Hey Free
I wasn't trying to point out a contradiction but the more I think about it, the more I see one in your own position and understanding of tongues. In the above quote, you agreed that the "the Body doesn't understand," yet you have made the point that tonuges are pointless for today since we can go learn a new language which will enable our hearers to understand. The hearers in Jerusalem sure understood what was being said.
Well, I never made that point, but it's a valid one all the same. The point is that you cannot overcome the language barrior, and your churches admit it by their actions, so until you can actually do it, it's pointless to discuss this part. My point was to focus on the "personal tongues that is being taught today, and it's inability to go beyond, in some special way, what every saved person can do. I'll try to explain it better.
At that time the sign was still being given, or at least it was still fresh in their minds. We have those who would recieve the sign (unbelieving Jews) and the rest are not edified. Paul said to let all things be done for edification within the church. God is not the author of confusion. If the sign was given without these secondary uses then God could not say that He is not the author of confusion, because believers would not know what was being said. Most everything you read about in 1 corinthians 12-14 is God staying true to His Word in that while the sign was being given there would be no one standing around wondering what was happening or what was being said. None of the secondary uses gives us benefit above and beyond what every believer can accomplish today without the gift of tongues. These secondary things were necessary at that time so there was no confusion within the body. The sign is given to unbelieving Jews, always, believers took that sign and interpreted it to edify the believers, because believers couldn't understand. Everyone is edified. Why did they understand a Pentecost? Because God was undoing (to a degree) what He had done in Genesis. God's plan now included all nations.
Acts 1:8 But you shall receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be witnesses to Me in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth."
So not only was it a sign to Jews about their coming judgement, but also part of that Judgement was that the Gentiles were now part of God's plan. The barriors were being lifted so the gospel could be preached to the world. This is what made Pentecost a miracle, because this could in no way happen unless God had lifted the roadblock that He, Himself put up.
What were tongues for? A sign. Paul states that very clearly in 14:20-22. The sign is no longer needed. If you were to ask God Himself, what were tongues for and who were they for, you wouldn't get a more clear answer than 1 Cor. 14:20-22.
What were the Corinthians doing?
They were the church that didn't understand true spirituality, who allowed all their Pagan religious practices to creep into the church (12:2). Consider the sin that was taking place at the Corinthian church and ask yourself if the Holy Spirit would move in this place and through these people. They were worldly, divisive, opinionated, cliquish, carnal, fleshly, envious, strife-ridden, argumentative, puffed up, self- glorying, smug, immoral, compromising with sin, defrauding each other, fornicating, depriving in marriage, offending weaker Christians, lusting after evil things, idolatrous, fellowshiping with demons, insubordinate, gluttonous, drunken, selfish toward the poor, and desecrating the Lord's Table.
So what were they doing, the same thing Christians are doing today.
This is a cut and paste.
A quick look a pagan tongues of that time...
"a. The Ecstasy of the Greco-Roman World
At the time of the Corinthian church, the Greco-Roman world had a multitude of gods. In their worship of these gods, it was very common for a person to go into ecstasy, which literally means "to go out of oneself." They would go into an unconscious state where all kinds of psychic phenomena would occur. They believed that when they were in an ecstatic trance, they actually left their body, ascended into space, connected up to whatever deity they were worshiping, and would begin to commune with that deity. Once they began to commune with that deity, they would begin to speak the language of the gods. This was a very common practice in their culture. In fact, the term used in 1 Corinthians to refer to speaking in tongues (glossais lalein) was not invented by Bible writers. It was a term used commonly in the Greco-Roman culture to speak of the pagan language of the gods which occurred while the speaker was in an ecstatic trance. By the way, this language of the gods was always gibberish.
b. The Eros of the Greek World
The Greeks had a word for this ecstatic religious experience. It was the word eros. Sometimes translated as sensual love, the word eros had a broader meaning. It meant "the desire for the sensual," or "the desire for the erotic," or "the desire for ecstasy," or "the desire for the ultimate experience or feeling." Their religion, then, was an erotic, sensual, ecstatic religion-- designed to be felt. In fact, when people went to their various temples to worship, they would actually enter into orgies with the temple priestesses. So the erotic, sexual, sensual, ecstatic religion was all rolled into one big ball along with the gibberish of divine utterances. And these mystery religions, which had been spawned in Babylon, had found their way into the Corinthian society...and the church.
THE INFILTRATION OF CORINTH INTO THE CHURCH
The Corinthian church had allowed the entire world system in which they existed to infiltrate their assembly. For example, they were emphasizing human philosophies (chapters 1-4), they had a hero worship cult (chapter 3), they were involved in terrible, gross, sexual immorality (chapters 5-6), they were suing each other in court (chapter 6), they had misevaluated their home and marriage relationships (chapter 7), they were confused about pagan feasts, idolatry, and things offered to idols (chapters 8-10), they had relinquished the proper place of women in the church (chapter 11), they had misunderstood the whole dimension of spiritual gifts (chapter 12), and they had lost hold of the one great thing--love (chapter 13).
