After Death/Now or Later - Rest/Judgement or Heaven/Hell

[Guest]

I asked my assistant pastor on this. I got some studying to do on hell. barnes will have it. that is whom he quoted.

a whole lot of jumping around.

btw job mentions sheol being a place to hide from god. how does one hide from God in death?

Job 14:13 There's a difference between hiding from your sins and wanting God to protect you from his wrath. You can't hide from your sins and God, but take note that there is no condemnation now for those that are in Christ.

 

[westtexas]

Ok, now I understand. I'm starting to learn the terms behind Hades, Gehenna, Hell and the Lake of Fire. Why so many different names to describe something after death?

Urk, here's a pretty good word study if you're interested.
http://www.biblestudymanuals.net/sheol_hades.htm

 

[jasoncran]

Job 14:13 There's a difference between hiding from your sins and wanting God to protect you from his wrath. You can't hide from your sins and God, but take note that there is no condemnation now for those that are in Christ.

not that. sheol and the concept of hell. job was wanting to seek death and spoke in error.

when jesus rose he took and has the keys of death and hell and the grave in hand.

 

[Guest]

2. Heaven/Hell is not 'filled up'...actually Hell in the sense of the lake of fire doesn't exsist yet.

But the lake of fire will exist one day, whether we want to admit it or not. Scripture does confirm torment forever and ever in the lake of fire. Revelation 20:10

First the righteous will be raised and reign in the kingdom with Christ for 1000 years. At the end of the thousand years the rest will be raised and judge. Nowhere do the Scriptures say that Christians go to Heaven.

There is something I am still confused with. When it says we will reign in the kingdom with Christ for 1000 years, isn't the kingdom they are referring too, in fact HEAVEN?? Why are we getting heaven and the new earth confused. When the righteous are reigning with Christ for the first 1000 years, Satan is still on this old earth. He is tied up but he still exists. The kingdom in which we reside HAS to be heaven!! No?

I'm a little confused about the old earth, heaven and the new earth between vs 7 and vs 8. If Satan is deceiving the nations, is he deceiving the righteous also? Why are the righteous reigning with Christ on an earth that Satan will be loosened again??? Where and when does this new earth occur? If Butch cannot answer, please someone help me understand. Blessings.

vs. 1 - An angel descends from heaven with a key and a chain.
vs. 2 - He binds Satan for 1000 years.
vs. 3 - During the 1000 years Satan cannot deceive the nations any more.
vs. 4 - Martyrs are resurrected to reign with Jesus Christ for 1000 years.
vs. 5a - The rest of the dead will be raised at the end of the 1000 years.
vs. 6 - Those in the first resurrection will reign with Jesus for 1000 years.
vs. 7 - Satan will be loosed at the end of the 1000 years.
vs. 8 – After the rest of the dead are raised, Satan deceives them again. There will be billions - like the sand of the sea. They are called Gog and Magog. Satan gathers them for a final battle.
vs. 9 - Satan and this host surround God's City. Fire comes down and devours them.
vs. 10 - Satan, the Beast, and the False Prophet end up in this lake of fire.
vs. 11 - Before this fire falls, a final judgment occurs.
vs. 12 - All the resurrected lost are judged.
vs. 13 - Another description of the resurrected lost being judged.
vs. 14 - Death and Hell [Hades-Grave] are cast into the lake of fire, which is the second death.
vs. 15 - All the resurrected lost are cast into the lake of fire.

Urk, here's a pretty good word study if you're interested.http://www.biblestudymanuals.net/sheol_hades.htm

All i would like to know is what's the difference between Hades grave and the grave we're in with tombstones when we die. Both are without consciousnesses and suffering.

 

[Grappler]

But the lake of fire will exist one day, whether we want to admit it or not. Scripture does confirm torment forever and ever in the lake of fire. Revelation 20:10



There is something I am still confused with. When it says we will reign in the kingdom with Christ for 1000 years, isn't the kingdom they are referring too, in fact HEAVEN?? Why are we getting heaven and the new earth confused. When the righteous are reigning with Christ for the first 1000 years, Satan is still on this old earth. He is tied up but he still exists. The kingdom in which we reside HAS to be heaven!! No?

