A Scenario

[Eugene]

Yes I have, these ppl that came out of the tribulation are those who got left behind but Later accepted christ and refused to take the mark.

What if they were saved prior to the first rapture, but not looking for His appearing? To me, it is the saved that are told to watch. Thanks.

 

[Blain]

What if they were saved prior to the first rapture, but not looking for His appearing? Thanks.

jesus never said not looking for his appearing would keep them from being taken but there is a crown for watching for his appearing if I remember correctly

 

[Eugene]

jesus never said not looking for his appearing would keep them from being taken but there is a crown for watching for his appearing if I remember correctly

There are but two of the seven portions of the church mentioned in Revelation Chapters Two and Three that are said to have crowns; Smyrna in Rev 2:10,and Philadelphia in Rev 3:10. Notice Rev 4:4 where the elders have crowns of gold.

 

[Blain]

There are but two of the seven portions of the church mentioned in Revelation Chapters Two and Three that are said to have crowns; Smyrna in Rev 2:10,and Philadelphia in Rev 3:10. Notice Rev 4:4 where the elders have crowns of gold.

2 timothy 4:8- Finally there is laid up for me the crown of righteousness which the Lord the righteous judge will give to me on that day and not to me only but all who loved his appearing

 

[Deborah13]

I am not emotional just because I believe in pre-trib.

lol.

I knew you were one of Those guys, a pre-tribber. :wink

Definitely not one of These guys though. :angry

 

[Gary]

anyways the rapture is an important even jesus said to always be watching for we know not the day nor hour-to me that sounds very much like it could happen any day at any second. if the mid trib or post trib was correct why are we to always be watching and waiting?

When Jesus says "watch", He's referring to the signs leading up to His coming. He's not telling us to watch for the rapture.

Matthew 24
3 Now as He sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, “Tell us, when will these things be? And what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?”



The second coming can't happen any day at any second because there is still prophecy that needs to be fulfilled.
.

 

[Blain]

When Jesus says "watch", He's referring to the signs leading up to His coming. He's not telling us to watch for the rapture.

Matthew 24
3 Now as He sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, “Tell us, when will these things be? And what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?”



The second coming can't happen any day at any second because there is still prophecy that needs to be fulfilled.
.

i dont think the rapture is his second coming as we meet him in the air he does not come to earth

 

[Gary]

i dont think the rapture is his second coming as we meet him in the air he does not come to earth

You're right, the rapture isn't the second coming. It is a part of it. The resurrection of the dead in Christ, the catching up of the living and the Second Coming of Christ all happen within a split second of one another.
.

 

[agua.]

I think there are more pre-tribs on this board than any other belief. They just don't all post in these threads.

Or maybe they're gawn

 

[Sinthesis]

So what is the point of watching if we're just going to be caught up? Is the rapture something you miss if you're not watching? How could any Christian ever sleep?

 

[Gary]

So what is the point of watching if we're just going to be caught up? Is the rapture something you miss if you're not watching? How could any Christian ever sleep?

When Jesus says "watch", He's referring to the signs leading up to His coming. He's not telling us to watch for the rapture.

Matthew 24
3 Now as He sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, “Tell us, when will these things be? And what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?”


The second coming can't happen any day at any second because there is still prophecy that needs to be fulfilled.
.

 

[Sinthesis]

If the second coming can't happen any day at any second because there is still prophecy that needs to be fulfilled, then has every Christian for the past two thousand years been watching in vain?

 

[Jack Spratt]

Why is it important?
.

I will back my brother here as I am a strong Pre-trib believer.

To answer your question of Why it is so important... Well if you are a mid trib believer, you know the tribulation is 7 years, you know that the antichrist will break the pact at the 3.5 year mark... so you would have three years after the announcing of the antichrist to get ready.
IF you are a post trib believer then you would have 7 years to get ready.

I believe that we get pounced on by people because of our pre trib belief is that there is already deception going on here. Christ said He will come at a time people don't expect it.

Many are not expecting the rapture to occur PRE TRIB.

Just think though..... millions of Christians. Living in the tribulation. In a world where you cannot buy or sell without the mark of the beast. Taking the mark means damnation without any second chance. You take the mark...your done. No looking back. Yet these millions will not take the mark and will have to be imprisioned or beheaded or killed or whatever... That's a lot more killing than even the Holocaust.

