1 Peter 1:23 is about eternal security

[chessman]

(1 Corinthians 15:1-2 NASB bold and parenthesis mine)

Remember, you have all tried over and over to make this simple third grade read of scripture 'not really' mean what it so plainly says

Speaking of simple third grade reading skills;

IF you are in the fourth grade presently you have pasted the third grade test. THEN you are in the fourth grade. By passing the third grade tests you are in the fourth grade presently. ELSE you failed the third grade tests. RIGHT?

Speaking of 1 Cor 15:1-2;

IF you hold fast the Gospel-if you hold firmly (present tense) to the word which I preached (past tense) to you

THEN you are saved-By this faith you are saved (present tense) reborn from above—spiritually transformed, renewed, and set apart for His purpose

ELSE you are lost-unless you believed (past tense) in vain just superficially and without complete commitment

 

[Jethro Bodine]

unless you believed (past tense) in vain just superficially and without complete commitment

That's not what the passage says.

"13But if there is no resurrection of the dead, not even Christ has been raised; 14and if Christ has not been raised, then our preaching is vain, your faith also is vain. 15Moreover we are even found to be false witnesses of God, because we testified against God that He raised Christ, whom He did not raise, if in fact the dead are not raised. 16For if the dead are not raised, not even Christ has been raised; 17and if Christ has not been raised, your faith is worthless; you are still in your sins." (1 Corinthians 15:13-17 NASB)

Simple third grade read here folks. The 'unless' is whether or not Christ has really been raised from the dead, not whether or not the Corinthians believed with full commitment. That is no where in the passage.

 

[FreeGrace]

Here's what freegrace was arguing:

​

He tried to use James 4:6 to show that grace goes everywhere in salvation, even to the proud.

This clearly shows just how much your position does NOT understand grace at all. If grace doesn't "go everywhere in salvation", then NO ONE would get saved, period. Yourself included.

But a simple third grade read of the verse shows the proud do NOT get grace, but rather they get opposed.

God opposes every sin. Nothing new here.

And a second grade read of the verse shows that God's grace is greater for the humble. It isn't even speaking about salvation.

 

[FreeGrace]

"1Now I make known to you, brethren, the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received, in which also you stand, 2by which also you are saved, if you hold fast the word which I preached to you, unless you believed in vain (that is, unless the gospel is fake and Christ has not really risen from the dead-vs.14,17)." (1 Corinthians 15:1-2 NASB bold and parenthesis mine)

I've already thoroughly explained this verse. And shown that it doesn't come close to meaning what your claim is.

Basically, "you are saved if you hold fast (possess) the Word which I preached" means this:
you are saved if you possess eternal life that I preached to you.

The phrase "unless you believed in vain" means believing in Christ for any other reason than salvation. Those who believe in Christ according to the health and wealth TV preachers aren't saved. Christ didn't die for people's health or wealth.

So, when you stated: "unbelief is required to lose your justification", I responded with
"How come there are no verses that teach this notion?"

My question stands.

Traditional OSAS says the real believer can not, and never will, stop believing.

Who cares about "traditional"? That's Calvinism, and the Bible is very clear that believers can stop believing. Jesus even made that point in the parable of the soils. So let's leave the errors of Calvinism out of this.

Hyper-grace OSAS goes in complete and utter opposition of the passage and says you are still saved even if you do not hold fast the word of the gospel.

No, not even close. I've just, once again, explained what the verse means. Those who HAVE believed HAVE eternal life. They possess it.

When the Word of God is preached (the gospel), and people believe the gospel, they are saved, and they HAVE eternal life. We all know the many verses that say this plainly. That's what 1 Cor 15:2 is about; possession, not one's grip strength.

It's been interesting to see hyper-grace assail the passage with successive arguments, none of which have made it so the passage doesn't really mean what it so plainly says. That's why it can't be defeated--it plainly says what it says.

So then, prove that my paraphrase can't be right. Not by mere claims, but with substantive evidence.

