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Guest, Join Papa Zoom today for some uplifting biblical encouragement! --> Daily Verses
Abomination that causes Desolation
- Thread starter JohnDB
- Start date
turnorburn
Member
Something like this?
Daniel 11:36 And the king shall do according to his will; and he shall exalt himself, and magnify himself above every god, and shall speak marvellous things against the God of gods, and shall prosper till the indignation be accomplished: for that that is determined shall be done.
37 Neither shall he regard the God of his fathers, nor the desire of women, nor regard any god: for he shall magnify himself above all.
Daniel 11:36 And the king shall do according to his will; and he shall exalt himself, and magnify himself above every god, and shall speak marvellous things against the God of gods, and shall prosper till the indignation be accomplished: for that that is determined shall be done.
37 Neither shall he regard the God of his fathers, nor the desire of women, nor regard any god: for he shall magnify himself above all.
JohnDB
Member
That's a description of the Antichrist...
Not the subject of this thread...
This one is about the "Abomination that causes desolation" in the Olivet discourse.
The abomination of desolation in Matthew 24:15 was 1260 years (a year is as a day with the Lord) of Papal Rome rule from 538AD with Emperor Justinian’s decree and under the military protection of Belisarius and the beast until the deadly wound came in 1798 by General Berthier who made his entrance into Rome and abolished the papal government and established a secular one. This is also confirmed in Revelation 12:6 the church of Jesus would hide in the wilderness for exactly 1260 days (years) or 3 ½ years. This was the time when Rome persecuted the Christians and killed them which were around 500 million saints slain for the cause of their faith in Jesus. 1798 – 538 = 1260 days/years. Napoleon had closed down the Catholic Church and the Papacy, its power was thought to be forever broken. The wound was largely healed in 1929 when Mussolini gave the Vatican back to the Pope and established it as a country in it's own right in the Lateran Treaty.
JohnDB
Member
Never heard any of this ever before applied in such a fashion. (And some of it never before)
So 66AD isn't on your radar screen?
Not the Golden Roman Eagle put over the gate?
Huh....
Two different thread hijackings on one simple subject...
"The Abomination That Causes Desolation"
Obviously I am the only one with courage enough to start a thread to discuss a simple thing. Everyone else wants to talk about everything else.
Not hijacking anything. You asked a question and I gave an answer to what I believe it was. Maybe you need to explain what you believe it is instead of condemning others for what they believe it is.
JohnDB
Member
Well what you are claiming is definitely not the norm in Christiandom.
Never heard anything like this before and some of the history you are trying to relate I have never heard before.
So...
Since I have "been around the block" a few times... And this is new news to me...
You are going to have to give a "Cliff Notes" version and make a case why this is the "Abomination that causes Desolation" that Jesus was referring to and has a footnote also saying "let the reader understand" instead of the Roman Golden Eagle placed over the Gate to the Temple in 66AD that Menalaus and friends cut down, got executed for, and subsequently the riot, and the seige that lasted for three and a half years.
JohnDB
Member
But...why then was the "footnote" included with the scripture of "let the reader understand"?
JohnDB
Member
In All of them...
Matthew 24:15
JohnDB
Member
Daniel was written to those understaning Aramaic and Hebrew...because it was written in two languages and by two people. The only "Gentile" to add a section of the Old Testament.
JohnDB
Member
Passion week.
I ran across this:
What we're looking at here is a reference to the abomination of desolation, a phrase which one encounters in Daniel 11:31. What's the abomination of desolation? Well, when Antiochus Epiphanes (Syrian ruler in the 160s B.C.) attempted to take over Israel and exterminate the practice of Judaism in the process, he set up idols in the Second Temple in Jerusalem, and sacrificed pigs on the altar. This was referred to in the apocryphal book of First Maccabees 1:54 as the abomination of desolation -- something so abominable that it implied a desolation (meaning that a desolation had just occurred, or was about to occur). Antiochus Epiphanes was repulsed in the Maccabean War, and when the dust cleared, the independent Hasmonean dynasty was in charge of Israel. But the people never forgot what Antiochus Epiphanes had done in the Temple. Jews today still celebrate the occasion of the temples re-dedication after Antiochus defeat, at Hanukkah.
Matthew's phrase Let the reader understand is just a heads-up to remind his readers about the sort of thing that was described as an abomination of desolation in the past. The idea is that even though Antiochus Epiphanes was defeated, the people of God have not seen the last of the abomination of desolation. Jesus predicted that such a thing will once again occur. But Jesus did not specify exactly what form this recurrence would take. He left it up to the people who would be living when it occurred to identify it (and thus remain vigilant against similar but less noteworthy evils).
Theres more to the picture: The phrase let the reader understand appears here in Matthew probably because it appeared in the early draft of the Gospel of Mark which Matthew used as a source. In Mark 13:14 -- or rather, in the part of the floating composition which was incorporated into the Gospel of Mark so as to later be known as Mark 13:14 -- the phrase may have appeared to alert readers to the possibility that they would be well-advised to keep their eyes open for the abomination of desolation to recur.
(There was an persistent tension in Jerusalem in those days about the presence or absence of Roman insignia and such on the Temple-grounds. The Romans wanted their insignia and/or statues there to remind the Jews who was in charge, while the Jewish leaders refused to allow them there, on the grounds that the Roman eagles and such were graven images. Josephus preserved some interesting stories illustrating the determination of both sides to frustrate the other.)
What we're looking at here is a reference to the abomination of desolation, a phrase which one encounters in Daniel 11:31. What's the abomination of desolation? Well, when Antiochus Epiphanes (Syrian ruler in the 160s B.C.) attempted to take over Israel and exterminate the practice of Judaism in the process, he set up idols in the Second Temple in Jerusalem, and sacrificed pigs on the altar. This was referred to in the apocryphal book of First Maccabees 1:54 as the abomination of desolation -- something so abominable that it implied a desolation (meaning that a desolation had just occurred, or was about to occur). Antiochus Epiphanes was repulsed in the Maccabean War, and when the dust cleared, the independent Hasmonean dynasty was in charge of Israel. But the people never forgot what Antiochus Epiphanes had done in the Temple. Jews today still celebrate the occasion of the temples re-dedication after Antiochus defeat, at Hanukkah.
Matthew's phrase Let the reader understand is just a heads-up to remind his readers about the sort of thing that was described as an abomination of desolation in the past. The idea is that even though Antiochus Epiphanes was defeated, the people of God have not seen the last of the abomination of desolation. Jesus predicted that such a thing will once again occur. But Jesus did not specify exactly what form this recurrence would take. He left it up to the people who would be living when it occurred to identify it (and thus remain vigilant against similar but less noteworthy evils).
Theres more to the picture: The phrase let the reader understand appears here in Matthew probably because it appeared in the early draft of the Gospel of Mark which Matthew used as a source. In Mark 13:14 -- or rather, in the part of the floating composition which was incorporated into the Gospel of Mark so as to later be known as Mark 13:14 -- the phrase may have appeared to alert readers to the possibility that they would be well-advised to keep their eyes open for the abomination of desolation to recur.
(There was an persistent tension in Jerusalem in those days about the presence or absence of Roman insignia and such on the Temple-grounds. The Romans wanted their insignia and/or statues there to remind the Jews who was in charge, while the Jewish leaders refused to allow them there, on the grounds that the Roman eagles and such were graven images. Josephus preserved some interesting stories illustrating the determination of both sides to frustrate the other.)
JohnDB
Member
You are correct... Foot notes at the bottom of the page or side of the page came much later...this is included as scripture since it was written.
Jesus said "This generation.. "
jasonc
Member
Oh,continue,titus,the image of titus