25 quotes on Calvinism

[brightfame52]

You will need to disprove all the scriptures I used in post 119, saying men could live without sinning, to prove your point.

You havnt proved that a person can live without sinning by quoting those verses, and please lets keep that teaching out of this zone. Feel free to discuss the Doctrines of Grace. Thanks

 

[Hopeful 2]

You havnt proved that a person can live without sinning by quoting those verses, and please lets keep that teaching out of this zone. Feel free to discuss the Doctrines of Grace. Thanks

I didn't need to.
The writers of them did that for me...thanks be to God.

Doctrine of grace: God gave us all we need to serve Him, without cost to us.

 

[electedbyHim]

You will need to disprove all the scriptures I used in post 119, saying men could live without sinning, to prove your point.

I need not do anything.

It is you who claims to be without sin, but cannot prove it over the internet.

We should just take your word for it.

 

[GodsGrace]

Thats an benefit of being chosen by God to Salvation, believing is part of their Sanctification 2 Thess 2:13

We were discussing how John 3:16 states that God is CHOOSING who will be saved.
It plainly says that ANYONE WHO BELIEVES will be saved by belief in Jesus.

13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

Agreed 100%

Let's take a look at 2 Thess 2:10 to 17
and what it means when plainly read with no influence from reformed faith...

2 thessalonians 2:10-17
10and with every kind of evil deception directed against those who are perishing, because they found no place in their hearts for the truth so as to be saved.

Again, we are told HOW some are perishing....and HOW some are saved.
They found NO PLACE IN THEIR HEARTS FOR THE TRUTH so as to be saved.

It does NOT state because they were not chosen by God.
It states that the reason is because THEY FOUND NO PLACE IN THEIR HEARTS for the truth.
THEY FOUND NO PLACE
THEY
THEY,,,,,,,,NOT GOD.....ARE IN QUESTION HERE.


11Consequently God sends on them a deluding influence so that they will believe what is false.
12And so all of them who have not believed the truth but have delighted in evil will be condemned.

Again, God explains HOW TO BE SAVED, let's invert the above to the positive....

THOSE WHO BELIEVED THE TRUTH WILL BE SAVED.
THOSE WHO BELIEVED


NOT: Those whom God chose to be saved.

NOW the negative as in the verse:
Those who HAVE NOT BELIEVED the truth and delight in evil, will be condemned.

Nowhere do I read that God is doing any choosing.
It states that those who believe in the truth will be saved.
Those who do not believe and delight in evil will be condemned.

Perhaps you could take the time to explain how the above states that GOD IS CHOOSING those that are saved and those that are lost.

Please be specific....because it just is not there.


13But we ought to thank God always for you, brothers and sisters loved by the Lord, because God chose you from the beginning for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and faith in the truth.

God chose us from the beginning,,,,,see Genesis 3:15.....
to be saved THROUGH SANCTIFICATION BY THE SPIRIT.

The chosen is referring to HOW God CHOSE to save us.
You do believe Jesus atoned for our sins do you not?
This is God's plan for salvation.
HOW
not
WHO


14He called you to this salvation through our gospel, so that you may possess the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.

This is serious.
In verse 14 it states that God chose us to salvation THROUGH THE GOSPEL.....

NOT through God CHOOSING WHO will be saved,
but, as usual HOW to be saved.

Having been chosen by God to Salvation brings with it #1Sanctification of the Spirit and #2 belief of the Truth which is Faith. Why are some chosen and others not ? Matt 11:25-26

25 At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes.

26 Even so, Father: for so it seemed good in thy sight.

I don't understand why you posted Matthew 11:25-26

Jesus says:
COME TO ME ALL YE WHO LABOR AND ARE HEAVY LADEN.
COME TO ME
COME

This denotes free will in the creature.
An action the creature must take.

