A mortal God?

[AlexBC]

In my case, I was born with a bicuspid aortic valve. I've had a heart murmur since birth. The early stenosis was caused by my form of heart disease which crept up the valve and created an aortic root aneurysm. Actually, this is common for those of us with bicuspid valves. Essentially the stenosis is simply a build up of calcium around the flaps of the valve which hardens the flaps and causes them not to close all the way. As the heart beats, pressure from the artery is isolated between beats as the valve opens and closes. Because Stenosis is a buildup of calcium and hardens the valve, the valve is not able to close all the way and what is called regurgetation occurs. This simply means that blood flows back into the heart by the leaky valve.

From what I've read, you can't do anything to prevent the stenosis nor can you do anything to slow it down. It has you for life and only gets worse. Treatment is by way of valve replacement when the regurgitation gets to extreme or in the case of my aneurysm, that also constitutes immediate surgery. In my case, it's a very risky operation since the valve transitions directly into the aneurysm and both would have to be done at the same time. Cleveland has a pretty good success rate, but I'm not really excited about the idea of open heart surgery.

I have the results of my first checkup and I have a copy of my last checkup. The stenosis is gone, and the aneurysm has shrunk. This defy's medicine.

Hmm. Interesting. One of my friends is head of cardiology at a teaching university here in Tokyo so i'd have to ask him about spontaneous healing of arterial stenosis. In any case, congrats. Great news!

 

[WIP]

To me it does not matter why God chooses to do anything he chooses to do. He's my creator. He can do with me what he wishes and whether I like it or not is of no consequence. It will be done according to His will. I can kick and scream all I want and it changes nothing. I can be obstinant and arrogant and self-important and all it will do is lead to death or I can surrender to Him and accept Him and see Him for who He really is and live a life of untold peace. Its my choice.

I would ask this question. Why did God; the almighty, the all powerful, the all knowing, the ever-living, the everlasting creator of all things choose to create insignifant, arrogant, selfish little me? Think about it? Why would he?

 

[stovebolts]

Hmm. Interesting. One of my friends is head of cardiology at a teaching university here in Tokyo so i'd have to ask him about spontaneous healing of arterial stenosis. In any case, congrats. Great news!

That would be great. Let me know what he says.

BTW, when I was first diagnosed, I was given a list of do's and don'ts. You see, I'm athletic, and a runner at that. I am in my upper 40's and I've captured my heart rate several times with a heart rate monitor in the low 190's at the end of a sustained sprint. On of the big don'ts was to keep my heart rate below 140 due to my aneurysm. Not gonna happen in my case and I'll cruise very comfortably in the 160's and come race day for a good 5k, I'll sustain high 170's until the last mile and then run mid 180's and finish in the low 190's. This type of behavior should stretch the aneurysm, not cause it to get smaller.

Ask him if he thinks that had anything to do with the disappearance of the stenosis. I'm curious what he would say.

 

[Atothetheist]

Nope what? Below you agree that you harbor resentment. Could you let me know what your "noping" on?



Let me tell you one thing that I have that you can never have. Hope.
Revelation 21:4 and he shall wipe away every tear from their eyes; and death shall be no more; neither shall there be mourning, nor crying, nor pain, any more: the first things are passed away.

Again, your resentment is blurring your vision toward God's word. Our God is a God of mercy and Justice, yet you will not receive Him. Instead you paint a picture of a God that is not supported by the biblical text, but instead fabricate an argument based on your resentment. Amazing.



A judge is only a bad judge when he does not administer justice. This assumes that a violation has been committed. You are not fine without control. You want control of things that are well beyond your control and you can't have what you want. It is much like a Burger King Christian... They only want God their way... Free will means that we are free to make our own choices. Again, we live in a fallen world because of sin. Life is not fair. If anyone told you it was, well... they lied to you.

You can't control that somebody suffers. Say they are born with a defect or something tragic happens in their life. It's part of the world we live in. You mentioned earlier something about evil. Do you even know what evil is?

