abomination of desolation

[Stormcrow]

490 hebrew yrs do not equal 490 solar Gregorian calendar yrs, that's a fact.

Nonsense. The Jews added months as needed to cause their lunar calendar to coincide with solar cycles upon which other western calendars are based.

To compensate for this drift, the Jewish calendar uses a 12-month lunar calendar with an extra month occasionally added. The month of Nissan occurs 11 days earlier each year for two or three years, and then jumps forward 30 days, balancing out the drift. In ancient times, this month was added by observation: the Sanhedrin observed the conditions of the weather, the crops and the livestock, and if these were not sufficiently advanced to be considered "spring," then the Sanhedrin inserted an additional month into the calendar to make sure that Pesach (Passover) would occur in the spring (it is, after all, referred to in the Torah as Chag he-Aviv, the Festival of Spring!).

​

You can learn more about this here:

Judaism 101: Jewish Calendar

and here:

Because of the roughly eleven-day difference between twelve lunar months and one solar year, the length of the Hebrew calendar year varies in a repeating 19-year Metonic cycle of 235 lunar months, with an intercalary lunar month added according to defined rules every two or three years, for a total of 7 times per 19 years.

Hebrew calendar - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

​

It doesn't matter whether one calendar has 360 days and the other has 365.25 days if the "short" calendar compensates every few months or years. That's precisely what the Jews did to even out the difference between their calendar and those used by Babylonians, Persians, Greeks and Romans!

 

[Stormcrow]

The "abomination of desolation" is evident in that from the time of the Greek lil horn to Christ's time, there was no prophet and the bible was sealed and not interpreted correctly, the reason for Christ teaching his followers how to interpret and read the scriptures. These are the facts.

The Greek "little horn" was Antiochus IV Epiphanes, and he was reigning terror upon the Jews from 167 to 164 BC. By any standard, that's only about 130 years.

The last OT prophet was Malachi, whose prophetic ministry is estimated to have been around 435 BC. Even at this point, not all 490 years can be accounted for.

 

[precepts]

So, let me see if I understand what you're saying. The seventy sevens have been completely fulfilled in the 490 years that the Persians and Greeks occupied Israel?

Can you expand on that a little bit please. What are the years exactly that you say encompass the 490 years? From when till when?

From Cyrus to the last greek king conquered by Rome. The fact remains that Cyrus died before 460 bc which would null the theory of the 490 yrs ending in 7oad. That's the facts!

 

[precepts]

Nonsense. The Jews added months as needed to cause their lunar calendar to coincide with solar cycles upon which other western calendars are based.

Nonsense is the right word. You can't speak for the true Israel. You can only speak about what the history created for this so called Israel with their reinvented tongue and customs tell you.

To compensate for this drift, the Jewish calendar uses a 12-month lunar calendar with an extra month occasionally added. The month of Nissan occurs 11 days earlier each year for two or three years, and then jumps forward 30 days, balancing out the drift. In ancient times, this month was added by observation: the Sanhedrin observed the conditions of the weather, the crops and the livestock, and if these were not sufficiently advanced to be considered "spring," then the Sanhedrin inserted an additional month into the calendar to make sure that Pesach (Passover) would occur in the spring (it is, after all, referred to in the Torah as Chag he-Aviv, the Festival of Spring!).

​

You can learn more about this here:

Judaism 101: Jewish Calendar

and here:

Because of the roughly eleven-day difference between twelve lunar months and one solar year, the length of the Hebrew calendar year varies in a repeating 19-year Metonic cycle of 235 lunar months, with an intercalary lunar month added according to defined rules every two or three years, for a total of 7 times per 19 years.

Hebrew calendar - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia​

! Inorder for 1,260 days to equal 3 1/2 yrs which it does in prophecy, each of the twelve months would have to have 30 days. Case in point is the amount of days it rained during the flood:

Gen 7:11 In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, the seventeenth day of the month, the same day were all the fountains of the great deep broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened.
--------
Gen 7:24 And the waters prevailed upon the earth an hundred and fifty days.


Gen 8:3 And the waters returned from off the earth continually: and after the end of the hundred and fifty days the waters were abated.
Gen 8:4 And the ark rested in the seventh month, on the seventeenth day of the month, upon the mountains of Ararat.

If it rained for 150 days, from the 17th day 2nd mth to the 17th day 7th mth which equals 5 mths, how much days did each month have?

These are the facts hidden from the world! These facts are critical when interpreting prophecies concerning the 1290, 1260, 1335 days prophecy, and all prophecies pertaining to days/yrs.

The Greek "little horn" was Antiochus IV Epiphanes, and he was reigning terror upon the Jews from 167 to 164 BC. By any standard, that's only about 130 years.

That's another lie, the greek lil horn was Antiochus III the Great. He ended the Aaronic priestly line and instituted a high priest that wasn't a son of Aaron, the "abomination of desolation."

The last OT prophet was Malachi, whose prophetic ministry is estimated to have been around 435 BC. Even at this point, not all 490 years can be accounted for.

Say what?!​

 

[Stormcrow]

That's another lie, the greek lil horn was Antiochus III the Great.

I think you had better check your facts.

 

[Stormcrow]

You can't speak for the true Israel.

I wasn't trying to. How insightful of you to notice.

You can only speak about what the history created for this so called Israel with their reinvented tongue and customs tell you.

:biglol

 

[noble]

I wasn't trying to. How insightful of you to notice.



:biglol

Hi Stormcrow,

Gotta like that handle...

Back a ways you compared the abomination of Mark and Matthew to the armies... that is correct of course, but this may be a new layer of proof for you to apply to it.