 

[Fastfredy0]

It does NOT state because they were not chosen by God.
It states that the reason is because THEY FOUND NO PLACE IN THEIR HEARTS for the truth.
THEY FOUND NO PLACE

.... then the next question is ... why did they not find a place in their hearts. You assume free will (though you can't define it). The verse does not state WHY they did no find a place in their hearts.
Why don't you find verses that answer the question: Why people CHOSE to believe (or not).

• Job 41:11 Who has first given to Me, that I should repay him? .... You claim you should be repaid because you gave God belief while the verse strongly infers NO ONE gives God anything
• Proverbs 16:9 In his heart a man plans his course, but the LORD determines his steps. The verse says God control a man's plan, you say you do in regard to salvation
• Jeremiah 10:23 O Lord [pleads Jeremiah in the name of the people], I know that [the determination of] the way of a man is not in himself; it is not in man [even in a strong man or in a man at his best] to direct his [own] steps. You disagree with this verse as you figure you direct your own steps in regard to salvation
• Matthew 11:27 All things have been entrusted and delivered to Me by My Father; and no one fully knows and accurately understands the Son except the Father, and no one fully knows and accurately understands the Father except the Son and anyone to whom the Son deliberately wills to make Him known. It clearly says that the Son will who will be known by the Father. You claim you do it by yourself
• John 1:12 But to as many as did receive and welcome Him, He gave the authority (power, privilege, right) to become the children of God, that is, to those who believe in (adhere to, trust in, and rely on) His name— 13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh [the flesh is carnal and flesh always lusteth against the Spirit], nor of the will of man, but of GOD. The verse says we are saved by God's will and then goes on for people like you who think you saved yourself to state that you are not saved by your will
• John 6:29 Jesus answered, “This is the work of God: that you believe. It plainly says that belief is a work and the work is done by God. You claim the work is partially yours. You believe in works salvation. Galatians warns against people who think they can save themselves by works
• John 6:37 All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will certainly not cast out. [the action is the Father giving to the Son; believers are not involved in the transaction save their coming is the result of the Father’s action
• John 6:63 The Spirit is the one who gives life; human nature is of no help! LOL... the verse cannot be true for your human nature helped you give yourself life.... congrats
• Romans 9:16 So then it depends not on human will or exertion [nations cannot “will” or “exert”], but on God, who has mercy. Refers to salvation via spiritual children of Abraham in v.8) Yet, you contradict the verse and say your free will determined your salvation.

yada, yada, yada

All you have is verses where a person decides to believe but you never think more deeply as to the REASON WHY YOU BELIEVED.

 

[Hopeful 2]

GodsGrace



Correct, and who doeth truth except one who has been regenerated ?Thats who comes to the light, which manifests they have been wrought on by God

Do you think an unregenerate sinner, dead in sin,who loves darkness rather than light, all the sudden begin to practice the truth and comes to the light ??

If the allure of darkness no longer holds any power over them, they will.

 

[brightfame52]

If the allure of darkness no longer holds any power over them, they will.

impossible if they're unregenerate, in fact the unregenerate are darkness, they love what they are. Eph 5 8

8 For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light: And so as Jesus says man by nature:

Jn 3:19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

 

[JLB]

All you have is verses

Yes verses of scripture.

It’s called the truth.

She loves the truth.


Those who follow the teachings of man, believe the lie.




JLB

 

[Iconoclast]

You see FF, IF it's God making you be saved because you were one of the lucky ones that were chosen....

A God who ordains whatsoever comes to pass, does not use the pagan concept of luck.

then

It has nothing to do with the person VOLUNTARILY/WILLINGLY accepting the salvation gift brought about by God's grace through faith.

No where is this terminology used by Jesus or the Apostles,

We are, as often said, just puppets in God's hands.

That is said by unbelieving heathen most all the time. We should not listen to what they say, but rather scripture.

I don't think God wants to interact with puppets, but with a creation of His that can WILLINGLY go to God for their salvation.

Sin and the fall into spiritual death, left mankind as spiritual corpses. A corpse cannot do anything on it's own except stay in dead religion.

This is why Jesus taught that we have to belong to the Kingdom....
Because it's OUR CHOICE to be a part of that Kingdom....

