25 quotes on Calvinism

[Hopeful 2]

Hopeful 2
Who is Christ according to the Gospel,

The "gospel" cited in 1 Cor 15:3-4 doesn't mention who Christ is.

whose sins did He specifically die for ?

As for whose sins did He die for...all mankind's sins.
1 John 2:2..."And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world."

What did His dying for their sins accomplish for them He died for ?

Jesus provided the propitiation, as per 1 John 2:2 above.
Jesus' death also provided the means of casting off the "flesh" and being reborn of God's seed. (Rom 6:3-7)
It provided the way to be perfectly sinless.

The Gospel isn't just spouting out that one historical fact without explaining it in detail.

The gospel does encapsulate more than one thing.
As 1 Cor 15:3-4 states three things..."For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:"
Jesus died for our sins, was buried, and was raised from the dead.
Many more items would be added on that good news, as they were later revealed to His disciples.
But the gospel itself is three items.
It was the epistles that explained it in detail.

 

[brightfame52]

Hopeful 2

The "gospel" cited in 1 Cor 15:3-4 doesn't mention who Christ is.

Thats my point. If one believes in Christ shouldn't they know who He is duh ? You dont think that should be explained ?

 

[Hopeful 2]

Hopeful 2



Thats my point. If one believes in Christ shouldn't they know who He is duh ? You dont think that should be explained ?

If they already believe in Him, don't you think they already know who He is?

 

[brightfame52]

Hopeful 2

As for whose sins did He die for...all mankind's sins.
1 John 2:2..."And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world."

Thats false

Jesus provided the propitiation, as per 1 John 2:2 above.
Jesus' death also provided the means of casting off the "flesh" and being reborn of God's seed. (Rom 6:3-7)
It provided the way to be perfectly sinless.

Thats false

 

[brightfame52]

If they already believe in Him, don't you think they already know who He is?

What did they believe about Him, who is He ? Is he buddah, a prophet ?

 

[Iconoclast]

Iconoclast



So is this duty faith ?

What Is Duty Faith And Is It Biblical - Coming In The Clouds

What Is Duty Faith And Is It Biblical? Introduction We need to start this study by defining the term “duty faith”. Duty faith is the teaching that it is the duty or obligation towards God of the natural man (unregenerated person) to believe unto eternal salvation, even if it is impossible...

comingintheclouds.org

We need to start this study by defining the term “duty faith”. Duty faith is the teaching that it is the duty or obligation towards God of the natural man (unregenerated person) to believe unto eternal salvation, even if it is impossible for him to do so in his spiritually dead condition. Or to put it another way, it is the duty of the unsaved sinner to fully trust in Christ as Savior and to believe what God declares in Scripture about how sinful mankind is and how holy God is and that only the sinless Savior – the Lord Jesus Christ – could ever be a suitable sacrifice for the sins against God committed by guilty ungodly sinners.

Both John Newton in 1770 and Arthur w. Pink in 1936 presented reasoning from Scripture to support the doctrine of “duty faith”. Their writings on this subject also lend great support to the precept that “Gospel preaching” is a means utilized of God in Salvation. I would like to note at this point that many people who go by the name of “Primitive Baptist” do NOT agree with Gospel preaching being a means God uses to bring unsaved sinners to Christ and they have come up with a system of theology that attempts to justify their position, a position that is often referred to as “hyper” Calvinism. Click here for more information about the doctrinal problems of Primitive Baptists.

 

[brightfame52]

What Is Duty Faith And Is It Biblical - Coming In The Clouds

What Is Duty Faith And Is It Biblical? Introduction We need to start this study by defining the term “duty faith”. Duty faith is the teaching that it is the duty or obligation towards God of the natural man (unregenerated person) to believe unto eternal salvation, even if it is impossible...

comingintheclouds.org

We need to start this study by defining the term “duty faith”. Duty faith is the teaching that it is the duty or obligation towards God of the natural man (unregenerated person) to believe unto eternal salvation, even if it is impossible for him to do so in his spiritually dead condition. Or to put it another way, it is the duty of the unsaved sinner to fully trust in Christ as Savior and to believe what God declares in Scripture about how sinful mankind is and how holy God is and that only the sinless Savior – the Lord Jesus Christ – could ever be a suitable sacrifice for the sins against God committed by guilty ungodly sinners.

Both John Newton in 1770 and Arthur w. Pink in 1936 presented reasoning from Scripture to support the doctrine of “duty faith”. Their writings on this subject also lend great support to the precept that “Gospel preaching” is a means utilized of God in Salvation. I would like to note at this point that many people who go by the name of “Primitive Baptist” do NOT agree with Gospel preaching being a means God uses to bring unsaved sinners to Christ and they have come up with a system of theology that attempts to justify their position, a position that is often referred to as “hyper” Calvinism. Click here for more information about the doctrinal problems of Primitive Baptists.

