A Person is Justified by Works and not by Faith Alone

[FreeGrace]

Have a look at verses 41-43 of the scripture I posted, just after the parable. Jesus gives some explanation about the lesson of the parable. He asks the people what God will do to the kind of "wicked husbandmen" he described in the story. They answered that God will destroy them, take the vinyard away from them and give it to others who are willing to bring forth the fruits of it.

He was referring to the false teachers among the Jewish religious leaders and Pharisees.

In verse 42 he responds to this answer by talking about his teachings, the "cornerstone". This is the same stone referenced in the parable about building on the rock in Mt 7:24-27. Jesus related this rock to his teachings by comparing it to the wise man who heard his teachings and obeyed. Through his obedience (to the teachings he heard) he built his house on a rock.

He says the "builders" would reject this stone.

And they did.

That's pretty much what happens when the commands of Jesus come up and people argue that we are not saved by works. The "we're not saved by works" doctrine amounts to nothing more than a convenient way of disregarding Jesus' teachings.

I'm not looking for any "convenient" teaching. I'm looking for truth. Where, specifically, did Jesus say that one is saved by their works? I'd love to see any.

Anytime a difficult teaching comes up it's "we're not saved by works" and the teaching can then be legitimately ignored with a soothed conscience.

That teaching can be legitimately ignored because it is not found in Scripture. It is believers, who are already saved, who are commanded to obedient service.

Both Rom 4:4,5 and Eph 2:8,9 refute the idea that one is saved by works.

In verse 43 Jesus follows on from this rejection of the stone of his teachings by illustrating a consequence. The kingdom will be taken away from those who reject his teachings and given to others who bring forth the fruit (i.e. act on his teachings).

Those religious Jewish leaders did lose out on the kingdom.

It will be taken away from them because they were unfruitful.

Uh, they were unbelievers. Consider John 10:36-39
36do you say of Him, whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world, ‘You are blaspheming,’ because I said, ‘I am the Son of God’? 37“If I do not do the works of My Father, do not believe Me; 38but if I do them, though you do not believe Me, believe the works, so that you may know and understand that the Father is in Me, and I in the Father.” 39Therefore they were seeking again to seize Him, and He eluded their grasp.

His emphasis was only on faith for eternal life (salvation). Jn 3:15,16, 36, 5:24, 6:40, 47, 11:25-27, 20:31.

 

[JLB]

It seems you don't believe that God's promises are very clearly communicated. I believe what Scripture says.

Eternal life is a gift. Rom 6:23
Justification is a gift. Rom 5:16
Salvation is a gift. Eph 2:8
God's gifts are irrevocable. Rom 11:29

What isn't so clear about these verses?

Justification is predicated on obedience.

24You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only. James 2:24

Righteousness is also predicated on obedience -

And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, "Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness." And he was called the friend of God. You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.
James 2:23-24

Clearly and plainly we are taught that believing here means obeying... As it is written

You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.

Here is what Romans 5 says -
For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so also by one Man's obedience many will be made righteous. Romans 5:19

Your one scripture doctrine is a result of not rightly dividing the word of truth.

OSAS is not a biblical doctrine as you have never post one single scripture that states once your saved your always saved.

All you have done is take Romans 11:29 that says NOTHING WHAT SO EVER about being saved or eternal life and added it to another scripture that does.

JLB

 

[FreeGrace]

Justification is predicated on obedience.

There are many verses that clearly say that justification is based on faith.
Acts 13:39 Through Him everyone who believes is justified from everything you could not be justified from by the law of Moses.
Rom 3:22 This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference.
Rom 3:24 being justified as a gift by His grace through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus;
Rom 3:28, 30
28 For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law. 30 since indeed God who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith is one.
Rom 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness,
Rom 5:1 Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ,
Gal 2:16 nevertheless knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the Law but through faith in Christ Jesus, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, so that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the Law; since by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified.
Gal 3:8 The Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand to Abraham, saying, "ALL THE NATIONS WILL BE BLESSED IN YOU."
Gal 3:24 Therefore the Law has become our tutor to lead us to Christ, so that we may be justified by faith.

24You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only. James 2:24

I've already provided many verses that support the concept that believers are justified in the eyes of others when we demonstration our faith before them.

