Bible Study Adam: created perfect?

[Mike]

This is not the A&T where debates are appropriate. This is the Bible Study Forum where scripture is studied as a group collectively. If the arguing and debating continues, this thread will be closed or moved. Some of you who regularly participate in BSF debates will soon find that your options will be limited.

It's difficult to be as consistent as we'd like, but we find that we're issuing occasional warnings in threads that involve the usual suspects. I wouldn't spend 5 minutes in a home-based Bible study that launched into an argument with accusations that someone doesn't know or believe scripture.

 

[seve]

Gen. 5:1-3 This [is] the book of the generations of Adam. IN THE DAY that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him; v2 Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created. v3 And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat [a son] in his own likeness, after his image; and called his name Seth:

Notice: The book of generations of Adam IN THE DAY they were CREATED in the image and likeness of God... actually happened only AFTER Cain had already killed Abel... AFTER man begun to call upon the name of the Lord -Gen. 4:26. In fact, Cain generations were NOT included in this very important event.

Therefore, NOT everybody is created in the image and likeness of God.... unless one decided to call upon the name of the Lord to seek forgiveness and be born again in Christ - who is the express image and likeness of God, spiritually.

Of course, the above analogy is based only on my Biblical opinion.

 

[JCitoL]

.
According to Gen 1:31, Adam was completed just as God had in mind. However, I think subsequent events demonstrate that Adam wasn't created morally perfect, but rather; morally innocent.

Buen Camino
/

the human was created perfectly good and sinless, but because from the seven day thither God has fallen into a state of millennial somnolence/drowse and thereupon satan broke loose and enticed eve and adam converting them into occultists whereby it has established the sin(i.e. the system of spiritual/religious iniquity) into the world

Blessings

 

[seve]

1Cr. 15.44-46 …... There is a NATURAL BODY, and there is a SPIRITUAL BODY. v45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam [was made] a quickening spirit. v46 Howbeit that [was] not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

1Cr. 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood CANNOT inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

Thus, it is my Biblical opinion that.... Adam, being made a NATURAL living soul in the beginning ... flesh and blood... (corruptible body) …. could not have inherited the kingdom of Heaven…. had he not been redeemed by the Lord and given a spiritual body….. by being made or born again in the image and likeness of God, spiritually.

 

[farouk]

It was at the Fall that corruption (1 Corinthians 15.50) came into humanity, and this is why a sinless Human redeemer was needed to atone for sins.

 

[JCitoL]

the difference is in the situation, because God the Father fell into a state of somnolence/drowse on the seventh day, which (state) can last about no more than 5-6 millennia, and so the appearance of the "darkness" was able to come using the moment while God is in the state of somnolence/drowse, and thus the first humans fell into the hands of satan which made them spiritual/religious offenders via the seduction of "yoga" system, because the study of "the tree of the knowledge of good and evil", which is the "area" of the system Administrator of all universe(viz. God), is only sin for the humans, because their nature is to be only users, for there cannot be more than one Administrator for all universe, then it is not necessary, because even the One can alone take care of all souls of the universe, while the humans can only get into the spiritual/religious system of the "darkness" if they follow the direction of the forbidden "tree", that's why the difference between the first state and the second state is exactly in the God's somnolence/drowse which (as it already was mentioned above) can last no more than about 5-6 millennia