 

[Gary]

If the second coming can't happen any day at any second because there is still prophecy that needs to be fulfilled, then has every Christian for the past two thousand years been watching in vain?

No.
.

 

[jasonc]

Brother Jason, if I’m understanding your question correctly, the Torah to the church is presented as examples (1 Cor 10:11). A Christian is a believer in Christ regardless of Jewish heritage and learning. The 144,000 discussed were sealed in Revelation Chapter Seven by the Holy Spirit; will the all Israel experience this? The 144,000 as well as the other elect of the church are one in the body of Christ, but all do not have the same assembling with Him in glory if that makes sense to you.

What happens to all Israel saved that enter the millennium, or endured unto the end as it were? Do they not become witnesses to the nations? I don’t really know but I read of a nation born at once in Isa 66:8.

Here is an excerpt from the study of Revelation I transcribed from CD’s given by my friend Gene Hawkins. I also don’t know if this addresses your question.

Well, he that "Keepeth my works unto the end," those that go out into the tribulation period are going to be hard pressed to do that. You know, they are going to be tempted to take the mark of the beast, and yet they absolutely cannot and will not even at the expense of their own life. That is overcoming, and so He says "He that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations." Now I do believe that in light of these words that there are some who are going to go all the way through the tribulation period and what I mean by that is this: we know that the Church is the heavenly body, so this really extends beyond the Church Age. The one hundred and forty-four thousand are the last rank of the Church to go up to heaven, but there is still the Church, or God's kingdom as we would say and I prefer to call as God's kingdom on the earth because there will still be Gentile nations that Israel is going to be ministering to during the millennial period. Where do they come from? Well I believe they have come out of many of these nations that they are known by their Catholicism, and yet they have known Christ as Savior. They have come all the way through the tribulation period and will in a measure reign over these nations who will be subordinate to the one hundred and forty-four thousand but they will in some degree have a place of reigning and ruling with Christ. That Catholic system is going to be judged in Revelation Chapters Seventeen and Eighteen, but again that's just the system and not the people involved with her. They're exhorted to come out of her, and so thus there is a certain reward for those who go on through that complete tribulation period.

it doesn't, why? because your doctrine denies me what im entitiled. im not a gentile, but then again tog could be counted amongst isreal and isreal isn't a location its people. all lineages were reconciled orally for the most part. does blood line matter to god? no, not really. a Hebrew was by faith, the count did included many a goyim. they joined unto isreal and horeb, and well these tribes are goyim mixed. mannaseh, Ephraim, some of Judah, some of levy. and likely as well all of the tribes as that mixed multitude had joined themselves as isreal left Egypt. they became Hebrews when they agreed to the torah.

isreal is like the church, a mix of gentiles and Hebrews. the Hebrews were the majority in the past, now they will be the minority. you also implied a work based system. the torah was never that. it had elements of faith. the rcc isn't mentioned in the bible per those chapters, that is isreal. did isreal kill the apostles? yup, and did romans then go along too? yup! isreal also is where the lord was crucified not rome.

 

[Jack Spratt]

If the second coming can't happen any day at any second because there is still prophecy that needs to be fulfilled, then has every Christian for the past two thousand years been watching in vain?

Watching means to be ready being prepared... I'm going to throw this ball at you... watch out...hope this helps.

 

[Eugene]

So what is the point of watching if we're just going to be caught up? Is the rapture something you miss if you're not watching? How could any Christian ever sleep?

Instead of being caught up and being with Jesus before the tribulation such as those of Rev 5:9-10, you can suffer going through part of the first 3 1/2 years temptation to come upon all the world and be seen before the throne in heaven as them of Rev 7:9 & Rev 7;14.

Watching is more than just looking, but is patiently keeping the word of God as we read of in Rev 3:10. Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.
Rev 3:11 Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown. Have you got a crown?

Purpose?
Rev 5:10 And hast made us (The 24 elder & 4 beasts) unto our God kings and priests:
Versus
Rev 7:15 Therefore are they (The great multitude) before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple:

Rom 8:17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; IF so be that we suffer (endure) with him, that we may be also glorified together.

