Abomination that causes Desolation

[reba]

where is the 'holy place'

IF we are to literally rum will your AC be literally standing in the holy place

 

[JohnDB]

where is the 'holy place'

IF we are to literally rum will your AC be literally standing in the holy place

Good questions...

But this is why I have brought up the original question.

Jesus' arrival as far as timing goes was specifically predicted... Very precise.
But no one who should have recognized him did. Only a bunch of Yahoo's did.

Soooo

What do we think is different about today?

I want to avoid such things.

In Sodom no one recognized The Angel of God except Lot...

And the same will be true for the final eschaton.

When is it time to run?

 

[markathome]

Something about the pigs is still floating around in my head, I do love bbq but why was the pigs worse then the human children these people was sacrificing?

where is the 'holy place'

If our mind is the temple and a Holy Place, then what is the internet but a temple filled up with millions of people into a collective temple?
The AC could literally be in the temple already?

 

[reba]

His birth death and resurrection only happens once.
The vail rent at his death and with in that generation the temple was destroyed not just the building but the whole of the temple way of life..

 

[reba]

Something about the pigs is still floating around in my head, I do love bbq but why was the pigs worse then the human children these people was sacrificing?


If our mind is the temple and a Holy Place, then what is the internet but a temple filled up with millions of people into a collective temple?
The AC could literally be in the temple already?

do we not worship the Lord in Spirit and truth.. that is not our minds

 

[markathome]

1 Corinthians 6:19-20
What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?

Mind -> Worship with?
Body -> Worship with?

 

[markathome]

New Temple:

Definition humon:

1. the body both of men or animals
2. the bodies of planets and of stars (heavenly bodies)
3. is used of a (large or small) number of men closely united into one society, or family as it were; a social, ethical, mystical body
   1. so in the NT of the church
4. that which casts a shadow as distinguished from the shadow itself

 

[JLB]

We know it happened around 66AD.

What happened around 66 A.D.?


JLB

 

[Endtime_Survivors]

It's a possibility.
I, at the moment, don't know how the Jews will ever get the chance to build the Temple back.
All the materials, (including ashes from a red heifer) are ready. Oils, menorahs, anointing oil, cranes and lulls and bobcats and every last piece catalogued and numbered...it will go up really fast.

But the issue is world outcry.

Oil producing nations are moslem.
So unless a replacement for oil is found I don't see it happening.

Prophecy suggests it will happen. The fact that it sounds so impossible (or implausible) will probably only add to the AC's credibility when he manages to pull it off. One possible scenario involves the destruction of America via surprise military strike. There are 5 permanent members on the UN security counsel. Without America, England and France would be powerless to stop a Russia/China take-over. These 5 permanent members also use animal symbols for their country which just happen to relate to the composition of the two beasts from Daniel and Revelation, except in the Revelation beast the eagle's wings are missing; they were "plucked". Also, adding to the dominance of this new political union, the prophecy says the Beast will be aided by 10 kings. Coincidentally, there are 10 rotating members on the UN security counsel (usually 2nd and 3rd world powers).

With America out of the way, the world's power structure and politics will shift dramatically. In the wake of such terrifying destruction there will be a push for peace like the world has never seen, and what could be a better symbol for kick-starting this new era of peace than "peace in the middle east".

It's likely that some kind of compromise will be found where the land will be shared, quite possibly with a catholic cathedral alongside the Temple and the Dome. Getting the Pope (and by default over a billion people) on-side will be an important part of "world peace" (though in practical reality it will be in support of the new political power).

And Christians have been persecuted since....forever. Lol..
In these later times the communist countries have persecuted and the Moslems have since WWII.
(Mostly due to their siding with Germany and the Christian's affinity with Israel.

Very true. All who live Godly in Christ Jesus will suffer persecution. But, there will be one Great Tribulation, such as the world has never seen nor will see again. I think the "abomination of desolation" works on more than one level, but to me, the abomination doesn't have anything to do with the physical temple; it is the spiritual temple (the people) who are important to God.

When we see the AC desecrating the physical temple, we should understand the great tribulation is coming to trample the spiritual temple.

 

[Endtime_Survivors]

Welcome to CF.net.

Oh, and thanks for the welcome.

 

[JohnDB]

What happened around 66 A.D.?


JLB

That was when Herod erected Caesar's portrait all over Jerusalem (a blasphemy) and erected a Golden Eagle over the entrance to the Temple.
A band of men led by Menelaus cut the Eagle down, got executed for it, and subsequently started a revolt against the Roman Empire.
They holed up in the Temple and Jerusalem for three and a half years...one of the fire arrows set the storerooms on fire so they had no food for those years.
When the seige ended the soldiers were prying the rocks apart to get at the gold leaf covering them.

The Jews who surrendered were hacked to pieces as some had swallowed gold coins from the Temple's Treasury to smuggle it out and the soldiers wanted the gold.

The seige and Temple destruction came to an end in 70 AD...

 

[JLB]

That was when Herod erected Caesar's portrait all over Jerusalem (a blasphemy) and erected a Golden Eagle over the entrance to the Temple.
A band of men led by Menelaus cut the Eagle down, got executed for it, and subsequently started a revolt against the Roman Empire.
They holed up in the Temple and Jerusalem for three and a half years...one of the fire arrows set the storerooms on fire so they had no food for those years.
When the seige ended the soldiers were prying the rocks apart to get at the gold leaf covering them.

