A message for all Sabbath breakers.....Owned!!

[Servant_2000]

Thanks, but no thanks. No triangulation is necessary or even desirable.. I will stick with the Bible and the Holy Spirit. The Gospel is not so complicated that we need scholars to interpret it for us.

Besides, I find myself to be in good company considering the Apostle Paul was a tentmaker by trade (who by the way fancied himself as being well schooled in the Law until he had a certain experience on the road to Damascus) and Peter was an uneducated fisherman


In His Grace

 

[Jay T]

[quote="Scott'} This is a Christian forum, not a courtroom. So act appropriately.[/quote]Interesting you should mention a courtroom.
1 Peter 4:17 "For the time [is come] that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if [it] first [begin] at us, what shall the end [be] of them that obey not the gospel of God ?

4:18 And if the righteous scarcely be saved..."


Eccles. 12:13 "Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this [is] the whole [duty] of man".

12:14 "For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether [it be] good, or whether [it be] evil".

 

[Jay T]

You're joking, I hope. Where in the bible does it say that Jesus observed any Sabbath the way the Jews understood the Sabbath? They accused him of breaking the Sabbath because they had no clue what it means, nor do you.

The 7th day Sabbath is, the ultimate test of faith.......

http://home.earthlink.net/~se7en_7/

 

[guibox]

Thanks, but no thanks. No triangulation is necessary or even desirable.. I will stick with the Bible and the Holy Spirit. The Gospel is not so complicated that we need scholars to interpret it for us.

That tells me about your spirit and mindset. Apparently it is 'safer' to believe what you want regardless of possible options that may alter initial views. A deeper search of scriptural meaning is not necessary I guess. A cursory reading seems to satisfy you regardless of contradictions and lack of comparing the scripture with itself in context.

Such thinking is what has spawned countless heresies throughout the ages.

If you're afraid of the truth, then keep running and believe what you want no matter how many holes there are in it.

I guess there is no longer any use for our discussion in this matter. All further Sabbath discussions are useless and I hereby remove myself from them.

Thanks y'all.

guibox

 

[Servant_2000]

Thanks, but no thanks. No triangulation is necessary or even desirable.. I will stick with the Bible and the Holy Spirit. The Gospel is not so complicated that we need scholars to interpret it for us.

That tells me about your spirit and mindset. Apparently it is 'safer' to believe what you want regardless of possible options that may alter initial views. A deeper search of scriptural meaning is not necessary I guess. A cursory reading seems to satisfy you regardless of contradictions and lack of comparing the scripture with itself in context.

Such thinking is what has spawned countless heresies throughout the ages.

If you're afraid of the truth, then keep running and believe what you want no matter how many holes there are in it.

I guess there is no longer any use for our discussion in this matter. All further Sabbath discussions are useless and I hereby remove myself from them.

Thanks y'all.

guibox

We Christians believe that we are not under Law but under grace, not for our "own reasons" as you state, but because scripture tells us so (Gal 3:23-25, Gal. 5:18, Rom. 6:14, and others).

Contrary to assertions that you made, we Christians strongly believe that we are called to Holiness, sanctification, obedience, and victorious living. Living by grace is not a license to sin (Rom. 6:15).

What we disagree with you about it the assertion that observance of any Jewish holy day is a Christian act of obedience, holiness, or sanctification.

You have not been able to produce a single instruction to any Christian believer, Jew or Gentile instructing us to keep a particular day holier than another and yet in an earlier post you made rather harsh judgements about those that don't observe the Jewish weekly Sabbaths. In doing so, you place yourself squarely in opposition to scripture. Talk about heresies

4 Who are you to judge someone else's servant? To his own master he stands or falls. And he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him stand.
5 One man considers one day more sacred than another; another man considers every day alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind. Romans 14:4-5 (NIV)


14 having canceled the written code, with its regulations, that was against us and that stood opposed to us; he took it away, nailing it to the cross.
15 And having disarmed the powers and authorities, he made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them by the cross.
16 Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day.
17 These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ. Colossians 2:14-17 (NIV)

 

[Jay T]

We Christians believe that we are not under Law but under grace

Had the Christian world understood what the term, 'under the Law meant'....they would have realized that every person who attends Sunday worship services ...IS UNDER the Law.



