as instruments of unrighteousness to sin, but present yourselves to God as being alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God. Romans 6:12-13


Thank God while we mature and learn how to overcome the sinful tendencies that emanate from our flesh, we can confess our sins and be forgiven and cleansed.


If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us. 1 John 1:8-10


Do you confess your sins, so as to be forgiven and cleansed?




JLB

 

[RBDERRICK]

If someone is really born of God's seed, they cannot commit sin.

When we speak of what others are promoting, it doesn't mean we agree with it.

No son born of God is committing sin, and cannot sin while a son of God. If sons disobey God, they bastardize the faith of God, and are no more obedient sons but rebellious children of disobedience.

Obedient sons can become disobedient prodigal rebels betraying, but are now dead to God and must confess and repent to be alive sons again:

For this my son was dead, and is alive again; he was lost, and is found. And they began to be merry.

Luk 15:24
For this my son was dead, and is alive again; he was lost, and is found. And they began to be merry.

 

[RBDERRICK]

If someone is really born of God's seed, they cannot commit sin.

You're quote is correct. However, to clarify.

When Scripture says sons born of God cannot commit sin, does it mean that we cannot be sinning, or that when we are sinning, it cannot be judged as sin by God?

I preach the former, others decieve themselves with the latter.

 

[Corinth77777]

No the truth can't set us free from committing sisin.one

Plz explain

Looking at the passage they had yet to believe who Jesus is. WHY? IS IT BECAUSE THEY DID NOT believe who He was thereby ABIDE IN HIS TEACHINGS?

So to Even come alive they would have to, in some way, have Christ revealed to them and believe. SO THEY WERE STILL IN THE DARK. AND IF THEY WERE GOING TO COME OUT OF THE DARKNESS OF UNBELIEF, THEY'D NEED TO BELIEVE. AND WHY DO PEOPLE REJECT TRUTH? BECAUSE THEY DON'T WANT THEIR DEEDS EXPOSED. QUESTION IS: WHAT WAS Jesus teaching that they needed to abide in?

Who He was?
So one might say they were set free from unbelief.

So that beggs the question of what it means to be in Christ.
Can one be in the light and not walk in it.

One is told do not grieve the Spirit who you were sealed with.

Why then be told to walk as children of the light if you have yet to receive the Spirit.

So I say its not having something but knowing what you already have. FOR SOMEWHERE SCRIPTURE SAYS:

1 John 5:13

I have written these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life.

I said all that to say that one is Justified first.
Imputed righteousness.

So that they learn how to live in the presence of God. (Sanctification)

So as they grow in grace can they fall? Yes.
And if we fall do we not have a mediator so that we can get back up. Yes

And if we fall are we no longer in Christ?
This may come down to semantics .
Can Christ be in you, but you not in Christ?

 

[JLB]

Looking at the passage they had yet to believe who Jesus is.

I disagree.

Then Jesus said to those Jews who believed Him, “If you abide in My word, you are My disciples indeed. 32 And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.” John 8:31-32


Jesus was speaking to believers.

 

[Corinth77777]

I disagree.

Then Jesus said to those Jews who believed Him, “If you abide in My word, you are My disciples indeed. 32 And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.” John 8:31-32


Jesus was speaking to believers.

Opps ️ right

 

[Hopeful 2]

No He didn't.

Who said it then ?

Here is what Jesus said -

• And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free

So, I was right !

Then Jesus said to those Jews who believed Him, “If you abide in My word, you are My disciples indeed. And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.” John 8:31-32

• If you abide in My word, you are My disciples indeed.

Yes, He said that too.

Do sinners abide in His word ?
No, they do not.
They walk in darkness.

 

[Hopeful 2]

Of course we can be free from the service to sin,

Then we can be sinless!

however we must by the Spirit, put to death the deeds of sin that dwells in our flesh.

So do it and start walking in the light-God !

Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts. And do not present your members as instruments of unrighteousness to sin, but present yourselves to God as being alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God. Romans 6:12-13

Do it, and live forever !