The Jews who surrendered were hacked to pieces as some had swallowed gold coins from the Temple's Treasury to smuggle it out and the soldiers wanted the gold.

The seige and Temple destruction came to an end in 70 AD...

Does this story mean you believe the great tribulation that was such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be. And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the elect’s sake those days will be shortened, was in 66 A.D.?


JLB

 

[JohnDB]

Does this story mean you believe the great tribulation that was such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be. And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the elect’s sake those days will be shortened, was in 66 A.D.?


JLB

Well I tend to.
Mostly because as reba pointed out earlier the "this generation" was used in this discourse.
That doesn't mean though that it won't happen again or that metaphorically it hasn't happened since then.
God's word is always timeless.
Meaning that before each Christian Empire falls there is an abomination which usually preceded the falling.

For Britain it was their poor treatment of Israel, for the Catholic Church of old (pre-reformation) it was the manner they performed the Crusades.

There is a case which could be made for many abominations.

Is America heading towards one?
Probably...most likely and in fact definitely.
Will it be the start of the final eschaton?
I'm not sure...final enough for me and my lifetime.

 

[Edward]

Well I tend to.
Mostly because as reba pointed out earlier the "this generation" was used in this discourse.

That was a good point/question that JLB said.

I wonder if the use of the term, generation was used here as it was in Genesis 6 where it spoke of his bloodline?

 

[reba]

So many folks who claim to 'take' the Word of God literally .. dont when Jesus is quoted..

 

[JohnDB]

That was a good point/question that JLB said.

I wonder if the use of the term, generation was used here as it was in Genesis 6 where it spoke of his bloodline?

And again... Great point.
"Generation" has that double entendre meaning as well for "race/nationality".

The Jews have remained and flourished as a people group despite several periods of intentional extermination.

Which makes this, and many other prophetic sections timeless, and repeated.

 

[Edward]

I just looked it up in the BLB. It's;

G1074

1. fathered, birth, nativity
   
   
2. that which has been begotten, men of the same stock, a family
   
   1. the several ranks of natural descent, the successive members of a genealogy
      
      
   2. metaph. a group of men very like each other in endowments, pursuits, character
      
      1. esp. in a bad sense, a perverse nation
         
3. the whole multitude of men living at the same time
   
   
4. an age (i.e. the time ordinarily occupied be each successive generation), a space of 30 - 33 years/
   

It makes more sense to read it as all mankind to me. That, then shall be great tribulation such as the world has never seen, sounds like...a huge event. Too huge to have happened already.

 

[reba]

Jesus said this generation

 

[JohnDB]

I just looked it up in the BLB. It's;

G1074

1. fathered, birth, nativity
   
   
2. that which has been begotten, men of the same stock, a family
   1. the several ranks of natural descent, the successive members of a genealogy
      
      
   2. metaph. a group of men very like each other in endowments, pursuits, character
      1. esp. in a bad sense, a perverse nation
3. the whole multitude of men living at the same time
   
   
4. an age (i.e. the time ordinarily occupied be each successive generation), a space of 30 - 33 years/

It makes more sense to read it as all mankind to me. That, then shall be great tribulation such as the world has never seen, sounds like...a huge event. Too huge to have happened already.

What if "all the above" is what was meant?

As has been before?

 

[JLB]

Mostly because as reba pointed out earlier the "this generation" was used in this discourse.

"This generation" is a reference to the generation that will see the signs He gave, using the fig tree and it's blossoms as an example of seeing "these things" He just got through describing.

32 “Now learn this parable from the fig tree: When its branch has already become tender and puts forth leaves, you know that summer is near.33 So you also, when you see all these things, know that it is near—at the doors! 34 Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all these things take place. 35 Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will by no means pass away. Matthew 24:32-35



9 “Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and kill you, and you will be hated by all nations for My name’s sake. 10 And then many will be offended, will betray one another, and will hate one another. 11 Then many false prophets will rise up and deceive many. 12 And because lawlessness will abound, the love of many will grow cold. 13 But he who endures to the end shall be saved. 14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come.

Do you believe the end came in 66 AD or 70 AD?


15 “Therefore when you see the ‘abomination of desolation,’ spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place” (whoever reads, let him understand), 16 “then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 17 Let him who is on the housetop not go down to take anything out of his house. 18 And let him who is in the field not go back to get his clothes. 19 But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! 20 And pray that your flight may not be in winter or on the Sabbath. 21 For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be. 22 And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the elect’s sake those days will be shortened.

23 “Then if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Christ!’ or ‘There!’ do not believe it. 24 For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. 25 See, I have told you beforehand.

26 “Therefore if they say to you, ‘Look, He is in the desert!’ do not go out; or ‘Look, He is in the inner rooms!’ do not believe it. 27 For as the lightning comes from the east and flashes to the west, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. 28 For wherever the carcass is, there the eagles will be gathered together.

29 “Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
Matthew 24:9-32


Do you believe Jesus Christ has come and the Resurrection is past?


“Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. Matthew 24:29


Do you believe "these signs" happened in 70 AD ?



JLB