If your view were correct, then james 2:24 contradicts all the verses I just quoted.

Righteousness is also predicated on obedience -

And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, "Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness." And he was called the friend of God. You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.
James 2:23-24

Except the verse you quote here says righteousness is predicated on believing. In addition, Rom 5:16 says taht righteousness is a gift, so it CANNOT be predicated on obedience.

Here is what Romans 5 says -

For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so also by one Man's obedience many will be made righteous. Romans 5:19

Uh, the "one Man's obedience" here refers to Jesus Christ, who went to the cross in obedience to the Father's will.

I believe that you are misunderstanding large portions of Scripture.

Your one scripture doctrine is a result of not rightly dividing the word of truth.

OSAS is not a biblical doctrine as you have never post one single scripture that states once your saved your always saved.

All you have done is take Romans 11:29 that says NOTHING WHAT SO EVER about being saved or eternal life and added it to another scripture that does.

JLB

I've given you many verses. Your charge is false.

And since the gift of God is eternal life per Rom 6:23 and God's gifts are irrevocable per Rom 11:29, how come you refuse to accept that eternal life is irrevocable? That isn't reasonable.

 

[Cturtle]

This seems to be a really provocative thread title, but it really is just a quotation from Scripture.

You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone. James 2:24 (ESV)

What is your take on this text? What does it mean?

I'm sure this has already been said, but to me it says that a person proves that their faith is real, by what they do. And we show the Father that we really trust Him by being obedient to His commandments. I like the way the nlt writes it...."so you see, we are shown to be right with God by what we do"

 

[john darling]

I'm sure this has already been said, but to me it says that a person proves that their faith is real, by what they do. And we show the Father that we really trust Him by being obedient to His commandments. I like the way the nlt writes it...."so you see, we are shown to be right with God by what we do"

Fantastic post.

 

[FreeGrace]

I'm sure this has already been said, but to me it says that a person proves that their faith is real, by what they do. And we show the Father that we really trust Him by being obedient to His commandments. I like the way the nlt writes it...."so you see, we are shown to be right with God by what we do"

I'd say it demonstrates that their faith is real. One's actions don't really prove that one is saved. There are many very moral and ethical unbelievers, including even atheists. I think the point of James 2 is that believers are expected to demonstrate their faith to others, not just claim they have faith.

 

[JLB]

I'm sure this has already been said, but to me it says that a person proves that their faith is real, by what they do. And we show the Father that we really trust Him by being obedient to His commandments. I like the way the nlt writes it...."so you see, we are shown to be right with God by what we do"

James agrees with your perspective, brother.

You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only. James 2:24

Abraham was justified, [declared to be right with God], because he obeyed God's command to offer Isaac on the altar.

Works = the effort obedience requires.

JLB

 

[JLB]

One's actions don't really prove that one is saved.

If ones actions are the act of obeying God's command, then ones actions are the very thing that justifies him in the sight of God.

You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only. James 2:24

 

[JLB]

There are many very moral and ethical unbelievers, including even atheists. I think the point of James 2 is that believers are expected to demonstrate their faith to others, not just claim they have faith.

Moral or ethical actions, which is self righteousness, can not save.

Man's obedience to the Gospel message that is inspired by God through His sent ones is the way of salvation through Jesus Christ.


JLB

 

[gr8grace3]

I'd say it demonstrates that their faith is real. One's actions don't really prove that one is saved. There are many very moral and ethical unbelievers, including even atheists. I think the point of James 2 is that believers are expected to demonstrate their faith to others, not just claim they have faith.

How does one demonstrate their faith to others? Most believers will answer with,feeding the poor,mission work,cleaning the church,doing potlucks,being nice,giving,loving one another. But unbelievers can do all those things.

And what all those "works" can't do for the believer and unbeliever is reconcile the "seeming" contradiction of Rom 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness(positional truth)
AND
James 2:24~~24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.(Experiential/ongoing sanctification in this life)
2 "works" that we often overlook is being filled with the Spirit and rightly dividing His word. Only believers can do these works, unbelievers can not do these works. We have a tendency to focus on the overt works that we do as Christians and overlook the work of providing right answers(works) through the doctrine we should know by studying His word.