It is God's choice to grant new birth.

Or His teachings and death are irrelevant....

God's word is never irrelevant at any time.

 

[Hopeful 2]

impossible if they're unregenerate, in fact the unregenerate are darkness, they love what they are. Eph 5 8

8 For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light: And so as Jesus says man by nature:

Jn 3:19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

What is the means of that regeneration ?
How did Calvin explain rebirth ?

 

[GodsGrace]

Thats an benefit of being chosen by God to Salvation, believing is part of their Sanctification 2 Thess 2:13

The discussion going on was about the word WORLD and BELIEVE.

Point being:
THOSE BELIEVING ARE SAVED.

Yes. Of course, I think we can agree on this.

The real question is:

HOW does one come to beleive?

To which you're posting
2 Thessalonians 2:13

13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:
Having been chosen by God to Salvation brings with it #1Sanctification of the Spirit and #2 belief of the Truth which is Faith. Why are some chosen and others not ? Matt 11:25-26

I do believe we could once again agree.

From THE BEGINNING, God has chosen those that will be saved through a SPECIFIC set of rules ---- which He allows us to know ---- because God desires that everyone would come to salvation.
1 Timothy 2:4

Through our faith
Ephesians 2:8

By belief in our Lord and Savior Jesus the Christ
John 3:16

First by justification through faith
Romans 5:1-2

And continuing by sanctification, a life-long process
Hebrews 6:10

And
Matthew 11:25-26
Yes. Not too sure why you posted Matthew 11, but let's read on a bit and we'll ALWAYS get our answer:

Here it is:
Jesus is saying that no one knows the Father as He does.
Jesus is doing everything the Father sent Him to do and say.
This is because Jesus knows the Father and what the Father wishes. Divine natures, all wishing the same outcome.
Jesus states that He has come to COMMUNICATE what the Father wants us to know.
Unlike what electedbyhim stated, saying that we cannot know WHY God "chooses" some and not others,
HERE Jesus is saying that HE LET'S US KNOW what the Father intends for us to know.
Jesus says, and I'm repeating myself here, sorry:

Matthew 11:28-30
COME TO ME ALL YE WHO ARE TIRED AND HEAVING LADEN....
AND I WILL GIVE YOU REST.

Again, COME TO ME, is a command.
The command is TO COME TO JESUS.
This requires ACTION on OUR PART.

25 At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes.

26 Even so, Father: for so it seemed good in thy sight.

Answered above.
God reveals all we need to know to become saved to us.
Jesus is willing to teach us how.
We only need accept the TRUTH.

 

[GodsGrace]

God is not "making" you believe against your will. He changes your will so that you willingly (voluntarily) believe with 100% of the time.

IF God is CHANGING my will, HOW is that not tampering with my free will?

As you so often say....GOD IS SOVERIEGN.
Right. He can do anything He wishes to.
He's all-powerful.
Omnipotent.

So, if this all powerful being is CHANGING my desire....
Me,,,,a lowly creature,,,,

HOW IS THIS ME DOING WHAT I WANT TO DO???

If I offer you $1M then I will change your will and you will willingly (voluntarily) take the money. Same idea.

Definition of "make": To cause to exist or happen ... Gods causes (makes) us believe. We do it willingly (voluntarily).

You could give me all the millions you want....
I will NOT be DOING your wish because I WANT TO....
but to get the money.

For an intelligent type, you don't seem to grasp that your example IS FLAWED.
Plus, could you PLEASE STICK TO THE BIBLE AND WHAT IT STATES without injecting all these personalized examples that MEAN NOTHING.

giggle**

Similarly, Romans 11:32 For God has consigned everyone to disobedience so that He may have mercy on everyone.
Everyone willingly (voluntarily) disobeys and the cause is God. You never self-determined that your will would have a sin nature. You were given a will that is naturally disobedient. It is not as if you created your own will out of nothing Nothing is what you once were.

Please exegete the above.
Romans 11:32.

