Bible Study 1John 3:9 What does it mean?

[bcbsr]

1John 3:
9 No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God.
10 This is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are: Anyone who does not do what is right is not a child of God; nor is anyone who does not love his brother.

What does verse 9 means? Just for starters, the fact that verse 10 indicates that verse 9 is something visible, even measureable to the point of distinguishing children of God from children of the devil eliminates interpretations like this is referring to something merely internal to those born of God.

Nor is it referring to perfect behavior, as 1John 2:1;1:8,10; not to mention Gal 5:17 all indicate those born of God will sin from time to time.

What I find interesting about 1John is that in the Greek whenever John is referring to lifestyle he uses the present tense. And whenever John is referring to a snapshot event, or a behavior uncharacteristic of the person, he uses the aorist (which we don't have in English and so you lose something in the translation).

In this case John is saying that sinning is uncharacteristic of those born of God, not denying that it doesn't occur uncharactertically from time to time. Those born of God don't live a lifestyle of sin. And this is a distinguishing mark of those born of God. Thus when Paul says, "Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God." 1Cor 6:9,10 it is not that salvation is contingent upon one's behavior, but rather that there simply doesn't exists any such person who lives a lifestyle of sin who has been born of God.

 

[Tony Hyman]

If we go back to Gen 3 where mankind fell into disfavour with God.which made and still renders all mankind "unrighteous"ie. God turned His back on mankind,because of the sin of Adam and Eve.Under the Old Covenant sacrifices had to be made to God under the Law of Moses see Ex. 25 and the Book of Levitcus .
Under the New Covenant we are no longer tagged as "sinners" along with the rest of mankind.If we accept Christ as our saviour from the sins of Adam we have immunity from the original overall condemnation Gen 3.
Therefore under the immunity of the "once off" sacrifice of Christ "offered himself unblemished to God, cleanse our consciences from acts that lead to death.15. For this reason Christ is the mediator of a new covenant...the promised eternal inheritance.(Heb.9, 14-15) Now things get interesting as we get to work "As for you, you were dead in your transgressions(ie saved from Gen 3.) 2. in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air.(Satan) the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient."Eph. 2, 1-10 to get the full picture.

I John 2 is not referring to sinless daily perfect behaviour it is referring to the general condemnation under Gen 3..That is why he also says "If we claim to be without sin we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us."1 John 8 .We have the privilege to " confess our sins " verse 9 .These being the daily sins which Christians also commit.We have the privilege of direct access to God which the OT believers never had under the Levitical System.In order to be like Christ which is the only way God sees us. Is to daily admit our sins and strive to improve through genuine repentance.

 

[FreeGrace]

Great question! Considering what Paul wrote in Romans 6 and 7 and Gal 5:17 about our conflicting natures, 1 Jn 3:9 seems to say that we don't sin from our new nature. Remember the phrase "God's seed remains in him". This has to be a reference to our new nature. So, believers cannot sin from their new nature.

This would lead to the conclusion that the Holy Spirit actually resides in our new nature. So, when we grieve (Eph 5:18) or quench (1 Thess 5:19) the Holy Spirit, we are not functioning from our new nature, but from our human, sinful nature.

 

[Deborah13]

Those born of God don't live a lifestyle of sin.

Characteristics of.....

The born of God:
1Jn 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

Which is characteristic of those who do not walk in the light ?
1Jn 1:10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

 

[bcbsr]

Characteristics of.....

The born of God:
1Jn 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

Which is characteristic of those who do not walk in the light ?
1Jn 1:10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

I don't understand your question. You ask "Which is characteristic of those who do not walk in the light?" "Which" implies two alternatives. Which two alternatives are you referring to? Maybe you could phrase it:

Which of these two are characteristic of those who do not walk in the light:
A: (Fill in the blank)
B: (Fill in the blank)

That would clarify what you're asking.

