1 Peter 1:23 is about eternal security

[chessman]

She is represented in the second type of soil in the Parable of the Sower.

Ah, so she heard the word about the kingdom but did not understood what she heard. Matthew says the good soil was the one example among the four that hears and understands it.

Matthew 13:18-19a, 23 (NASB)
The Sower Explained
18 “Hear then the parable of the sower. When anyone hears the word of the kingdom and does not understand it, the evil one comes and snatches away what has been sown in his heart. ... 23 And the one on whom seed was sown on the good soil, this is the man who hears the word and understands it;​

 

[chessman]

Here is the verse that supports what I said. -

7 He who overcomes shall inherit all things,and I will be his God and he shall be My son. 8 But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.” Revelations 21:7-8

There's nothing in either of these two verses that describes unbelieving as once believing then no longer believing. Or someone "who believe's for a while, then no longer believe's" as an unbeliever.

But whatever, I'm sure you think it somehow supports your claim. It doesn't. Can you explain any further how you think either verse supports your claim?

BTW:

Revelation 21:7 is a great verse isn't it???

New King James Version (NKJV) 7 He who overcomes shall inherit all things,[M-Text reads overcomes, I shall give him these things] and I will be his God and he shall be My son.​

Mind-boggling to me that someone would actually think He who overcomes (present tense) unbelieving will not be God's son (future tense). It would be a direct contradiction to verse 7's truth for that to ever happen.

 

[gr8grace3]

Amen.



So Paul has a worldly hope?


23 Not only that, but we also who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, eagerly waiting for the adoption, the redemption of our body. 24 For we were saved in this hope, but hope that is seen is not hope; for why does one still hope for what he sees? 25 But if we hope for what we do not see, we eagerly wait for it with perseverance.
Romans 8:18-25

No one will inherit the kingdom of God without their resurrection body, that will never die.

Only those who are worthy to attain the resurrection of the dead, will then be called son's of God, and will be equal to the angels.

34 Jesus answered and said to them, “The sons of this age marry and are given in marriage. 35 But those who are counted worthy to attain that age, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry nor are given in marriage; 36 nor can they die anymore, for they are equal to the angels and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection. Luke 20:34-36

The redemption of our body is synonymous with salvation.

Unless you can show from the scriptures those who will have immortality in the age to come, without a resurrection body, then you will have to agree that the redemption of the body is synonymous with salvation.

Paul plainly describes those Christians who will be given eternal life:

...eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; Romans 2:7


Likewise, Paul warns us about those Christians who will not be given eternal life.

but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath, 9 tribulation and anguish, on every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the Greek; 10 but glory, honor, and peace to everyone who works what is good, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. 11 For there is no partiality with God. Romans 2:8-11

Paul warns us throughout Romans about Christians who serve sin.

They will receive eternal death, as opposed to eternal life to those who obey the Holy Spirit within them.

For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. Romans 6:23



JLB

Thanks JLB. Now how about addressing Eph 2:8 and how Paul described salvation in the periphrastic perfect in "have been saved."

Saved in the past. Saved in the present. Saved in the future. And the periphrastic perfect is an emphatic,forceful way of saying something and leaves no loopholes.

Paul couldn't have described salvation like this if your theory is true. Show me that the periphrastic perfect is not in Eph 2:8. And I will look into your view.

 

[FreeGrace]

No.
She is represented in the second type of soil in the Parable of the Sower. When trial and tribulation came because of the gospel she fell away (Luke 8:13 NASB).

And your position is that she is now unsaved, right?

Works are not required for justification.

But works seem required to be UN-justified. bad works.

The person who has been justified by faith in the blood apart from their works is the person who then grows up into righteous work. That's why works accompany the faith that justifies all by itself.

If fasith justifies "all by itself", then let's not add that "works accompany the faith". That is contradictory. Either faith saves alone, or it doesn't. Simple as that. If works of necessity must accompany faith, then the faith was clearly NOT alone.

Your position is just trying to have it "both ways". The Bible won't let that happen.

Even Luther himself said that the faith that justifies alone is never alone. Did you know he said that? I'm guessing you did not know that.

So why is what Luther said so important? Did he get that from the Bible? No, he did not. And, of course, having debated Calvinists for years, yes, I already knew that. And am unimpressed with what Luther said. While he got justification by grace right, he still held on to a number of erroneous ideas.

I said this:
"Nope. Not at all. In fact, James 4:6 contradicts your position and view of God's matchless grace."

Where does that verse say God gives grace to the proud?