Romans 3:19 "Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God".
Under the Law means, a person is guilty !

Can a person be guilty of not stealing...not lying...?

No, A person can only be guilty of wrong, as in committing sin.

 

[Heidi]

Well, Jay, all I can say is that when you die, you will then be condemned because according to you, you will be guilty because all of us fall short of the glory of God. All of us. Paul asked God to take the thorn from his flesh but God refused saying, "My grace is sufficent for thee." But not according to you. ;-)

 

[Servant_2000]

Romans 3:19 "Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God".

Why stop there Jay T? Keep reading..in fact here is a description of faith in Jesus Christ:

20 Therefore no one will be declared righteous in his sight by observing the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of sin.
21 But now a righteousness from God, apart from law, has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify.
22 This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference,
23 for all have sinned and (continue to) fall short of the glory of God,
24 and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.
25 God presented Him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in His blood. He did this to demonstrate His justice, because in His forbearance He had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished--
26 He did it to demonstrate His justice at the present time, so as to be just AND the one who justifies those who have faith in Jesus.
27 Where, then, is boasting? (Or, forgive me if I add, witnessing to one's own changed life.) It is excluded. On what principle? On that of observing the law? No, but on that of faith.
28 For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from observing the law.

 

[Servant_2000]

[quote="servant_2000":4482c]
We Christians believe that we are not under Law but under grace

Had the Christian world understood what the term, 'under the Law meant'....they would have realized that every person who attends Sunday worship services ...IS UNDER the Law.[/quote:4482c]

Hmm...using Jay's words, a slight change though...

Had the SDA world understood what the term "Everyone is to stay where he is on the seventh day; no one is to go out." meant..they would have realized that every person who goes to church on saturday is in violation of this commandment.


Romans 13:8-10

8 Owe no one anything except to love one another, for he who loves another has fulfilled the law. 9 For the commandments, "You shall not commit adultery," "You shall not murder," "You shall not steal," "You shall not bear false witness," "You shall not covet," and if there is any other commandment, are all summed up in this saying, namely, "You shall love your neighbor as yourself." 10 Love does no harm to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.

 

[Heidi]

Sorry, guibox, but because you interpret the word;"day" as a day of the week, you will always be confused. Is it Monday, we're supposed to honor our Lord & rest from our work? Or perhaps Saturday or Sunday? So who's right? We will never know because the bible does not say that "day" means day of the week. Hebrews says God set aside a certain day, calling it Today, which is even capitalized to emphasize that fact. But of course you ignore it and look for a day of the week like the Jews still do. So because you don't understand what the bible means, you will misinterpret what the Sabbath means & always have doubt. But since I believe Hebrews 4:1-9, I can never break the Sabbath because I always honor Jesus Christ every day of the week and don't rest from passing along the gospel on any day of the week. And neither did Jesus or the apostles.

I have a question for you: Would you prefer that your wife served you because she was supposed to, or because she genuinely loves you? This produces no personal relationship with you, but only a robot who does what she's told. And only when you understand that, will you know what a personal relationship with Christ means. You don't consult a rule book to see what you're supposed to do for the Lord today. You respond out of love for him on every day of the week! And that is why Paul said "Love is the fulfillment of the law and the commandments." Love has no boundaries, it is not out of fear that we will do the "wrong" thing. It produces joy that cannot be stopped on any day of the week. "For out of the overflow of the heart, the mouth speaks."

But if serving the Lord is only out of obligation, then one will consult the bible as one looks at a laudry list with no heart involved, only duty. He will see the bible as Jesus says; "Teachings that are but rules taught by men." "They honor me with their lips but ther hearts are far from me." That's like me looking at a chart and asking; "What am I supposed to do for my husband today?" instead of responding out of love for him. "Love must be sincere." It cannot be an obvligation, chore, or duty. It is a heartfelt response to what Christ has done for us. "If we have no love in our hearts, then our obedience means nothing. And that is what Jesus was trying to tell the Pharisees. You can't clean the cup from the outside. Clean it from the inside and the outside will become clean as well.

