A message for all Sabbath breakers.....Owned!!

[Jay T]

We don't do away with the Sabbath, guibox, we just understand the meaning of it. I now honor my Lord Jesus Christ everyday of the week! But the OT tells us to only honor it one day a week.

Matthew 24:20 "But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be".

 

[Jay T]

[Who knows? Maybe even some of those assigned by the GC to monitor us will be converted?

Psalms 19:7 "The law of the LORD [is] perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD [is] sure, making wise the simple".

 

[Scott]

Matthew 24:20 "But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:

Whose flight!?? ;-)

 

[Jay T]

Matthew 24:20 "But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:

Whose flight!?? ;-)

How can we know yet who...will be alive, during the great tribulation, yet to come ?

 

[Scott]

Matthew 24:16
"then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains."

I think that narrows it down pretty much, lets be sure not to ignore context.

 

[SputnikBoy]

Matthew 24:20 "But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:

Whose flight!?? ;-)

Sputnik: The followers of Jesus. Oh ...but how can that be? The fall of Jerusalem occurred in AD70 and by then, of course, the Sabbath had been abolished. Hmmm. And I always believed that Jesus was never wrong!

 

[Scott]

Sputnik: The followers of Jesus.

I think you might want to read my last post again, you'll see that reading verses in context always helps in understanding them.

The fall of Jerusalem occurred in AD70

What does this have to do with Matthew 24?!

 

[Heidi]

Matthew 24:20 "But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:

Whose flight!?? ;-)

How can we know yet who...will be alive, during the great tribulation, yet to come ?

Jesus was speaking to the Jews when he said that, Jay. So what do you rest from on one day of the week? Godly work during the week, or ungodly work? :o

 

[SputnikBoy]

Sputnik: The followers of Jesus.

I think you might want to read my last post again, you'll see that reading verses in context always helps in understanding them.

[quote:19ef9]The fall of Jerusalem occurred in AD70

What does this have to do with Matthew 24?![/quote:19ef9]

Sputnik: Are we not talking about the Roman siege of Jerusalem that occurred in about AD70? Isn't Jesus referring to this event when He says, "Pray that your flight will not take place in winter or on the Sabbath (Matthew 24:20)"? Isn't He making reference to the Christians who would need to flee from the scene of destruction? Please point me to my error in understanding this passage, Scott.

The main point of this particular passage under discussion is, of course, that, 40-some years after His death, Jesus more than implied that the Sabbath would NOT have been 'abolished'. In fact, it would have been an ideal time for Jesus to prompt His followers that the Sabbath was about to be phased out. But, He didn't. He knew that, in AD70, the Sabbath would still be observed by His FOLLOWERS. That His remark was simply aimed at the Jews is purely wishful thinking by some!

 

[Scott]

Are we not talking about the Roman siege of Jerusalem that occurred in about AD70?

You may be, but Jesus was not. Matthew 24 's prophecy has not happened yet.

Isn't Jesus referring to this event when He says, "Pray that your flight will not take place in winter or on the Sabbath (Matthew 24:20)"? Isn't He making reference to the Christians who would need to flee from the scene of destruction? Please point me to my error in understanding this passage, Scott.

This is the same thing I've explained to JayT. This warning is for Jews, whom Christ knew would still be keeping the law because they rejected Him as Saviour. Why the Jews, verse 16 makes it pretty clear.

The big issue here regarding the Sabbath is because Jews were only allowed to travel so far on the Sabbath. There is a question that I've repeated asked any SDA in this forum, how far do you all travel to go to church on Saturday. Nobody will answer me. Notice the 2 situations presented by verse 20, in the winter it will be colder and on the Sabbath they will have to break the law to flee.

Jesus more than implied that the Sabbath would NOT have been 'abolished'.

Jesus knew that the Jews would still be keeping the Old Covenant because they reject Him as Saviour.

That His remark was simply aimed at the Jews is purely wishful thinking by some!

The context doesn't lie, as I've shown with verse 16. Do 2 things for me, find Judea on a map and then answer the following question. Is Judea a Christian populated area or is it a Jewish populated area?!!?

 

[sadiebelle]

Just coming into this thread but having argued this subject before: I'd like to get a few comments on what Sabbath Keepers believe "resting in Christ" really means. We see this phrase throught the NT, and especially in Hebrews. If the Sabbath means rest and if Christ says we can find rest in him, isn't every day a time to rest in Him? I don't believe there is just one specific day we should set aside for worship and rest. We can and should do this every day. We also should gather as the body of Christ and fellowship but this too can be done anytime. Not just Sat. or Sun.

Your thoughts?

 

[Jay T]

Just coming into this thread but having argued this subject before: I'd like to get a few comments on what Sabbath Keepers believe "resting in Christ" really means. We see this phrase throught the NT, and especially in Hebrews. If the Sabbath means rest and if Christ says we can find rest in him, isn't every day a time to rest in Him? I don't believe there is just one specific day we should set aside for worship and rest. We can and should do this every day. We also should gather as the body of Christ and fellowship but this too can be done anytime. Not just Sat. or Sun.