When you track the abomination forward in Mark 13 or Matthew 24, you find the flight of the people and a series of events which ends in the shaking of the heavens.
Lo and behold, you find the same thing in Luke 21... after the armies surround there is the flight of the people and ..poof..we come once again to the shaking of the heavens. God said loud and clear, one sunny afternnoon, "I will shake the heavens ONCE more time!" In Hebrews 12:26 I think...

You can't have two different events which tell the people to flee Judea and then lead to a once in all creation event , shaking heaven. SO yes, Stormcrow you are right and there is one more reason you are right.

noble

 

[LastSeven]

Where do you see the shaking of the heavens and earth in the gospels?

EDIT: I found this one. Is this what you're referring to?

Matthew 27:50-52
New International Version (NIV)
50 And when Jesus had cried out again in a loud voice, he gave up his spirit.

51 At that moment the curtain of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom. The earth shook, the rocks split 52 and the tombs broke open. The bodies of many holy people who had died were raised to life.

 

[LastSeven]

What about the army of Joel 2? Isn't this also a still future shaking event?

Joel 2:10
Before them the earth shakes, the heavens tremble, the sun and moon are darkened, and the stars no longer shine.

So am I seeing two shaking events (Matthew 27 & Joel 2) that occur after the statement in Hebrews 12?

Perhaps when he said "once more" he didn't mean "only once more".

 

[noble]

Hi LastSeven;

Where do you see the shaking of the heavens and earth in the gospels?

The shaking of the heavens is in all three accounts of the answer Jesus gave to His disciples concerning the destruction of the temple.

Mark 13
25 the stars will fall from the sky,
and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.

Matthew 25
29 “Immediately after the distress of those days
“‘the sun will be darkened,
and the moon will not give its light;
the stars will fall from the sky,
and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.

and Luke 21
26 Men will faint from terror, apprehensive of what is coming on the world, for the heavenly bodies will be shaken.

God tells us He will shake heaven only ONE more time,

Hebrews 12

26 At that time his voice shook the earth, but now he has promised, “Once more I will shake not only the earth but also the heavens.”

The writer goes on to explain the significance...
27 The words “once more” indicate the removing of what can be shaken—that is, created things—so that what cannot be shaken may remain.

What is happening is the kingdom is being established......

28 Therefore, since we are receiving a kingdom that cannot be shaken, let us be thankful, and so worship God acceptably with reverence and awe,

I left the next verse in here as a note on the 'fire' we read about in the bible...

29 for our “God is a consuming fire.”

I don't think the earth shaking as the curtain was 'rent in twain', isn't that a doozy of a phrase, ripped!!!! is the same time.

God shook the heavens a few times yes, but the significance here is that back in the days that Hebrews was written, it was written that it would only be once more and that is at the time of the one and only great trib/parousia.

Thanks for responding LastSeven,

noble

 

[noble]

Hi LastSeven;

Sorry, I didn't specifically address Joel 2...........

What about the army of Joel 2? Isn't this also a still future shaking
event?

Future to when Joel wrote it, yes. Future to us now , no, I don't think so.

Joel 2:10
Before them the earth shakes, the heavens tremble, the sun and moon are darkened, and the stars no longer shine.

The son and moon are darkened and the earth trembles.. sure does sound like the words in Mark 13, Matt 24 and Luke 21 doesn't it?

I have never seen any concrete time when Joel was written and little seems to be known of Joel in the first place. We do know that a devasting mess of locusts took place somewhere back in the 600's BC? when some guess Joel was around. Joel was a minor prophet but what did he predict?

Let all who live in the land tremble,
for the day of the LORD is coming.
It is close at hand—
2 a day of darkness and gloom,
a day of clouds and blackness.
Like dawn spreading across the mountains
a large and mighty army comes,
such as never was of old
nor ever will be in ages to come.

Boy that sure does look like the start up of the Judean rebellion doesn't it?

10 Before them the earth shakes,
the sky trembles,
the sun and moon are darkened,
and the stars no longer shine.
11 The LORD thunders
at the head of his army;
his forces are beyond number,
and mighty are those who obey his command.
The day of the LORD is great;
it is dreadful.
Who can endure it?

Looks like God is directing the symbolic army of grasshoppers doesn't it? That sure fits in wih how God called up a earthly army to adminster the wrath of God on a people that rejected Hs son, Matthew 23.

However this may only be a type and a shadow of things because Joel goes on to say,
28 “And afterward,
I will pour out my Spirit on all people.
Your sons and daughters will prophesy,
your old men will dream dreams,
your young men will see visions.
29 Even on my servants, both men and women,
I will pour out my Spirit in those days.
30 I will show wonders in the heavens
and on the earth,
blood and fire and billows of smoke.
31 The sun will be turned to darkness
and the moon to blood
before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD.

Luke refers back to that in Acts 2 so this is just after the ascension.

????????????????? So when the grasshopper army does it's thing would be a speculation on my part because literally here it would appear to be before the ascension even............ if it is all symbolic for the final shaking of the earth then it has no choice but to be the one at the time of the coming and great trib, if the symbolism refers to any othe time it doesn't matter any way because when the heavens were shaken before the last shake has no bearing on the timing.

So am I seeing two shaking events (Matthew 27 & Joel 2) that occur after
the statement in Hebrews 12?

Joel is ...when??? he is talking about the time just after the ascension and the battle looks as if it is BEFORE that so we need someone who studies the OT more than I do to figure that out. However the episode in Matthew 27 is before Hebrews was thought of.

Perhaps when he said "once more" he didn't mean "only once more".

Well, if we go with that premise, the skies the limit. We can develop any kind of a Christianity we want.... oh! What am I saying??????

noble