I'm a little confused about the old earth, heaven and the new earth between vs 7 and vs 8. If Satan is deceiving the nations, is he deceiving the righteous also? Why are the righteous reigning with Christ on an earth that Satan will be loosened again??? Where and when does this new earth occur? If Butch cannot answer, please someone help me understand. Blessings.

vs. 1 - An angel descends from heaven with a key and a chain.
vs. 2 - He binds Satan for 1000 years.
vs. 3 - During the 1000 years Satan cannot deceive the nations any more.
vs. 4 - Martyrs are resurrected to reign with Jesus Christ for 1000 years.
vs. 5a - The rest of the dead will be raised at the end of the 1000 years.
vs. 6 - Those in the first resurrection will reign with Jesus for 1000 years.
vs. 7 - Satan will be loosed at the end of the 1000 years.
vs. 8 – After the rest of the dead are raised, Satan deceives them again. There will be billions - like the sand of the sea. They are called Gog and Magog. Satan gathers them for a final battle.
vs. 9 - Satan and this host surround God's City. Fire comes down and devours them.
vs. 10 - Satan, the Beast, and the False Prophet end up in this lake of fire.
vs. 11 - Before this fire falls, a final judgment occurs.
vs. 12 - All the resurrected lost are judged.
vs. 13 - Another description of the resurrected lost being judged.
vs. 14 - Death and Hell [Hades-Grave] are cast into the lake of fire, which is the second death.
vs. 15 - All the resurrected lost are cast into the lake of fire.



All i would like to know is what's the difference between Hades grave and the grave we're in with tombstones when we die. Both are without consciousnesses and suffering.

LOL...i thought only those who believe in the Son are given eternal life. Torturing lost people in unbelievable pain forever and ever is not what my God does...that sounds more like something Satan would do.

 

[Grappler]

But the lake of fire will exist one day, whether we want to admit it or not. Scripture does confirm torment forever and ever in the lake of fire. Revelation 20:10



There is something I am still confused with. When it says we will reign in the kingdom with Christ for 1000 years, isn't the kingdom they are referring too, in fact HEAVEN?? Why are we getting heaven and the new earth confused. When the righteous are reigning with Christ for the first 1000 years, Satan is still on this old earth. He is tied up but he still exists. The kingdom in which we reside HAS to be heaven!! No?

I'm a little confused about the old earth, heaven and the new earth between vs 7 and vs 8. If Satan is deceiving the nations, is he deceiving the righteous also? Why are the righteous reigning with Christ on an earth that Satan will be loosened again??? Where and when does this new earth occur? If Butch cannot answer, please someone help me understand. Blessings.

vs. 1 - An angel descends from heaven with a key and a chain.
vs. 2 - He binds Satan for 1000 years.
vs. 3 - During the 1000 years Satan cannot deceive the nations any more.
vs. 4 - Martyrs are resurrected to reign with Jesus Christ for 1000 years.
vs. 5a - The rest of the dead will be raised at the end of the 1000 years.
vs. 6 - Those in the first resurrection will reign with Jesus for 1000 years.
vs. 7 - Satan will be loosed at the end of the 1000 years.
vs. 8 – After the rest of the dead are raised, Satan deceives them again. There will be billions - like the sand of the sea. They are called Gog and Magog. Satan gathers them for a final battle.
vs. 9 - Satan and this host surround God's City. Fire comes down and devours them.
vs. 10 - Satan, the Beast, and the False Prophet end up in this lake of fire.
vs. 11 - Before this fire falls, a final judgment occurs.
vs. 12 - All the resurrected lost are judged.
vs. 13 - Another description of the resurrected lost being judged.
vs. 14 - Death and Hell [Hades-Grave] are cast into the lake of fire, which is the second death.
vs. 15 - All the resurrected lost are cast into the lake of fire.



All i would like to know is what's the difference between Hades grave and the grave we're in with tombstones when we die. Both are without consciousnesses and suffering.

LOL...i thought only those who believe in the Son are given eternal life. Torturing lost people in unbelievable pain forever and ever is not what my God does...that sounds more like something Satan would do.

 

[Guest]

LOL...i thought only those who believe in the Son are given eternal life. Torturing lost people in unbelievable pain forever and ever is not what my God does...that sounds more like something Satan would do.

You been saying this, the same thing for the past month avoiding what scriptures says. Nothing new here.

 

[Grappler]

You been saying this, the same thing for the past month avoiding what scriptures says. Nothing new here.

That sounds like the pot calling the kettle black.

