Abomination that causes Desolation

[for_his_glory]

Well what you are claiming is definitely not the norm in Christiandom.

Never heard anything like this before and some of the history you are trying to relate I have never heard before.

So...
Since I have "been around the block" a few times... And this is new news to me...
You are going to have to give a "Cliff Notes" version and make a case why this is the "Abomination that causes Desolation" that Jesus was referring to and has a footnote also saying "let the reader understand" instead of the Roman Golden Eagle placed over the Gate to the Temple in 66AD that Menalaus and friends cut down, got executed for, and subsequently the riot, and the seige that lasted for three and a half years.

Just because one has never heard it taught before doesn't mean it's not out there for our learning if we do the digging as I have with scripture and history.

Jesus said in Matthew 24:15 that Daniel already spoke about this abomination, Daniel 9:24-27; 11:36-45, and Paul also speaks of this in 2Thessalonians 2:1-12 that has always caused desolation or another word annihilation of Gods people that started with the Babylonian Empire and ending with the revived Roman Empire. This is what the reader is to understand.

To stand in the holy place means to flee that which is evil happening around you and not to partake in that the evil as it could consume you. Flee to the mountain meaning flee to the presence of God who is our help in times of trouble. We can see this in the below scriptures as stand in the holy place, standing where it not ought and flee to the mountain. Mountain can be a metaphor for God as being our high Priest. Our holy place is our faith that is Christ Jesus as we are sealed by the Holy Spirit that Gods final wrath during the seven trumpets and seven vial judgments will not fall on us as God keeps us during this time. Matthew 24:15; Mark 13:14 Luke 21:21

Daniel 9:24-27 the Vision of the Seventy Weeks

Vs. 24 this verse shows us that the timing from Ezra to the cross was 490 days as within that time Ezra was reestablishing the law in Jerusalem until Jesus had fulfilled the end of transgression, made an end to sin, made reconciliation for iniquity and bring everlasting righteousness and to seal up the prophecy to make an end to the law through the cross.

Vs. 25 from the time of the cross, which also means the last days, which includes what some like to separate and call “The Great Tribulation”, which is not mentioned anywhere in scripture and is not a separate event after the elect of God are caught up, but as the last days so we are in tribulation times until the end of the world as we know it, Acts 2:17; Hebrews 1:1,2; Matthew 24:4-31; Mark 13:24-31; Luke 21:5-36. These are just some of the scriptures that support that we will go through all things of Rev Chapter 6-21. Everyone will have opportunity to come unto salvation through Jesus Christ if they would only believe until the door of salvation is closed when Jesus calls us and we meet him in the air, which after this time no one can be saved, Matthew 25:10.

Vs.26 after 434 years that end in the year AD29 shall Messiah be cut off. Jesus was crucified after he was baptized in AD 29 three and a half years later. Jesus was cut off (killed) by the people of the prince, which means National Israel or other words the Pharisees, Sanhedrin and the high priest that destroy the city and the sanctuary (meaning Christ) and the end thereof shall be with a flood (Gods wrath) that will put an end to abominations by desolation or in other words a ruin to evil deeds. Daniel 9:27 explains the definitions of desolation of abominations or the ruin of evil deeds. There is no actual Desolation of Abominations where the so-called Antichrist will take a literal throne, but the desolation will be when the false prophet tries to take his throne in Jerusalem, Daniel 11:36-45, Rev 13. Gods word never defines one great Antichrist, but says there are many antichrists, 1John2:18; 11 Thessalonians 2:1-12; Revelation 11:7. The seven years that some call the seven year tribulation means three and a half years of Jesus teaching before he was crucified and three and a half years of Steven teaching before he was stoned to death, which took place after Jesus was ascended to heaven.

Vs.27 the 70th seven began with Christ baptism in AD 29 and three years later at the end of the first half of the 70th seven sacrifices and offering ceased because Christ hung on the cross. From the giving of the law in 458BC when Ezra went to establish the law, or to rebuild the spiritual city right to the cross where the first 69 sevens. The 70th seven is from the time of the cross until Jesus comes back in the air to call his Bride home, Rev 19, and for the overspreading of abominations he will make desolate, or in other words make an end to all sin here on this present earth.

 

[Endtime_Survivors]

Is that a prophesy of both mid and distant future?

If it was to metaphorically happen today what would that look like?

Hi John,

I'm not sure if it is metaphorical or just a duel meaning to the prophecy. I think some prophecies are like that; they can have a literal and spiritual meaning, though in this case I'm less inclined to think one of the meanings was the destruction of the temple shortly after Jesus died.

I think it's a fairly specific reference to the End Time and that the "let him who understands" is probably a reference to the spiritual temple as the "holy place" rather than the physical temple.

