After Death/Now or Later - Rest/Judgement or Heaven/Hell

[Butch5]

The kingdom of Heaven does refer to the reign of Christ, but he wants us to know that we don't have to wait until then. We can experience heaven now by the baptism of the Holy Spirit in our lives!! If you are a saved Christian and indeed have the Holy Spirit dwelling inside of you, then the kingdom of God is also within you. Luke 17:21 - Why do you think born again Christians have the power to heal people? The Spirit had not been bestowed when he said that because he hadn't died yet. Have you learned about the resurrection of Jesus? Blessings.

Hi Urk,

I don't think Christians have the power to heal people. I explained the passage in Luke and how it was understood.

 

[VirginShallConceive]

Why do you think born again Christians have the power to heal people?

[video=youtube;-1PfkZqa_R0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-1PfkZqa_R0[/video]

 

[Guest]

Hi Urk,

I don't think Christians have the power to heal people. I explained the passage in Luke and how it was understood.

But they do Butch, all around the world things are happening that you're not aware of. The world is not confined to a forum. John 14:12. Have faith and watch. If you really wanna see something spectacular check out Darren Wilson dvd's, Finger of God, Furious Love and Father of Lights. Then get back to me. Blessings.

 

[Butch5]

But they do Butch, all around the world things are happening that you're not aware of. The world is not confined to a forum. John 14:12. Have faith and watch. If you really wanna see something spectacular check out Darren Wilson dvd's, Finger of God, Furious Love and Father of Lights. Then get back to me. Blessings.

Hi Urk,

I didn't say things weren't happening, I said I don't believe Christians can heal. I've seen God heal, I've literally and audibly heard a voice the stopped me from walking under a tree where a huge branch fell in front of me. I've seen miracles. However, those miracles were God's doing, not Christians. God may work through Christians but it is God doing the work. However, I don't see how this is the kingdom of God.

 

[Guest]

Hi Urk,

I didn't say things weren't happening, I said I don't believe Christians can heal. I've seen God heal, I've literally and audibly heard a voice the stopped me from walking under a tree where a huge branch fell in front of me. I've seen miracles. However, those miracles were God's doing, not Christians. God may work through Christians but it is God doing the work. However, I don't see how this is the kingdom of God.

Exactly, God works through Christians to heal people in the name of Jesus. You don't see how Christians healing others is a part of the kingdom of God?? Wake up brother!! What God are we discussing here. God the Father!!!

 

[Deborah13]

God has the power to heal and He does.

 

[Butch5]

Exactly, God works through Christians to heal people in the name of Jesus. You don't see how Christians healing others is a part of the kingdom of God?? Wake up brother!! What God are we discussing here. God the Father!!!

God has done miracle from the beginning. Are you suggesting the Kingdom of God has existed from the beginning? Jesus, while on earth told His disciples to pray, "thy kingdom come," Why would He do that if it was already here?

 

[Guest]

God has done miracle from the beginning. Are you suggesting the Kingdom of God has existed from the beginning? Jesus, while on earth told His disciples to pray, "thy kingdom come," Why would He do that if it was already here?

Yes, the kingdom of God has existed since the beginning. Jesus being born and his life brings the kingdom into existence by flesh. The resurrection of Jesus after he died simply made it known to spread the good news. God came down and was manifested into flesh. This is the good news. 1 Timothy 3:16. God gave his son to die on the cross so we wouldn't have to endure hell when we die. God is seeking after those who are wanting a personal relationship with him. Thy kingdom come, meaning God, please invade this house, this life, this coliseum with the Holy Spirit NOW!!. If we call on the Holy Spirit to come down and fill our hearts with love, he will. We do this by praying. God the Father, his kingdom in heaven, the Holy Spirit and Jesus are ALL ALIVE RIGHT NOW!!!! Blessings.

 

[Guest]

The second aspect of the Spirit’s work in the Old Testament is indwelling, or filling. Here is where the major difference between the Spirit’s roles in the Old and New Testaments is apparent. The New Testament teaches the permanent indwelling of the Holy Spirit in believers (1 Corinthians 3:16-17; 6:19-20). When we place our faith in Christ for salvation, the Holy Spirit comes to live within us. The Apostle Paul calls this permanent indwelling the “guarantee of our inheritance†(Ephesians 1:13-14). In contrast to this work in the New Testament, the indwelling in the Old Testament was selective and temporary.

The Spirit “came upon†such Old Testament people as Joshua (Numbers 27:18), David (1 Samuel 16:12-13) and even Saul (1 Samuel 10:10). In the book of Judges, we see the Spirit “coming upon†the various judges whom God raised up to deliver Israel from their oppressors. The Holy Spirit came upon these individuals for specific tasks. The indwelling was a sign of God’s favor upon that individual (in the case of David), and if God’s favor left an individual, the Spirit would depart (e.g., in Saul’s case in 1 Samuel 16:14).