Thanks

 

[Deborah13]

I don't understand your question. You ask "Which is characteristic of those who do not walk in the light?" "Which" implies two alternatives. Which two alternatives are you referring to? Maybe you could phrase it:

Which of these two are characteristic of those who do not walk in the light:
A: (Fill in the blank)
B: (Fill in the blank)

That would clarify what you're asking.

Thanks

Sorry I wasn't clear. I answered my own question with the scripture below it.
It should have said, "What is characteristic......"

 

[jocor]

Those born of God don't live a lifestyle of sin. And this is a distinguishing mark of those born of God. Thus when Paul says, "Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God." 1Cor 6:9,10 it is not that salvation is contingent upon one's behavior, but rather that there simply doesn't exists any such person who lives a lifestyle of sin who has been born of God.

That is the correct sense of 1 John 3:9. The NASB brings out that sense thusly:

No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.​

 

[FreeGrace]

That is the correct sense of 1 John 3:9. The NASB brings out that sense thusly:

No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.​

The problem is the phrase "and he CANNOT SIN". Well, John already noted in ch 1 that believers STILL sin.
1:6 - 6 If we say that we have fellowship with Him and yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth;
1:8 - 8If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us.
1:10 - 10If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar and His word is not in us.

John did not say that those who walk in darkness, not practice the truth, have no sin, deceive themselves, have no truth in them, say that we have not sinned, are not saved. He's describing carnal believers. Those who live to the flesh.

So, 3:9 isn't saying that born again people cannot sin. The phrase "because His seed abides in him" speaks directly to our new nature, from which we get the terms "regeneration", "born again", "new birth".

iow, from our new nature, because it is "His seed" in us, we CANNOT sin. So, where do we sin from? Our sinful nature, the one we are all born with.

 

[bcbsr]

The problem is the phrase "and he CANNOT SIN". Well, John already noted in ch 1 that believers STILL sin.
1:6 - 6 If we say that we have fellowship with Him and yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth;
1:8 - 8If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us.
1:10 - 10If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar and His word is not in us.

John did not say that those who walk in darkness, not practice the truth, have no sin, deceive themselves, have no truth in them, say that we have not sinned, are not saved. He's describing carnal believers. Those who live to the flesh.

So, 3:9 isn't saying that born again people cannot sin. The phrase "because His seed abides in him" speaks directly to our new nature, from which we get the terms "regeneration", "born again", "new birth".

iow, from our new nature, because it is "His seed" in us, we CANNOT sin. So, where do we sin from? Our sinful nature, the one we are all born with.

"if we say" doesn't not engender regeneration. Those are referring to Christians in name only.

As for "cannot sin" referring to the new nature, that which is characteristic of the new nature becomes evident in one's outward behavior to such an extent that John writes in verse 10 such behavior is the dinguishing mark between children of God and children of the devil.

And thus Paul writes of those who live a lifstyle of sin, "Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God." Gal 5:19-21

 

[FreeGrace]

"if we say" doesn't not engender regeneration. Those are referring to Christians in name only.

The only thing that "engenders" regeneration is faith in Christ. John is setting up a scenario where believers may make a certain statement. There is no evidence that John didn't consider them to be saved. A simple reading of ch 1 should make that quite clear.

As for "cannot sin" referring to the new nature, that which is characteristic of the new nature becomes evident in one's outward behavior to such an extent that John writes in verse 10 such behavior is the dinguishing mark between children of God and children of the devil.

John also made the point that believers who say they don't sin are liars (ch 1).

The point remains that we CANNOT SIN from our new nature. Why is that such a wrong view?

The fact that believers cannot sin from their new nature is complementary to Paul's writings about grieving (Eph 4:30), quenching (1 Thess 5:19), being filled (Eph 5:18) and walking by means of the Holy Spirit (Gal 5:16). iow, when a believer does grieve/quench the Spirit, they are doing so from their sinful nature. But, when being filled and walking by means of the Holy Spirit, they are doing so from their new nature.

How is this incorrect?

