1 Peter 1:23 is about eternal security

[chessman]

If we want an entrance to be made available for us into God's Kingdom.

Why change what Peter said so well???

for so an entrance will be supplied to you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom

It's not 'made available', it is supplied to you abundantly.

properly, lavishly supply, as it is suitable (apt) to outfit all that is needed to accomplish a grand objective.

 

[gr8grace3]

24 For we were saved in this hope, but hope that is seen is not hope; for why does one still hope for what he sees? 25 But if we hope for what we do not see, we eagerly wait for it with perseverance.

In this passage, what does Paul say he is waiting for, with perseverance?

I already answered that JLB. Plus another question you posed to me. Why do my questions go unanswered?

The short answer to your question is his resurrection body. Being in the eternal state face to face with Christ. Going to heaven.

Rom 8:23(the verse right before the verses you posted)~~23And not only this, but also we ourselves, having the first fruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting eagerly for our adoption as sons, the redemption of our body.

The "hope" you are using is not biblical hope. Biblical Hope is surety, certainty, without doubt.

It isn't crossing our fingers behind our backs and having a "chance" at the dice rolling in our favor.

" For we were saved in this CERTAINTY(hope)....."

 

[FreeGrace]

Scripture against scripture is what the OSAS crowd must do, to propagate an unbiblical doctrine.

That is exactly what your position has done.

 

[FreeGrace]

24 “Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life. 25 Most assuredly, I say to you, the hour is coming, and now is, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God; and those who hear will live. 26 For as the Father has life in Himself, so He has granted the Son to have life in Himself, 27 and has given Him authority to execute judgment also, because He is the Son of Man. 28 Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice 29 and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation. 30 I can of Myself do nothing. As I hear, I judge; and My judgment is righteous, because I do not seek My own will but the will of the Father who sent Me. John 5:24-30
Key word: Believes

No, the key phrase is "HAS ETERNAL LIFE". The believer HAS it WHEN they believe. Your claim is that one does NOT HAVE it until after death.

Eternal life is given to those who believe.

And WHEN is that? WHEN they believe. Unlike your claims.

Those who believe's for a while, then no longer believe's, has returned to unbelieving.
JLB

So what? Show any verse that teaches that loss of faith results in loss of eternal life/salvation.

I have been waiting patiently for such a verse. To date, none has been provided.

That shows that your claims are not supported by Scripture.

 

[gr8grace3]

My wife got saved at the same time I did, later received the gift of speaking in tongues, but, by her own admission, has since departed the faith and no longer believes.

Since biblical tongues ended in 70 AD when "this people"(the Jews) lost their client nation status.......maybe it was counterfeit faith. Those kinds of faith are hard, very hard to white knuckle through. Most do walk away.

The importance of knowing that salvation can be taken away because of unbelief is especially important in this time we live in. It's so easy to rationalize the sin of a works-less, faithless life when you've been told over and over again that your belief/obedience has no bearing on your eternal place. James and John made it quite clear that the person who is not changed by faith in Christ simply does not have the faith/ born-again experience they claim they have (James 2:14,18 NASB, 1 John 3:9-10 NASB). But hyper-grace doctrine insists that the unbelieving/ works-less person is still saved as long as they have some kind of confession of faith somewhere in their past. That COMPLETELY contradicts the passages I just cited. COMPLETELY.

This is a smoke screen to veil the real problem. The overwhelming majority of churches and believers teach cleaning up your life, quit all your bad habits, show a lot of fruit, be nice and sweet and a sprinkling of Jesus.

For every one believer who says "live like hell" there are 100,000 that are relying on their good works and sinning less for their salvation.

Nobody is going to fool a believer into sinning like hell. But they sure can be deceived into self-righteousness and the fact that they cleaned up their life has bearing/merit for their salvation. Maybe this is the faith your wife departed. I know I would.

 

[Mustard Socks]

Since biblical tongues ended in 70 AD when "this people"(the Jews) lost their client nation status.......maybe it was counterfeit faith. Those kinds of faith are hard, very hard to white knuckle through. Most do walk away.

They do so because they were not called.
I imagine it like the analogy of a person sinking in quicksand. They prefer the mud sucking them down because they let go of the hand that has stretched out to pull them free.
Those who prefer to be sucked down by the mire don't have relationship with the all encompassing feeling and passion of that strong grip lifting them up and out of their condition. However, as sad as that is, it is all foretold by Christ as what separates the believers from the unbelievers.