It is my understanding that the final 7 years will be kicked off by an agreement to rebuild the temple. The Daniel 9 prophecy is worded in such a way that it is implying 2 separate agreements by two different princes (Jesus the prince of Peace and Satan the Prince of this world).

For the flesh Jews who only want their temple back they will make an agreement with the AC (though they won't recognize him as the AC, but rather a political figure helping their country) to rebuild the temple, while Jesus will make an agreement with 144k of his followers, whom he has personally chosen to be his spiritual temple.

This is consistent with the concept of the body being the temple of God, while God himself shunned the physical temple (Matthew 27:51).

In Revelation 11:2-3 there is reference to the "Holy City" being "trod under foot 42 months" which is the same as 1260 days and 3.5 years of great tribulation, the same period of time mentioned when the AC would renege on his part of the agreement (Daniel 9:27) and for how the AC will fight against Christians (Daniel 8:13-14).

So, while the AC probably will profane the physical temple in some way for shock value, I believe the "let him who understands" phrase is referring to the spiritual temple being profaned (i.e. the real abomination is his persecution of God's saints). This is further supported by the next few verses including instructions for the saints to go into hiding and to prepare for "great tribulation" (Matthew 24:16-21).

 

[JohnDB]

Hi John,

I'm not sure if it is metaphorical or just a duel meaning to the prophecy. I think some prophecies are like that; they can have a literal and spiritual meaning, though in this case I'm less inclined to think one of the meanings was the destruction of the temple shortly after Jesus died.

I think it's a fairly specific reference to the End Time and that the "let him who understands" is probably a reference to the spiritual temple as the "holy place" rather than the physical temple.

It is my understanding that the final 7 years will be kicked off by an agreement to rebuild the temple. The Daniel 9 prophecy is worded in such a way that it is implying 2 separate agreements by two different princes (Jesus the prince of Peace and Satan the Prince of this world).

For the flesh Jews who only want their temple back they will make an agreement with the AC (though they won't recognize him as the AC, but rather a political figure helping their country) to rebuild the temple, while Jesus will make an agreement with 144k of his followers, whom he has personally chosen to be his spiritual temple.

This is consistent with the concept of the body being the temple of God, while God himself shunned the physical temple (Matthew 27:51).

In Revelation 11:2-3 there is reference to the "Holy City" being "trod under foot 42 months" which is the same as 1260 days and 3.5 years of great tribulation, the same period of time mentioned when the AC would renege on his part of the agreement (Daniel 9:27) and for how the AC will fight against Christians (Daniel 8:13-14).

So, while the AC probably will profane the physical temple in some way for shock value, I believe the "let him who understands" phrase is referring to the spiritual temple being profaned (i.e. the real abomination is his persecution of God's saints). This is further supported by the next few verses including instructions for the saints to go into hiding and to prepare for "great tribulation" (Matthew 24:16-21).

Welcome to CF.net.

Now when the Romans put their Eagle above the Gate it symbolized that the Jews could worship God only because "they allowed it".

So...
In my mind it's a wonder that we haven't crossed that line in American politics to date...
If we have I'm not aware of it.
(Which is possible)

And if it does happen...I might just run for the hills.

 

[markathome]

he set up idols in the Second Temple in Jerusalem, and sacrificed pigs on the altar.

130 days till it happens again, it happens every year. Only difference is that instead of pigs being sacrificed its people sacrificing themselves to the idol of the beast. I wonder if a lot of blood will be required this year? we shall see.

 

[reba]

That roman eagle comes up a lot..

 

[Endtime_Survivors]

Welcome to CF.net.

Now when the Romans put their Eagle above the Gate it symbolized that the Jews could worship God only because "they allowed it".

So...
In my mind it's a wonder that we haven't crossed that line in American politics to date...
If we have I'm not aware of it.
(Which is possible)

And if it does happen...I might just run for the hills.

Sooo, what did you think about my post?

 

[markathome]

Serpent​

Rev 12:14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.

Jeremiah 5:21-31

 

[Edward]

I ran across this:
What we're looking at here is a reference to the abomination of desolation, a phrase which one encounters in Daniel 11:31. What's the abomination of desolation? Well, when Antiochus Epiphanes (Syrian ruler in the 160s B.C.) attempted to take over Israel and exterminate the practice of Judaism in the process, he set up idols in the Second Temple in Jerusalem, and sacrificed pigs on the altar. This was referred to in the apocryphal book of First Maccabees 1:54 as the abomination of desolation -- something so abominable that it implied a desolation (meaning that a desolation had just occurred, or was about to occur). Antiochus Epiphanes was repulsed in the Maccabean War, and when the dust cleared, the independent Hasmonean dynasty was in charge of Israel. But the people never forgot what Antiochus Epiphanes had done in the Temple. Jews today still celebrate the occasion of the temples re-dedication after Antiochus defeat, at Hanukkah.