1 Corinthians 15:42-58 ".....the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption(viz. under the system of spiritual/religious iniquity); it is raised in incorruption(viz. beyond the system of spiritual/religious iniquity): It is sown in dishonour(viz. under the system of spiritual/religious iniquity); it is raised in glory(viz. beyond the system of spiritual/religious iniquity): it is sown in weakness(viz. under the system of spiritual/religious iniquity); it is raised in power(viz. beyond the system of spiritual/religious iniquity): It is sown a natural body(viz. under the system of spiritual/religious iniquity); it is raised a spiritual body(viz. beyond the system of spiritual/religious iniquity). There is a natural body(viz. in its first state the body may be held under the system of spiritual/religious iniquity), and there is a spiritual body(viz. but it can be released from the system of spiritual/religious iniquity). And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul(viz. an ensouled being that may fall under the system of spiritual/religious iniquity); the last Adam was made a quickening spirit(viz. the other state of human is the complete release from the system of spiritual/religious iniquity). Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual(viz. the first state was not completely secure), but that which is natural(viz. but it was the partially outstanding); and afterward that which is spiritual. The first man is of the earth(viz. in precarious situation), earthy(viz. the first state of human is the outstanding); the second man is the Lord from heaven(viz. the second state of human is the completely immune in the true Lord Jesus Christ). As is the earthy(viz. as the state of the first man "adam" was), such are they also that are earthy(viz. such was also the state of all other humans that were in the same circumstances as him): and as is the heavenly(viz. and as was the resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ, Who also is an ensouled being, but more than a human), such are they also that are heavenly(viz. such will be the state of all humans that will be completely released in Him). And as we have borne the image of the earthy(viz. as we have existed in the first state), we shall also bear the image of the heavenly(viz. we will also exist in the second state which is the last). Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God(viz. that nor the human being, neither the human soul can inherit the Kingdom of God without the intercession of the Lord Jesus Christ); neither doth corruption inherit incorruption(or: neither whatever satanic thing can wade in the Kingdom of God). Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death(viz. the vitiation/decline/decay) is swallowed up in victory. O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory? The sting of death is sin(viz. the achievement of spiritual/religious iniquity); and the strength of sin is the law(viz. the following/practicing of human(666) religion/spirituaity). But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ. Therefore, my beloved brethren, be ye stedfast, unmoveable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, forasmuch as ye know that your labour is not in vain in the Lord.",

Revelation 17:10 "there are seven kings(i.e. seven times): five are fallen(i.e. counted from the seventh day onwards 5 millennia will pass), and one is(i.e. and the end of God's somnolence/drowse will occur in the 6th millennium), and the other is not yet come(i.e. and the time during which the "darkness" will continue to reign (before God to wake fully up) in the sixth millennium will occur at last); and when he cometh, he must continue a short space(i.e. but it will continue a very short time)."

however this doesn't mean that the humans have no right to be spiritual servants of God at least whilst the duration of His somnolence/drowse continues

Blessings

 

[seve]

The implication that Adam died Spiritually when he committed his first sin, would mean that God - the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit were Wrong, when they made Adam an Eternal Spiritual Being (perfect) to begin with... only to “FALL†at the hand of the old serpent. It seems to suggest that God had no foreknowledge of this event when they first created Adam, in their image and likeness in the beginning. Such is not the case

When our Lord God told Adam that he would surely die IN THE DAY he disobeyed…. Adam did Not die physically within 24 hours, for he lived to be some 930 years old as shown in Gen 5:5. And definitely Adam could not have died, Spiritually because, he has not been created in the image and likeness of God at that particular time of event.

God doesn't make mistake and those who are born Spiritually in the image and likeness of God are born Eternally. IOW, no one “FALLS†or die in the image and likeness of God.

Of course, the above analogy is based on my Biblical understanding.

 

[reba]

THIS POST NOT DIRECTED AT ANY ONE MEMBER
​

We are making a strong effort to keep debate out of the Bible Study Forum.... Please keep this in mind as you post . Thanks , moderator​

 

[JCitoL]

The implication that Adam died Spiritually when he committed his first sin, would mean that God - the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit were Wrong, when they made Adam an Eternal Spiritual Being (perfect) to begin with... only to “FALL” at the hand of the old serpent. It seems to suggest that God had no foreknowledge of this event when they first created Adam, in their image and likeness in the beginning. Such is not the case

yes, the true God is not guilty, nohow He to be the causer/perpetrator of the (original) sin, because He has from the seventh day on fallen into a state of somnolence/drowse, and so He was not able to prevent the oncoming of the sin - namely this is the so-called point "sabbath"("shabbat") and hereupon the Fourth Commandment about the need of sanctification while God snoozes

When our Lord God told Adam that he would surely die IN THE DAY he disobeyed…. Adam did Not die physically within 24 hours, for he lived to be some 930 years old as shown in Gen 5:5. And definitely Adam could not have died, Spiritually because, he has not been created in the image and likeness of God at that particular time of event.