You see, they had let the satanic system that existed in their society infiltrate the church. And with it came the pagan religious practices--with all of the ecstasies, eroticisms, and sensualities. The Corinthians accepted it all, creating a confused amalgamation of truth and error." Macarthur
My initial point with the above quote was to point out not a contradiction, but a difference between the tongues of Acts 2 and 1 Cor. 14. In Acts 2, the speakers didn't understand what they were saying, but the listeners did. In 1 Cor. 14, it is implied that neither the hearer nor the speaker understood what was being said. This is entirely consistent with tongues as practiced today.
There are a few reasons for this. In first Cor. 12-14 we are in, and amongst believers within the Body who couldn't understand, this is why God Gave the gift of interpretation, it's for believers to understand when the sign was given to unbelieving Jews when it was being practiced with and amongst believers. The sign was still being given because the judgement had not fallen, this is whay Paul says in the end to not forbid tongues, because the purpose of tongues ( a sign to unbelieving Israel) was still in use at that time.
I'm sure you would agree that Acts is different. The Body was just first being formed with these same people. These were unbelieving Jews who crucified the Son of God. (see above)
I strongly disagree. This is nowhere said or implied in anything Paul states. He even says in 1 Cor. 14:18, "I thank God, I speak in tongues more than you all;" Paul praises the gift of tongues. The Church of Corinth was abusing the gift, placing such a high importance on it that it disrupted the services and did not edify the Church.
Well, he understood that the true gift had it's place, I don't think he idolized it as people today do.
"1 Pursue love, yet desire earnestly spiritual gifts, but especially that you may prophesy. 2 For one who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God; for no one understands, but in his spirit he speaks mysteries. 3 But one who prophesies speaks to men for edification and exhortation and consolation. 4 One who speaks in a tongue edifies himself; but one who prophesies edifies the church. 5 Now I wish that you all spoke in tongues, but even more that you would prophesy; and greater is one who prophesies than one who speaks in tongues, unless he interprets, so that the church may receive edifying."
"1 Pursue love, yet desire earnestly spiritual gifts, but especially that you may prophesy.
Why prophecy, because prophecy was for believers. Persue love, which is not self seeking. Without it you, not the Holy Spirit are a clanging cymbol. This is not a manifistation of the Holy Spirit that produces a clanging cymbol.
2 For one who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God; for no one understands, but in his spirit he speaks mysteries.
This is what not to do (see verse 1). "his spirit" is not the Holy Spirit. Mysteries are not the mysteries not yet revealed that scripture talks about. I have my doubts about the translation "God". A similar translation is to "an unknown god" in Acts, also in verse 9 Paul calls it speaking into the air. Why isn't it speaking to God there also?
3 But one who prophesies speaks to men for edification and exhortation and consolation.
This is what to do. (see verse one).
4 One who speaks in a tongue edifies himself; but one who prophesies edifies the church.
This is what not to do, then what to do.
5 Now I wish that you all spoke in tongues, but even more that you would prophesy; and greater is one who prophesies than one who speaks in tongues, unless he interprets, so that the church may receive edifying."
"I wish you all spoke in tongues"
First, Paul wishes this for the sake of emphasis, secondly, Paul would not presume to improve on the Holy Spirit's wisdom. Third, it would be impossible and contrary to God's sovereign plan for everyone to have the gift of tongues, if this is what you were implying.
12:10 ....................to another ( not all ) different kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues. 11 But one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one individually as He wills.
19 And if they were all one member, where would the body be?
30................Do all speak with tongues?.....................( the implied answer is no )
"I wish" I'll give you a perfect example of what Paul means here.
7:7 For I wish that all men were even as I myself ( unmarried ). But each one has his own gift from God, one in this manner and another in that.
Paul wishes that everyone could devote all their time and energy towards serving God in singleness but quickly establishes the fact that God's perfect will has other plans. He stated that "he wished all" for the sake of emphasis.
"18 I thank my God I speak with tongues more than you all;"
Paul did not condem the true gift of languages, even though he was rebuking the Corinthians for their use of Pagan mystery religion gibberish. He was also establishing the fact that if anyone would know what the true gift was, it would be him. Who "spoke tongues more than them all", Mosly if not all of their tongues were not the true.
The gift of tongues was not for all saints.
Hence, it is not necessary for salvation.
Hence, it is not necessary for spiritual growth, as it is not for all saints.
The clearest scripture regarding tongues is this.
20 Brethren, do not be children in understanding; however, in malice be babes, but in understanding be mature.
21In the law it is written:
"With men of other tongues and other lips
I will speak to this people;
And yet, for all that, they will not hear Me,"
says the Lord.
22 Therefore tongues are for a sign
not to those who believe but to unbelievers;
but prophesying is not for unbelievers but for those who believe.
Prophecy is for believers, this is why Paul said..4 He who speaks in a tongue edifies himself, but he who prophesies edifies the church.
Self edification is not the goal, God did not gift us so we could hoard our gifts. All false doctrine adapts and changes with the times. This is what happend to tongues. Sinse they could not replicate the true, they redefined it.
I'm out of time today.
God bless
