A look at 1 John 3.6

[live2blive]

Completely Lost in your flesh focused conversation of what freedom from sin is, is God's Spiritual interpretation of what the paramount importance of being made "free from sin" actually is.
Not being free from the presence of sin but being free from the power of death .
God's interpretation is not about the act as the carnal mind walking in the flesh loves to revel in.
God's interpretation is about the new attitude of the Spirit.
The old nature of flesh knows no law, never has , never will.
The new nature needs no law.
God declared to Adam & Eve, who had direct communion with God the Father, that if they sinned they would die. yet they lived in their flesh many hundred years after they first sinned.
Do you believe that having lived thru that first sin and having learned their lesson , that for the next couple hundred years that Adam & Eve never sinned again ?
Do you believe you will meet Adam & Eve one day ?
How can that be if God said that their one solitary sin would cause them to die ?
Do you believe if you are to ask them when you meet them did they ever commit another sin after the fall they will tell you , yes or no ?

Ezekial 18:4
... the soul that sinneth, it shall die.

You did not answer my question. The Savior told his disciples, "ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free [from sin]" (John 8:32). Do you believe the Saviour's words? What do you think He meant?

Regarding your words that "The new nature needs no law", there is the Law of the Spirit which governs the new nature (Jeremiah 31:33, Romans 8:2).

Regarding Adam and Eve, yes, they became sinners and were comitting sins after the fall. I don't understand why you asked this question.

 

[live2blive]

Could you rephrase your question. I am not following what you are asking. Be as specific as possible. Thank you in advance.

It was not a question but statement. You are saying that in Romans 7 Paul uses present tense to describe his present state, not as "historical present". I am saying that sometimes Paul uses present tense in the first person not necesserily as "historical present", but for generalization or emphasis, not to describe his present state. Other exemples in addition to Romans 7 are Romans 3:7 and 1 Corinthians 13:

Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.

And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.

And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing. (1 Corinthians 13:1-3).

Did Paul give his body to be burned?

 

[Consecrated Life]

You did not answer my question. The Savior told his disciples, "ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free [from sin]" (John 8:32). Do you believe the Saviour's words? What do you think He meant?

I did tell you what for me "free from sin" meant from the mouth of God.
Freedom not from the presence of sin, but freedom from the power of death .

Regarding your words that "The new nature needs no law", there is the Law of the Spirit which governs the new nature (Jeremiah 31:33, Romans 8:2).

As I said : "God's interpretation is not about the act as the carnal mind walking in the flesh loves to revel in."
God's interpretation is Spiritual not carnal.
If you believe that why has your thread been an appeal to the flesh ?

Regarding Adam and Eve, yes, they became sinners and were comitting sins after the fall. I don't understand why you asked this question.

My question how do you expect to meet Adam & Eve one day in heaven given their committing of other sins after hearing directly from God on the matter ?

 

[live2blive]

I did tell you what for me "free from sin" meant from the mouth of God.
Freedom not from the presence of sin, but freedom from the power of death .

Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.
And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever.
If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed. (John 8:34-36).

Don't you see that Jesus will make people free, they will be not the servants of sin, i.e. they will not committ sin?

As I said : "God's interpretation is not about the act as the carnal mind walking in the flesh loves to revel in."
God's interpretation is Spiritual not carnal.
If you believe that why has your thread been an appeal to the flesh ?

When my thread has been an appeal to the flesh? I dont understand.

My question how do you expect to meet Adam & Eve one day in heaven given their committing of other sins after hearing directly from God on the matter ?

The Savior attoned for their sins (Romans 5:15-19).

 

[Consecrated Life]

Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.
And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever.
If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed. (John 8:34-36).

Don't you see that Jesus will make people free, they will be not the servants of sin, i.e. they will not committ sin?

When did you ever meet a person who never commits sin ?

 

[live2blive]

When did you ever meet a person who never commits sin ?

I believe that the words of the Savior were true, and the apostles after being born from God did not commit sins (1 John 3:6-9). I also met such people. We may have misunderstanding because we may undrestand sin differently. What do you think sin is?