 

[Scott]

That is definitely an assumption that cannot be proven true at all.

I think we've all found you to be hot headed.

Do you monitor everyone's discussions so intently Scott, or just mine?

I keep an eye on those who have a tendancy to stir up problems. Anyway, I didn't give you a formal warning, I only asked you to focus more on the topic and less on insulting people. Do you have a problem with that?! And no, I don't threaten. I'll just give you a warning.

If you have a problem with that warning you received awhile back then talk to Judy. Anyone is free to look at the Jude 7 thread and see what you got a warning for. They'll also see your error in understanding Revelation 20 amidst other errors that reveal your misunderstanding of prophetic events. Which I believe was evident even to you which was why you resorted to the dishonest tactics you tried to use.

 

[Servant_2000]

You know, Scott, I have noticed huge irony in speaking with SDA's and others who refuse to believe that Jesus Christ is our full and complete salvation. They tout the necessity of works, and yet they have no compunctions of stretching the truth beyond recognition or resorting to ad hominem tactics to try and prove their points. All this at the same time of proclaiming that their "faith works in love."

What is wrong with this picture?

 

[Heidi]

Amen, servant! I've always wondered if people who stretch the truth in the bible, whether it's making Mary sinless or misundertanding the Sabbath, etc, are aware they are doing it. What do you think?

 

[guibox]

Amen, servant! I've always wondered if people who stretch the truth in the bible, whether it's making Mary sinless or misundertanding the Sabbath, etc, are aware they are doing it. What do you think?

"Pull the plank out of your own eye before you remove the sliver out of your brother's"

And that goes for all of you elitist thinking.

As for you, Scott, I have not insulted anyone, in the Jude 7 thread or anywhere else. You somehow got your nose out of joint and took things way to seriously and bordered on abusing your power. I sent a few mods to look at the thread. Nobody admonished me for it and one person even said they didn't think I said anything wrong.

As far as being insulting, I have seen more venom on this forum towards Catholics by Heidi, bibleberean and others that would make even the most anti-Catholic SDA blush.

Have you warned them? I doubt it.

'Twist the truth'? How about 'ignore the truth' and still maintain you're right? That seems to be the problem for most of you in these discussions. Instead you'll resort (like Heidi and servant2000) in questioning the 'spiritual' state of some of us others which is a bigger insult then criticizing my opinion.

However, that doesn't mean anything. The elitist brush paints everyone but yourself who is guilty in all the above ways (especially scripture twisting, Scott)

 

[Servant_2000]

"Pull the plank out of your own eye before you remove the sliver out of your brother's"

And that goes for all of you elitist thinking

"elitist thinking" that's a new one on me...can you back that up with Scripture?

We can't get all the sticks out of our own eyes. Only Christ can do that.

It would be great if we didn't have to judge anyone. Unfortunately we do.

In 1 Corinthians 5 and 6 Paul "shames" those there "made holy in Christ Jesus" (1:2, RBV) for failing to make all sorts of judgments.

One member was sleeping with his step-mother (5:1-2) and the Corinthian saints, rather than "grieving" were "puffed up" about it, meaning they were proud that they felt so sophisticated that they could just let that matter pass.

Paul said, "I have already ... passed judgment on the one who thus behaved" (5:3).

Others were also "immoral or greedy or a robber." Paul: "You must not associate with him, nor even eat with one of that type" (5:13).

This is not the type of judgment that sends a person to heaven or hell. It is the behavior of others that you must judge in order to determine your behavior towards them.

Paul is not talking about judging the affairs of the afterlife. He is talking about judging the affairs of this life.

"Do you not know that we shall judge ... affairs of this life?" (6:3).