To follow your lead:
We must have the same understanding in mind or speaking is useless.

IOW, I don't read anything about the sin nature up there.
I don't read anything about God being the cause of our sinning....

And wow. Yeah. There's a thought for you.
GOD, who spends most of the NT telling us not to sin...
MAKES US SIN.

!!

And I learned that Christianity is a reasonable religion.

You have not bible verse to back you up. You make God into a puppet when it comes to salvation. You say, "I read the rule book (bible) and it says I can control God to the extent that He must adopt me as His child if I just push the right buttons". You control God; you make Him adopt you because of what you think you did independent of God.

Cute FF.
But I don't have much time and the above is ridiculous and I'm not replying to it.
If you think this is a game of words.....you're sadly mistaken.
Our souls are at stake here.

As with your definition of Free Will you don't go deep enough into the concept to understand it.

It seems to me that everyone understands it but YOU.
You do seem to have a big problem understanding words.
Maybe this is why you have to read all those systematic theology books.

Maybe you just don't understand THE BIBLE??

I agree it is our choice to be part of the Kingdom ... the crux of the disagreement is "what is the cause of our choice".

Your crux FF.
I know the reason:

GOD LOVE ME AND ALLOWS ME TO KNOW HOW TO BECOME SAVED.

God does not love the world according to the reformed....
Man does not have the ability to come to God on his own...

If the NT is correct, then
The CAUSE OF MY CHOICE is my FREE WILL to want to spend eternity with God and to learn from Him how to go about doing this.

Want some verses?
Let's see.
I do believe THE ENTIRE NEW TESTAMENT speaks to his.

You never dive that deeply into the process. Your like a hammer and take credit for the carpentry, never realizing a Carpenter has been causing you to to the carpentry.

Right. I'm such a puppet.
It's just that I don't know it yet.

But didn't you explain that we ARE puppets because God CHANGES us to do what HE wants us to do?


This could be confusing...

Take a deeper dive into the thought process:
God could not foreknow that things would be, unless he had decreed they should be.

God is so dumb.
He only could know what He decrees.
HOW could He, a soverieng and all powerful and all knowing God, EVER know what was going to happen?
IMPOSSIBLE!!!

Whew. I thought YOU believed in a sovereign God.
Maybe it's been ME all along!

Did you learn the above in systematic theology?
Get me one of those there books.
Maybe it could also convince ME that God is just not sovereign enough....

He cannot “look into the future”, so to speak, to find out what will happen for that would be knowledge acquired from learning; God is immutable and omniscient and therefore cannot learn.

What page was the above on?

Furthermore, from nothing nothing comes and since before creation nothing existed, all knowledge must come from God and the source of His knowledge is His wisdom and ability to cause all things. If God's knowledge of his creatures were derived from the creatures by the impression of anything upon him, as there is upon us, he could not know from eternity, because from eternity there was no actual existence of anything but himself; and therefore there could not be any images shot out from anything, because there was not anything in being but God. Stephen Charnock

Predestination or GoodLuck

Huh?

Bill, where are you when we need you?
Craig, that would be.

 

[GodsGrace]

You need to read a dictionary. Your statements don't make sense.

Well, if it doesn't make sense to YOU....
that means it makes sense.

YOU delve a little deeper into what I stated.
You'll see that it makes PERFECT SENSE.

Luck: The chance happening of fortunate or adverse events; fortune.

You mean like when God CHOOSES a person to be saved and that person is saved from PURE LUCK, because he certainly did not follow a known path to salvation....

Reformed theology believes God is the cause of all things and therefore they believe there is no such thing as "luck".

So sweet of you to advise me.
After all these years of studying Calvinism and I don't even know what luck is.

You, on the other hand believe you will what your desires are independent of God. How you chose your desires is a "mystery" (luck).


Definition of Love (agape): to favor (Friendly or favorable regard; approval or support.)
God does not love (favor, approve, support) most people as that vast majority of people will spend eternity in agony (hell).