Your thoughts?

Then you reject Christ's statement ? Matthew 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

 

[Scott]

By fulfilling the law, Jesus made Himself at least equal to it, and then by dying for sinful man, He made Himself greater than the law. Those of us who are in Christ are not under a death sentence, we are under grace.

 

[sadiebelle]

By fulfilling the law, Jesus made Himself at least equal to it, and then by dying for sinful man, He made Himself greater than the law. Those of us who are in Christ are not under a death sentence, we are under grace.

Amen. He 'accomplished' the law. The reason we still try to be obedient to the law is because it's good for us. Obedience is what God wants for our lives to be healthy Christians. However, we will never fully accomplish the law and live 'sin free' until we have been fully restored and glorified and before the Lord in heaven for eternity. This 'flesh' yearns for THAT day because all I can do right now, is be obedient with the help, guidence and convictions of the Holy Spirit.

 

[Servant_2000]

By fulfilling the law, Jesus made Himself at least equal to it, and then by dying for sinful man, He made Himself greater than the law. Those of us who are in Christ are not under a death sentence, we are under grace.

Amen. He 'accomplished' the law. The reason we still try to be obedient to the law is because it's good for us. Obedience is what God wants for our lives to be healthy Christians. However, we will never fully accomplish the law and live 'sin free' until we have been fully restored and glorified and before the Lord in heaven for eternity. This 'flesh' yearns for THAT day because all I can do right now, is be obedient with the help, guidence and convictions of the Holy Spirit.

Do believe and realize? that two laws could not stand in the same Covenant. Therefore to establish the Gospel grace and truth, which came by Christ, the law was "taken away." And since it was taken away, of course there are those who insist to "keep it",

The manner in which it was taken away is thus explained in Christ's own words: "Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled" Matt 5:17, 18.

This text clearly states that when the law reaches its fulfillment it will pass away. It will not pass till fulfilled. So it is not eternal, but when fulfilled it was to reach an end. Then, the Lord points to Himself as the fulfillment of the law and prophetsâ€â€"For Christ Is the end of the law" Romans 10:4.

DO YOU BELIEVE?

"The law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ" Galatians 3:24.

Since Christ is come "we are no longer under a schoolmaster" Galatians 3:25

"not under the law, but under grace" Rom 6:14.

We can go on all day about the Law.

But avoid Foolish disputes, genealoies, contentions, and striving about the LAW; for they are UNPROFITABLE and USELESS. Titus 3:9

Tell us about your realtionship with Jesus your Savior.

 

[Soma-Sight]

Isnt it just safer to worship on the Seventh Day if it "doesnt matter" anyways?

If it makes no difference by default a rational person would go with the most obvious choice which is the Seventh Day. Being that the Adventists make such a fuss over it.....

If you are wrong and it doesnt matter than you are fine anyways......

If you are right and the Sabbath is Saturday than you are following the commandment.

Either way worshipping on Saturday is a Win Win situation.

 

[Henry]

soma

The early church met on the first day of the week under the new covenant in honor of the Jesus coming out of the grave. This is what the bible teaches us, and not only that but the bible also teaches us that Jesus is the sabbath, when we place our faith in him all the work is done and we rest.

I remember when you were not a christian and you truste me then. Listen to me now, the seventh day doctrine of the sabbath is legalism made from twisting verses around it.

Our salvation is not based on a day we meet, and no seventh day adventest even keeps that sabbath laws anyways, I find it a terrible bit of hyprocy on their parts, to comdemn others for not doing what they do not do anyways.

Please let me say this in love, Ellen White was a false prophet and you need to study out side the context of her teachings for truth.

By the way, have you checked out http://www.ntrf.org here is a great site with some really needed truths.

 

[sadiebelle]

By fulfilling the law, Jesus made Himself at least equal to it, and then by dying for sinful man, He made Himself greater than the law. Those of us who are in Christ are not under a death sentence, we are under grace.

Amen. He 'accomplished' the law. The reason we still try to be obedient to the law is because it's good for us. Obedience is what God wants for our lives to be healthy Christians. However, we will never fully accomplish the law and live 'sin free' until we have been fully restored and glorified and before the Lord in heaven for eternity. This 'flesh' yearns for THAT day because all I can do right now, is be obedient with the help, guidence and convictions of the Holy Spirit.

Do believe and realize? that two laws could not stand in the same Covenant. Therefore to establish the Gospel grace and truth, which came by Christ, the law was "taken away." And since it was taken away, of course there are those who insist to "keep it",

The manner in which it was taken away is thus explained in Christ's own words: "Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled" Matt 5:17, 18.

This text clearly states that when the law reaches its fulfillment it will pass away. It will not pass till fulfilled. So it is not eternal, but when fulfilled it was to reach an end. Then, the Lord points to Himself as the fulfillment of the law and prophetsâ€â€"For Christ Is the end of the law" Romans 10:4.