Not everyone who says to me Lord Lord....

This is a smoke screen to veil the real problem. The overwhelming majority of churches and believers teach cleaning up your life, quit all your bad habits, show a lot of fruit, be nice and sweet and a sprinkling of Jesus.

For every one believer who says "live like hell" there are 100,000 that are relying on their good works and sinning less for their salvation.

Nobody is going to fool a believer into sinning like hell. But they sure can be deceived into self-righteousness and the fact that they cleaned up their life has bearing/merit for their salvation. Maybe this is the faith your wife departed. I know I would.

I think a lot of that kind of bad teaching comes from the notion put forth a long time ago by a founder of his own tradition. One who advised his followers to sin boldly because they are boldly saved.

As we are taught in God's word, no one who is one with Christ makes a habit of sinning.
In fact, that they continue to willfully sin is evidence they are not one with Christ. Again, very sad. However, also foretold by our Lord as what separates those who are called and hearken to the spirit of God and those who do not.

 

[Mustard Socks]

That is exactly what your position has done.

I would make the observation that what their constant argument demonstrates is opposition to the sacrifice of Christ and God's grace initiating our salvation.

 

[chessman]

The following passage defines what an "unbeliever" is, Biblically speaking:

2 Corinthians 4:3-4 (LEB) But if indeed our gospel is veiled, it is veiled among those who are perishing, among whom the god of this age has blinded the minds of the unbelievers, so that they would not see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God. ​

Notice what it says; unbelievers would NOT see the light of the Gospel. Their minds are blinded! The Gospel is veiled among unbelievers.

Furthermore, the Bible never, not once, describes an unbeliever as someone who "believes for awhile then stops believing". It literally means Not believer for a reason. Someone who theoretically has 'believed for a while then no longer believes' is NOT an unbeliever. No verse describes an unbeliever as someone who once was an unbeliever (blinded, perishing) then believes (sees the light, believes and is gifted with Eternal Life never to perish) then returns to being blinded/perishing. It's ridiculously contradictory to say someone will never perish then turn right around and say they are perishing.

Those who believe's for a while, then no longer believe's, has returned to unbelieving.

Why, after all the times you've made this claim, have you never posted a verse that actually uses the word "unbeliever" for someone that 'believes for awhile, then no longer believes'??? There is no such verse in the whole Bible, that's why.

https://www.biblegateway.com/quicksearch/?search=Unbeliever&version=LEB;KJV;NKJV&searchtype=all

 

[Mustard Socks]

Maybe it is time to recognize the classifications of argument that are being undertaken in these many pages.

Those who believe we have to work to remain saved are defending the classic Arminian position. I've sourced a resource for this information to avoid the confusion .
Classic Arminianism

• One must persevere in faith to be saved.

• True believers can lose their faith.

• Those dying without faith in Christ are condemned.

"The believer who loses his faith is damned."

 

[gr8grace3]

Maybe it is time to recognize the classifications of argument that are being undertaken in these many pages.

Those who believe we have to work to remain saved are defending the classic Arminian position. I've sourced a resource for this information to avoid the confusion .
Classic Arminianism

• One must persevere in faith to be saved.

• True believers can lose their faith.

• Those dying without faith in Christ are condemned.

"The believer who loses his faith is damned."

On the surface, calvinism seems the opposite of the Arminianism persuasion. But they are pretty much the same.

Calvinism just says that you were not "really" saved if those points are true in the end Of a persons life.

Perseverance of the saints is EXACTLY the same as loss of salvation if one really studies it out.

1 Just says that you were really saved and lost it.

The other just says you were not really saved and lost the salvation that you "thought" you had.

But eternal security is preservation of the believer.......because salvation depends upon the character and nature of the Lord Jesus Christ. Not the character and nature of the believer.

Rewards, reign, rank and ETERNAL blessings, may be lost based upon the behavior of the believer. They may have shame at the judgement seat of Christ. And not be presented holy and blameless and be saved as if through fire to refine them..........but they are saved.

After salvation, we are working for His Glory. And if we Glorify him little, we will be a "private." if we glorify Him much we will be a "general"(lords and kings in His Kingdom.) So there is much at stake, just not our eternal life.