Paul~~Position in Christ

James~~Position in this physical life after salvation. We can't just sit on our butts and say "let go and let God" to everyone who wants answers. We do not demonstrate our faith by doing a mission trip,going to church and all the other overt things we do. We demonstrate our faith by our motivation/reason behind those actions and by providing doctrinal answers to those who are looking for truth.

I agree with you, James is talking about demonstrating our justification to others. We don't prove anything to God.

 

[john darling]

I don't think any of us understands God well enough to tell him what he can and cannot do with his grace. He can give his eternal life to anyone he wants or withhold it from anyone he wants and no amount of arguing on our part will change that.

So, when it comes to who God will give his salvation to, it's probably worth looking at the teachings of Jesus; what did he say about the kind of people God is looking for? At times Jesus seemed to be extremely specific in what it takes to be saved and other other times he seemed to be quite loose.

I believe Jesus does this because he is accounting for sincerity. When it comes to judging the heart, man invariably gets it wrong. Some of us have pretty good discernment, but no matter how good it is, only God can see the whole picture and only God can look deep within the heart, both at the same time.

The beautiful thing about Christianity is that it means no one group as a monopoly on love and truth; God is able to speak to people on an individual level and work with them where they are at. Some people have more sincerity than others and so they progress more quickly or accept truth more easily, while others have less sincerity. We all have our faults and problems. We all have our stubbornness and unwillingness to hear more truth from God.

Remember that we will be judged with the same measure that we judge others. If you are saying, "no, that person isn't saved because they made a mistake with the formula somewhere along the way" then you will be judged in the same way. If you can say you have no mistakes whatsoever in the formula you've followed, then you'll probably be ok, but if you have made mistakes then...

 

[twinc]

imho the road to hell is paved with hellish good works according to demons and humans and not according to the works of God as at Jn..6:29 and Jn.20:31 - twinc

 

[john darling]

hellish good works

Scripture please

 

[twinc]

(Edited, ToS 2.4, rudeness. Obadiah.)

 

[john darling]

(Post removed, response to deleted post.)

 

[gr8grace3]

I don't think any of us understands God well enough to tell him what he can and cannot do with his grace. He can give his eternal life to anyone he wants or withhold it from anyone he wants and no amount of arguing on our part will change that.

However, He has told us what He will do with His Grace. Eph 2:8~~New American Standard Bible
For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;

And He has shown who He will give eternal life to and who will not have it.

John 3:36~~New American Standard Bible
"He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him."

So, when it comes to who God will give his salvation to, it's probably worth looking at the teachings of Jesus; what did he say about the kind of people God is looking for? At times Jesus seemed to be extremely specific in what it takes to be saved and other other times he seemed to be quite loose.

Her are some extremely specific verses on how to receive salvation from Jesus Christ:
“Whosoever believes in me will not perish, but have everlasting life.” Jn 3:15

“For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believes in him will not perish, but have everlasting life.” Jn 3:16

“He that believes on him is not condemned, but he that believes not is condemned already, because he has notbelieved in the name of the only begotten Son of God.” Jn 3:18

“He that believes the Son has everlasting life, and he that believes not the Son, shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.” Jn 3:36

“And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one that which sees the Son, and believes on him, will have everlasting life, and I will raise him up on the last day.”Jn 6:40

“Truly I say unto you, he that believes on me, has everlasting life.” Jn 6:47

.

I believe Jesus does this because he is accounting for sincerity. When it comes to judging the heart, man invariably gets it wrong. Some of us have pretty good discernment, but no matter how good it is, only God can see the whole picture and only God can look deep within the heart, both at the same time.

So even if we are sincerely wrong, our sincerity has "value?"

The beautiful thing about Christianity is that it means no one group as a monopoly on love and truth; God is able to speak to people on an individual level and work with them where they are at. Some people have more sincerity than others and so they progress more quickly or accept truth more easily, while others have less sincerity. We all have our faults and problems. We all have our stubbornness and unwillingness to hear more truth from God.

Again, there is no intrinsic value in sincerity. There are lots of people who are sincerely wrong,sincerely stubborn,sincerely unwilling.
Christianity is one group and we have a monopoly of love and truth.John 14:6~~New American Standard Bible
Jesus said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me.