If you dont mind, can you explain what you meant by duty in this post please?

(2) That [external] calling is not such as to lay open the secret counsel of God concerning the salvation of this or that person, but only to prescribe in general to man his duty and set forth the infallible way of salvation (and they who follow this will necessarily be saved).

 

[Iconoclast]

If you dont mind, can you explain what you meant by duty in this post please?

All men are responsible to repent and believe the gospel. This declaration explains their duty before God.
The word is declared to all men. Only those elected by God will be savingly drawn to Jesus.
29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.

30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:

31 Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.

We need to start this study by defining the term “duty faith”. Duty faith is the teaching that it is the duty or obligation towards God of the natural man (unregenerated person) to believe unto eternal salvation, even if it is impossible for him to do so in his spiritually dead condition. Or to put it another way, it is the duty of the unsaved sinner to fully trust in Christ as Savior and to believe what God declares in Scripture about how sinful mankind is and how holy God is and that only the sinless Savior – the Lord Jesus Christ – could ever be a suitable sacrifice for the sins against God committed by guilty ungodly sinners.

 

[Hopeful 2]

Hopeful 2



Thats false



Thats false

I believe the scriptures I used to show it is true.
Where are yours that refute them ?

 

[Hopeful 2]

What did they believe about Him, who is He ? Is he buddah, a prophet ?

They believed He was Jesus Christ, the Son of God, and our Savior.
Who did you think He was the first couple of times you heard about Him ?

 

[Hopeful 2]

What Is Duty Faith And Is It Biblical - Coming In The Clouds

What Is Duty Faith And Is It Biblical? Introduction We need to start this study by defining the term “duty faith”. Duty faith is the teaching that it is the duty or obligation towards God of the natural man (unregenerated person) to believe unto eternal salvation, even if it is impossible...

comingintheclouds.org

We need to start this study by defining the term “duty faith”. Duty faith is the teaching that it is the duty or obligation towards God of the natural man (unregenerated person) to believe unto eternal salvation, even if it is impossible for him to do so in his spiritually dead condition.

If it is impossible, why did I do it ?

 

[brightfame52]

Iconoclast

All men are responsible to repent and believe the gospel. This declaration explains their duty before God.

So do i understand you to be saying all men to include the non elect are responsible to believe the Gospel to be saved ? Is it the duty of the non elect to believe and be saved ?

 

[brightfame52]

They believed He was Jesus Christ, the Son of God, and our Savior.
Who did you think He was the first couple of times you heard about Him ?

Where do you see in 1 Cor 15:3-4 He is the Son of God ?

 

[brightfame52]

Iconoclast

30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:

31 Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.

Acts 17 see I dont believe the command to repent here is directed to the non elect reprobate, but to some of the regenerated gentiles of Gods elect among them. See New Covenant Repentance is attached to the forgiveness of sins, and its given to the elect Acts 5:31

31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.
Jesus coupled them together here as well Lk 24 47

And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

Gods commandment to repent is in light of remission of sins, which the non elect have no part in !

Now if we say the non elect have forgiveness of sins thats not true, and if we say the non elect if they repent will get forgiveness, thats works, so that cant be true because forgiveness is of free grace through Christs blood

 

[brightfame52]

Iconoclast

We need to start this study by defining the term “duty faith”. Duty faith is the teaching that it is the duty or obligation towards God of the natural man (unregenerated person) to believe unto eternal salvation, even if it is impossible for him to do so in his spiritually dead condition.

I disagree, its not the duty of the non elect to be saved eternally, it was Christs duty to save His People eternally. Christ is the Author of Eternal Salvation to them obeying Him Heb 5 9

And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

It was His responsibility before His Father to save this People Matt 1 21.

Now it is mans duty even the non elect to believe the record God has given of His Son, lest we make God a liar 1 Jn 5:10-11
10 He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.

11 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.

The word record is martyria:

1. a testifying
   1. the office committed to the prophets of testifying concerning future events
2. what one testifies, testimony, i.e. before a judge

Its the Testimony , witness of Jesus Christ, who He is, what He has done, for whom He did it, what did He accomplish. Now men ought believe this record, testimony, whether they are elect or not.

For instance, the Gospel is specific as to who Christ gives eternal life, to as many as the Father has given Him in election Jn 17 2

2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.

Now the elect and non elect should believe this record is true, eternal life is restricted to "as many as the Father has given" thats election.

Now not to believe this makes God a liar !

 

[Iconoclast]

Iconoclast



So do i understand you to be saying all men to include the non elect are responsible to believe the Gospel to be saved ? Is it the duty of the non elect to believe and be saved ?

Yes...it is the duty of all men, all created beings to worship and Honor the King.