2 Tim 2:12 IF we suffer (endure), we shall also reign with him:

What is the purpose of watching? If there is no purpose we might just as well go back to the world, the trials of 1 Pet 1:7 that are more precious than gold to us may be of no consequence, and the judgment of the churches of no value since we all are to receive the same reward, and have to go through the tribulation anyway. Poor old John must have been just dreaming as he saw different cohorts of the faithful round about the throne (Rev 4:2). in the midst of the throne (Rev 4:6), before the throne (Rev 7:9). and others standing with Jesus in the heavenly Jerusalem (Rev 14:1).

Rewards? Some have crowns (Rev 2:10 and Rev 3:10), others receive palms (Rev 7:9), possibly a white stone (Rev 2:17). Do they all arrive at the same time? Of course not. There is great gain to be had from a sanctified walk with Christ.
Now there is one portion of the church that will partake of those things to come upon the world and that is those of Thyatira according to Rev 2:21 And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not. Rev 2:22 Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds.

Blessings Brother in Jesus' name.

 

[jasonc]

revalation 2 isn't in the future. its addressed to the people that were alive and read it. if not where is the synagogue of satan and the jews whom claim they are but aren't. oh that would be isreal

 

[Gary]

Why is it important?

I will back my brother here as I am a strong Pre-trib believer.

To answer your question of Why it is so important... Well if you are a mid trib believer, you know the tribulation is 7 years, you know that the antichrist will break the pact at the 3.5 year mark... so you would have three years after the announcing of the antichrist to get ready.
IF you are a post trib believer then you would have 7 years to get ready.

What makes this important?

Just curious.

I believe that we get pounced on by people because of our pre trib belief is that there is already deception going on here.

I don't "pounce" on someone simply because their convictions differ from mine. I may have in the past, but I grew up. I've actually learned a thing or two listening to other people. Some of them women.

Christ said He will come at a time people don't expect it.

Many are not expecting the rapture to occur PRE TRIB.

Christ isn't going to be here for the tribulation.

Just think though..... millions of Christians. Living in the tribulation. In a world where you cannot buy or sell without the mark of the beast. Taking the mark means damnation without any second chance. You take the mark...your done. No looking back. Yet these millions will not take the mark and will have to be imprisioned or beheaded or killed or whatever... That's a lot more killing than even the Holocaust.

Matthew 24
21 For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be.

 

[Eugene]

it doesn't, why? because your doctrine denies me what im entitiled. im not a gentile, but then again tog could be counted amongst isreal and isreal isn't a location its people. all lineages were reconciled orally for the most part. does blood line matter to god? no, not really. a Hebrew was by faith, the count did included many a goyim. they joined unto isreal and horeb, and well these tribes are goyim mixed. mannaseh, Ephraim, some of Judah, some of levy. and likely as well all of the tribes as that mixed multitude had joined themselves as isreal left Egypt. they became Hebrews when they agreed to the torah.

isreal is like the church, a mix of gentiles and Hebrews. the Hebrews were the majority in the past, now they will be the minority. you also implied a work based system. the torah was never that. it had elements of faith. the rcc isn't mentioned in the bible per those chapters, that is isreal. did isreal kill the apostles? yup, and did romans then go along too? yup! isreal also is where the lord was crucified not rome.

Brother Jason, exactly what is there to be sought in your heritage that could surpass the glory God has prepared for you in Christ?

In Rom 11:1 Paul said, “I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.”

And Paul continues:
Php 3:3 For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh.
Php 3:4 Though I might also have confidence in the flesh. If any other man thinketh that he hath whereof he might trust in the flesh, I more:
Php 3:5 Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee;
Php 3:6 Concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless.
Php 3:7 But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ.
Php 3:8 Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ,
Php 3:9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:

Is that the end of Paul’s race?
2 Tim 4:6 For I am now ready to be offered, and the time of my departure is at hand.
2 Tim 4:7 I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith: Do you think Paul was
2 Tim 4:8 Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing.

In all this do you think Paul was reminiscing his heritage as being a member of the tribe of Benjamin? What more could he have gained? We’re even told in 1 Co 11:1 “Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ.” Why? Rom 2:16, “In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.”

God bless you in Jesus’ name, and remember Gal 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.