DO YOU BELIEVE?

"The law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ" Galatians 3:24.

Since Christ is come "we are no longer under a schoolmaster" Galatians 3:25

"not under the law, but under grace" Rom 6:14.

We can go on all day about the Law.

But avoid Foolish disputes, genealoies, contentions, and striving about the LAW; for they are UNPROFITABLE and USELESS. Titus 3:9

Tell us about your realtionship with Jesus your Savior.

I'm finding it hard to understand what you want from me and I'm having trouble understanding your position. Yes, the law has been fulfilled. However, we are not to abolish or destroy the law as it is useful to understand God's holiness and righteousness. Are you saying it's okay to be disobedient? I don't get your position.
:-?

 

[Soma-Sight]

Henry,

Good to hear from you brother!

Hope all is well for you. This Sabbath issue can really give you a migraine to think about it.

I guess the important thing is we both place Christ as the authority in our lives and thats what will really count in the hard days ahead.

Take care Brother. 8-)

 

[Servant_2000]

I'm finding it hard to understand what you want from me and I'm having trouble understanding your position. Yes, the law has been fulfilled. However, we are not to abolish or destroy the law as it is useful to understand God's holiness and righteousness. Are you saying it's okay to be disobedient? I don't get your position.
:-?

Sadiebelle. Hello,

you said>I'm finding it hard to understand what you want from me and I'm having trouble understanding your position.

ME> what I want from you? What you offering? :P And what trouble are you having to understand my position?

I have no position, other than what Paul the apostle's position was, and that we are not under law but under grace.

You said> yes the law has been fulfilled.

Don’t you see, Sadiebelle? Christ’s purpose in abolishing the entire Law of Moses was to show you that behind it, behind the Law given by Christ to Moses on Sinai, was the Lawgiver, Christ Himself.

Here’s a little parable: On the cross, Christ was holding the Ten Commandments written by His own finger on two tablets of stone out in front of Him. He was holding them out there for our Father in heaven to see. Not for him alone, but also for the whole world, yea the whole universe, to see.

Meaning what? Meaning that He -- and He alone, certainly NOT you, Jay T Heidi, nor myself -- had kept the law, fulfilled it. Perfectly. Right down to the last jot (i-dotting) and tittle (t-crossing). Then, having shown the universe that He and he alone had fulfilled the law, he cried, “It is finished!â€Â

And at that instant, just as He died, with truly supernatural power, He threw down the two tablets of stone and smashed them to smithereens on the rocks at the foot of the cross!

Praise God!

Now, Sadiebelle, why would he do such a thing? Because He liked to destroy better-than-any-museum-quality stonewear? Hardly!

It was because the two tables of stone belonged to Him, not to Moses, not to the Pharisees, not to our friends the Adventists, nor even to Saidebelle.

It was because He -- alone in His naked and vulnerable humanity -- was a better-by-far repository for the law than any ark of the covenant in any tabernacle in any wilderness could ever be.

It was because He was in the process of destroying the temple of Solomon and everthing in it -- INCLUDING THE STONY TEN COMMANDMENTS -- and building it up again and everything in it. And all in the space of three days. He finished the reconstruction job early Sunday morning and left behind Him an empty tomb.

It was because he had REPLACED the law with Himself.

Or, better, it was because He had REVEALED the eternal true law behind the Law of Moses. Which had always been – and which remains today and forever – Himself and Himself alone.

Praise God!

You can throw away your veil now, Sidebelle, and behold Christ on the cross in all His vulnerable nakedness and pain and bleeding wounds -- with the Ten Commandments smashed to bits beneath His feet!

Praise God!

Praying for you, Saidebelle, that you will someday see Him with an unveiled face (2 Cor. 3:18),

You said>we are not to abolish or destroy the law as it is useful to understand God's holiness and righteousness.

Bzzzzzzt! Wrong answer! He said He came not to destroy the Law till AFTER all was fulfilled. The implication is that he DID come to destroy, or, to use Paul's word, "abolish" it.

But he "abolished" it only in a very special sense: He destroyed the Law only as a SUBSTITUTE for Himself -- Jesus Christ the Righteous God on Earth Among Us!

But as you rightly point ou the Law is indeed not abolished or destroyed for those who don't accept Christ. For them it is still a schoolmaster to lead to Christ. It is still a shadow to point to Him. It is still "a bundle of ordinances" that is against you -- so that you stand guilty and naked before the God of the universe, who is indeed Jesus Christ, and your Judge.

So which is it for you, Saidebelle? Is it abolished and destroyed for you? If so, you are no longer under it, but under grace. If so, you are no longer in bondage to it's terrible rule. It is no longer the impossible burden.

But if it hasn't been abolished and destroyed for you, Saidebelle, then I would invite you here and now to accept Christ, for -- unlike the Law of Moses -- His yoke is easy and his burden is light!

Bless you, my sister,