There are many people who are saved and lose faith. the pressures of the world drag them down or a sneaky snake comes along and steals their joy with RELIGION.

2 Tim 2~~
11It is a trustworthy statement:
For if (and we have/first class condition)we died with Him, we(His Body) will also live with Him;

12If we endure, we will also reign with Him;
If we deny Him, He also will deny us(that reign);

13If we are faithless, He remains faithful, for He cannot deny Himself.

Eph 5~~29for no one ever hated his own flesh, but nourishes and cherishes it, just as Christ also does the church, 30 because we are members of His body.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

So, apparently it is this that drives your theology. Rather than the Word of God and the promises therein.

No.

Not meaning to pry, but did your wife depart the faith because of your theology?

No.
She is represented in the second type of soil in the Parable of the Sower. When trial and tribulation came because of the gospel she fell away (Luke 8:13 NASB).

Right here you've just openly admitted that works are required to get into heaven. So why deny that your theology is a works based system of salvation?

Works are not required for justification.
The person who has been justified by faith in the blood apart from their works is the person who then grows up into righteous work. That's why works accompany the faith that justifies all by itself. Even Luther himself said that the faith that justifies alone is never alone. Did you know he said that? I'm guessing you did not know that.

Nope. Not at all. In fact, James 4:6 contradicts your position and view of God's matchless grace.

Where does that verse say God gives grace to the proud?
'Hyper-grace' means to bend grace where it was not meant to go--like when you hyper-extend an elbow. The very verse you quote in James 4:6 NASB to somehow defend OSAS is actually a verse that disproves 'hyper-grace' OSAS. Grace does not go to the proud. It's a place that you can not bend grace to go as 'hyper-grace' OSAS insists. But I see this a lot--OSAS folk posting scriptures that are supposed to be teaching OSAS but which actually show non-OSAS.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Since biblical tongues ended in 70 AD when "this people"(the Jews) lost their client nation status.......maybe it was counterfeit faith.

Everybody who's been around tongue speaking Christians knows the argument for that gift ending is a joke.
And those same Christians know fake tongues from real tongues. My wife had the real thing. That signifies she had the indwelling Holy Spirit in justification/salvation. I say 'had' because she can no longer speak in tongues. That gift was revoked when she willfully entered into unbelief.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

For every one believer who says "live like hell" there are 100,000 that are relying on their good works and sinning less for their salvation.

Someday perhaps I will meet one of these people.
To date--and I've been an active believer for 30 years--I've only met one, maybe two, people who were relying on their works to justify/save them. The vast majority are in the other camp and believe that no matter how far into sin they shrink it has no affect whatsoever on their salvation because <wait for it> 'salvation is by faith, not works'. They being completely oblivious to the Biblical truth that says the faith that does nothing is the faith that can not save. Not because works save, but because the footprint of saving faith is obedience, just like the footprints Abraham, the father of faith, left.

 

[Mustard Socks]

On the surface, calvinism seems the opposite of the Arminianism persuasion. But they are pretty much the same.

Calvinism just says that you were not "really" saved if those points are true in the end Of a persons life.

Perseverance of the saints is EXACTLY the same as loss of salvation if one really studies it out.

1 Just says that you were really saved and lost it.

The other just says you were not really saved and lost the salvation that you "thought" you had.

But eternal security is preservation of the believer.......because salvation depends upon the character and nature of the Lord Jesus Christ. Not the character and nature of the believer.

Rewards, reign, rank and ETERNAL blessings, may be lost based upon the behavior of the believer. They may have shame at the judgement seat of Christ. And not be presented holy and blameless and be saved as if through fire to refine them..........but they are saved.

After salvation, we are working for His Glory. And if we Glorify him little, we will be a "private." if we glorify Him much we will be a "general"(lords and kings in His Kingdom.) So there is much at stake, just not our eternal life.

There are many people who are saved and lose faith. the pressures of the world drag them down or a sneaky snake comes along and steals their joy with RELIGION.

2 Tim 2~~
11It is a trustworthy statement:
For if (and we have/first class condition)we died with Him, we(His Body) will also live with Him;

12If we endure, we will also reign with Him;
If we deny Him, He also will deny us(that reign);

13If we are faithless, He remains faithful, for He cannot deny Himself.