 

[Fastfredy0]

Duty faith is the teaching that it is the duty or obligation towards God of the natural man (unregenerated person) to believe unto eternal salvation

I agree with you.
John 3:18 Whoever believes and has decided to trust in Him [as personal Savior and Lord] is not judged [for this one, there is no judgment, no rejection, no condemnation]; but the one who does not believe [and has decided to reject Him as personal Savior and Lord] is judged already [that one has been convicted and sentenced], because he has not believed and trusted in the name of the [One and] only begotten Son of God [the One who is truly unique, the only One of His kind, the One who alone can save him].

 

[Iconoclast]

Iconoclast

Hello BF, let's see what we have here. I think when we agree on most things, there are sometimes small things that cause two people to not agree.

Acts 17 see I dont believe the command to repent here is directed to the non elect reprobate,

Now, we agree on many things as stated. Does the bible teach, election, reprobation, repentance, regeneration, sanctification, Total Depravity, Particular Redemption, etc. It is safe to say we do not differ on these main categories.
The Command in Acts 17 says:but now commandeth all men everywhere to repent:

All men everywhere would include [elect persons, and non elect persons] If it is all men everywhere. The article I offered clearly stated this;

{"Duty faith is the teaching that it is the duty or obligation towards God of the natural man (unregenerated person) to believe unto eternal salvation, even if it is impossible for him to do so in his spiritually dead condition. }

but to some of the regenerated gentiles of Gods elect among them.

So to be clear, you see a distinction in this text that takes the all men, to mean not the Jew only, but gentiles who are already regenerated before they repent???
Saving faith and repentance happen in real time simultaneously.
From the Divine side, it is certain before time was 2tim.1:9. yet it happens in real time Eph2:1-5
We are conceived as sinners who need regeneration and conversion.

See New Covenant Repentance is attached to the forgiveness of sins, and its given to the elect Acts 5:31

I agree that we get the whole package IN Christ. That being said, we are not saved from our sins until we are given a new heart, and indwelt by the Spirit of God. While Jesus accomplished redemption at the cross as our mediator, surety, and Great High Priest, as His part of the Covenant of Redemption and not one will be lost, salvation happens in real time. We openly confess that salvation by our public baptism. We do not intentionally baptize unbelievers.

31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.
Jesus coupled them together here as well Lk 24 47

Yes, I agree , believers receive all of this at the moment they are quickened by the Spirit.

And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

I agree it is to be preached...and that everyone believing will receive this salvation. I am told that every believing one, will be saved,jn3:15,16. I know that only the elect are going to be effectually, and irresistibly drawn to saving faith, but once again, as we do not know who they are, we preach to all men everywhere, explaining what the are called to believe.

Gods commandment to repent is in light of remission of sins, which the non elect have no part in !

I agree that the non elect reprobate will never repent and believe the gospel. They will die in their sins and perish sadly. That does not mean that the command to repent is not a command. As stated above in red..

Now if we say the non elect have forgiveness of sins thats not true,

I do not say they have forgiveness of sins, neither does any Calvinist say such a thing. The non elect persons do not have the Spirit of God. They do not know the love of God which is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Spirit which is given unto us.

and if we say the non elect if they repent will get forgiveness, thats works, so that cant be true because forgiveness is of free grace through Christs blood

Once again...when we face sinners and preach or teach God's truth, we do not know if the sinner we are speaking with is elect, or reprobate. So we freely preach and offer the truth of the gospel of the Kingdom.

 

[Iconoclast]

Iconoclast

In a discussion like this, we need to slow down and clarify what we are both saying and hearing.

I disagree, its not the duty of the non elect to be saved eternally,

No where did I say it is the duty of a non elect person to be saved eternally. Salvation is of the Lord, not the non elect people. The gospel call declares the duty of fallen, ungodly, rebels to repent and believe the gospel no matter if they can, or cannot do it.

it was Christs duty to save His People eternally. Christ is the Author of Eternal Salvation to them obeying Him Heb 5 9

Agreed

And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

Agreed

It was His responsibility before His Father to save this People Matt 1 21.

Agreed

Now it is mans duty even the non elect to believe the record God has given of His Son, lest we make God a liar 1 Jn 5:10-11
10 He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.

Agreed

11 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.

The word record is martyria:

1. a testifying
   1. the office committed to the prophets of testifying concerning future events
2. what one testifies, testimony, i.e. before a judge

Its the Testimony , witness of Jesus Christ, who He is, what He has done, for whom He did it, what did He accomplish. Now men ought believe this record, testimony, whether they are elect or not.

For instance, the Gospel is specific as to who Christ gives eternal life, to as many as the Father has given Him in election Jn 17 2

2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.

Now the elect and non elect should believe this record is true, eternal life is restricted to "as many as the Father has given" thats election.

Now not to believe this makes God a liar !

 

[brightfame52]

Yes...it is the duty of all men, all created beings to worship and Honor the King.

I disagree that its the duty of all men to be saved, for Christ didnt even die for all men.