According to Jesus...

[jasoncran]

when you make that statement like that, on the addition or subtraction of books and the curse with it.

those that are into that lie like i was are condemned already then as they will hear that and recieve it and support such things.
but i am forgiven.

 

[watchman F]

he was never there in the first place.

You not take away from someone something they never had.

by your thinking i cant be saved nor all lbgt that read their bibles, and chruches that allow that sin. they deny those verses on that sin by either not preaching them or modifyind the bible

You do not have to modify the Bible to allow gays to be saved. I am not sure what you are talking about?????

in order to allow them to continue in sin. and think that god wont judge gays you do!

Of course they cannot continue in their sin. If you are acting on your impulse to have sex you are not a christian whether you are gay or straight.

Hebrews 13:4 Marriage is honourable in all, and the bed undefiled: but whoremongers and adulterers God will judge.

 

[watchman F]

when you make that statement like that, on the addition or subtraction of books and the curse with it.

those that are into that lie like i was are condemned already then as they will hear that and recieve it and support such things.
but i am forgiven.

Yep you can be forgiven. The Bible never says that you cant

 

[jasoncran]

when you make that statement like that, on the addition or subtraction of books and the curse with it.

those that are into that lie like i was are condemned already then as they will hear that and recieve it and support such things.
but i am forgiven.

Yep you can be forgiven. The Bible never says that you cant

not if i did it willfully if you accept the fact the osas is a lie. read hebrews 6 and then tell me that again.

what part of i did sin willfully , knowingly that i was doing it and it was wrong isnt included in that context.

for if we sin wifully and make a fresh the cruficaxation of the cross there remaineth no other sacrifice.. that's me what i did.

 

[shad]

shad have you ever been stuck in habitual sin?
how does on overcome something that its is easy for them to stop.

I believe most of us are guilty of fruit of Spirit because it is not clear sin. This kind of sin I am talking about when I say it is not clear.

But when it comes to clear sin like smoking, drugs, sexuality, lying, stealing and so on are clear sins and I know some one who did stop all of them in my family without taking time too long when she became His follower.

 

[shad]

="Danus says:
Not just mine, but vast numbers of biblical scholars with far greater intellect that you or I.

I believe in th Holy Spirit and I know He helps us to understand the Bible contextually without others' interpretation if we are truly seeking to be faithful.

 

[francisdesales]

I believe in th Holy Spirit and I know He helps us to understand the Bible contextually without others' interpretation if we are truly seeking to be faithful.

What Scripture verse do you base this "belief" upon?

It seems to me that the numerous people who are "truthfully seeking to be faithful" still disagree on the context of Scripture verses and what they mean - thus, destroying this concept, as pious sounding as it may appear to be.

Regards

 

[shad]

? You do not over come sin by your efforts.

I have said over and over that we can do it with God's help and that's what Jesus says.

Now you are referencing John 14:15. That is another scripture we can start on next if you'd like, but let's finish Rev 3 first if that's OK.

I am sorry Danus, but you are the one who is mixing up to justify your reasoning. That's why it is called out of context because it does not harmonize with other verses.

 

[shad]

I believe in th Holy Spirit and I know He helps us to understand the Bible contextually without others' interpretation if we are truly seeking to be faithful.

What Scripture verse do you base this "belief" upon?

Jesus says not to call anyone teacher, He is the only Teacher we have. I know you can look it up, Francis.

 

[watchman F]

when you make that statement like that, on the addition or subtraction of books and the curse with it.

those that are into that lie like i was are condemned already then as they will hear that and recieve it and support such things.
but i am forgiven.

Yep you can be forgiven. The Bible never says that you cant

not if i did it willfully if you accept the fact the osas is a lie. read hebrews 6 and then tell me that again.

what part of i did sin willfully , knowingly that i was doing it and it was wrong isnt included in that context.

for if we sin wifully and make a fresh the cruficaxation of the cross there remaineth no other sacrifice.. that's me what i did.