To understand God as best as one can one must integrate all aspects of His word into a cohesive oneness.
Read some "systematic theology" books. The Roman Catholic author some.... your RC leaning might lead you there.
In you vernacular: Good Luck

And there you have it folks.

We Christians are deprived because we don't read systematic theology books.

And my Catholic leanings are making me dumb.

I think I'm going to have to stop posting to you again.
My fragility can only bear so much....

 

[brightfame52]

GodsGrace

I do believe we could once again agree.

From THE BEGINNING, God has chosen those that will be saved through a SPECIFIC set of rules ---- which He allows us to know ---- because God desires that everyone would come to salvation.
1 Timothy 2:4

No we dont agree, i said nothing about a certain set of rules. I pointed out that one believes as a result of being sanctified by the Holy Spirit unto belief of the Truth, which is Faith 2 Thess 2:13

13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

The elects believing is credited to the work of the Spirit sanctifying them. Do you agree with that ? Yes or no

 

[GodsGrace]

GodsGrace


No we dont agree, i said nothing about a certain set of rules. I pointed out that one believes as a result of being sanctified by the Holy Spirit unto belief of the Truth, which is Faith 2 Thess 2:13

13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

The elects believing is credited to the work of the Spirit sanctifying them. Do you agree with that ? Yes or no

Well, let's see if we agree.

If by sanctification you mean that we sit in some seat somewhere (not the seat of Moses)
and then we're ZAPPED by some kind of special force that just,,,,BOOM,,,, sanctifies us....
then I guess we DON'T AGREE.

You see BF, here's what the NT teaches:
JUSTIFICATION is by faith alone.

SANCTIFICATION is by faith AND works.

But, you believe even FAITH IS A WORK....
so where to go from here?

Here are 1 or 2 verses you can depend on:

What Does the Bible Say About Good Works?

Bible verses about Good Works

www.openbible.info

 

[brightfame52]

GodsGrace

IF God is CHANGING my will, HOW is that not tampering with my free will?

Mans will by nature is a slave to sin, it will never come to Christ and cant come to Christ Jn 6:44; 5:40. So God in mercy gives a person a new heart in regeneration thats free from the slavery of sin and comes to Christ.

 

[GodsGrace]

GodsGrace



Mans will by nature is a slave to sin, it will never come to Christ and cant come to Christ Jn 6:44; 5:40. So God in mercy gives a person a new heart in regeneration thats free from the slavery of sin and comes to Christ.

Do I have to WANT that new heart?

Am I capable of RESISTING God's grace or MUST I accept it?

AM I A PUPPET OR NOT???

 

[brightfame52]

Well, let's see if we agree.

If by sanctification you mean that we sit in some seat somewhere (not the seat of Moses)
and then we're ZAPPED by some kind of special force that just,,,,BOOM,,,, sanctifies us....
then I guess we DON'T AGREE.

You see BF, here's what the NT teaches:
JUSTIFICATION is by faith alone.

SANCTIFICATION is by faith AND works.

But, you believe even FAITH IS A WORK....
so where to go from here?

Here are 1 or 2 verses you can depend on:

What Does the Bible Say About Good Works?

Bible verses about Good Works

www.openbible.info

By sanctification of the Spirit I mean regeneration, the giving of a new heart, mind, will , affections that desires the things of God and causes belief in the Truth.

 

[GodsGrace]

By sanctification of the Spirit I mean regeneration, the giving of a new heart, mind, will , affections that desires the things of God and causes belief in the Truth.

SEE MY POST NO. 197

 

[GodsGrace]

By sanctification of the Spirit I mean regeneration, the giving of a new heart, mind, will , affections that desires the things of God and causes belief in the Truth.

You see BF,
I believe in
SANCTIFICATION
REGENERATION
A NEW HEART
DESIRING THE THINGS OF GOD
BELIEF IN THE TRUTH


But there can be only ONE TRUTH.
So let's find out what it is.

AM I A PUPPET OR NOT?
Would YOU want to be loved by a puppet?
Do you think God wants to be loved by puppets?