God doesn't make mistake and those who are born Spiritually in the image and likeness of God are born Eternally. IOW, no one “FALLS” or die in the image and likeness of God.

Of course, the above analogy is based on my Biblical understanding.

yes, it is not just about full physical death, but it is about a fall from Grace and a vitiation, because exactly this is the most general meaning of the biblical word "death" therein

Blessings

 

[seve]

The first chapter of the Bible tells the complete History of how God created the Perfect Heaven. God wrote our History, before the events are complete. At the end of the present 6th Day, God's Perfect Heaven will be Finished or brought to Perfection. Then, the prophecy of Gen.2:3 will be fulfilled.... and only then God will Rest.... that is, He will Cease to Create from ALL his works which he created and made.

Genesis 2:3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from ALL his work which God created and made.

Most Christians believe that the Father, Son and the Holy Spirit are still working today. In fact, Jesus is still preparing a place for us to live in (Rev. 21) - after this world is burned . Since all we have is "today", those who will live forever, must be born again while it is still called, Today. Today is the only Day of Salvation.Therefore, today, we still remain on the 6th creative day of God.

The Bible was written for the past, present, and future (i.e. Book of Revelation). It is relevant for today, and tomorrow. Written by the Supreme Intelligence, it's just too hard for unbelievers to comprehend. The only way to have a better understanding is to pray for wisdom and undertanding.

 

[JCitoL]

yes, all (the) creature/creation that God made in the first six days of the eternity was absolutely good and not a bit evil, but He somehow has fallen into a state of millennial somnolence/drowse from the seventh day on, insomuch He was even till now in that state, that's why there is a need of keeping the Fourth Commandment of His Testament which orders the spiritual servants to sanctify His creature/creation

Blessings

 

[enlightened]

1Cr. 15.44-46 …... There is a NATURAL BODY, and there is a SPIRITUAL BODY. v45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam [was made] a quickening spirit. v46 Howbeit that [was] not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

1Cr. 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood CANNOT inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

Thus, it is my Biblical opinion that.... Adam, being made a NATURAL living soul in the beginning ... flesh and blood... (corruptible body) …. could not have inherited the kingdom of Heaven…. had he not been redeemed by the Lord and given a spiritual body….. by being made or born again in the image and likeness of God, spiritually.

What? Adam owned the 'kingdom of heaven', for he was given the Garden of Eden, which is Paradise. However, once he sinned as was expelled, no flesh could ever get back in.
The image of the LORD is that of a man, and His Likeness is light. And it was this light which covered Adam and Eve's nakedness until they sinned and died spiritually, as was promised in the Commandment. And it is this Light which shall once again clothe the saints (Ps 17:15) at the resurrection, which is the rebirth (being born again of the Spirit).

 

[Deborah13]

Is God perfect?

This is the question that I asked myself when I decided if Adam was created perfect. He was created in the image of God.

So is God perfect? yes
Was Adam created perfect? yes

 

[seve]

The implication that Adam died Spiritually when he committed his first sin, would mean that God - the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit were Wrong, when they made Adam an Eternal Spiritual Being (perfect) to begin with... only to “FALL†at the hand of the old serpent. It seems to suggest that God had no foreknowledge of this event when they first created Adam, in their image and likeness in the beginning. Such is not the case

When our Lord God told Adam that he would surely die IN THE DAY he disobeyed…. Adam did Not die physically within 24 hours, for he lived to be some 930 years old as shown in Gen 5:5. And definitely Adam could not have died, Spiritually because, he has not been created in the image and likeness of God at that particular time of event.

God doesn't make mistake and those who are born Spiritually in the image and likeness of God are born Eternally. IOW, no one “FALLS†or "DIE" in the image and likeness of God.

Of course, the above analogy is based on my Biblical understanding.

Jesus Christ is the Image of the invisible God. Col. 1:15 In Him dwelleth ALL the fullness of the Godhead, Bodily (physically). Col. 2:9 Jesus says "he that hath seen Me hath seen the Father" John 14:9.