Tell me, is evil something that's done, or something that's not done?


The Bible says that God is love. Tell me in your own words, what is love? Also, tell me what good is using your own words.


You mean because he doesn't act the way you think he should act, he's not all powerful. Amazing conclusion considering you don't even know the biblical narrative.


I would suggest that if this is your view, then you have no business being on this forum and I would kindly ask you to leave.



The options don't represent the Biblical God I serve. Sorry. :waving

I am noping about you think I must control things, and am afriad of uncontrol.

I am perfectly fine with me being controlless, as this world suggests, but if there is a God, and he is the one you describe, he wouldn't give innocents illnesses, and pain, and suffering.

Love is an emotion that makes us attracted to a mate, and want to be with them, never do anything on purpose that hurts the mate he/she is in love with.

That is my def, take what you want from it.

2 Thanks for being welcoming, but until I get banned, I won't leave. I am not breaking the rules being here.

Good- anything that benefits the wellbeing of the recipient. That action is good. I base people's actions and judge them accordingly to the good verses the bad.

 

[Danus]

Love is an emotion that makes us attracted to a mate, and want to be with them, never do anything on purpose that hurts the mate he/she is in love with.

That is my def, take what you want from it.

That's not the biblical definition of Love. Why do you limit love to (As Tina Turner would say) A second hand emotion?

Is it nothing more than that to you? Just a way to feel attracted to something or someone? I love ice cream, I love the color blue, I love that person because they are attractive to me. Is that the depth of Love for you? That's the sum total of your definition of love? Because if it is, and I take what I want of it, you can keep your shallow definition, but I'd suggest you rename it from Love to like, or amuse, or fascinated, or entertained. Those words seem more fitting don't you think?

Are you afraid of a deeper meaning of the word Love, or do you really think that Love is an emotion?

 

[Atothetheist]

That's not the biblical definition of Love. Why do you limit love to (As Tina Turner would say) A second hand emotion?

Is it nothing more than that to you? Just a way to feel attracted to something or someone? I love ice cream, I love the color blue, I love that person because they are attractive to me. Is that the depth of Love for you? That's the sum total of your definition of love? Because if it is, and I take what I want of it, you can keep your shallow definition, but I'd suggest you rename it from Love to like, or amuse, or fascinated, or entertained. Those words seem more fitting don't you think?

Are you afraid of a deeper meaning of the word Love, or do you really think that Love is an emotion?

Love is an emotion. I never said love wasn't a POWERFUL emotion.
If you think otherwise, and if your only source of proof is the Bible, then by all means, keep it to yourself.

 

[Danus]

Love is an emotion. I never said love wasn't a POWERFUL emotion.
If you think otherwise, and if your only source of proof is the Bible, then by all means, keep it to yourself.

Love is a way of life, it's a condition, It's a nature of being that transcends emotion. If you need proof, then you can't accept it, don't know it, and have not experienced it.

All I asked is if your idea that Love as an emotion = the sum-total of your understanding of Love and you pretty much said yes.

I was giving you a chance to expand your thoughts and you did not rise to that. Love to you is just an emotion. How utterly pathetic is that my friend?

Emotions are feelings and feelings are notoriously unreliable, so I want you to think about your idea that Love is a feeling. That means you are only capable of Love when and if you feel like it, when the mood strikes you.

Why should any other human trust you? You may have a bad day and just not be feeling it. No love that day, right?

Why should you feed the homeless, or cloth the poor? What is anyone to you if you don't have lovey warm fuzzy feeling for them because you're not "attracted" to them as a mate. Hum?

You come here thinking you know Love? How many sick people did you visit today? How many dirty smelly unruly people did you visit on the street today to tell them that you love and care for them them and reflect the Love of Christ to them by offering something of yourself? Are you even capable of that with your feelings of love? How exactly do you muster that?