What your position has failed to do is even bother with what words mean. I've given the Greek meaning for "hold fast" and yet your position continues to treat the word as though one must keep holding on.

It is your position that has failed to understand the passage. And you've done nothing to show that my understanding can't be right.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

This clearly shows just how much your position does NOT understand grace at all. If grace doesn't "go everywhere in salvation", then NO ONE would get saved, period. Yourself included.


God opposes every sin. Nothing new here.

And a second grade read of the verse shows that God's grace is greater for the humble. It isn't even speaking about salvation.

Lol, you are the one who used James 4:6 in the context of OSAS.
(I knew you'd go here )

So, stop evading the argument YOU BROUGHT UP and explain how even the arrogant, willful, proud, boastful, disobedient, formerly believing 'believer' still has God's grace.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

The phrase "unless you believed in vain" means believing in Christ for any other reason than salvation.

Good grief, freegrace. Are you asking us to ignore the context AGAIN!
The hallmark of false doctrine--unrightly dividing the Word of God.

 

[FreeGrace]

Lol, you are the one who used James 4:6 in the context of OSAS.
(I knew you'd go here )

So, stop evading the argument YOU BROUGHT UP and explain how even the arrogant, willful, proud, boastful, disobedient, formerly believing 'believer' still has God's grace.

Because of what James said about God's grace. It's greater.

Are you actually suggesting that any believer who still exhibits arrogance, boasting, and disobedience loses salvation on that basis?

If so, then please explain what exactly did Christ die for?

Your position continues to reveal a woeful ignorance of the grace of God.

God can oppose any of His children for an unChristian lifestyle. That doesn't mean they lose salvation.

 

[FreeGrace]

Good grief, freegrace. Are you asking us to ignore the context AGAIN!
The hallmark of false doctrine--unrightly dividing the Word of God.

Your position has done that in spades!!

Rather than your typical disagreement and criticism of my views, how about finally addressing them and showing how they are in error??

Claims keep getting thrown around, but there is no credible evidence of truth in them.

If I've ignored context, prove it with substance, not empty words.

My explanation of 1 Cor 15:2 shows how to rightly divide the word of truth. You've not shown otherwise. Just empty words of criticism.

 

[JLB]

Overcome (which is in the present tense in the verse) but means to carry off the victory, come off victorious.

Imagine that, God's word promising a furure inheritance based overcoming in the present. And some people are anti-OSAS??? Odd.

Those who overcome, present tense, shall inherit all things.
Those who overcome, shall not be "blotted out" of the book of life.

7 He who overcomes shall inherit all things,and I will be his God and he shall be My son. 8 But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.” Revelation 21:7-8

This was written to Christians.

Christians who overcome in this present life, will in the future, inherit the kingdom of God, and not be blotted out of the book of life.

Being in the book of life, then being "blotted out" of the book of life, shows clearly that a person can indeed lose their salvation.

Unless you can show some verse's that teach us a person who has been blotted out of the book of life is still, somehow "in" the book of life, then you are pursuing and teaching an unbiblical doctrine.

Likewise, you must show from the scriptures, that a person who is "in Christ", then later removed from Christ, is still somehow "in Christ", and still saved, for your doctrine to be true.

“I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser. 2 Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit He prunes, that it may bear more fruit. 3 You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you. 4 Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in Me.

5 “I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing. 6 If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned.
John 15:1-6



JLB

 

[dirtfarmer]

"1Now I make known to you, brethren, the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received, in which also you stand, 2by which also you are saved, if you hold fast the word which I preached to you, unless you believed in vain (that is, unless the gospel is fake and Christ has not really risen from the dead-vs.14,17)." (1 Corinthians 15:1-2 NASB bold and parenthesis mine)

Remember, you have all tried over and over to make this simple third grade read of scripture 'not really' mean what it so plainly says. The condition for being saved is that you hold fast the word of the gospel (unless Christ did not really rise from the dead and the gospel is fake and unable to save anyway, which we know is not the case).