Thank God while we mature and learn how to overcome the sinful tendencies that emanate from our flesh, we can confess our sins and be forgiven and cleansed.

If one manifest the devil's fruit, they are not reborn of God's seed.

If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us. 1 John 1:8-10

So true.
Sinners cannot say they have no sin, that they have never committed a sin, or that they have fellowship with God, or that they know God.
They walk in darkness !
On the other hand, those that walk in the light-God CAN say they have no sin, that DO they have fellowship with God, and that they DO know God !

Do you confess your sins, so as to be forgiven and cleansed?

I walk in the light-God, and in Him is no sin...or sinner.

 

[Hopeful 2]

When we speak of what others are promoting, it doesn't mean we agree with it.

You should make that clear in your posts.
Do you believe that any ongoing sinner has ever been reborn of God's seed ?
I don't.

No son born of God is committing sin, and cannot sin while a son of God.

OK, that answers my last question perfectly.

If sons disobey God,

They cannot be sons of God if they are still committing sin.
Start calling them something besides "sons of God".

they bastardize the faith of God, and are no more obedient sons but rebellious children of disobedience.

They simply manifest that they are not reborn of God's seed.

Obedient sons can become disobedient prodigal rebels betraying, but are now dead to God and must confess and repent to be alive sons again:

There is no such thing as a disobedient son of God.
There are only posers who pretended to be sons of God in order to ruin the reputation of Christ and His church.
God's seed remains in God's sons and they cannot commit sin.
"Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God." (1 John 3:9)

For this my son was dead, and is alive again; he was lost, and is found. And they began to be merry.
Luk 15:24
For this my son was dead, and is alive again; he was lost, and is found. And they began to be merry.

The prodigal son's father was a man of the flesh.
The sons of God are the off spring of God.

 

[Hopeful 2]

You're quote is correct. However, to clarify.

When Scripture says sons born of God cannot commit sin, does it mean that we cannot be sinning,

Yes, it does.
Sinful fruit would manifest a different father than God.

or that when we are sinning, it cannot be judged as sin by God?

God's judgement cannot be tainted with respect of persons.
Manifest who your Father is by a life without devilish fruit.

I preach the former, others decieve themselves with the latter.

If you hadn't clarified your position with that last line, my confidence in you would have been shattered.
Your style of writing often leaves your POV in limbo.

You make a statement, and then say "That's all wrong", after the fact.
Like you did with this post.

 

[JLB]

Who said it then ?

No one.

So, I was right !

No you were wrong.

Yes, He said that too.

Do sinners abide in His word ?
No, they do not.
They walk in darkness.

No Christians must continue in His word, in order to eventually know the truth.

Certainly doesn't happen at water baptism. Check mate!

 

[JLB]

Then we can be sinless!

We will be free from sin when our physical body is resurrected from the dead, at His coming.

 

[Hopeful 2]

No one.

I can't agree with your POV that Jesus did not say the truth could free us from service to sin.
It is plainly written in John 8:32-34.

No you were wrong.

John 8:32-34..." And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
33 They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free?
34 Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.

No, Christians must continue in His word, in order to eventually know the truth.

Sounds suspiciously like the "gradual sanctification" lie.
Why would a man continue in something he doesn't know is true ?

Certainly doesn't happen at water baptism. Check mate!

Though I don't remember mentioning water baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of past sins in this thread, (Acts 2:38), You are right.
At the time Jesus spoke those words from John 8, He had not yet been crucified and resurrected from the dead.
That is what baptism allows us to partake of, the killing of the flesh/old man and being raised with Him to walk in newness of life. (Rom 6:3-6)
Being able to now walk in the Spirit instead of in the "flesh", facilitates our freedom from committing sin.

Belief of the freedom Jesus declared in John 8:32-34 happens before baptism.
It is possible to walk in the Spirit after baptism.

 

[Hopeful 2]

We will be free from sin when our physical body is resurrected from the dead, at His coming.

It will be too late then.
Your whole life will have been lived in sin.
Why not kill the physical body now, by being water baptized into Christ and into His death and resurrection ? (Rom 6:3-6)