 

[Consecrated Life]

I believe that the words of the Savior were true, and the apostles after being born from God did not commit sins (1 John 3:6-9). I also met such people. We may have misunderstanding because we may undrestand sin differently. What do you think sin is?

When was the last time you met such a person who never commits sin ?
And how could you be certain such a person never sinned when they were not in your presence ?
For me sin is suffering.
Suffering anything that breaks fellowship, disrupts the perfect peace I love with my eternal Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.
Distressing my soul to the point that I welcome His chastening .

 

[Hopeful 2]

You were implying that seed causes seed to grow, which is what I was disagreeing with. I would never disagree that seed brings forth after its kind. That's logical.

If anything, I was saying that seed can only bring forth after its own kind.
Having once been of Adam's seed, but reborn of God's seed, we can never bring forth Adam's sinful fruit.

 

[Hidden In Him]

If anything, I was saying that seed can only bring forth after its own kind.

That's not what you said, LoL.

But no biggie. I need to get down to doing some work anyway.

Blessings in Christ, and thanks for the polite interchange
- H

 

[Hopeful 2]

That's not what you said, LoL.

But no biggie. I need to get down to doing some work anyway.

Blessings in Christ, and thanks for the polite interchange
- H

In one sense, seed does cause seed to grow.
Apple seeds bring forth seed bearing apples.
Fig seeds, cause seed bearing figs to grow.
Grape seeds eventually bear grape seeds.
And God's seed ?
By the grace of God, it will bear sowers of more seed.

 

[Hidden In Him]

In one sense, seed does cause seed to grow.
Apple seeds bring forth seed bearing apples.
Fig seeds, cause seed bearing figs to grow.
Grape seeds eventually bear grape seeds.
And God's seed ?
By the grace of God, it will bear sowers of more seed.

No, Hopeful. What you are talking about there is the principle of seed being multiplied, as in “and multiply your seed sown.” Water and sunlight are what make seeds grow. Different thing

 

[live2blive]

When was the last time you met such a person who never commits sin ?
And how could you be certain such a person never sinned when they were not in your presence ?

I understand and respect your scepticism. In such cases I am sceptical too. My evaluation comes from knowing such a person really well. Much boils down to the true understanding of what sin is.

For me sin is suffering.
Suffering anything that breaks fellowship, disrupts the perfect peace I love with my eternal Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.
Distressing my soul to the point that I welcome His chastening .

I somewhat understand what you are saying, but are you sure that what you are describing is sin? For example, it is not clear if, let's say, you told a joke and later found that another person was really offended by it, would you think it was sin? Or if you told this joke intentionally, in retaliation, to cause pain to another person? Or if you said something and later realized it was not true? Or if you said something which is not true not to let your boss know that you did something wrong? Is each this action a sin if they caused you suffering?

 

[Hopeful 2]

No, Hopeful. What you are talking about there is the principle of seed being multiplied, as in “and multiply your seed sown.” Water and sunlight are what make seeds grow. Different thing

That is of a different context than 1 John 3:9.
God's seed can only bring forth Godly people.

 

[hawkman]

Thread is open again but thread bans will be next .

TOS 1.2 Those who identify themselves as Christians will be held accountable to conduct themselves as such. If they are truly governed by the Holy Spirit, they will not continually engage in goading, mocking, insulting, trolling, berating or inciting other members to anger and resentment. They will post in a Spirit of kindness and respect, even if there are doctrinal disagreements, and be quick to reconcile if differences of opinion should get heated. Disciplinary actions will be taken against those whom staff regards to be naming the name of Christ and yet are holding the truth in unrighteousness.

 

[live2blive]

I would like to continue this important discussion about sin. John the Baptist said at the Savior's baptism, "Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world". What was the sin of the world that Christ took away?

 

[Hopeful 2]

I would like to continue this important discussion about sin. John the Baptist said at the Savior's baptism, "Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world". What was the sin of the world that Christ took away?

Every sin !
More precisely, every sin that men will repent of and have washed away by the blood of Christ.