Traditional OSAS says the real believer can not, and never will, stop believing. Hyper-grace OSAS goes in complete and utter opposition of the passage and says you are still saved even if you do not hold fast the word of the gospel. It's been interesting to see hyper-grace assail the passage with successive arguments, none of which have made it so the passage doesn't really mean what it so plainly says. That's why it can't be defeated--it plainly says what it says.

hello Jethro Bodine, dirtfarmer here

What is in reference to 1 Corinthians 15 is not the loss of salvation, but believing in vain, without basis, not believing in the resurrection of the body. Verse 12 states," Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some of you that there is no resurrection of the dead?" In verse 14 what was it that made the preaching of Christ in vain? " If Christ be not risen."
v15 " Yea, and we are found false witnesses of God, because we testified of God that he raised up Christ: whom he raised not up, if so be the dead raise not ."

If you continue through the rest of chapter 15 , it is about the resurrection of the body.

 

[JLB]

What hasn't been proven is the claim that Rev 21:8 refers to a former believer. It's already been shown that "unbeliever" always refers to those who never believed.

And you've failed to provide any verse that describes a former believer as an "unbeliever".

The word used in the Bible is "apostate".

So your claim is invalid.

13 But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away. Luke 8:13

Please explain,with scripture, how a person who believes for a while, then no longer believes, so that they fall away, is still somehow a believer?


What you have never been able to prove is how a person can be "in the book of life", then later, be "blotted out" of the book of life and still be saved.

5 He who overcomes shall be clothed in white garments, and I will not blot out his name from the Book of Life; but I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels. Revelation 3:5


What you have never been able to prove, is how someone can be "in Christ" then later, removed from Christ, and still somehow be saved?

“I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser. 2 Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit He prunes, that it may bear more fruit. 3 You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you. 4 Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in Me.
5 “I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing. 6 If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned.
John 15:1-6

The reason you can't do this, is because you can't "explain away" the phrase "they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned".


JLB

 

[JLB]

What about the periphrastic perfect in Eph 2:8 that I have been trying to get you to address?

Paul couldn't describe salvation like that if your theory is correct. Help me out on this specific point. If you can show me that he didn't use that type of phrase to describe salvation. My eyes may be opened to your description.

But even with this post you are all over the place. You just got done scolding me for believing I have been saved in the past because we don't get saved until the end. Now you are saying, Yes saved in the past?

Yes saved by faith, in the past, in which the end result of your faith, is the salvation of your soul.

If you have faith for something, then you don't actually have the thing, but rather, you have hope for the thing you do not yet see.

Faith is: the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

6 In this you greatly rejoice, though now for a little while, if need be, you have been grieved by various trials, 7 that the genuineness of your faith, being much more precious than gold that perishes, though it is tested by fire, may be found to praise, honor, and glory at the revelation of Jesus Christ, 8 whom having not seen you love. Though now you do not see Him, yet believing, you rejoice with joy inexpressible and full of glory, 9 receiving the end of your faith—the salvation of your souls. 1 Peter 1:6-9

As long as a person continues in the faith, then they have the substance of the thing they are hoping for.

Depart from the faith you have in Christ, and you no longer have the substance of the thing you are hoping for, as the Holy Spirit warns us through Paul about this very thing occurring in the last days.

Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons,2 speaking lies in hypocrisy, having their own conscience seared with a hot iron, 3 forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from foods which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and know the truth. 4 For every creature of God is good, and nothing is to be refused if it is received with thanksgiving; 5 for it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.
1 Timothy 4:1-5

My desire is for you and everyone else to be aware of this, and to guard your heart, and to continue in the faith to the faith, even in the face of persecution, or worldly pleasures.


This is the twofold warning from the Lord, to His Apostles in the parable of the Sower.

It is even more true today, as the end of the age draws near.

