1 John 1: Against self-justifying doctrine

[Hopeful 2]

Because they choose to walk according to their flesh, which contains sin.


Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts. Romans 6:12

"Flesh" is just skin and bones, muscles and tendons, veins and arteries.
What is sinful about any of those ?
What sinful deed can your hand or foot commit ?

By the way, Paul writes of the end of the "flesh", and lusts, in Gal 5:24..."And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts."
The problem you describe belongs to those who are NOT Christ's.

 

[JLB]

"Flesh" is just skin and bones, muscles and tendons, veins and arteries.
What is sinful about any of those ?
What sinful deed can your hand or foot commit ?

By the way, Paul writes of the end of the "flesh", and lusts, in Gal 5:24..."And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts."
The problem you describe belongs to those who are NOT Christ's.

Our physical body contains sin.

Paul plainly warns baptized Christians to not let the sin that dwells in their mortal body, have dominion (reign) over them.

Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts. Romans 6:12


Your "theory" that water baptized Christians are sinless is nothing more than a doctrine of man, that prevents you from confessing your sins and being forgiven and cleansed from all unrighteousness.


You believe you are "sinless" and therefore you reject God's word to confess your sins.


If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us.
1 John 1:8-10


The choice is yours. If you want to die in your sins, because you believed a denominational false teaching, and you openly reject God's word, then that is your choice.

I hope and pray you come out of the darkness of your own self deception, and repent, humble yourself, and ask God to forgive you, for promoting a false doctrine.



JLB

 

[Corinth77777]

It goes back to what it means to be freed.

My thoughts- (MA= my answer)

At one time there was only one natural process that would lead to death. When Adam listen to Satan and turned to Himself.

Romans 5:12

What makes one a slave to sin? The one path that life was directed by.
What made one a slave? When they diconnected themselves from the life of God AND BROKE HIS WORD BY EATING OFF THE TREE OF KNOWLEDGE OF GOOD AND EVIL.

IT SEEMS ADAMS SIN WAS CREDITED TO ALL MEN BECAUSE ALL CAME FROM ADAM. Life apart from God?


Why did Death reign from Adam to Moses?
Does that mean up to Moses and the Law?


So what would make one freed from being a slave to sin. MA- When they have an out.
While, Many were no longer under the Law where the wages of sin is death and those excluded from the Law still remained under death because of Adam. The way for both was through Jesus's death and resurrection. For He died to free those under the law and would be the fulfillment of a promise made to Abraham. Through his resurrection He was able to free those from being a slave to sin.

"Flesh" is just skin and bones, muscles and tendons, veins and arteries.
What is sinful about any of those ?
What sinful deed can your hand or foot commit ?

Flesh - can also mean a person's natural abilities.

By the way, Paul writes of the end of the "flesh", and lusts, in Gal 5:24..."And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts."
The problem you describe belongs to those who are NOT Christ's.

A thought here from Colossians 2..

Where did they do this? At their baptism, reminding them of their oath?

Seeing that the context is circumcision of the outward and going back under the law.

Circumcision did not do the trick because they did not keep the law. That's why it was in their flesh.

But why does Baptism do the trick, Because it will change the heart. As a matter of fact,one is given a new heart.



So why have they did it? because Christ has done it? (Imputed righteousness)
It's in the calling things though they are not as though they are. [Romans 4:7 example]

So now, If they have done it. The precedent is that they continue to do.
.....

When one is Baptized they are baptized into Christ's death in order to live by His life...so beautiful

Baptism can be a reminder of your committment

But what does it look like to be baptized into death? Committment to die and stay dead, which means you dont live for yourself and from your natural abilities alone. But you live for others.

 

[Corinth77777]

My thoughts:
If God credits righteousness to one who believes

And God is only righteous
And sense He is the beginning and the end
Then the goal is to stay on the path of the beginning and the end.

Jesus is the way.
So if we are caught up in what Jesus is now doing on earth we have reward. We have what is usually given at the end in the middle.

That is salvation- everyday life we receive from God.

The righteous will live by faith...

They not only live by faith they !!LIVE!! by faith
Whose faith? the faith of the son-> God


There is a scripture that goes something like this so don't quote me: The will of the father is that everyone who looks to the son and believes will have life and be raised on the last day.

 

[Hopeful 2]

Our physical body contains sin.

If it did, it wouldn't be a new creature, or reborn of God's seed.

Paul plainly warns baptized Christians to not let the sin that dwells in their mortal body, have dominion (reign) over them.

You misread it.

Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts. Romans 6:12

It is written..."And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts." (Gal 5:24)
You are describing the plight of the unregenerated.

Your "theory" that water baptized Christians are sinless is nothing more than a doctrine of man, that prevents you from confessing your sins and being forgiven and cleansed from all unrighteousness.

Peter said..."Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, " (Acts 2:38)
Do you deny that the blood of Christ can wash away our past sins ?
If it can, then are we not sinless after baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins ?
Ananias told Paul..."And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord." (Acts 22:16)
Obey, and be sinless !

You believe you are "sinless" and therefore you reject God's word to confess your sins.

I know I am, as my repentance from sin has been true, and my baptism in the name of Jesus Christ has washed away my past sins !
I confessed my sin, and because I love God and neighbor, have not repeated them.
What is the excuse for returning to them ?
What is the excuse for a false repentance from sin ?
Lack of love is the excuse !

If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us.
1 John 1:8-10

Verses written about those walking in darkness-sin don't apply to those walking in the light-God. (v6,8,10)
Just as verses written about those walking in light-God don't apply to those walking in darkness-sin. (v5,7,9)

The choice is yours. If you want to die in your sins, because you believed a denominational false teaching, and you openly reject God's word, then that is your choice.

The choice is yours.
If you want to maintain a sinful life style unto death, I am sure you know what penalty to expect.

I hope and pray you come out of the darkness of your own self deception, and repent, humble yourself, and ask God to forgive you, for promoting a false doctrine.

I have already "come out of darkness-sin."
You want me to return to it !

John wrote..."And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.
6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked." (1 John 2:3-6)

Sinners don't know Him, nor do they walk as Jesus walked.
They walk in darkness.

 

[Hopeful 2]

It goes back to what it means to be freed.
My thoughts- (MA= my answer)
At one time there was only one natural process that would lead to death. When Adam listen to Satan and turned to Himself.
Romans 5:12
What makes one a slave to sin? The one path that life was directed by.
What made one a slave? When they diconnected themselves from the life of God AND BROKE HIS WORD BY EATING OFF THE TREE OF KNOWLEDGE OF GOOD AND EVIL.

IT SEEMS ADAMS SIN WAS CREDITED TO ALL MEN BECAUSE ALL CAME FROM ADAM. Life apart from God?

No, as that is the false church's position.
No man is judged for another man's sin.

Why did Death reign from Adam to Moses?
Does that mean up to Moses and the Law?

Adam ushered death into the world.
Until Moses, there was no Law from God defining what was or wasn't a sin.

So what would make one freed from being a slave to sin. MA- When they have an out.

The 'out' is the gift of repentance and baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission for past sins.
And the gift of the Holy Ghost !

While, Many were no longer under the Law where the wages of sin is death and those excluded from the Law still remained under death because of Adam. The way for both was through Jesus's death and resurrection. For He died to free those under the law and would be the fulfillment of a promise made to Abraham. Through his resurrection He was able to free those from being a slave to sin.

Agreed.

Flesh - can also mean a person's natural abilities.

The word could be used in that context, I suppose.

A thought here from Colossians 2..

What part of Col 2 ?

Where did they do this? At their baptism, reminding them of their oath?

"This" from Col 2 ?

Seeing that the context is circumcision of the outward and going back under the law.

Circumcision did not do the trick because they did not keep the law. That's why it was in their flesh.

But why does Baptism do the trick, Because it will change the heart. As a matter of fact,one is given a new heart.



So why have they did it? because Christ has done it? (Imputed righteousness)
It's in the calling things though they are not as though they are. [Romans 4:7 example]

So now, If they have done it. The precedent is that they continue to do.
.....

When one is Baptized they are baptized into Christ's death in order to live by His life...so beautiful

Baptism can be a reminder of your committment

But what does it look like to be baptized into death? Committment to die and stay dead, which means you dont live for yourself and from your natural abilities alone. But you live for others.

Ok...

 

[JLB]

If it did, it wouldn't be a new creature, or reborn of God's seed.

That is one of the many flaws in your "theory".


The physical body is not born again, but your spirit.


That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. John 3:6

Your physical body was born of your natural mother.
Your spirit was born of the Spirit.

As long as you continue to ignore and deny what the truth is, you will continue to be in bondage to deception.

Instead of denying the truth, try believing and embracing the truth of the scriptures.

 

[Hopeful 2]

That is one of the many flaws in your "theory".
The physical body is not born again, but your spirit.

Were that true, then 2 Cor 5:17 is in error.
It isn't.

