According to Jesus...

[shad]

please shad if that the case why do we follow THE LAWS, for if we witness a murfer in progress and fail to act to save a life by calling the cops, we just assisted the criminal.

I have NEVER said that we "fail to act" when we see evil!!! Why does your type have to resort putting words in my mouth whenever I talk about this??

Jesus says "Don't kill". He does NOT say "Let murderers do whatever they want."

BUT if YOU kill a murderer, you are no different from the murderer.

 

[jasoncran]

please shad if that the case why do we follow THE LAWS, for if we witness a murfer in progress and fail to act to save a life by calling the cops, we just assisted the criminal.

I have NEVER said that we "fail to act" when we see evil!!! Why does your type have to resort putting words in my mouth whenever I talk about this??because i am mp and i train in this, guy with a knife will kill you in seconds if you dont stop him, if i slit your throat by the time you think to speak your dead. you heart will pump all the blood out in minutes before the cops get there.

Jesus says "Don't kill". He does NOT say "Let murderers do whatever they want."

BUT if YOU kill a murderer, you are no different from the murderer.

but how can you stop the murder. with kisses?sometimes you call the cop he has to stop the criminal with lethal forces, and btw you just contracticted yourself.

twice, if we call the cops and they act to murder that man or woman(by your definition).you defined murder as this we murder our enemies, the guy that is raping,killing you or your wife aint your friend but an enemy, so if the cop the by law and legal bounds defends himself and you, what by proxy are you?

 

[Danus]

Let's take a few of those scriptures and talk about them. That's my challenge to you. Give me three scriptures you like the most, that you think proves that Jesus says he's take back your salvation and let's discuss it. you pick them.

Revelation 3:5
He who overcomes will, like them, be dressed in white. I will never blot out his name from the book of life, but will acknowledge his name before my Father and his angels.

How about we go one by one? Let's discuss this verse first.

Hope you don't mind I've expanded it even further.

Revelation 3:4-6
4Yet you have a few people in Sardis who have not soiled their clothes. They will walk with me, dressed in white, for they are worthy. 5He who overcomes will, like them, be dressed in white. I will never blot out his name from the book of life, but will acknowledge his name before my Father and his angels. 6He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.

Dressed in white is a description of the redeemed. The opposite are those who have soild their clothes. The redeemed are those who are saved, who have accepted Christ in faith.

Question: who is he that overcomes? Overcomes what? Overcomes sin? No...only Christ can overcome sin and only by accepting Christ can we over come sin, not of our own effort. So he who over comes is he who accepts Christ in faith.

If we accept Christ in faith then we are saved. True? Can we loose it, and does this verse say that we can? Not directly.

It does say .....I will never blot out his name from the book of life, but will acknowledge his name before my Father and his angels. who again is "his name" referring to? Answer: The one dressed in white and walking with Jesus. True?

And who is that dressed in white again? The one saved. And who is saved..the one who overcomes......That's the one who is saved... Does it anywhere say that there is one saved and then he looses that salavtion? NO! Some are simply not save for the fact that they have yet to accept Christ in faith, but no where in this verse does it say there are some saved who have lost salvation.

You might want to say, or think, that those who have soiled their closed where once saved, but it does not say that. It's addressed to the church of Sardis, a body of Christ to which there remain unsaved, or not saved people. It is not individual deeds that this scripture speaks of but the deeds of a church body that are lacking.

Now, I'd like to hear your definition in as much detail or more.

Also, thank you for getting back with me.

 

[veteran]

then veteran reconcile hebrews 6 and if its lost then theres no point in teaching that you can repent.

cause by that verse being used in that manner you cant be saved more than once, its lost its done.

It does not need reconciling. We have to be able to accept what it's saying, plainly, and not try to make excuses. An evil tree cannot bear good fruit, just as you don't get grapes off a thorn bush.