 

[Guest]

LOL...i thought only those who believe in the Son are given eternal life. Torturing lost people in unbelievable pain forever and ever is not what my God does...that sounds more like something Satan would do.

Grappler, why don't you just make it easier on yourself. Copy and paste what you believe about God and hell into notepad, save the icon on your desktop. Then copy and paste the paragraph that you keep repeating to yourself into threads. That way you don't have to give yourself a headache thinking of anything new, just leave it up to others to figure it out.

 

[reba]

The question will you guys pay attention to copy and paste? I will try again...

2.5: Respect each others' opinions. Address issues, not persons or personalities. Give other members the respect you would want them to give yourself.

 

[Guest]

Nowhere do the Scriptures say that Christians go to Heaven.

Then where do the Christians who are still alive that will be caught up in the rapture being sent to? Also, why did Jesus descend into Hades to preach after he died if the sinners were dead and not conscious?

 

[John 8:32]

You been saying this, the same thing for the past month avoiding what scriptures says. Nothing new here.

Well, scripture says...

Mat 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

and this...

Eze 18:4 Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.
Eze 18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.

This is repeated by Paul in the N.T.

Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Eternal life is a gift, not something humans have inherently, God told Adam that if he ate of the tree he would die...

Gen 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

God did not say Adam would live forever, He said he would die. Who spoke the first recorded lie?

Gen 3:1 Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?
Gen 3:2 And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden:
Gen 3:3 But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.
Gen 3:4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:

You won't surely die, said the whispering enchanter.

Christ, Himself says He came to save us from death...

Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

People read this and skip right over the perish part...

perish:

G622
ἀπόλλυμι
apollumi
ap-ol'-loo-mee
From G575 and the base of G3639; to destroy fully (reflexively to perish, or lose), literally or figuratively: - destroy, die, lose, mar, perish.

The result of unrepented sin is death. Christ came to save us from death. We do not have life inherent, it is the gift of God.

 

[Butch5]

Then where do the Christians who are still alive that will be caught up in the rapture being sent to? Also, why did Jesus descend into Hades to preach after he died if the sinners were dead and not conscious?

The answer to your first question is the earth. Regarding the second Peter said He went and preached to the Spirits, not people that were in prison who were disobedient while Noah was building the ark.

 

[Butch5]

Ok, now I understand. I'm starting to learn the terms behind Hades, Gehenna, Hell and the Lake of Fire. Why so many different names to describe something after death? The Hades that you're describing has no conscience or life, and are awaiting judgement. I can understand that, but what's the difference in saying that the grave you're in under your tombstone is different than Hades grave. It's the same thing, with no conscience. I don't understand what you're trying to get across. Please further your argument. Blessings.

What I'm getting at is that Hades is different than Gehenna which is different from Tartarus. Gehenna is the Lake of Fire, Hades is the Grave. The KJV and maybe others translate all three words as Hell. This causes a lot of confusion.When you read Hell in the KJV one doen't know if it's Hades, Gehenna, or Tartarus. All three of these are different places. Many people, Christians included believe that when they die they have a spirit that goes one to another world. Many Christians believe this spirit goes and is conscious in the presence of the Lord. However, the Scriptures don't teach that man has a spirit that is conscious after his death. In Genesis we see man's creation, God took the dust of the ground and formed man and breathed His breath/Spirit into man and man became a living soul. Man consists of the dust of the ground and God's breath/Spirit. Scripture says when man dies his body returns to the dust and the spirit returns to God. There is nothing left to live on after a man dies until he is resurrected.

 

[Butch5]

But the lake of fire will exist one day, whether we want to admit it or not. Scripture does confirm torment forever and ever in the lake of fire. Revelation 20:10



There is something I am still confused with. When it says we will reign in the kingdom with Christ for 1000 years, isn't the kingdom they are referring too, in fact HEAVEN?? Why are we getting heaven and the new earth confused. When the righteous are reigning with Christ for the first 1000 years, Satan is still on this old earth. He is tied up but he still exists. The kingdom in which we reside HAS to be heaven!! No?