Matthew's phrase Let the reader understand is just a heads-up to remind his readers about the sort of thing that was described as an abomination of desolation in the past. The idea is that even though Antiochus Epiphanes was defeated, the people of God have not seen the last of the abomination of desolation. Jesus predicted that such a thing will once again occur. But Jesus did not specify exactly what form this recurrence would take. He left it up to the people who would be living when it occurred to identify it (and thus remain vigilant against similar but less noteworthy evils).

Theres more to the picture: The phrase let the reader understand appears here in Matthew probably because it appeared in the early draft of the Gospel of Mark which Matthew used as a source. In Mark 13:14 -- or rather, in the part of the floating composition which was incorporated into the Gospel of Mark so as to later be known as Mark 13:14 -- the phrase may have appeared to alert readers to the possibility that they would be well-advised to keep their eyes open for the abomination of desolation to recur.

(There was an persistent tension in Jerusalem in those days about the presence or absence of Roman insignia and such on the Temple-grounds. The Romans wanted their insignia and/or statues there to remind the Jews who was in charge, while the Jewish leaders refused to allow them there, on the grounds that the Roman eagles and such were graven images. Josephus preserved some interesting stories illustrating the determination of both sides to frustrate the other.)

Thats interesting.

 

[jasonc]

Thats interesting.

I have said that before,it was something I noticed when I did the festival of lights.

 

[JohnDB]

Sooo, what did you think about my post?

It's a possibility.
I, at the moment, don't know how the Jews will ever get the chance to build the Temple back.
All the materials, (including ashes from a red heifer) are ready. Oils, menorahs, anointing oil, cranes and lulls and bobcats and every last piece catalogued and numbered...it will go up really fast.

But the issue is world outcry.

Oil producing nations are moslem.
So unless a replacement for oil is found I don't see it happening.

And Christians have been persecuted since....forever. Lol..
In these later times the communist countries have persecuted and the Moslems have since WWII.
(Mostly due to their siding with Germany and the Christian's affinity with Israel.

 

[Dave Watchman]

Serpent​

Rev 12:14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.

Not too bad.

I wonder where you got this idea from.

I wonder where the picture came from.

It must have been God that gave the woman the "two wings" and her "place" in the wilderness. If God does a thing that makes the thing holy and if He makes a "place" for the woman in the wilderness that would by default make the place a "holy place".

Time should soon tell if this is right or wrong but what is the abomination that is standing there?

 

[Dave Watchman]

In Matthew the Olivet discord it has a footnote.(let the reader understand)

We know it happened around 66AD.

Why did it include the footnote?

Because it didn't happen in the first century. I wonder how many people were readers of the NT in 66AD compared to the number of people reading it now. The footnote is mysterious but I think there's more to it than a simple situation to comprehend. It can't be explained in a single sentence like: " when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies". There's something a bit more on the elaborate side that would require an additional effort or insight to understand it.

What reba said in note # 8 comes to my mind as the first big hint. In 66AD after the curtain was torn and even now if they did a rebuilding, a temple made with human hands would no longer be a "holy place". Remember even David wanted to build the temple but God said wait and let Solomon do it. First the right holy place has to be found and where I think that is came as a welcome relief to God's people after the 1260 years of persecution during the dark ages.

What for_his_glory said in note # 4 I think is a huge piece of the puzzle that has to be understood first in relation to Daniel 7 and Revelation 12. But the 1st little horn or 1260 years of papal persecution was not the abomination of desolation standing where it ought not to be.

Is that a prophesy of both mid and distant future?

I don't think so. The abomination of desolation is unique in all of history, it's not the equivalent to Jerusalem surrounded by armies from Luke 21. It's the "transgression of desolation" from Daniel 8. It should also provide an answer to the question asked by "someone" in Daniel 12: "how long shall it be until the end of these wonders? We should be able to count forward 1290 days and find that the sun will be darkened and the moon will not give it's light.

If it was to metaphorically happen today what would that look like?

If it was to happen today we would probably wish it were a metaphor because it would mean that our fate is baked in the cake. It would mean that we're so close to the end that we wouldn't need to worry about our house or our coat or our car.

I can't be sure because if I were, I wouldn't have gone in to work today. I think that this would be an important one to figure out because it's the precursor sign prior to:

"For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been from the beginning of the world until now, no, and never will be. And if those days had not been cut short, no human being would be saved. But for the sake of the elect those days will be cut short.​

 

[for_his_glory]

Daniel Chapter 7 was an interpretation of a dream that Nebuchadnezzar had about four nations. Within these four nations we see how Satan tries to rule through man, but the kingdom of God prevails in judgment against these nations and the nations are turned over to the people of God for eternity. Notice also where these present day places in parentheses are located. Pagan nations also were often called beast in the Old Testament, which shows us to not take some words literally as many are also symbolic for our spiritual understanding.