That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. John 3:6

Why don't you see that the new man who has been raised with Christ to walk in newness of life is a Spiritual man ?
The old man was destroyed. (Rom 6:6)
Why don't you believe 2 Cor 5:17 ?

Your physical body was born of your natural mother.
Your spirit was born of the Spirit.

I am glad that which was born of my mother was destroyed and a new creature took its place.

As long as you continue to ignore and deny what the truth is, you will continue to be in bondage to deception.
Instead of denying the truth, try believing and embracing the truth of the scriptures.

It isn't the truth, as it cannot free me from service to sin. (John 8:32-34)
It only accommodates sin.
Your doctrine makes a man subject to his, supposedly destroyed, skin and bones instead of to his new mind.
Why is your "old man" still alive ?
It also denies Gal 3:27..."For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ."
Your position is that you have put on Christ, but are subject to your old skin and bones.
It makes no sense !

 

[JLB]

Were that true, then 2 Cor 5:17 is in error.
It isn't.

False!

From this point forward, you will need to post actual scripture.

Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new. 2 Corinthians 5:17


As we see, there is no mention of our physical body being born again, in this passage.

Jesus answered, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. John 3:5-6

• that which is born of the Spirit is spirit

Our spirit is reborn of the Spirit, not our flesh.

Flesh gives birth to flesh.

Our flesh is not born of the Spirit.

Our physical body still contains the sin, (sin nature) we inherited from Adam, after water baptism.

Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death? Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
For if we have been united together in the likeness of His death, certainly we also shall be in the likeness of His resurrection, knowing this, that our old man was crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves of sin. For he who has died has been freed from sin. Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him, knowing that Christ, having been raised from the dead, dies no more. Death no longer has dominion over Him. For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God. Likewise you also, reckon yourselves to be dead indeed to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts. Romans 6:3-12

Paul plainly exhorts these water baptized Christians to not let sin reign in their mortal body!

• Our physical bodies shall be resurrected from the dead, at His coming, not at water baptism.

But now Christ is risen from the dead, and has become the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. For since by man came death, by Man also came the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive. But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ’s at His coming. 1 Corinthians 15:20-23


Your belief that our physical body literally dies, and is resurrected from the dead, at water baptism is in error.

Your belief that our physical body is born again sinless, at water baptism is in error.

Your belief that you have no need to confess your sins to God and be forgiven because you are sinless, is in error.


You refuse to hear and believe Jesus Christ and His Apostles who wrote the New Testament.


We are of God. He who knows God hears us; he who is not of God does not hear us. By this we know the spirit of truth and the spirit of error. 1 John 4:6




JLB

 

[Corinth77777]

Were that true, then 2 Cor 5:17 is in error.
It isn't.

In 2 Cor 5:17 ....What are the all things?

Could be all things in relationship with the old nature
......
Removing the Penalty vs. Power of sin

regeneratiin/Justification - then sanctification


Accepted in vs. Accepted of the beloved
standing vs. State

 

[Corinth77777]

No, as that is the false church's position.
No man is judged for another man's sin.

Jesus was

Adam ushered death into the world.
Until Moses, there was no Law from God defining what was or wasn't a sin.

Law of the conscience

The 'out' is the gift of repentance and baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission for past sins.
And the gift of the Holy Ghost !

The out is Christ Jesus- He is the path of life, the door, The way- for rather you repent or not He is still the path, the door, the way

There is the narrow path and the wide path.
Just maybe the wide path is what you can do in your natural abilities; your flesh

And the narrow path is What Jesus accomplished based on who He is and where He came from. So Through His power.

Agreed.

The word could be used in that context, I suppose.

Most of the time don't you believe its speaking about what man does in his natural abilities. Doesn't power come from the body?

What part of Col 2 ?

For I would that ye knew what great conflict I have for you, and for them at Laodicea, and for as many as have not seen my face in the flesh;

2 That their hearts might be comforted, being knit together in love, and unto all riches of the full assurance of understanding, to the acknowledgement of the mystery of God, and of the Father, and of Christ;

3 In whom are hid all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge.

4 And this I say, lest any man should beguile you with enticing words.

5 For though I be absent in the flesh, yet am I with you in the spirit, joying and beholding your order, and the stedfastness of your faith in Christ.

6 As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him:

7 Rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith, as ye have been taught, abounding therein with thanksgiving.

8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:

11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:

12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.

13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;

14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.

16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:

17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

18 Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind,

19 And not holding the Head, from which all the body by joints and bands having nourishment ministered, and knit together, increaseth with the increase of God.