Hebrews 6 does not say anyone that sins after salvation cannot repent. It says anyone that walks away from their faith after receive the Holy Spirit, seeing vision, understanding their judgments ect... cannot or better yet will not repent. I think your problem here is not with changing the bible, but you misinterpret Hebrews 6.

 

[watchman F]

I believe in th Holy Spirit and I know He helps us to understand the Bible contextually without others' interpretation if we are truly seeking to be faithful.

What Scripture verse do you base this "belief" upon?

It seems to me that the numerous people who are "truthfully seeking to be faithful" still disagree on the context of Scripture verses and what they mean - thus, destroying this concept, as pious sounding as it may appear to be.

Regards

I disagree, many who claim to be faithfully seeking the truth, are simply trying to seek a truth that makes them comfortable.

 

[francisdesales]

I believe in th Holy Spirit and I know He helps us to understand the Bible contextually without others' interpretation if we are truly seeking to be faithful.

What Scripture verse do you base this "belief" upon?

Jesus says not to call anyone teacher, He is the only Teacher we have. I know you can look it up, Francis.

Tha'ts out of context.

It appears you believe we are to cast aside the entire Bible except for the Gospels...Shall I cite Paul on the numerous times he tells us to listen to what he teaches, both in oral and in written form?

Regards

 

[francisdesales]

What Scripture verse do you base this "belief" upon?

It seems to me that the numerous people who are "truthfully seeking to be faithful" still disagree on the context of Scripture verses and what they mean - thus, destroying this concept, as pious sounding as it may appear to be.

I disagree, many who claim to be faithfully seeking the truth, are simply trying to seek a truth that makes them comfortable.

How would you judge whether someone is doing that??

Regards

 

[watchman F]

What Scripture verse do you base this "belief" upon?

It seems to me that the numerous people who are "truthfully seeking to be faithful" still disagree on the context of Scripture verses and what they mean - thus, destroying this concept, as pious sounding as it may appear to be.

I disagree, many who claim to be faithfully seeking the truth, are simply trying to seek a truth that makes them comfortable.

How would you judge whether someone is doing that??

Regards

Take Danus for instance. He/she has been given multiple scripture that can be interpreted in no other way that to show one can fall away, and must endure until the end. Yet they simply refuse the clear meaning of scripture and force their opinion into it. this person is not truly seeking the truth. I dont care what they say

 

[shad]

Tha'ts out of context.

How so?

It appears you believe we are to cast aside the entire Bible except for the Gospels...

No, you don't cast out the entire Bible, just conveniently swiching around to justify your reasonings.

Shall I cite Paul on the numerous times he tells us to listen to what he teaches, both in oral and in written form?

Regards

Please do so. I can interpret contextually.

 

[francisdesales]

How would you judge whether someone is doing that??

Take Danus for instance. He/she has been given multiple scripture that can be interpreted in no other way that to show one can fall away, and must endure until the end. Yet they simply refuse the clear meaning of scripture and force their opinion into it. this person is not truly seeking the truth. I dont care what they say

Ah, the clear meaning of Scriptures for one is not so for another - I have learned to my chagrin when discussing John 6...

I am not sure this proves one is not being faithful to following God - but rather, one is faithful to a particular tradition of interpretation. Zeal is not necessarily a sign of 'correct Scriptural interpretation', as Saul of Tarsus admitted.

Regards

 

[francisdesales]

Tha'ts out of context.

How so?

Did you read the verses immediately preceding, Shad? Let's look at the context, because clearly, Jesus is not telling us to ignore other teachers - He says quite the opposite...

Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat: All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, [that] observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not. Matthew 23:3

The very end of Matthew has Jesus telling the Apostles to "TEACH ALL that I have taught..."

Clearly, Jesus didn't mean there He is the only teacher...

Now, the context...

Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat: All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, [that] observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not. For they bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay [them] on men's shoulders; but they [themselves] will not move them with one of their fingers. But all their works they do for to be seen of men: they make broad their phylacteries, and enlarge the borders of their garments, And love the uppermost rooms at feasts, and the chief seats in the synagogues, And greetings in the markets, and to be called of men, Rabbi, Rabbi. But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, [even] Christ; and all ye are brethren. And call no [man] your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven. Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, [even] Christ. But he that is greatest among you shall be your servant. And whosoever shall exalt himself shall be abased; and he that shall humble himself shall be exalted. Matthew 23:2-12

Jesus uses hyperbole to point out the hypocrisy of the Pharisees. There is a temptation to exalt oneself when they are a teacher (recall the role of a teacher/rabbi in Jewish culture in the first century...) Thus, at the end of the citation, Jesus tells the Apostles not to be exalted - but to be humble and serve. Jesus would give a clear example of this at the washing of the disciples' feet.

Ye call me Master and Lord: and ye say well; for [so] I am. If I then, [your] Lord and Master, have washed your feet; ye also ought to wash one another's feet. For I have given you an example, that ye should do as I have done to you. John 13:13-15

Jesus gives the example for the Apostles - as they would soon be teachers and examples for the rest of the community that He was establishing. The pagans lord it over others - but they shall not be as such. Jesus is indeed their Master - but not to exalt, but to serve them. This was the Apostles' model for when THEY would become Teachers.

It appears you believe we are to cast aside the entire Bible except for the Gospels...

No, you don't cast out the entire Bible, just conveniently swiching around to justify your reasonings.

Are you saying you conveniently switch around the Bible to justify your own reasonings? Because by taking the literal approach to this passage, you must ignore the context, as well as the other citations that speak of future apostles as being teachers of the faithful.

Regards

 

[shad]

Jesus gives the example for the Apostles - as they would soon be teachers and examples for the rest of the community that He was establishing. The pagans lord it over others - but they shall not be as such. Jesus is indeed their Master - but not to exalt, but to serve them. This was the Apostles' model for when THEY would become Teachers.

You have a point. You know, there are many, many false teachers. We have to discern true interpretation. Jesus says we know them by their fruit. Just because you have long history does not make you the right Christian organization. You have a plenty of bad fruit; persecuting your opponents is truly bad fruit. Jesus says to come out of Babylon.

Are you saying you conveniently switch around the Bible to justify your own reasonings?

No I dont switch around. I just go along with the whole context of the Bible.

 

[francisdesales]

You have a point. You know, there are many, many false teachers. We have to discern true interpretation. Jesus says we know them by their fruit. Just because you have long history does not make you the right Christian organization. You have a plenty of bad fruit; persecuting your opponents is truly bad fruit. Jesus says to come out of Babylon.

I am glad that you are open to my point.

As to the "right Christian organization", this is beyond our topic. I am merely addressing your comments on "being taught by Jesus", based on the text from Mt 23 out of context and ignoring other Scriptures.

Are you saying you conveniently switch around the Bible to justify your own reasonings?

No I dont switch around. I just go along with the whole context of the Bible.

Then I pray that you see my explanation is more in line with the context of the entire Bible, since Paul calls himself the spiritual father of the Corinthians, while Peter, Paul, and John refer to those of their congregation as children or sons - making them, by default, spiritual fathers.

Keep in mind the relationship between the Rabbi and the disciple in Jewish thought. It was HIGHLY regarded, and after all of this data and some thought, I hope you see that your initial concern on this passage does not say what you thought it did and will agree that you are misinterpreting it and applying 21st century concepts to a 1st century set of writings that simply did not consider "call no one teacher" literally...

To leaders of the Church - do not become exalted, as the Pharisees sometimes were. That is the intent.

Regards

 

[Danus]

="Danus says:
Not just mine, but vast numbers of biblical scholars with far greater intellect that you or I.

I believe in th Holy Spirit and I know He helps us to understand the Bible contextually without others' interpretation if we are truly seeking to be faithful.

Well the holy spirit does help us interpret the bible, but we can also look at the language and text. The order of words and having a reasonable understanding of the literary language that we claim to know. The bible was not written in secrete code. In this case you referenced Revelation 3, and Revelations 3 is clearly addressed to the church of Sardis. In fact it starts off.....1"To the angel of the church in Sardis write: That is pretty clear. That is one of the 7 churches that revelations addresses. That is a body of Christ.