Huh? It doesn't. God gives grace to the humble. And you've once again dodged the point. God's grace is GREATER than all our sin. But your position doesn't believe that, does it.

'Hyper-grace' means to bend grace where it was not meant to go--like when you hyper-extend an elbow.

No, the word 'hyper' means "excess", or "too much", kinda like when bending your elbow in excess or too much.

There cannot be too much of God's grace. Which is why James wrote of God's GREATER grace. Your position only thinks so.

The very verse you quote in James 4:6 NASB to somehow defend OSAS is actually a verse that disproves 'hyper-grace' OSAS.

Nope. Your claim proves nothing.

Grace does not go to the proud.

iow, your position is that God does not save those who are proud, huh? Where does the Bible teach that one must, in addition to believing in Jesus Christ, become humble?

It's a place that you can not bend grace to go as 'hyper-grace' OSAS insists.

One simply cannot bend God's grace. It is GREATER than all our sin. Which is why the ONLY REASON we are saved at all is because of the grace of God. There is no such thing as excess grace or too much grace, as your position seems to think.

But I see this a lot--OSAS folk posting scriptures that are supposed to be teaching OSAS but which actually show non-OSAS.

Since James 4:6 doesn't shows loss of salvation, please back up your claim with any verse that is used of eternal security yet teaches LOS.

ps: this is a challenge. A non response will indicate all we need to know about your position. ;)

 

[FreeGrace]

Everybody who's been around tongue speaking Christians knows the argument for that gift ending is a joke.
And those same Christians know fake tongues from real tongues. My wife had the real thing. That signifies she had the indwelling Holy Spirit in justification/salvation. I say 'had' because she can no longer speak in tongues. That gift was revoked when she willfully entered into unbelief.

There's a much better (biblically based) answer to the issue here. If the gift of tongues is still in existence, it only works with the Holy Spirit. So because she no longer believes, she has fulfilled both Eph 4:30 and 1 Thess 5:19 about grieving and quenching the Holy Spirit.

 

[FreeGrace]

I said this:
"God's grace is greater than ALL our failures. But your position does not allow for that."

James does not say this.

Then what does he mean by "greater grace"?

These are your words.
JLB

Please give me your words.

 

[FreeGrace]

Here is my quote.
Here is the verse that supports what I said. -

7 He who overcomes shall inherit all things,and I will be his God and he shall be My son. 8 But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.” Revelations 21:7-8

Those who believe for awhile, then return to unbelieving... no longer believe.
JLB

What hasn't been proven is the claim that Rev 21:8 refers to a former believer. It's already been shown that "unbeliever" always refers to those who never believed.

And you've failed to provide any verse that describes a former believer as an "unbeliever".

The word used in the Bible is "apostate".

So your claim is invalid.

 

[JLB]

Saved in the past.

Yes saved [by faith; through faith] in the past.

JLB

 

[JLB]

What hasn't been proven is the claim that Rev 21:8 refers to a former believer. It's already been shown that "unbeliever" always refers to those who never believed.

And you've failed to provide any verse that describes a former believer as an "unbeliever".

The word used in the Bible is "apostate".

So your claim is invalid.

No scripture just opinion.

 

[JLB]

I said this:
"God's grace is greater than ALL our failures. But your position does not allow for that."

Then what does he mean by "greater grace"?


Please give me your words.

No scripture just opinion.

 

[JLB]

Revelation 21:7 is a great verse isn't it???

New King James Version (NKJV) 7 He who overcomes shall inherit all things,[M-Text reads overcomes, I shall give him these things] and I will be his God and he shall be My son.

Yes great verse.

Those who overcome.


The promise is not for those who don't overcome.


JLB

 

[gr8grace3]

Yes saved [by faith; through faith] in the past.

JLB

What about the periphrastic perfect in Eph 2:8 that I have been trying to get you to address?

Paul couldn't describe salvation like that if your theory is correct. Help me out on this specific point. If you can show me that he didn't use that type of phrase to describe salvation. My eyes may be opened to your description.

But even with this post you are all over the place. You just got done scolding me for believing I have been saved in the past because we don't get saved until the end. Now you are saying, Yes saved in the past?

 

[Jethro Bodine]

But works seem required to be UN-justified. bad works.

No, unbelief is required to lose your justification.
The lack of righteous work is simply the visible outcome of that loss of belief/ justification.

There is no such thing as excess grace or too much grace, as your position seems to think.

"6But He gives a greater grace. Therefore itsays, “GOD IS OPPOSED TO THE PROUD, BUT GIVES GRACE TO THE HUMBLE.”" (James 4:6 NASB caps in orig.)
Grace does not go to the proud. It's a place that you can not bend grace to go as 'hyper-grace' OSAS insists. But let me guess....once again we're going to be told that the verse 'doesn't really' mean what it says.