And thus Paul writes of those who live a lifstyle of sin, "Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God." Gal 5:19-21

To "inherit the kingdom of God" speaks to the eternal reward of reigning with Christ in His kingdom. Paul wrote about that in 2 Tim 2:12; IF we (believers) endure, we WILL reign with Him. But, IF we (believers) deny Him (do not endure), then He will deny us (the privilege of reigning with Him).

 

[Jethro Bodine]

The point remains that we CANNOT SIN from our new nature. Why is that such a wrong view?

The fact that believers cannot sin from their new nature is complementary to Paul's writings about grieving (Eph 4:30), quenching (1 Thess 5:19), being filled (Eph 5:18) and walking by means of the Holy Spirit (Gal 5:16). iow, when a believer does grieve/quench the Spirit, they are doing so from their sinful nature. But, when being filled and walking by means of the Holy Spirit, they are doing so from their new nature.

How is this incorrect?

By saying the believer who is walking in the sin nature is not born of God.
You have conveniently redefined the term to suit your doctrine. That's why it is such a wrong view. That is how it is incorrect.

 

[ezrider]

The problem is the phrase "and he CANNOT SIN". Well, John already noted in ch 1 that believers STILL sin.
1:6 - 6 If we say that we have fellowship with Him and yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth;
1:8 - 8If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us.
1:10 - 10If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar and His word is not in us.

John did not say that those who walk in darkness, not practice the truth, have no sin, deceive themselves, have no truth in them, say that we have not sinned, are not saved. He's describing carnal believers. Those who live to the flesh.

So, 3:9 isn't saying that born again people cannot sin. The phrase "because His seed abides in him" speaks directly to our new nature, from which we get the terms "regeneration", "born again", "new birth".

iow, from our new nature, because it is "His seed" in us, we CANNOT sin. So, where do we sin from? Our sinful nature, the one we are all born with.

Because His seed abides in you, you can not sin because you are under a different law. Because you are under a different law, then legally you can not sin even though the act you commit is called sin by a another law.

Think for a moment about marijuana. Many would see the use of marijuana as sinful, and for a long time it has remained illegal, or against the law in many states. But that has been changing; If I were to go to the state of Colorado or the state of Washington then the use of marijuana there is defined as being legal. So from a kingdom standpoint, it can not be defined as sin. Now I do not live in either of those states, but I would be willing to bet that there are many people living in those states who still consider the use of marijuana as being sinful and wrong, even though the law has been changed so that it is not illegal.

 

[FreeGrace]

By saying the believer who is walking in the sin nature is not born of God.
You have conveniently redefined the term to suit your doctrine. That's why it is such a wrong view. That is how it is incorrect.

Again, wrong. The believer who sins is NOT SINNING from his new nature, but from his sinful nature. A very simple concept to understand.

Everyone who is 'born of God' still sins. There is no such thing as sinless perfection during our life on earth. So there is no other way to understand 1 Jn 3:9.

And I gave 4 verses to support my view. Please provide an explanation of how and why my view is wrong, using those 4 verses that do support my view.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Again, wrong. The believer who sins is NOT SINNING from his new nature, but from his sinful nature. A very simple concept to understand.

Everyone who is 'born of God' still sins. There is no such thing as sinless perfection during our life on earth. So there is no other way to understand 1 Jn 3:9.

And I gave 4 verses to support my view. Please provide an explanation of how and why my view is wrong, using those 4 verses that do support my view.

This is not a debate forum. All I did was answer the questions you asked.

bcbsr did a great job of explaining the passage right in the OP.

 

[FreeGrace]

Because His seed abides in you, you can not sin because you are under a different law. Because you are under a different law, then legally you can not sin even though the act you commit is called sin by a another law.

I don't see anywhere in 1 John 3 about being under a "different law". Paul spoke of a different law in Rom 7:23, but that isn't in the context of 1 John 3.

All believers have 2 natures because of the new birth. We still have our sinful nature, as noted by all these verses:
Rom 7:5,18,25, 8:3-5, 8,9, 12,13, 1 Cor 5:5, Gal 5:13,16,17,19,24, 6:8, Col 2:11, 13, 2 Pet 2:10 and 18.