20 Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances,

21 (Touch not; taste not; handle not;

22 Which all are to perish with the using;) after the commandments and doctrines of men?

23 Which things have indeed a shew of wisdom in will worship, and humility, and neglecting of the body: not in any honour to the satisfying of the flesh

"This" from Col 2 ?

Ok...

 

[Corinth77777]

Adam ushered death into the world.

True andddddd sin = death; right?

 

[Hopeful 2]

False!
From this point forward, you will need to post actual scripture.
Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new. 2 Corinthians 5:17

Thanks for citing my proof.
What does the word "all" mean to you ?
Does it mean "everything but the body" ?
It doesn't mean than to me.

As we see, there is no mention of our physical body being born again, in this passage.

Jesus answered, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. John 3:5-6

• that which is born of the Spirit is spirit

Thanks again for citing my proof.
Why do you insist that those reborn of God's seed, or, the Spirit, are still "of the flesh" ?

Our spirit is reborn of the Spirit, not our flesh.

There you have your accommodation for sin.
That is a false doctrine.

Flesh gives birth to flesh.

Seeing as those reborn of God's seed are reborn of the Spirit, your argument is moot.

Our flesh is not born of the Spirit.

It isn't our flesh, if we are reborn of God.
Perhaps Eph 5:30 will enlighten you a tad..."For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones."
You are mistakenly assigning sin to Jesus' body !

Our physical body still contains the sin, (sin nature) we inherited from Adam, after water baptism.

If it does, you should repent and get reborn of God.
That would end your problem !
We can't be "born of" two different fathers.

Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death? Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
For if we have been united together in the likeness of His death, certainly we also shall be in the likeness of His resurrection, knowing this, that our old man was crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves of sin. For he who has died has been freed from sin. Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him, knowing that Christ, having been raised from the dead, dies no more. Death no longer has dominion over Him. For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God. Likewise you also, reckon yourselves to be dead indeed to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts. Romans 6:3-12
Paul plainly exhorts these water baptized Christians to not let sin reign in their mortal body!

Why keep citing my proofs ?
The old man has been destroyed !
Rom 6:6 says it ! "Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin."


So does Gal 5:22 ! "And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts."

• Our physical bodies shall be resurrected from the dead, at His coming, not at water baptism.

They will indeed be raised from the dead.
The righteous to eternal life and the unrighteous to eternal damnation.
As your sin accommodating doctrine assigns sin to all the so-called converts, they will be raised to damnation.

But now Christ is risen from the dead, and has become the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. For since by man came death, by Man also came the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive. But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ’s at His coming. 1 Corinthians 15:20-23

Do those with sin on them qualify as "Christ's" ?
They don't, in Gal 5:24.

Your belief that our physical body literally dies, and is resurrected from the dead, at water baptism is in error.

Your belief on the matter leaves you in sin.

Your belief that our physical body is born again sinless, at water baptism is in error.

Your belief on the matter leaves you in sin.

Your belief that you have no need to confess your sins to God and be forgiven because you are sinless, is in error.

Because you won't truly repent of sin, you remain in sin !

You refuse to hear and believe Jesus Christ and His Apostles who wrote the New Testament.
We are of God. He who knows God hears us; he who is not of God does not hear us. By this we know the spirit of truth and the spirit of error. 1 John 4:6

Thank God for the gift of the Holy Spirit so we can recognize accommodations for sin !
Your sin accommodating doctrine will be the cause of the condemnation of many.

"For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ." (Gal 3:27)
Is there sin in the Christ that we have 'put on' ?

 

[Hopeful 2]

In 2 Cor 5:17 ....What are the all things?

Don't you know what the word "ALL" means ?
Every aspect of the "old you" is made new !

Could be all things in relationship with the old nature

If they were once the old you, they are made new.

Removing the Penalty vs. Power of sin

How about "both" ?
The only way to get rid of a penalty for sins is to quit sinning !

regeneratiin/Justification - then sanctification

How about all at the same time ?
Justification and sanctification happen at the application of the atoning, sanctifying, consecrating, justifying blood of Christ: the perfect sacrifice.

Accepted in vs. Accepted of the beloved
standing vs. State

I don't know what that means...

 

[Hopeful 2]

Jesus was

Interesting thought, but Jesus took our penalty for us.
Judgement against Him was a moot point, as death couldn't hold Him.

Law of the conscience

There is no penalty "of conscience".

The out is Christ Jesus- He is the path of life, the door, The way- for rather you repent or not He is still the path, the door, the way

A lack of repentance will entail not taking that Door.

There is the narrow path and the wide path.
Just maybe the wide path is what you can do in your natural abilities; your flesh.