I'm a little confused about the old earth, heaven and the new earth between vs 7 and vs 8. If Satan is deceiving the nations, is he deceiving the righteous also? Why are the righteous reigning with Christ on an earth that Satan will be loosened again??? Where and when does this new earth occur? If Butch cannot answer, please someone help me understand. Blessings.

vs. 1 - An angel descends from heaven with a key and a chain.
vs. 2 - He binds Satan for 1000 years.
vs. 3 - During the 1000 years Satan cannot deceive the nations any more.
vs. 4 - Martyrs are resurrected to reign with Jesus Christ for 1000 years.
vs. 5a - The rest of the dead will be raised at the end of the 1000 years.
vs. 6 - Those in the first resurrection will reign with Jesus for 1000 years.
vs. 7 - Satan will be loosed at the end of the 1000 years.
vs. 8 – After the rest of the dead are raised, Satan deceives them again. There will be billions - like the sand of the sea. They are called Gog and Magog. Satan gathers them for a final battle.
vs. 9 - Satan and this host surround God's City. Fire comes down and devours them.
vs. 10 - Satan, the Beast, and the False Prophet end up in this lake of fire.
vs. 11 - Before this fire falls, a final judgment occurs.
vs. 12 - All the resurrected lost are judged.
vs. 13 - Another description of the resurrected lost being judged.
vs. 14 - Death and Hell [Hades-Grave] are cast into the lake of fire, which is the second death.
vs. 15 - All the resurrected lost are cast into the lake of fire.

The kingdom is from Heaven, not in Heaven. The way I understand it is that at the end of this age will be the tribulation Satan, beast and the false prophet,Christ returns and defeats them. At His return the first resurrection takes place. These reign on earth with Christ for 1000 years, Satan is bound. after the 1000 years those who lived through the tribulation and anyone born during the 1000 years will be tempted by Satan at the end of the 1000 years. After this the final judgment, the remaining will be raised and judged. The one not found in the Book of Life will be cast into the Lake of Fire.

All i would like to know is what's the difference between Hades grave and the grave we're in with tombstones when we die. Both are without consciousnesses and suffering.

They are the same.

 

[Guest]

The kingdom is from Heaven, not in Heaven.

I will agree with you on the rest of your posts, but this I will have to disagree. When a person is born again, the kingdom of God now dwells inside of them. Have you ever heard the term placing hands on people and healing them through Jesus Christ? The Holy Spirit that dwells inside of believers comes from Heaven! The kingdom of God is from Heaven and of Heaven, just the same as the Holy Spirit is from God and of God.

 

[Butch5]

I will agree with you on the rest of your posts, but this I will have to disagree. When a person is born again, the kingdom of God now dwells inside of them. Have you ever heard the term placing hands on people and healing them through Jesus Christ? The Holy Spirit that dwells inside of believers comes from Heaven! The kingdom of God is from Heaven and of Heaven, just the same as the Holy Spirit is from God and of God.

Hi Urk

From Heaven is different than in Heaven. I believe the kingdom of Heaven refers more to the coming reign of Christ. The statement "the kingdom of God is within you" was understood to means within your grasp by early Christians. I think Jesus was telling them the Holy Spirit was the kingdom of God. He said "is" which is present tense not "will be". The Spirit had not been bestowed when Jesus said that.

 

[John 8:32]

Hi Urk

From Heaven is different than in Heaven. I believe the kingdom of Heaven refers more to the coming reign of Christ. The statement "the kingdom of God is within you" was understood to means within your grasp by early Christians. I think Jesus was telling them the Holy Spirit was the kingdom of God. He said "is" which is present tense not "will be". The Spirit had not been bestowed when Jesus said that.

And the gospel message is that of the Kingdom of God. The message Jesus preached is the Kingdom of God being established on earth.

 

[Butch5]

And the gospel message is that of the Kingdom of God. The message Jesus preached is the Kingdom of God being established on earth.

I agree 100%

 

[Guest]

Hi Urk

From Heaven is different than in Heaven. I believe the kingdom of Heaven refers more to the coming reign of Christ. The statement "the kingdom of God is within you" was understood to means within your grasp by early Christians. I think Jesus was telling them the Holy Spirit was the kingdom of God. He said "is" which is present tense not "will be". The Spirit had not been bestowed when Jesus said that.

The kingdom of Heaven does refer to the reign of Christ, but he wants us to know that we don't have to wait until then. We can experience heaven now by the baptism of the Holy Spirit in our lives!! If you are a saved Christian and indeed have the Holy Spirit dwelling inside of you, then the kingdom of God is also within you. Luke 17:21 - Why do you think born again Christians have the power to heal people? The Spirit had not been bestowed when he said that because he hadn't died yet. Have you learned about the resurrection of Jesus? Blessings.