You know why your not a Christian? Because you've nothing to offer with just your feelings of Love, and you are unwilling to live for Love because your waiting on a feeling.

Am I too harsh? Maybe I love you enough to paint an accurate picture, because I don't want you leaving here without seeing the truth about what you have said.

This Christian life is not filled with a bunch of push overs and weak crazy people. You may be responding to some crooked preacher with a whacked out doctrine who says he's a Christian, but the real Christians in this world are much more quiet in their work.

You'll find them in the streets, in the hospitals, in the schools and institutions of this evil world, in every nation; some risking their lives, quietly loving others you will never meet for fear of getting your shoes dirty.

You want to know why their is so much evil in this world? Because there more people in this world willing it to be, than willing to Love it for there not to be.

Love. When you can do the work God has for you selflessly and willingly, then you can talk about Love, and how it really feels.

 

[reba]

Love is an emotion. I never said love wasn't a POWERFUL emotion.
If you think otherwise, and if your only source of proof is the Bible, then by all means, keep it to yourself.

You might want to remember you area guest here. reba

 

[Atothetheist]

You might want to remember you area guest here. reba

Right, got it. Sometimes I get frustrated when people say love is MORE than just an emotion, especially when their only reasoning is the trancendant.

 

[reba]

Wouldn't ya have to admit it is kinda silly to sign on to Bible spouting Christian site then complain because we do just what is expected.

:yes

 

[Danus]

Right, got it. Sometimes I get frustrated when people say love is MORE than just an emotion, especially when their only reasoning is the trancendant.

Don't let your emotions be the best of you. I thought you atheist/non-Christian whatever, where not so emotional.

Why are you not willing to discuss Love as transcending human emotion? Why can't you explore it more?

Just once I would love to engaged an atheist on this forum who is truly willing to have a conversation and not just cut and run, but I've hardly found one. Are you one? Tell me if I'm wasting my time, and I'll move on.

 

[Atothetheist]

Don't let your emotions be the best of you. I thought you atheist/non-Christian whatever, where not so emotional.

Why are you not willing to discuss Love as transcending human emotion? Why can't you explore it more?

Just once I would love to engaged an atheist on this forum who is truly willing to have a conversation and not just cut and run, but I've hardly found one. Are you one? Tell me if I'm wasting my time, and I'll move on.

Because love isn't a trancedent emotion. Though I am interested in your views, if all they are is supported by the bible, then no thanks, I have had my share.edited by staff the logic of Scripture is not a fallacy

Circular reasoning IS a fallacy. " Why do you believe in God? Because the Bible says he is real. why do you believe in the Bible? Because the Bible says it is the Word of God, therefore the Bible is the word of God.

There is no such thing as logic by scriptures. The only way it would be logic is if you assume that God exists, and that it is the christian God.

 

[Danus]

Because love isn't a trancedent emotion. Though I am interested in your views, if all they are is supported by the bible, then no thanks, I have had my share.edited by staff the logic of Scripture is not a fallacy

That makes no sense, and it's cowardice at best. You come to a Christian site to talk and your afraid of the bible? OK. Let me know when your ready for my views because I will be quoting the bible if you can handle it. I'll discuss what Love is and you can say it's not true.

 

[Atothetheist]

That makes no sense, and it's cowardice at best. You come to a Christian site to talk and your afraid of the bible? OK. Let me know when your ready for my views because I will be quoting the bible if you can handle it. I'll discuss what Love is and you can say it's not true.

Wow. Such a strawman. Never even alluded to being afraid of the bible.

The bible only works if the person you are argueing with believes in it.

Bring it: Let's take this to PMs.

 

[AlexBC]

I'd actually like to know what is meant by

"Love is a transcendent emotion".

What definition of "transcendent" is being applied here.

I've heard that time and time again in Church but aside from a little purple prose never had it actually explained.

As far as I know, the biological grounds for love are quite well understood, the evolutionary basis is understood but I have yet to see any tested examples of its "transcendence" whatever that means.

