A look at 1 John 3.6

[live2blive]

Without a context, I know there is a physical death and a second death.
As for a spiritual death, I would have to say I don't know.
Is dead in trespasses and sins a spiritual death ?

Yes.
For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. (Romans 8:6).
To be carnally minded is to have condemned or sinful mind. People's mind or soul is carnal or is in a state of spiritual death. From this death Christ saves those who believe through the preaching of the Gospel, "Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls." (1 Peter 1:9).

 

[Hopeful 2]

Yes.
For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. (Romans 8:6).
To be carnally minded is to have condemned or sinful mind. People's mind or soul is carnal or is in a state of spiritual death. From this death Christ saves those who believe through the preaching of the Gospel, "Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls." (1 Peter 1:9).

Isn't it good to be Spiritually minded ? (rhetorical question)

 

[Dyonisius the Areopagite]

Just a reminder that there are two different condemnations in Scripture. One is Positional Condemnation. That is what we are born with, we are born IN ADAM, and by this birth, we are born positionally qualified to be the recipients of God's benevolence and grace. There is also an Eternal Condemnation, which is the result of rejecting God's offer of salvation.

Rejecting the path of theosis is rejecting God's offer of salvation.

 

[live2blive]

Isn't it good to be Spiritually minded ? (rhetorical question)

It is definitely good. The important question (not rhetorical) is how to be Spiritually minded.

 

[Hopeful 2]

It is definitely good. The important question (not rhetorical) is how to be Spiritually minded.

Do you know how, or do you want to know how ?

 

[live2blive]

Do you know how, or do you want to know how ?

Both. I do know and I would like to know what you think as well.

 

[Hopeful 2]

Both. I do know and I would like to know what you think as well.

Ok, to be Spiritually minded, one has to first kill the "fleshly" mind.
That occurs after a permanent repentance from sin, and at water baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of past sins.
Paul writes of other things that occur during that baptism, including the death of the old man...thereby killing the old mind.
Paul writes "Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life." (Rom 6:4)
That new life, is one walked in the Spirit instead of the now dead flesh.
Paul writes..."Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new." (2 Cor 5:17)
The "fleshly" oriented mind is one of those old things that has passed away, and been made anew.

 

[live2blive]

Ok, to be Spiritually minded, one has to first kill the "fleshly" mind.
That occurs after a permanent repentance from sin, and at water baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of past sins.
Paul writes of other things that occur during that baptism, including the death of the old man...thereby killing the old mind.
Paul writes "Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life." (Rom 6:4)
That new life, is one walked in the Spirit instead of the now dead flesh.
Paul writes..."Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new." (2 Cor 5:17)
The "fleshly" oriented mind is one of those old things that has passed away, and been made anew.

Yes, I agree that to be Spiritually minded, one has to first kill the fleshly mind. I don’t agree that water baptism has anything to do with that. The fleshly mind is killed by the preaching of the true Gospel, which is the sprinkling of the living water or the word by the Holy Spirit, not of physical water by a man.

Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you. (Ezekiel 36:25).

Only hearing the truth leads to the true repentance or turning away from sin:

And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free. (John 8:32).

 

[Hopeful 2]

Yes, I agree that to be Spiritually minded, one has to first kill the fleshly mind. I don’t agree that water baptism has anything to do with that. The fleshly mind is killed by the preaching of the true Gospel, which is the sprinkling of the living water or the word by the Holy Spirit, not of physical water by a man.

Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you. (Ezekiel 36:25).

Only hearing the truth leads to the true repentance or turning away from sin:

And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free. (John 8:32).

Has your POV been able to make you a non-sinner ?
Mine has.
Have the preachings you have heard, killed your fleshly oriented mind ?
Water baptism into Christ, and into His death, burial, and resurrection, have destroyed my old man; and allowed me to raised with Christ as a new creature, with a new mind centered on Christ Jesus.

 

[live2blive]

Has your POV been able to make you a non-sinner ?
Mine has.
Have the preachings you have heard, killed your fleshly oriented mind ?
Water baptism into Christ, and into His death, burial, and resurrection, have destroyed my old man; and allowed me to raised with Christ as a new creature, with a new mind centered on Christ Jesus.

I am glad to hear about your change. Do you think it happened or would have happened without water baptism?

 

[Hopeful 2]

I am glad to hear about your change. Do you think it happened or would have happened without water baptism?

I do not imagine walking in and after the Spirit could happen, without having been crucified with Christ, buried with Him, or resurrected with Him...to walk in newness of life. (Rom 6:4)
Those things are facilitated by water baptism.

 

[live2blive]

I do not imagine walking in and after the Spirit could happen, without having been crucified with Christ, buried with Him, or resurrected with Him...to walk in newness of life. (Rom 6:4)
Those things are facilitated by water baptism.