11 “Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God. 12 Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.13 But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away. 14 Now the ones that fell among thorns are those who, when they have heard, go out and are choked with cares, riches, and pleasures of life, and bring no fruit to maturity. 15 But the ones that fell on the good ground are those who, having heard the word with a noble and good heart, keep it and bear fruit with patience. Luke 8:11-15

Persecution:

13 But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away. Luke 8:13


Worldly Pleasures:

14 Now the ones that fell among thorns are those who, when they have heard, go out and are choked with cares, riches, and pleasures of life, and bring no fruit to maturity. Luke 8:14


Please take heed, when you think you stand, lest you fall.

This warning is for me, first, then to those who have ears to hear.

But we are not of those who draw back to perdition, but of those who believe to the saving of the soul. Hebrews 10:39



JLB

 

[dirtfarmer]

dirtfarmer here

Is salvation that is not eternal salvation at all? It seem to me that it is a reprieve, a putting off to some later date of time. If it is up to us humans to keep ourselves saved then did Jesus lie when in John 5:24 he states; " Verily, verily, I say unto you, he that heareth my word and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but has passed from death unto life."

 

[chessman]

Simple third grade read here folks. The 'unless' is whether or not Christ has really been raised from the dead, not whether or not the Corinthians believed with full commitment. That is no where in the passage.

That's incorrect third grade grammar. The verb "believed" in 1 Cor 15:2 is an action word attributed to the action (belief in this case) of the Corinthians, not to Christ. Yes, verse 2 is about a their vain belief. Vain is an adverb modifying their belief. I'm sure you desire it not to be their past belief. But facts are facts. Third grade facts in this case.

1 Corinthians 15:2 (LEB) ... unless you believed to no purpose.​

"Unless" (except) and "no purpose" are not even a verbs. They are adverbs. "Unless" is used as conditional. "to no purpose" is used as a verb modifier.

You are being saved unless you believed in a vain (no purpose) way. Plainly, that's what Paul is communicating.

You (Corinthians) are either saved or you are not. And furthermore, Paul conditions their present salvation on whether they believed in vain in the past (or not). Simple logic and "third grade" grammar.

Verse 14 is different syntax than 1-2, a different logical form. Related, sure. But a different syntax is used. And Paul makes different points. Thus a different verse. He even uses different adverbs:

1 Corinthians 15:2 (LEB) ... unless you believed to no purpose.​

1500eikḗ – properly, without cause (ground), without basis and therefore not to be taken seriously (considered valid). This adverb suggests, "What goes to no purpose".
http://biblehub.com/greek/1500.htm

1 Corinthians 15:14 (NASB) and if Christ has not been raised, then our preaching is vain, your faith also is vain. ​

2756kenós – properly, empty, void; hence, worthless ("null"), amounting to zero (of no value, profit)
http://biblehub.com/greek/2756.htm

Two points are made in v14 (three really in the next verse):

IF Christ has not been raised
THEN our preaching is in vain AND your faith is vain (AND our witness is false, v15).

 

[chessman]

Christians who overcome in this present life, will in the future, inherit the kingdom of God, ...

Well now, there's an AMEN and AMEN.

I simply believe that truth. It's God's truth. It simply must be the case. Thus I'm 100% OSAS. Not 50/50.

Believing now in the present has future consequences, truthfully.

He who overcomes shall inherit all things,and I will be his God and he shall be My son. ...

This was written to Christians.

It's a statement of truth being made to everyone (Christians and non-Christians who read it).

Think it thru. "I will be his God and he shall be My son". As a Christian/overcomer, is not God already our God and we His sons??? Yes. BUT, is a non-Christian a son of God already??? No.

Being in the book of life, then being "blotted out" of the book of life, shows clearly that a person can indeed lose their salvation.

Only if someone presupposes that's what it means.

What's wrong with being "blotted out of the book of life" showing clearly/exactly what it says? It shows that a person can indeed lose their life!

 

[JLB]

dirtfarmer here

Is salvation that is not eternal salvation at all? It seem to me that it is a reprieve, a putting off to some later date of time. If it is up to us humans to keep ourselves saved then did Jesus lie when in John 5:24 he states; " Verily, verily, I say unto you, he that heareth my word and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but has passed from death unto life."

“Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life.

• First Point: The Key to Salvation; Believe.

13 But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away. Luke 8:13

Can you honestly say that those who believe for a while, then no longer believe: Still believe to the end ?

• Second Point: Some who are resurrected will be condemned. It is to those who attain to the resurrection and receive an immortal body that will never die, that have everlasting life. Salvation is associated with the resurrection and redemption of the body.

24 “Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life. 25 Most assuredly, I say to you, the hour is coming, and now is, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God; and those who hear will live. 26 For as the Father has life in Himself, so He has granted the Son to have life in Himself, 27 and has given Him authority to execute judgment also, because He is the Son of Man. 28 Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice 29 and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation. John 5:24-29

• Jesus gave us an example of what this will look like when He returns, and gathers His people on Earth, on the Day of Judgement.
• His servants who are gathered before His throne, on the Day of Judgement, are described in the following teaching.

31 “When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory. 32 All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them one from another, as a shepherd divides his sheep from the goats. 33 And He will set the sheep on His right hand, but the goats on the left. 34 Then the King will say to those on His right hand, ‘Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: 35 for I was hungry and you gave Me food; I was thirsty and you gave Me drink; I was a stranger and you took Me in; 36 I was naked and you clothed Me; I was sick and you visited Me; I was in prison and you came to Me.’

37 “Then the righteous will answer Him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry and feed You, or thirsty and give You drink? 38 When did we see You a stranger and take You in, or naked and clothe You? 39 Or when did we see You sick, or in prison, and come to You?’ 40 And the King will answer and say to them, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did itto one of the least of these My brethren, you did it to Me.’

41 “Then He will also say to those on the left hand, ‘Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels: 42 for I was hungry and you gave Me no food; I was thirsty and you gave Me no drink; 43 I was a stranger and you did not take Me in, naked and you did not clothe Me, sick and in prison and you did not visit Me.’

44 “Then they also will answer Him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to You?’ 45 Then He will answer them, saying, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.’ 46 And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”
Matthew 25:31-46

• John 5 - all who are in the graves will hear His voice 29 and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation.

Key Understanding: Those who have done good vs. those who have done evil.

• Romans 2 - But in accordance with your hardness and your impenitent heart you are treasuring up for yourself wrath in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God, 6 who “will render to each one according to his deeds”:7 eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; 8 but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath, Romans 2:5-8

Key Understanding: God will render to each one according to his deeds.



34 Then the King will say to those on His right hand, ‘Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: 35 for I was hungry and you gave Me food; I was thirsty and you gave Me drink; I was a stranger and you took Me in; 36 I was naked and you clothed Me; I was sick and you visited Me; I was in prison and you came to Me.’

41 “Then He will also say to those on the left hand, ‘Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:42 for I was hungry and you gave Me no food; I was thirsty and you gave Me no drink; 43 I was a stranger and you did not take Me in, naked and you did not clothe Me, sick and in prison and you did not visit Me.’

Key Understanding: These servants of Jesus Christ were judged according to their deeds: Some to the resurrection of life, and others to the resurrection of condemnation, just as He taught in John 5.




JLB

 

[JLB]

Only if someone presupposes that's what it means.

What's wrong with being "blotted out of the book of life" showing clearly/exactly what it says? It shows that a person can indeed lose their life!

Yes, lose their eternal life.


Case Closed.



JLB

 

[JLB]

Here are some promises from God about our future;

Isaiah 25
6: On this mountain the LORD of hosts will make for all peoples a feast of fat things, a feast of wine on the lees, of fat things full of marrow, of wine on the lees well refined.
7: And he will destroy on this mountain the covering that is cast over all peoples, the veil that is spread over all nations.
8: He will swallow up death for ever, and the Lord GOD will wipe away tears from all faces, and the reproach of his people he will take away from all the earth; for the LORD has spoken.
9: It will be said on that day, "Lo, this is our God; we have waited for him, that he might save us. This is the LORD; we have waited for him; let us be glad and rejoice in his salvation."