 

[Dyonisius the Areopagite]

I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me (Galatians 2:20). Paul says that Christ remaineth/liveth in him.

Below is a partial list of a preparation for Confession for the Orthodox Church.
Do you personally declare yourself free of any of these sins, in that you never commit any of them?

Sins Against Your Neighbours

Do you respect and obey your parents, and show respect to priests, superiors at work, teachers, and elders?

Have you offended them by rudeness or contradiction?

Have you insulted anyone?

Have you quarreled or fought with anyone? Have you hit anyone?

Are you always respectful to old people?

Are you ever angry, bad tempered or irritable?

Have you called anyone names? Do you use foul language?

Have you derided any that are disabled, poor, old or in some way disadvantaged?

Have you entertained bad feelings, ill will or hatred against anyone?

Have you forgiven those who have offended you?

Have you asked forgiveness from those whom you have offended?

Are you at peace with everyone?

Have you left the needy without help when you could have helped?

Have you attended the sick or elderly when they have asked you to do so?

Have you shown kindness and attention to all, remembering that God is expecting just such an attitude from you?

Have you hit animals without a cause or been cruel to them, or neglectful of those in your care?

Have you stolen anything?

Have you taken or used other people's things without asking?

Have you kept money or things that were lent you without returning them?

Have you wasted your employers' time or resources? Have you taken things from work for your own use, used the firm's phone or other facilities for your own purposes without permission or repayment?

Are you obstinate, and do you always try to have your own way?

Have you been inconsiderate of other people's feelings?

Have you tried to have your revenge against those who have offended you?

Have you harbored resentment? Have you deceived people?

Have you gossiped?

Have you told untruths?

Have you judged and condemned others?

Have you taken pains before approaching for confession to be reconciled with all?

Do you care for and seek first the salvation of your soul, the spiritual life and the kingdom of God, or have you put earthly considerations in the first place?

Have you been proud? Do you boast of your abilities, achievements, family, connections or riches?

Do you deem yourself entitled before God?

Are you vain, ambitious? Do you try to win praise and glory?

Do you bear it easily when you are rightly scolded or blamed? Do you own up to it? Do you bear it easily even when blamed, scolded or treated unjustly?

Do you think too much about your looks, outward appearance and the impression you make?

Have you sinned in thought, word or deed, by a look or glance, or in any other way against the seventh commandment? (Adultery, fornication, extra-marital sexual relationships with others, engaging in unnatural sexual acts; adulterous fantasizing, pornography, masturbation etc.)

Have you envied anyone anything? Have you been over-sensitive?

Have you been lazy? Have you done your duties heartily?

Have you wasted your time, energy or abilities in things that do not profit the soul?

Have you become obsessive about anything? Have you been despondent or listless?

Have you had thoughts of committing suicide, or worse yet threatened it worrying others or even attempting it?

Have you brought a curse on yourself or others or ill-wished them, being impatient?

Have you a weakness for alcohol? Have you drank too much, or become dependent on drink?

Have you taken, injected, or smoked mind-altering drugs, other than necessary medicines?

Have you watched television [or been on computer or phone] too much or indiscriminately? Have you given yourself up to any other similar pastime which wastes your time and energy and might have harmed you?

Have you been greedy, either with regard to food or to possessions?

Have you indulged in comfort-eating? Have you become accustomed to eating between meals?

Have you been picky about your food, or wasteful of foods, forgetting that so many people are without proper nourishment? Have you been extravagant? Have you been wasteful?

Is there any other sin, which burdens your conscience, or which you are ashamed to tell?

 

[Hopeful 2]

Below is a partial list of a preparation for Confession for the Orthodox Church.
Do you personally declare yourself free of any of these sins, in that you never commit any of them?

Sins Against Your Neighbours

Do you respect and obey your parents, and show respect to priests, superiors at work, teachers, and elders?

Have you offended them by rudeness or contradiction?

Have you insulted anyone?

Have you quarreled or fought with anyone? Have you hit anyone?