Heb 6:7-12
7 For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God:
8 But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.
9 But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and things that accompany salvation, though we thus speak.
10 For God is not unrighteous to forget your work and labour of love, which ye have shewed toward his name, in that ye have ministered to the saints, and do minister.
11 And we desire that every one of you do shew the same diligence to the full assurance of hope unto the end:
12 That ye be not slothful, but followers of them who through faith and patience inherit the promises.
(KJV)

Show "diligence to the full assurance of hope unto the end"? Be not slothful? Follow those who through faith and patience inherit the promises? That's not about the idea of believing you're saved with no longer having need to repent to stay in Christ to the end.


John was not speaking to unbelievers here, but to those who believed on Christ.

I Jn 1:6-10
6 If we say that we have fellowship with Him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:
7 But if we walk in the light, as He is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanseth us from all sin.
8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us.
(KJV)

What's so revealing about the OSAS doctrine as a lie, is that many who believe it actually do regularly repent to Christ when they slip up in sin. If we literally stop sinning after belief and Baptism, there would be no need for later repentance for our slip-ups, and then the OSAS doctrine would apply. That's why 'some' Churches include another lie with the OSAS doctrine, the false idea that they no longer do sin. You can forget hearing Romans 7 preached in those type of Churches.

 

[jasoncran]

odd, it plainly says that if one can lose it then when they cant get it back.

meaning if i sinning willifully, then theres no repentance. so we dont sin with a will to do so at times, fully knowing that we are wrong.

i have done that, i knew being bi was wrong when i did it, i tried my best to ignore what the Lord said.

 

[shad]

odd, it plainly says that if one can lose it then when they cant get it back.

Yes, they can get it back if they repent. That's why it is important that we repent and know what the sins are by reading the Bible on a daily bases. Most of us are living in sin even very clear ones; this is the most problem one. If we are reading the Bible on a daily bases and devoting to serve Him wholeheartedly we will not have problems because the Holy Spirit will help what we are missing in unclear ones.

 

[shad]

Danus,

sinse you are asking more detail, I have to get back to you until later time when I have more time. thanks.

 

[shad]

What's so revealing about the OSAS doctrine as a lie, is that many who believe it actually do regularly repent to Christ when they slip up in sin.

An excellent point. But we should know that Christians who are devoted to serve Him will not have this problem because they are watching themselves not to sin on a daily bases. If we sin because of ignorance the Holy Spirit will cover it for us if we are wholeheartedly serving Him.

 

[veteran]

I've seen many believers use the idea of sinning in ignorance as a prop too, being one of the reasons they don't want to really know about the examples of sin in God's Word. They're afraid God's Word might convict them of sin. But it already has when they follow that idea too.

The Holy Spirit works with us, but doesn't cover our excuses. If we listen to The Holy Spirit warning us to not do a thing, there's no claiming ignorance if we go ahead and do the sin anyway. If we choose not to listen to The Holy Spirit warning us, that is to deny Christ's Power working through us. So we're caught either way, and still need to repent.

 

[shad]

I've seen many believers use the idea of sinning in ignorance as a prop too,

That is true, but some things are not so clear in the Bible whether it is sin or not; do we really need to worship God on Saturday instead of Sunday like SDA claim? How about covering womens' heads when they worship? I dont think so but we never know the truth about those things until we meet Jesus.

And How about the fruit of the Spirit? It is very difficult to judge by ourselves. This is the most difficult thing to judge when we are sinning or not. Only God can do it.

 

[shad]

Hope you don't mind I've expanded it even further.

Revelation 3:4-6
4Yet you have a few people in Sardis who have not soiled their clothes. They will walk with me, dressed in white, for they are worthy. 5He who overcomes will, like them, be dressed in white. I will never blot out his name from the book of life, but will acknowledge his name before my Father and his angels. 6He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.

Dressed in white is a description of the redeemed. The opposite are those who have soild their clothes. The redeemed are those who are saved, who have accepted Christ in faith.

Question: who is he that overcomes? Overcomes what? Overcomes sin? No...only Christ can overcome sin and only by accepting Christ can we over come sin, not of our own effort. So he who over comes is he who accepts Christ in faith.

