Adam and Eve were created flawed.

[Deavonreye]

Did Adam and Eve have an understanding/knowledge of what it meant to "be disobedient"?

 

[stovebolts]

Did Adam and Eve have an understanding/knowledge of what it meant to "be disobedient"?

Genesis 2:16-17 And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

Genesis 3:2-3 And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden: But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.

They understood what they were supposed to do and what they were not supposed to do, so yes, they knew what disobedience was, they simply had not yet experienced it...
To understand obedience, is to understand disobedience.

 

[Elijah674]

Genesis 2:16-17 And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

Genesis 3:2-3 And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden: But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.

They understood what they were supposed to do and what they were not supposed to do, so yes, they knew what disobedience was, they simply had not yet experienced it...
To understand obedience, is to understand disobedience.

Do you think that God would create Adam & Eve as babes in maturity & then leave them without any knowledge in their very first 7th day sabbath sermon next day, without prior warning? Eccl. 1:9-10 & Eccl. 3:15 tells me that all of us have been warned & know about the serpent of Rev. 12 & disobedience?

I even believe that there was way more given verbally than we understand that did indeed come from the Words of God directly, which is believed by me because of what came to pass after the fact according to the Eccl. verses. Christ even documented Isa. 5:4.. 'What could have been done more to My vineyard, that I have done for it?'

So, 'i' agree with you on this. (I think?;))

And off topic. I finally got your garage & car down to size! We updated Windows Internet Explorer & that even spread out this 'message page' to the right size for posting. About an extra 1" width.

--Elijah

 

[stovebolts]

So, 'i' agree with you on this. (I think?;))

And off topic. I finally got your garage & car down to size! We updated Windows Internet Explorer & that even spread out this 'message page' to the right size for posting. About an extra 1" width.

--Elijah

You know I love ya Brother
Glad ya got things working a bit better... but that isn't my garage and I hope to post a picture of of the car in my garage soon. If you're in Michigan next year, me and you will go on one thrill of a ride and relive some of our "days of thunder" ;)

 

[savedbygrace57]

Adam and Eve were created just right for Gods eternal purpose.

 

[Mike]

I was listening to R C Sproul's daily show on the way to a conference today. I had to get out of the car at a critical part, but he was talking about the question of whether God created evil, and related it to Adam & Eve. His position on the matter was that Christians should start a response by being honest and saying, "I don't know. No on truly knows. But, it's not critical to know."

He was part way through pointing out one theological position when I had to get out of my car. This position was that if God created a perfectly, I mean perfectly, sinless being, He would have been creating in essence "another god". To be a being 100% void of any flaw would be to create something perfectly of His nature. This being would need to be subject to Him, but would share His very nature, which creates sort of a paradox.

I just found this interesting.

 

[Lloyd]

apple?

haha.. fruit, fruit salad, pineapple, you know what I meant! :D

 

[Lloyd]

Lloyd, Stovebolts asked me to post some of my questions so he could address them, so I am. Why I ask them is simply because I personally believe that questions must be addressed. These OT accounts are suppose to point to the character of god, . . . and if questions arrise [for me], yet I ignore them, can I truly know for sure that what I'm seeking for IS what I could agree with?

Sure, I understand - no problem.

Take care..

 

[smaller]

I was listening to R C Sproul's daily show on the way to a conference today. I had to get out of the car at a critical part, but he was talking about the question of whether God created evil, and related it to Adam & Eve. His position on the matter was that Christians should start a response by being honest and saying, "I don't know. No on truly knows. But, it's not critical to know."

He was part way through pointing out one theological position when I had to get out of my car. This position was that if God created a perfectly, I mean perfectly, sinless being, He would have been creating in essence "another god". To be a being 100% void of any flaw would be to create something perfectly of His nature. This being would need to be subject to Him, but would share His very nature, which creates sort of a paradox.

I just found this interesting.

That was a very brilliant observation by Sproul.

It is not possible that God would simply recreate Himself.

The essence of creation demands that creation be 'less than God' and therefore LESS than Himself as The Sole and Perfect ONE.

In this equation Gods creation and deployment of EVIL for HIS SOLE PURPOSES is easy to tackle. The sum of all created things will NEVER surpass or usurp The Creator of ALL THINGS.

We HOPE that His Deployment of that power of evil IS for His Perfect Intentions.

And of course none of us are enabled to say what that may be or consist of.

enjoy!

smaller

 

[Elijah674]

I see it as Perfect & very good creations. (which are the for me.. God deals with NO 'created' Flaws) Lucifer in Eze. 28 & Adam in Gen. But created as freedom to choose. And the creation was all created in/mature as babes, yet perfect in all other ways. And it took time to mature if one would. I find Lucifer as the Lords First creation. (another subject) yet, he had a long time perhaps to fail in maturity.

--Elijah

 

[Deavonreye]

I find the comment from Sproul interesting. So, they really couldn't have been "made perfect" then. Therefore, on some level, they had to have been flawed. If "having free will" is that flaw, then it can be argued that "the fall" was preordained to happen, thus the necessary impliments were put in place to start the ball rolling, so to speak.

 

[smaller]

I find the comment from Sproul interesting. So, they really couldn't have been "made perfect" then. Therefore, on some level, they had to have been flawed. If "having free will" is that flaw, then it can be argued that "the fall" was preordained to happen, thus the necessary impliments were put in place to start the ball rolling, so to speak.

What many believers MISS entirely is that by God SPEAKING HIS BLESSINGS upon Adam, then THIS happened WITHIN Adam (while Eve was yet still within him

Mark 4:15
And these are they by the way side, where the word is sown; but when they have heard, Satan cometh immediately, and taketh away the word that was sown in their hearts.

Matthew 13:19
When any one heareth the word of the kingdom, and understandeth it not, then cometh the wicked one, and catcheth away that which was sown in his heart. This is he which received seed by the way side.

Luke 8:12
Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.

The SERPENT was also SET INTO RESISTING MOTION in ADAM. It was no longer just ADAM alone at the point of ENTRY of the SERPENT into the HEART of Adam.

God was NOT mistaken when He stated, ADAM WHERE ARE YOU?

That question remains a call from God to ALL of us.

IF you listen to the speakings of Adam and Eve post ingestion, you may also perceive the speakings of the SERPENT was already within them. It was NOT just 'them' alone.

The signs of the accuser was ALREADY within them both.

Only blindmen blame Adam and Eve. They ACCUSE them. This is the sign of the accuser IN ALL SUCH speakers.

s

 

[Elijah674]

I find the comment from Sproul interesting. So, they really couldn't have been "made perfect" then. Therefore, on some level, they had to have been flawed. If "having free will" is that flaw, then it can be argued that "the fall" was preordained to happen, thus the necessary impliments were put in place to start the ball rolling, so to speak.

Christ was the Second Adam & lived as Adam even after 4000 years of sin, using the same powers that Adam had at his disposal to remain perfect & sinless! He came not only to save some of His mature Obedient creation, but to also PROVE that His creation WAS NOT FLAWED! (to the Universe in ALL OF Eternity)

--Elijah

 

[Deavonreye]

I'm not following. . .. . . What do you mean by "using the same powers that Adam had at his disposal" and "also to prove that his creation was not flawed"?

 

[stovebolts]

Flaw
–noun 1. a feature that mars the perfection of something; defect; fault: beauty without flaw; the flaws in our plan.

2. a defect impairing legal soundness or validity.

3. a crack, break, breach, or rent.