And i'm sorry, but a case could actually be made that love is just as destructive a force as hate. Look what has been done in the name of love.

 

[Atothetheist]

I'd actually like to know what is meant by

"Love is a transcendent emotion".

What definition of "transcendent" is being applied here.

I've heard that time and time again in Church but aside from a little purple prose never had it actually explained.

As far as I know, the biological grounds for love are quite well understood, the evolutionary basis is understood but I have yet to see any tested examples of its "transcendence" whatever that means.

And i'm sorry, but a case could actually be made that love is just as destructive a force as hate. Look what has been done in the name of love.

Ya know what, PM me. I would love to converse with ya on certain points, and try to see what your mindset is. I am awfully curious about you.

 

[evenifigoalone]

Hey, Alex? If you want to talk or whatever I'm willing to do so.
Sorry if this seems...y'know weird to say or anything. I wish you the best, man.

 

[evenifigoalone]

I'm not so sure that love is just an emotion. Love is more about caring about somebody, no matter what. You want what's ultimately best for them, even when you don't feel all warm and fuzzy towards them.
If it's nothing but a simple passing emotion...then love is nothing special, and you can't trust anybody who says they love you because emotions come and go.

Love is an emotion, but it has more than one definition. True love is puting others ahead of yourself.


And, if you think about it, this is what God has done. Not just through Jesus' sacrifice, but through His other actions. I believe that whatever God has done, it's ultimately for the best interest of humanity. He did this, knowing that people would criticize His actions. Knowing that people would use it against Him. He cares more about our ultimate good than what people think of Him.

And I realize you weren't talking to me, but about what definition of transcendent...I'd say all of them.
Transcendent:
1. surpassing usual limits
2. beyond the range of usual perception
3. free from constraints of the material world


Not trying to put you on the spot or anything like that...just my thoughts. Please don't think we're here to ostracize you or anything. We want to help you.

 

[AlexBC]

I'm not so sure that love is just an emotion. Love is more about caring about somebody, no matter what. You want what's ultimately best for them, even when you don't feel all warm and fuzzy towards them.
If it's nothing but a simple passing emotion...then love is nothing special, and you can't trust anybody who says they love you because emotions come and go.

Love is an emotion, but it has more than one definition. True love is puting others ahead of yourself.


And, if you think about it, this is what God has done. Not just through Jesus' sacrifice, but through His other actions. I believe that whatever God has done, it's ultimately for the best interest of humanity. He did this, knowing that people would criticize His actions. Knowing that people would use it against Him. He cares more about our ultimate good than what people think of Him.

And I realize you weren't talking to me, but about what definition of transcendent...I'd say all of them.
Transcendent:
1. surpassing usual limits
2. beyond the range of usual perception
3. free from constraints of the material world


Not trying to put you on the spot or anything like that...just my thoughts. Please don't think we're here to ostracize you or anything. We want to help you.

Well, love CAN come and go. We DO lose trust in people and hope that the next love of our lives is the one. It still might not be. That's just a reality we have to deal with.

And don't we care about people because of an emotion that that person has produced within us? Your definition sounds a little like love presents us with a lack of free will. There are many aspects to a person that we love. We might hate one but love another.

I think the word emotion is a little too...emotional? Maybe something like brain-state would be better. I don't like that word but it might help to dismiss some of the casualness some people feel when they link love and emotion.

 

[evenifigoalone]

Love isn't trust so much as it is caring. You can love someone without really trusting them. (Although a good relationship is built on trust, yes. But you can love someone without having a good relationship with them.)
It's a complex thing, I suppose. There are different reasons people act the way they do. Sometimes they let bitterness and hurt turn them away. We're only human and not capable of perfect love.
So I suppose you do have something of a point there.

The Bible says in many places that God is loving. It also says His anger doesn't last long (like a parent correcting a child is the analogy I like to make on this) and He is in favor of life and mercy (Psalm 30:5, Psalm 100:5).