Think for a moment about marijuana. Many would see the use of marijuana as sinful, and for a long time it has remained illegal, or against the law in many states. But that has been changing; If I were to go to the state of Colorado or the state of Washington then the use of marijuana there is defined as being legal. So from a kingdom standpoint, it can not be defined as sin.

Why in the world would any believer think that what is defined as sin is dependent upon what our current laws are??

If that were true (but thank God it isn't), then same sex marriage would not be sinful, given the changes in the marriage laws in many states. Your example fails to support your claim.

Now I do not live in either of those states, but I would be willing to bet that there are many people living in those states who still consider the use of marijuana as being sinful and wrong, even though the law has been changed so that it is not illegal.

Doesn't matter one bit. Totally irrelevant to the issue.

When a believer sins, he does so from his sinful nature, not from his/her new nature.

 

[Adullam]

Because His seed abides in you, you can not sin because you are under a different law. Because you are under a different law, then legally you can not sin even though the act you commit is called sin by a another law.

Think for a moment about marijuana. Many would see the use of marijuana as sinful, and for a long time it has remained illegal, or against the law in many states. But that has been changing; If I were to go to the state of Colorado or the state of Washington then the use of marijuana there is defined as being legal. So from a kingdom standpoint, it can not be defined as sin. Now I do not live in either of those states, but I would be willing to bet that there are many people living in those states who still consider the use of marijuana as being sinful and wrong, even though the law has been changed so that it is not illegal.

Hello! Sin remains sin for Christians. God has no favourites...He is righteous. The law of God has never changed. It is the MEANS of fulfilling the law that has changed. We are empowered by grace through Christ to do what is right in God's eyes.

John says that there is sin that leads to death. Do you deny this?

 

[ezrider]

Why in the world would any believer think that what is defined as sin is dependent upon what our current laws are??

If that were true (but thank God it isn't), then same sex marriage would not be sinful, given the changes in the marriage laws in many states. Your example fails to support your claim.

Doesn't matter one bit. Totally irrelevant to the issue.

I was simply using the example of the marijuana laws to demonstrate what we consider legal or illegal based upon our laws. And smoking marijuana is not the issue of John either, but the example is relevant when you forget the marijuana and consider the change in law from the Old Covenant to the New Covenant.

Romans 5:13 For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.

Hebrews 8:7-12 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second. For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah: Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord. For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts:and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord:for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest. For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.

1 Corinthians 6:12 All things are lawful unto me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any.

James 1 22:25 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves. For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass: For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was. But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.

Galatians 5:1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.

Romans 14:22-23 Hast thou faith? have it to thyself before God. Happy is he that condemneth not himself in that thing which he alloweth. And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.


Do you live be Faith or by the works of the Law?

 

[JLB]

It is the MEANS of fulfilling the law that has changed.

because Abraham obeyed My voice and kept My charge, My commandments, My statutes, and My laws."
Genesis 26:5

If Abraham kept God's law of say... not lying, then how is this "new" way of obeying this law of God to "not lie', to be fulfilled by Christians today?



JLB

 

[Deborah13]

This is not a debate forum. All I did was answer the questions you asked.

bcbsr did a great job of explaining the passage right in the OP.

The author of the OP started another thread by the same title in A&T.....

 

[ezrider]

Hello! Sin remains sin for Christians. God has no favourites...He is righteous. The law of God has never changed. It is the MEANS of fulfilling the law that has changed. We are empowered by grace through Christ to do what is right in God's eyes.

John says that there is sin that leads to death. Do you deny this?

Yes, there is a sin that leads to death. Jesus has already paid for our sins of the flesh upon the cross, but his blood will not save you from the sin that leads to death. It is the one sin you shall have to answer for at the white throne judgement.

Do you even know what that sin is, the Sin that leads to death? And why isn't that sin covered by the blood of Christ? Surely you must know these things if you are questioning my beliefs about them; so please enlighten me with your understanding of thius sin that leads to death.