Isaiah 43
1: But now thus says the LORD, he who created you, O Jacob, he who formed you, O Israel: "Fear not, for I have redeemed you; I have called you by name, you are mine.
2: When you pass through the waters I will be with you; and through the rivers, they shall not overwhelm you; when you walk through fire you shall not be burned, and the flame shall not consume you.

Psalm 67
0: To the choirmaster: with stringed instruments. A Psalm. A Song.
1: May God be gracious to us and bless us and make his face to shine upon us, [Selah]
2: that thy way may be known upon earth, thy saving power among all nations.
3: Let the peoples praise thee, O God; let all the peoples praise thee!
4: Let the nations be glad and sing for joy, for thou dost judge the peoples with equity and guide the nations upon earth. [Selah]
5: Let the peoples praise thee, O God; let all the peoples praise thee!
6: The earth has yielded its increase; God, our God, has blessed us.
7: God has blessed us; let all the ends of the earth fear him!

Isaiah 45:
20: "Assemble yourselves and come, draw near together, you survivors of the nations! They have no knowledge who carry about their wooden idols, and keep on praying to a god that cannot save.
21: Declare and present your case; let them take counsel together! Who told this long ago? Who declared it of old? Was it not I, the LORD? And there is no other god besides me, a righteous God and a Savior; there is none besides me.
22: "Turn to me and be saved, all the ends of the earth! For I am God, and there is no other.
23: By myself I have sworn, from my mouth has gone forth in righteousness a word that shall not return: `To me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear.'
24: "Only in the LORD, it shall be said of me, are righteousness and strength; to him shall come and be ashamed, all who were incensed against him.
25: In the LORD all the offspring of Israel shall triumph and glory."

Titus 2:11
11: For the grace of God has appeared for the salvation of all men,

I Timothy 4:10
10: For to this end we toil and strive, because we have our hope set on the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of those who believe.

Micah 4:
6: In that day, says the LORD, I will assemble the lame and gather those who have been driven away, and those whom I have afflicted;
7: and the lame I will make the remnant; and those who were cast off, a strong nation; and the LORD will reign over them in Mount Zion from this time forth and for evermore.

Psalm 22:
25: From thee comes my praise in the great congregation; my vows I will pay before those who fear him.
26: The afflicted shall eat and be satisfied; those who seek him shall praise the LORD! May your hearts live for ever!
27: All the ends of the earth shall remember and turn to the LORD; and all the families of the nations shall worship before him.
28: For dominion belongs to the LORD, and he rules over the nations.
29: Yea, to him shall all the proud of the earth bow down; before him shall bow all who go down to the dust, and he who cannot keep himself alive.
30: Posterity shall serve him; men shall tell of the Lord to the coming generation,
31: and proclaim his deliverance to a people yet unborn, that he has wrought it.

Jesus and all us saints who came after the prophets came to claim the salvation of ALL God's created man created both male and female.

All God's created men and women who believe... and continue to believe.

These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life, and that you may continue to believe in the name of the Son of God. 1 John 5:13

21 And you, who once were alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now He has reconciled 22 in the body of His flesh through death, to present you holy, and blameless, and above reproach in His sight— 23 if indeed you continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast, and are not moved away from the hope of the gospel which you heard, which was preached to every creature under heaven, of which I, Paul, became a minister. Colossians 1:21-23


5 And Moses indeed was faithful in all His house as a servant, for a testimony of those things which would be spoken afterward, 6 but Christ as a Son over His own house, whose house we are if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm to the end. Hebrews 3:5-6

• We will be a part of Christ and His house, if we hold fast the rejoicing of our hope to the end. Unlike those who rejoiced and believed for a while then fell away in time of persecution. [See Luke 8:13]

12 Beware, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God; 13 but exhort one another daily, while it is called “Today,” lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. 14 For we have become partakers of Christ if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end, Hebrews 3:12-14

• We will be partakers of Christ [Who is our eternal life], if we do not depart from Him [Fall away] and hold the beginning of our confidence [substance of our faith] to the end.