Where does it say in the Bible that all these things you listed are facilitated by water baptism?

 

[Hopeful 2]

Where does it say in the Bible that all these things you listed are facilitated by water baptism?

They are stated in Rom 6:3-6.
Gal 5:24 supports Rom 6:3-6's veracity.
Col 2:11-13 touches on other water baptism-generated gifts from God.

 

[live2blive]

They are stated in Rom 6:3-6.
Gal 5:24 supports Rom 6:3-6's veracity.
Col 2:11-13 touches on other water baptism-generated gifts from God.

Thank you. What do you think is the baptism the Savior is talking about in Matthew and Luke below?

22 But Jesus answered and said, Ye know not what ye ask. Are ye able to drink of the cup that I shall drink of, and to be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with? They say unto him, We are able.

23 And he saith unto them, Ye shall drink indeed of my cup, and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with… (Matthew 20:22,23).

But I have a baptism to be baptized with; and how am I straitened till it be accomplished! (Luke 12:50).

 

[Hopeful 2]

Thank you. What do you think is the baptism the Savior is talking about in Matthew and Luke below?

22 But Jesus answered and said, Ye know not what ye ask. Are ye able to drink of the cup that I shall drink of, and to be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with? They say unto him, We are able.

23 And he saith unto them, Ye shall drink indeed of my cup, and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with… (Matthew 20:22,23).

But I have a baptism to be baptized with; and how am I straitened till it be accomplished! (Luke 12:50).

I feel that the baptism, (immersion), Jesus referred to in Matt 20, was His impending physical death.

 

[live2blive]

I feel that the baptism, (immersion), Jesus referred to in Matt 20, was His impending physical death.

Yes, I completely agree. Please notice that He told the disciples that they would undergo similar baptism (without water). Similar, because their physical carnal nature of old man would die. This is the baptism (without water) Paul is talking about:

11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:

12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead. (Colossians 2:11,12).

Notice "without hands": circumcision or cutting off sin or death to sin (similar to repentance - turning away from sin), burial in baptism (old man is consumed like the physical body of the Messiah was consumed in His burial), resurrection.

 

[Hopeful 2]

Yes, I completely agree. Please notice that He told the disciples that they would undergo similar baptism (without water). Similar, because their physical carnal nature of old man would die. This is the baptism (without water) Paul is talking about:

Actually, it was Jesus', and eventually the apostles', physical death that Jesus was referring to.

11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:
12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead. (Colossians 2:11,12).

Both Colossians verses are with water baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins.

Notice "without hands": circumcision or cutting off sin or death to sin (similar to repentance - turning away from sin), burial in baptism (old man is consumed like the physical body of the Messiah was consumed in His burial), resurrection.

The "without hands" reference is simply its differentiation from Jewish OT circumcision "done with hands"
The destruction of our old man/circumcision of the body of sins of the flesh, is accomplished by water baptism, as per Paul in Rom 6:6.

I see no connection to "turning from" (repenting from) sin.

 

[live2blive]

Actually, it was Jesus', and eventually the apostles', physical death that Jesus was referring to.

Both Colossians verses are with water baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins.

The "without hands" reference is simply its differentiation from Jewish OT circumcision "done with hands"
The destruction of our old man/circumcision of the body of sins of the flesh, is accomplished by water baptism, as per Paul in Rom 6:6.

I see no connection to "turning from" (repenting from) sin.

Obviously we see it differently. When Jesus was baptized (immersed) in the physical death, he undervent a change in the grave: his physical body was consumed and he resurrected as the quickening spirit (1 Cor 15:45). Similarly, by faith (not water) we die to sin, and in burial (baptism of the water of the word or Gospel, not physical water), our carnal physical mind is consumed and the new man resurrects (2 Cor 5:17). This is the way I see it.

 

[Hopeful 2]

Obviously we see it differently. When Jesus was baptized (immersed) in the physical death, he undervent a change in the grave: his physical body was consumed and he resurrected as the quickening spirit (1 Cor 15:45). Similarly, by faith (not water) we die to sin, and in burial (baptism of the water of the word or Gospel, not physical water), our carnal physical mind is consumed and the new man resurrects (2 Cor 5:17). This is the way I see it.

We do indeed see it differently.
Has your version of these mentioned things allowed you to live without sinning ?

 

[live2blive]

We do indeed see it differently.
Has your version of these mentioned things allowed you to live without sinning ?

Yes. I realize that this statement will likely be looked negatively upon, because the prevalent teaching is that Christians continue to sin. However, people may differ in understanding of what "sin" is.