There are THREE (numeric) that bear records in Heaven, the Father, the Word and the Holy Ghost, and these three (numeric) are one (collective one -unity). 1John 5:7.

In order for one to "Fall".... or Die Spiritually in the image and likeness of God, one must first be Born Spiritually.

"Let US create man in our image after our likeness" requires that the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost operate in unity or agreement to make one a spiritual Being. This is confirmed by John 14:16-17 which shows that the agreement of "US" is necessary for a Spiritual Birth to happen.

When Jesus physically formed Adam from the dust of the ground becoming a natural living soul (flesh) Gen. 2:7 on the 3rd day – it was not a spiritual birth, since, Eve was not yet made from his rib (until the 6th day).... nor it included the agreement of "US" at that particular time. That’s why it would not reconciled to Gen. 1:26~27 (which shows both were created spiritually at the same time) nor it will harmonize to John 14:16-17.

 

[JCitoL]

Is God perfect?

This is the question that I asked myself when I decided if Adam was created perfect. He was created in the image of God.

So is God perfect? yes
Was Adam created perfect? yes

yes, this is so, adam and eve were absolutely flawless and sinless, but the bitter fate screwed them up, and so all later/other affected humans

Blessings

 

[seve]

Ezekiel 18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.

Therefore, IMHO, there's no one to blame for our own weaknesses and inadequacy except our ownself - not A&E.

 

[enlightened]

Certainly, Adam was created perfect at his creation, both physically and morally; however, he was not created eternal. This is the reason for the TREE of LIFE; for as long as Adam could access it, which he was freely allowed to do, he could live indefinitely; however, once he aws driven from the Garden and barred access, he could no longer eat its fruit, as so he began to die (as i believe).

 

[seve]

While it is true that Adam had accesss to the tree of life in the beginning, fortunately, he was NOT able to eat the tree of life at anytime during his stay inside the garden of Eden..... Had it been the case, he could not have died in his sin.... and the Scripture would have been in error.

Gen. 3:22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

v24 So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.

 

[Arch Angle]

I think, given the surroundings condition in which weformed, we were made pretty darn good. besides what is perfect? Whatyou wantz, or me-ze want? a rock is perfect.

 

[enlightened]

While it is true that Adam had accesss to the tree of life in the beginning, fortunately, he was NOT able to eat the tree of life at anytime during his stay inside the garden of Eden..... Had it been the case, he could not have died in his sin.... and the Scripture would have been in error.

Gen. 3:22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

v24 So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.

To believe Adam never ate from the Tree of Life (even though he did not know its name) is a matter of interpretation of v22; but, it may not be so. Consider: Adam was taken to the center of the Garden where the two trees were, and was told he could eat from all the trees in the Garden, even one of the two standing before him, but was forbidden from eating from the other one which the LORD GOD had to to have pointed to in some way and which HE called the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil. Now, by REV22:2-3, it must be understood that the Tree of Life, which appears as two trees, each tree growing on either side of the River of Life, are the same two trees which stood before Adam that day; therefore, they both appeared the same to Adam, and they both bared the same fruit at the same time, of which there are twleve, each growing in its own season. Now, to believe Adam did not take advantage of the tree he could eat from, even if to see what the forbidden fruit might taste like, given the fruits were the same, is again a matter of belief. Do you not understand that the Tree of Life was the seal of the promise to Adam of a perpetual life for obedience? or do you believe Adam was created eternal from the Beginning? Again, a matter of interpretaion or belief.
Personally, i believe Adam ate from the one he was allowed to eat from, and lusted after the one he could not. It is ironic though, that the tree he lusted for, he already had in the one he could eat from, as so he died to get something he already had! How tragic is that?
Please understand, the death promised Adam for sinning was not a physical death, but a spiritual one. I do not believe for one moment that the LORD GOD took Adam's life because he ate a piece of fruit. Would you do this to your child, or would the law allow it? No, i believe Adam Adam gave up his physical life because he deceived Eve into sinning first.