JLB

 

[dirtfarmer]

“Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life.

• First Point: The Key to Salvation; Believe.

13 But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away. Luke 8:13

Can you honestly say that those who believe for a while, then no longer believe: Still believe to the end ?

• Second Point: Some who are resurrected will be condemned. It is to those who attain to the resurrection and receive an immortal body that will never die, that have everlasting life. Salvation is associated with the resurrection and redemption of the body.

24 “Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life. 25 Most assuredly, I say to you, the hour is coming, and now is, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God; and those who hear will live. 26 For as the Father has life in Himself, so He has granted the Son to have life in Himself, 27 and has given Him authority to execute judgment also, because He is the Son of Man. 28 Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice 29 and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation. John 5:24-29

• Jesus gave us an example of what this will look like when He returns, and gathers His people on Earth, on the Day of Judgement.
• His servants who are gathered before His throne, on the Day of Judgement, are described in the following teaching.

31 “When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory. 32 All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them one from another, as a shepherd divides his sheep from the goats. 33 And He will set the sheep on His right hand, but the goats on the left. 34 Then the King will say to those on His right hand, ‘Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: 35 for I was hungry and you gave Me food; I was thirsty and you gave Me drink; I was a stranger and you took Me in; 36 I was naked and you clothed Me; I was sick and you visited Me; I was in prison and you came to Me.’

37 “Then the righteous will answer Him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry and feed You, or thirsty and give You drink? 38 When did we see You a stranger and take You in, or naked and clothe You? 39 Or when did we see You sick, or in prison, and come to You?’ 40 And the King will answer and say to them, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did itto one of the least of these My brethren, you did it to Me.’

41 “Then He will also say to those on the left hand, ‘Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels: 42 for I was hungry and you gave Me no food; I was thirsty and you gave Me no drink; 43 I was a stranger and you did not take Me in, naked and you did not clothe Me, sick and in prison and you did not visit Me.’

44 “Then they also will answer Him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to You?’ 45 Then He will answer them, saying, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.’ 46 And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”
Matthew 25:31-46

• John 5 - all who are in the graves will hear His voice 29 and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation.

Key Understanding: Those who have done good vs. those who have done evil.

• Romans 2 - But in accordance with your hardness and your impenitent heart you are treasuring up for yourself wrath in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God, 6 who “will render to each one according to his deeds”:7 eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; 8 but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath, Romans 2:5-8

Key Understanding: God will render to each one according to his deeds.



34 Then the King will say to those on His right hand, ‘Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: 35 for I was hungry and you gave Me food; I was thirsty and you gave Me drink; I was a stranger and you took Me in; 36 I was naked and you clothed Me; I was sick and you visited Me; I was in prison and you came to Me.’

41 “Then He will also say to those on the left hand, ‘Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:42 for I was hungry and you gave Me no food; I was thirsty and you gave Me no drink; 43 I was a stranger and you did not take Me in, naked and you did not clothe Me, sick and in prison and you did not visit Me.’

Key Understanding: These servants of Jesus Christ were judged according to their deeds: Some to the resurrection of life, and others to the resurrection of condemnation, just as He taught in John 5.




JLB

hello JLB, dirtfarmer here

1 Corinthians 6:2-3 " Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters? Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life? Matthew 25 is about the judgment of the nations after the tribulation. The saints will never be judged by angels.

If we are judged by our works for entrance into heaven, that is a gospel of works, not the gospel of the grace of God.

 

[chessman]

Yes, lose their eternal life.


Case Closed.

When someone adds words to the Texts to 'make' them say things they don't actually say, the case is closed for them, yes.

There is no verse that says someone will 'lose their eternal life'. Thus, you try creating them. It's quite contradictory really. As if that life they received upon believing were not really eternal.

Odd really why someone would think eternal life is not eternal. Or why being blotted out of the book of life means means anything other than death.