Those overcomers are people who passed Jesus' judgment and strived to be faithful to Him wholeheartedly until the end.

If we accept Christ in faith then we are saved. True? Can we loose it, and does this verse say that we can? Not directly.

People who accept Him are required to love Jesus until the end. What does Jesus say about it? He says "if you love Me, keep my commandments."

It does say .....I will never blot out his name from the book of life, but will acknowledge his name before my Father and his angels. who again is "his name" referring to? Answer: The one dressed in white and walking with Jesus. True?

Yes, they are overcomers.

 

[shad]

And who is that dressed in white again? The one saved. And who is saved..the one who overcomes......That's the one who is saved... Does it anywhere say that there is one saved and then he looses that salavtion? NO! Some are simply not save for the fact that they have yet to accept Christ in faith, but no where in this verse does it say there are some saved who have lost salvation.

When Jesus judges, some people will be blotted out if they do not overcome. That's what Jesus says.

You might want to say, or think, that those who have soiled their closed where once saved, but it does not say that. It's addressed to the church of Sardis, a body of Christ to which there remain unsaved, or not saved people. It is not individual deeds that this scripture speaks of but the deeds of a church body that are lacking.

This is your out of context assumption.

 

[Danus]

When Jesus judges, some people will be blotted out if they do not overcome. That's what Jesus says.

NO! read it again please. I will never blot out his name from the book of life, but will acknowledge his name before my Father and his angels.

If it said what you say it says, it would read something like this

"I will blot out his name from the book of life."

 

[Danus]

You might want to say, or think, that those who have soiled their closed where once saved, but it does not say that. It's addressed to the church of Sardis, a body of Christ to which there remain unsaved, or not saved people. It is not individual deeds that this scripture speaks of but the deeds of a church body that are lacking.

This is your out of context assumption.

Not just mine, but vast numbers of biblical scholars with far greater intellect that you or I.

 

[jasoncran]

shad have you ever been stuck in habitual sin?
how does on overcome something that its is easy for them to stop.

 

[Danus]

Those overcomers are people who passed Jesus' judgment and strived to be faithful to Him wholeheartedly until the end.

? You do not over come sin by your efforts. Only Christ can over come sin. You then can overcome sin through Christ, with Christ in you, by accepting Christ. It's Christ that does the job, the work, not you. This is a basic biblical fact.

People who accept Him are required to love Jesus until the end. What does Jesus say about it? He says "if you love Me, keep my commandments."

Now you are referencing John 14:15. That is another scripture we can start on next if you'd like, but let's finish Rev 3 first if that's OK.

 

[watchman F]

When Jesus judges, some people will be blotted out if they do not overcome. That's what Jesus says.

NO! read it again please. I will never blot out his name from the book of life, but will acknowledge his name before my Father and his angels.

If it said what you say it says, it would read something like this

"I will blot out his name from the book of life."

Revelation 22:19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book

Explain this verse away Danus.

 

[jasoncran]

he was never there in the first place.
by your thinking i cant be saved nor all lbgt that read their bibles, and chruches that allow that sin. they deny those verses on that sin by either not preaching them or modifyind the bible.

i did that to a degree.

 

[watchman F]

he was never there in the first place.

You not take away from someone something they never had

by your thinking i cant be saved nor all lbgt that read their bibles, and chruches that allow that sin. they deny those verses on that sin by either not preaching them or modifyind the bible

You do not have to modify the Bible to allow gays to be saved. I am not sure what you are talking about?????

 

[jasoncran]

he was never there in the first place.

You not take away from someone something they never had.

by your thinking i cant be saved nor all lbgt that read their bibles, and chruches that allow that sin. they deny those verses on that sin by either not preaching them or modifyind the bible

You do not have to modify the Bible to allow gays to be saved. I am not sure what you are talking about?????

in order to allow them to continue in sin. and think that god wont judge gays you do!