 

[FreeGrace]

I said this:
"What hasn't been proven is the claim that Rev 21:8 refers to a former believer. It's already been shown that "unbeliever" always refers to those who never believed.

And you've failed to provide any verse that describes a former believer as an "unbeliever".

The word used in the Bible is "apostate".

So your claim is invalid."

No scripture just opinion.

That's what my post was about: your position has no Scripture, just opinion.

 

[FreeGrace]

I said this:
"God's grace is greater than ALL our failures. But your position does not allow for that."

Then what does he mean by "greater grace"?

Please give me your words.

No scripture just opinion.

This response has no relevance to my comment. I asked what "greater grace" in James 4:6 meant, in your words.

The Scripture HAD BEEN GIVEN. I was asking for your understanding of that Scripture.

So I DID have Scripture and was asking for YOUR opinion.

Therefore, your response was nonsensical.

 

[FreeGrace]

No, unbelief is required to lose your justification.

How come there are no verses that teach this notion?

 

[chessman]

The promise is not for those who don't overcome.

Overcome (which is in the present tense in the verse) but means to carry off the victory, come off victorious.

Imagine that, God's word promising a furure inheritance based overcoming in the present. And some people are anti-OSAS??? Odd.

 

[gr8grace3]

No, unbelief is required to lose your justification.
The lack of righteous work is simply the visible outcome of that loss of belief/ justification.


"6But He gives a greater grace. Therefore itsays, “GOD IS OPPOSED TO THE PROUD, BUT GIVES GRACE TO THE HUMBLE.”" (James 4:6 NASB caps in orig.)
Grace does not go to the proud. It's a place that you can not bend grace to go as 'hyper-grace' OSAS insists. But let me guess....once again we're going to be told that the verse 'doesn't really' mean what it says.

Just curious. In your Christian walk have you personally given grace to the proud? Or have you kicked em all to the curb?

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Just curious. In your Christian walk have you personally given grace to the proud? Or have you kicked em all to the curb?

Here's what freegrace was arguing:

Again, the pejorative use of the term "hyper-grace" only reveals your contempt for the matchless grace of God.

You've quoted James in this post that I am responding to. Why not accept and quote ALL of what he wrote? Such as:
James 4:6
But He gives a greater grace. Therefore it says, "GOD IS OPPOSED TO THE PROUD, BUT GIVES GRACE TO THE HUMBLE. NASU
James 4:6
But he gives us more grace. That is why Scripture says: NIV
James 4:6
But the grace he gives is greater, which is why it says, CJB

God's grace is greater than ALL our failures. But your position does not allow for that.

He tried to use James 4:6 to show that grace goes everywhere in salvation, even to the proud. But a simple third grade read of the verse shows the proud do NOT get grace, but rather they get opposed. You have to stop being proud and become humble in order to receive God's grace. He apparently was oblivious to the fact that the verse actually teaches the exact opposite of what he was trying to use the verse to prove. It actually disproves the notion of 'hyper-grace'. There is a place the grace of God can not go. If you say it goes there then you are hyper-extending the grace of God and saying it goes where it in fact does not go.

So we see, contrary to hyper-grace OSAS doctrine, God's grace does not cover the arrogance of the former believer who is now living in willful unbelief. If he does not humble himself before being turned over to that unbelief he will lose God's grace because God's grace does not follow him into his subsequent contemptuous mistrust of the gospel, but rather God will oppose him. That's what the verse says. God opposes the proud.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

How come there are no verses that teach this notion?

"1Now I make known to you, brethren, the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received, in which also you stand, 2by which also you are saved, if you hold fast the word which I preached to you, unless you believed in vain (that is, unless the gospel is fake and Christ has not really risen from the dead-vs.14,17)." (1 Corinthians 15:1-2 NASB bold and parenthesis mine)

Remember, you have all tried over and over to make this simple third grade read of scripture 'not really' mean what it so plainly says. The condition for being saved is that you hold fast the word of the gospel (unless Christ did not really rise from the dead and the gospel is fake and unable to save anyway, which we know is not the case).

Traditional OSAS says the real believer can not, and never will, stop believing. Hyper-grace OSAS goes in complete and utter opposition of the passage and says you are still saved even if you do not hold fast the word of the gospel. It's been interesting to see hyper-grace assail the passage with successive arguments, none of which have made it so the passage doesn't really mean what it so plainly says. That's why it can't be defeated--it plainly says what it says.