Four nations:

Babylonian Empire:
(Iraq) The lion represents the winged lions that guarded the royal places of Babylon.

Medo – Persian Empire:
(Iran) The ribs of the bear are part of the consuming greed that devours the first empire.

Grecian Empire:
(Greece, Turkey, Syria, Egypt) Four wings of the leopard described the swiftness of this empire that ran from 334-331BC. It wrestled world dominion from Medo-Persia. After the death of Alexander the Great the kingdom was divided into four minor kingdoms that continued as prominent factors in world politics until the Roman Empire gathered it back as one kingdom.

Roman Empire:
Iron represents the stronghold this nation had. Daniel chapter 2 mentions the iron element of this empire that it to will be divided and broken as God will set up a kingdom that will never be destroyed.

 

[JohnDB]

If it was to happen today we would probably wish it were a metaphor because it would mean that our fate is baked in the cake. It would mean that we're so close to the end that we wouldn't need to worry about our house or our coat or our car.

I can't be sure because if I were, I wouldn't have gone in to work today. I think that this would be an important one to figure out because it's the precursor sign prior to:

"For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been from the beginning of the world until now, no, and never will be. And if those days had not been cut short, no human being would be saved. But for the sake of the elect those days will be cut short.​

This is the reason I'm asking.

If somehow it is performed (like the Eagle or something else akin) it might be time for an Exodus.

" ...come out of her my people.... "

Maybe it means just that.

Get outta Dodge because Dodge isn't going to be there any more.

 

[reba]

JohnDB are you one of God's people? just maybe you will be in the position to flee to mountains of judea over here in the states not so easy.

 

[markathome]

https://www.congress.gov/bill/114th-congress/house-resolution/569/text
It's a slow process, one little step at a time but its coming.

 

[JohnDB]

JohnDB are you one of God's people? just maybe you will be in the position to flee to mountains of judea over here in the states not so easy.

Uhhh. I live in Nashville TN.

I'm looking to keep my powder dry. Keep options available and open. I don't know the future. I know that God does.

My real home is in Heaven. But I currently have responsibilities here. Unless the Abomination that causes desolation happens. Then all bets are off.

 

[markathome]

Here's the current region, the 7 church's from revelation, do they even exist?
If you in the area in the map, then flee unless you crazy!

" ...come out of her my people.... "

Maybe it means just that.

 

[JohnDB]

I was thinking old Soviet Block or maybe Brazil.

Just anywhere else is good at that time.

But would it be wrong to put a plane ticket on a credit card when you know that the bank you are borrowing from will soon be destroyed?

 

[Dave Watchman]

Get outta Dodge because Dodge isn't going to be there any more.

That's what I think it means too and I got out of my Dodge City and moved a safe commuting distance away. I rode my bike through and stayed a night in Chattanooga Tennessee one time but it didn't really seem like a big bad city. It seemed kind of nice actually.

But it's not right for me to say don't worry about it because the Lord said that the tribulation would be great and that not much flesh would be saved alive. I think that the abomination of desolation is the tipping point that marks the technical start for our appointed time of the end. After it's set up there's some unknown amount of time that passes until something happens that will cause people to flee for their lives.

Matthew 24
“So when you see the abomination of desolation spoken of by the prophet Daniel, standing in the holy place (let the reader understand), then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. Let the one who is on the housetop not go down to take what is in his house, and let the one who is in the field not turn back to take his cloak.​

Check out how the same instructions to flee from the AofD in Matthew come after the "days of Lot" in Luke 17. Are the Bible writers trying to tell us that the abomination of desolation has some relationship with the "days of Lot".

Luke 17
Likewise, just as it was in the days of Lot—they were eating and drinking, buying and selling, planting and building, but on
the day when Lot went out from Sodom, fire and sulfur rained from heaven and destroyed them all— so will it be on
the day when the Son of Man is revealed.
On that day, let the one who is on the housetop, with his goods in the house, not come down to take them away, and likewise let the one who is in the field not turn back.​

I'm not sure here that "the day when the Son of Man is revealed" is a reference to the second coming. It might just mean that God is revealed through His actions when He intervenes in our affairs. If the 1st trumpet rains a meteoric fire storm and burns up a third of the planet, I'm sure most people would think that God is back and that He is not too happy with us.

But would it be wrong to put a plane ticket on a credit card when you know that the bank you are borrowing from will soon be destroyed?

It might only be wrong if you were caught in that flight without a parachute when trumpet number one falls.

"Pray that your flight may not be in winter or on a Sabbath.​