Are you always respectful to old people?

Are you ever angry, bad tempered or irritable?

Have you called anyone names? Do you use foul language?

Have you derided any that are disabled, poor, old or in some way disadvantaged?

Have you entertained bad feelings, ill will or hatred against anyone?

Have you forgiven those who have offended you?

Have you asked forgiveness from those whom you have offended?

Are you at peace with everyone?

Have you left the needy without help when you could have helped?

Have you attended the sick or elderly when they have asked you to do so?

Have you shown kindness and attention to all, remembering that God is expecting just such an attitude from you?

Have you hit animals without a cause or been cruel to them, or neglectful of those in your care?

Have you stolen anything?

Have you taken or used other people's things without asking?

Have you kept money or things that were lent you without returning them?

Have you wasted your employers' time or resources? Have you taken things from work for your own use, used the firm's phone or other facilities for your own purposes without permission or repayment?

Are you obstinate, and do you always try to have your own way?

Have you been inconsiderate of other people's feelings?

Have you tried to have your revenge against those who have offended you?

Have you harbored resentment? Have you deceived people?

Have you gossiped?

Have you told untruths?

Have you judged and condemned others?

Have you taken pains before approaching for confession to be reconciled with all?

Do you care for and seek first the salvation of your soul, the spiritual life and the kingdom of God, or have you put earthly considerations in the first place?

Have you been proud? Do you boast of your abilities, achievements, family, connections or riches?

Do you deem yourself entitled before God?

Are you vain, ambitious? Do you try to win praise and glory?

Do you bear it easily when you are rightly scolded or blamed? Do you own up to it? Do you bear it easily even when blamed, scolded or treated unjustly?

Do you think too much about your looks, outward appearance and the impression you make?

Have you sinned in thought, word or deed, by a look or glance, or in any other way against the seventh commandment? (Adultery, fornication, extra-marital sexual relationships with others, engaging in unnatural sexual acts; adulterous fantasizing, pornography, masturbation etc.)

Have you envied anyone anything? Have you been over-sensitive?

Have you been lazy? Have you done your duties heartily?

Have you wasted your time, energy or abilities in things that do not profit the soul?

Have you become obsessive about anything? Have you been despondent or listless?

Have you had thoughts of committing suicide, or worse yet threatened it worrying others or even attempting it?

Have you brought a curse on yourself or others or ill-wished them, being impatient?

Have you a weakness for alcohol? Have you drank too much, or become dependent on drink?

Have you taken, injected, or smoked mind-altering drugs, other than necessary medicines?

Have you watched television [or been on computer or phone] too much or indiscriminately? Have you given yourself up to any other similar pastime which wastes your time and energy and might have harmed you?

Have you been greedy, either with regard to food or to possessions?

Have you indulged in comfort-eating? Have you become accustomed to eating between meals?

Have you been picky about your food, or wasteful of foods, forgetting that so many people are without proper nourishment? Have you been extravagant? Have you been wasteful?

Is there any other sin, which burdens your conscience, or which you are ashamed to tell?

...the Law, by a new name...

 

[Dyonisius the Areopagite]

...the Law, by a new name...

I am not the one claiming that Christians must be sin free in order to be Christians.
That is about as pharisitical as one can get.

BTW, before you dump on the Church you should first know her Doctrines.
The Church does not teach adherence to the Law. Sin, in Orthodoxy, is a condition of spiritual illness which can keep us distant from God's Light. The Church is a hospital for the treatment of the sinful condition and Jesus is the Head Physician.

 

[Hopeful 2]

I am not the one claiming that Christians must be sin free in order to be Christians.
That is about as pharisitical as one can get.

BTW, before you dump on the Church you should first know her Doctrines.
The Church does not teach adherence to the Law. Sin, in Orthodoxy, is a condition of spiritual illness which can keep us distant from God's Light. The Church is a hospital for the treatment of the sinful condition and Jesus is the Head Physician.

The church has the cure for sin.
His name is Jesus Christ, and those baptized into Him walk after the Spirit and not the "flesh".