Remember that we will be judged with the same measure that we judge others. If you are saying, "no, that person isn't saved because they made a mistake with the formula somewhere along the way" then you will be judged in the same way. If you can say you have no mistakes whatsoever in the formula you've followed, then you'll probably be ok, but if you have made mistakes then...

Yes believers will be judged and will be held accountable. 1 Cor 3:15~~New American Standard Bible
If any man's work is burned up, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.

Were do you find "You will probably be ok" in any of Jesus Christs words? This is Jesus Christs formula plain and simple:
“Whosoever believes in me will not perish, but have everlasting life.” Jn 3:15

“For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believes in him will not perish, but have everlasting life.” Jn 3:16

“He that believes on him is not condemned, but he that believes not is condemned already, because he has notbelieved in the name of the only begotten Son of God.” Jn 3:18

“He that believes the Son has everlasting life, and he that believes not the Son, shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.” Jn 3:36

“And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one that which sees the Son, and believes on him, will have everlasting life, and I will raise him up on the last day.”Jn 6:40


Are you mistake free in your own formula?

 

[john darling]

Are you mistake free in your own formula?

No, I'm not. But then again, are any of us? That's the point. Mistakes in the formula do not prevent people from access to God's grace.

There are lots of people who are sincerely wrong,sincerely stubborn,sincerely unwilling.

Can you give some examples of people being sincerely wrong, sincerely stubborn, and sincerely unwilling?

And He has shown who He will give eternal life to and who will not have it.

John 3:36~~New American Standard Bible
"He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him."

Thanks for posting this verse, because it shows a fairly clear connection between belief and obedience. In other words, we only know that a person believes because they show their belief. A simple "belief in God" (i.e. that he exists) isn't good enough. We need the kind of faith which produces obedience. And, since God doesn't command us to do bad works, then the kind of obedience we need is in the area of good works.

The good works do not save us, but without the good works, why would God want to save us? God is a good God and his Kingdom is a good kingdom. It makes sense for his servants to be interested in doing good. Not only interested in doing good, but making it a priority in their lives to do the good that God wants them to do. If people refuse to do good, then there is no reason for them to be a part of a Kingdom which is all about being good.

It's like food. Food does not give us life. God gives us life. And yet, we are designed to survive through eating food. The "salvation by works" doctrine is a bit like a person who refuses to eat food because they think it will be like admitting that food gives life rather than God.

The ironic thing about that comparison, though, is that when God does actually say, "don't allow worry about food stop you from working for love" people invariably say, "I need food to live therefore I must work for food rather than love".

 

[gr8grace3]

Scripture please

Rev 20:12~~New American Standard Bible
And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and books were opened; and another book was opened, which is the book of life; and the dead were judged from the things which were written in the books, according to their deeds.

Since Christ paid for the sins of the WHOLE world. They are judged by their works. I wouldn't call them hellish good works, but really, one could.

All sin is evil but not all evil is sin. The unbeliever goes to the Lake of Fire according to His works. Notice that "books" were opened and they were judged by what was written in those books. All human good is evil in Gods eyes and their human good is judged as dung compared to the work of Jesus Christ on the Cross.

Even as a believer this is true......If I feed the poor with the motivation for approbation from men, it is evil in Gods eyes and counts for nothing. Even though it looks good to all of us the unbeliever will be judged by these deeds and the believer will lose rewards,blessings or be disciplined for this human good/evil.

 

[Deborah13]

I'd say it demonstrates that their faith is real. One's actions don't really prove that one is saved. There are many very moral and ethical unbelievers, including even atheists. I think the point of James 2 is that believers are expected to demonstrate their faith to others, not just claim they have faith.

:amen

The verses are stated clearly that it is about 'showing' and what showing looks like.
If one acts with favoritism to the wealthy over the poor then he is not showing that he believes the royal law, even though in other ways he may follow the commandment perfectly, in that way, he has missed the mark.

And if you really believe your life should be a witness to that faith that you say that you have.

 

[FreeGrace]

Cturtle said: ↑
I'm sure this has already been said, but to me it says that a person proves that their faith is real, by what they do.

James agrees with your perspective, brother.

No, James would no agree with him. His point was that a person demonstrates, not proves, their faith by what they do.

Works = the effort obedience requires. JLB

What verse teaches this idea?