Just imagine what you can do, on the narrow path !

And the narrow path is What Jesus accomplished based on who He is and where He came from. So Through His power.

And 'we in Him' can accomplish the same thing !

Most of the time don't you believe its speaking about what man does in his natural abilities. Doesn't power come from the body?

You've lost me there...

1 For I would that ye knew what great conflict I have for you, and for them at Laodicea, and for as many as have not seen my face in the flesh;....
23 Which things have indeed a shew of wisdom in will worship, and humility, and neglecting of the body: not in any honour to the satisfying of the flesh

Without some context here, your chapter means nothing.
Make a point, please.

 

[Hopeful 2]

True andddddd sin = death; right?

No, as many who didn't commit a sin have died.
Rom 5:14..."Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come."

 

[Consecrated Life]

1 John 1 is not just against sinners saying they have no sin, but is specifically about sinners believing they have no sin condemned by God, because they name His name.

Someone whose first & foremost desire is making sure everyone knows they are Christian, which in itself is a huge red flag, is by compulsively self-promoting their character in telling everyone how "good" they are only magnifies the spiritual insecurity & fear that dominates their lives.
They might as well wear a billboard advertising how good they out of this fear they live by.

There is no silent voice of the Most High within them whose presence alone is more than sufficient to comfort & strengthen them in all humility , Love , peace , gentleness, joy, faith. that exudes a heavenly radiancy from their very person that can be clearly seen, with no compulsive need to be restlessly, boastfully, loudly imposed on all within earshot.
Unlovely dispositioned Slaves they are to their own desperate, lonely, compulsive futile pleadings of self-glorification ,self-enlargement.. self-justification.

1Ti 1:15
..... Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.

 

[Hopeful 2]

Someone whose first & foremost desire is making sure everyone knows they are Christian, which in itself is a huge red flag, is by compulsively self-promoting their character in telling everyone how "good" they are only magnifies the spiritual insecurity & fear that dominates their lives.
They might as well wear a billboard advertising how good they out of this fear they live by.

I wonder if they said something like that to the OT prophets too.

There is no silent voice of the Most High within them whose presence alone is more than sufficient to comfort & strengthen them in all humility , Love , peace , gentleness, joy, faith. that exudes a heavenly radiancy from their very person that can be clearly seen, with no compulsive need to be restlessly, boastfully, loudly imposed on all within earshot.
Unlovely dispositioned Slaves they are to their own desperate, lonely, compulsive futile pleadings of self-glorification ,self-enlargement.. self-justification.

1Ti 1:15
..... Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.

Yep, Paul was the worst of those saved at that time.
Why ?
Because he persecuted the early church.
But he didn't keep persecuting it after his conversion.

 

[Consecrated Life]

The petty, restless, needfully compulsive self-justification of those spiritually unconscious to the possibility of forgetting the self-promoting of their own goodness in favor of having their fireless souls roused to the Higher challenges of God for us is truly a tragic thing to witness.
The greatest need of their own religion, to anxiously out-profess their self-measured goodness above all others.
Oblivious to the fact that for 99.9% of Christians the quiet peace , deep satisfaction, that stabilizes and comforts their souls comes not from the ceaseless running off at the mouth of the goodness within themselves, but from the Faith , Trust & Devotion to that which is outside of themselves.
Never at peace in their hope that their greatest spiritual satisfaction can only be generated from their unceasing, selfish , unenlightened. impatient boastings of their own goodness.
The Idol of their own self-perceived goodness being the malevolent spiritual power that holds them constantly in bondage to a spiritually tainted existence.


1Ti 1:15
..... Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.

 

[Corinth77777]

wondering if the conscience is formed by our environment. That would mean if there was no law there would be no conscience that would convict one.

But that does not mean there is no sin, just means people are not rewarded for what they don't know. But if they have no conscience of sin is it sin?

no
Now if a person is born in sin and shaped in iniquity they have a shaped conscience due to the the enviroment. They reside in death. Yet do they know they are apart from God?
Does eating off the tree of the knowledge of good and evil mean anything for the rest of the world or only for Adam.


Yet again God is seen in His creation that man are without excuse

Interesting thought, but Jesus took our penalty for us.
Judgement against Him was a moot point, as death couldn't hold Him.

There is no penalty "of conscience".

A lack of repentance will entail not taking that Door.

Just imagine what you can do, on the narrow path !

And 'we in Him' can accomplish the same thing !

You've lost me there...

Without some context here, your chapter means nothing.

Make a point, please.

I did,go back and read your writing. please