And Jesus says to first pull the plank from one's own eye (that is, accept Christ) and then see clearly to remove the speck from a brother's eye.

He never says to leave the speck there! He says to remove it.

Blessings on you quibox,

 

[Servant_2000]

Amen, servant! I've always wondered if people who stretch the truth in the bible, whether it's making Mary sinless or misundertanding the Sabbath, etc, are aware they are doing it. What do you think?

^^ Don't give to dogs what belongs to God. They will only turn and attack you. Don't throw pearls down in front of pigs. They will trample all over them.^^

Genuine New Testiment Command of God....on Earth...

 

[Scott]

As for you, Scott, I have not insulted anyone, in the Jude 7 thread or anywhere else. You somehow got your nose out of joint and took things way to seriously and bordered on abusing your power. I sent a few mods to look at the thread. Nobody admonished me for it and one person even said they didn't think I said anything wrong.

I didn't say you insulted me in the Jude 7 thread, thats not what you were warned for. Let me also state for the record, I warned you informally to stop misquoting me and that I would give you a warning if you did it again. You apparently thought I was bluffing, but that is something I don't do. You misrepresented and misquoted me despite my asking you not to do. The next time you plan on sending other Mods to look for the problem, at least get it right what you were warned for. My position was/is clearly stated in my posts leaving no room for confusion or misinterpretation. You however thought it would be easier to make something up and pretend I said it rather than acutually attempt to refute my position.

The discussion of your earlier warning and the previous informal warning are done on this thread. If you wish to discuss it further then do so in a PM.

 

[Scott]

You know, Scott, I have noticed huge irony in speaking with SDA's and others who refuse to believe that Jesus Christ is our full and complete salvation. They tout the necessity of works, and yet they have no compunctions of stretching the truth beyond recognition or resorting to ad hominem tactics to try and prove their points. All this at the same time of proclaiming that their "faith works in love."

What is wrong with this picture?

: , so true. The most obvious problem to me is that the entire SDA doctrine revolves around keeping the Sabbath day. Its strange when we know Christ's resurrection needs to be the focal point of our faith. And we know this because we are reminded all throughout God's Word.

You also noticed that every argument the feel needs to be shifted back to the Sabbath keeping as they feel its theor best argument. But from studying SDA doctrine its no surprise they aren't will to get into discussion about other topics because of vulnerability of EGW teachings. When a faith is hinged on false prophecies and false prophets it always comes up lacking, and it has been proven over and over on these forums.

BTW, thanks for the compliment a few posts back. I enjoy reading your posts too and am encouraged to know there are others like yourself who know and defend the truth of God's Word too.

 

[guibox]

: , so true. The most obvious problem to me is that the entire SDA doctrine revolves around keeping the Sabbath day. Its strange when we know Christ's resurrection needs to be the focal point of our faith. And we know this because we are reminded all throughout God's Word.

You also noticed that every argument the feel needs to be shifted back to the Sabbath keeping as they feel its theor best argument. But from studying SDA doctrine its no surprise they aren't will to get into discussion about other topics because of vulnerability of EGW teachings. When a faith is hinged on false prophecies and false prophets it always comes up lacking, and it has been proven over and over on these forums.

BTW, thanks for the compliment a few posts back. I enjoy reading your posts too and am encouraged to know there are others like yourself who know and defend the truth of God's Word too.

Oh heck! We're just getting railroaded into a certain box of elitist thinking no matter what the facts, so lets just tell the truth right now, shall we?:

Ahem...

"Seventh Day Adventists are a cult who believe we must keep the Sabbath to have salvation as well as all the other OT laws. EGW was on par with the apostles and her writings must be taken on par with scriptures. If there is any deviation from her writings to the Bible, a good Adventist must side with EGW. We cannot know at all that we are saved, but must work by rules of codes and conduct to get justification in God's eyes."

There. Our official statement of faith...Now you elitist thinkers don't have to speculate and come to these conclusions anymore. It has been done for you!

Oy! :roll:

 

[Scott]

I sense a bit of cynicism from you guibox. :-?