Eph 5~~29for no one ever hated his own flesh, but nourishes and cherishes it, just as Christ also does the church, 30 because we are members of His body.

I've engaged in discussions for many years on these type topics. And it is typically the same kind of arguments that present themselves as opposed to the teachings of Christ about eternal life.
I believe that someone can be an unbeliever and still call themselves Christian. And in those cases I mention those are the very type I encountered. They argued against Christ using scripture in order to argue against everything he did to guarantee eternal salvation to the faithful.

I like what John 10 has to say overall.

 

[Mustard Socks]

Someday perhaps I will meet one of these people.
To date--and I've been an active believer for 30 years--I've only met one, maybe two, people who were relying on their works to justify/save them. The vast majority are in the other camp and believe that no matter how far into sin they shrink it has no affect whatsoever on their salvation because <wait for it> 'salvation is by faith, not works'. They being completely oblivious to the Biblical truth that says the faith that does nothing is the faith that can not save. Not because works save, but because the footprint of saving faith is obedience, just like the footprints Abraham, the father of faith, left.

I don't believe you've encountered any Christian who believes they can sin without restraint.

The word of God is very clear about sin, salvation, rebirth, God's remembering our sins no more, and that no Christian makes a habit of sinning.
I believe what is being related is a false assertion in order to condemn yet again the eternal salvation Jesus promises through his sacrifice and by the grace of God.

 

[JLB]

• One must persevere in faith to be saved.

• True believers can lose their faith.

• Those dying without faith in Christ are condemned.

"The believer who loses his faith is damned."

Which one of these statements do you believe to be true?

 

[JLB]

God's grace is greater than ALL our failures. But your position does not allow for that.

James does not say this.

These are your words.


JLB

 

[JLB]

What is Paul waiting for with perseverance? Salvation

Yes, Salvation.


Thanks JLB

 

[JLB]

Simple answer. His resurrection body. We don't see it now but we "hope" for it.

Amen.

23And not only this, but also we ourselves, having the first fruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting eagerly for our adoption as sons, the redemption of our body

You are using a worldly hope. Believers(who advance/mature) after salvation use a biblical hope.......CERTAINTY. WITHOUT A DOUBT.

So Paul has a worldly hope?


23 Not only that, but we also who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, eagerly waiting for the adoption, the redemption of our body. 24 For we were saved in this hope, but hope that is seen is not hope; for why does one still hope for what he sees? 25 But if we hope for what we do not see, we eagerly wait for it with perseverance.
Romans 8:18-25

No one will inherit the kingdom of God without their resurrection body, that will never die.

Only those who are worthy to attain the resurrection of the dead, will then be called son's of God, and will be equal to the angels.

34 Jesus answered and said to them, “The sons of this age marry and are given in marriage. 35 But those who are counted worthy to attain that age, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry nor are given in marriage; 36 nor can they die anymore, for they are equal to the angels and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection. Luke 20:34-36

The redemption of our body is synonymous with salvation.

Unless you can show from the scriptures those who will have immortality in the age to come, without a resurrection body, then you will have to agree that the redemption of the body is synonymous with salvation.

Paul plainly describes those Christians who will be given eternal life:

...eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; Romans 2:7


Likewise, Paul warns us about those Christians who will not be given eternal life.

but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath, 9 tribulation and anguish, on every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the Greek; 10 but glory, honor, and peace to everyone who works what is good, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. 11 For there is no partiality with God. Romans 2:8-11

Paul warns us throughout Romans about Christians who serve sin.

They will receive eternal death, as opposed to eternal life to those who obey the Holy Spirit within them.

For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. Romans 6:23



JLB

 

[JLB]

Why, after all the times you've made this claim, have you never posted a verse that actually uses the word "unbeliever" for someone that 'believes for awhile, then no longer believes'??? There is no such verse in the whole Bible, that's why.

https://www.biblegateway.com/quicksearch/?search=Unbeliever&version=LEB;KJV;NKJV&searchtype=all

Here is my quote.

Those who believe's for a while, then no longer believe's, has returned to unbelieving.

Here is the verse that supports what I said. -

7 He who overcomes shall inherit all things,and I will be his God and he shall be My son. 8 But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.” Revelations 21:7-8

Those who believe for awhile, then return to unbelieving... no longer believe.



JLB