Finally, the Spirit “coming upon†an individual doesn’t always indicate that person’s spiritual condition (e.g., Saul, Samson, and many of the judges). So, while in the New Testament the Spirit only indwells believers and that indwelling is permanent, the Spirit came upon certain Old Testament individuals for a specific task, irrespective of their spiritual condition. Once the task was completed, the Spirit presumably departed from that person. http://www.gotquestions.org/Spirit-Old-Testament.html

 

[Butch5]

Yes, the kingdom of God has existed since the beginning. Jesus being born and his life brings the kingdom into existence by flesh. The resurrection of Jesus after he died simply made it known to spread the good news. God came down and was manifested into flesh. This is the good news. 1 Timothy 3:16. God gave his son to die on the cross so we wouldn't have to endure hell when we die. God is seeking after those who are wanting a personal relationship with him. Thy kingdom come, meaning God, please invade this house, this life, this coliseum with the Holy Spirit NOW!!. If we call on the Holy Spirit to come down and fill our hearts with love, he will. We do this by praying. God the Father, his kingdom in heaven, the Holy Spirit and Jesus are ALL ALIVE RIGHT NOW!!!! Blessings.

They are alive now, but that doesn't mean the kingdom is here. As I pointed out Jesus was here when told the disciples to pray that God's kingdom would come.

Can you give some Scripture to support what You've said?

 

[Butch5]

The second aspect of the Spirit’s work in the Old Testament is indwelling, or filling. Here is where the major difference between the Spirit’s roles in the Old and New Testaments is apparent. The New Testament teaches the permanent indwelling of the Holy Spirit in believers (1 Corinthians 3:16-17; 6:19-20). When we place our faith in Christ for salvation, the Holy Spirit comes to live within us. The Apostle Paul calls this permanent indwelling the “guarantee of our inheritance” (Ephesians 1:13-14). In contrast to this work in the New Testament, the indwelling in the Old Testament was selective and temporary.

The Spirit “came upon” such Old Testament people as Joshua (Numbers 27:18), David (1 Samuel 16:12-13) and even Saul (1 Samuel 10:10). In the book of Judges, we see the Spirit “coming upon” the various judges whom God raised up to deliver Israel from their oppressors. The Holy Spirit came upon these individuals for specific tasks. The indwelling was a sign of God’s favor upon that individual (in the case of David), and if God’s favor left an individual, the Spirit would depart (e.g., in Saul’s case in 1 Samuel 16:14).

Finally, the Spirit “coming upon” an individual doesn’t always indicate that person’s spiritual condition (e.g., Saul, Samson, and many of the judges). So, while in the New Testament the Spirit only indwells believers and that indwelling is permanent, the Spirit came upon certain Old Testament individuals for a specific task, irrespective of their spiritual condition. Once the task was completed, the Spirit presumably departed from that person. http://www.gotquestions.org/Spirit-Old-Testament.html

The NT says that Peter was filled with the Spirit at different times. So it seems that "coming upon" didn't change. However, I'm not sure what that has to do with the kingdom.

 

[Guest]

They are alive now, but that doesn't mean the kingdom is here. As I pointed out Jesus was here when told the disciples to pray that God's kingdom would come.

Can you give some Scripture to support what You've said?

Butch, what do you think the kingdom means to you. What does that word mean to you? Saying the Kingdom isn't within us is saying the kingdom is not a part of God the Father, the Holy Spirit, Jesus and Heaven. It's not the kingdom of a sun god or moloch or the pharisees that we're worshiping here. It's God the Father!! Do you know who God the Father is? What is your belief in who Jesus Christ is?

 

[jasoncran]

the kingdom of god dwells within men.

Neither shall they say, See here! or, see there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

lk 17:21

 

[Butch5]

Butch, what do you think the kingdom means to you. What does that word mean to you? Saying the Kingdom isn't within us is saying the kingdom is not a part of God the Father, the Holy Spirit, Jesus and Heaven. It's not the kingdom of a sun god or moloch or the pharisees that we're worshiping here. It's God the Father!! Do you know who God the Father is? What is your belief in who Jesus Christ is?

Hi Urk,

It seems you giving opinion. The Greek word translated "within" is also translated "among". The verse could easily and I would properly be translated the kingdom of God is among you. This aligns with the context. If you read the passage in context you'll find that Jesus was saying that to the Pharisees. Would argue that the kingdom of God was in the Pharisees?

 

[jasoncran]

actually if we aren't in the kingdom then why are his children?my church is premil/prewrath and they teach that the kingdom is within us.

im sorry if you are saved you a child of god and thus in his kingdom.that is what that means. we are adopted and part of gods family.

 

[Butch5]

the kingdom of god dwells within men.



lk 17:21

The Greek word translated "within" is also translated "among". The verse could easily and I would properly be translated the kingdom of God is among you. This aligns with the context. If you read the passage in context you'll find that Jesus was saying that to the Pharisees. Jesus was among them. Would argue that the kingdom of God was in the Pharisees? This is also the early Christian understanding of the passage.


Tertullian
But it is impossible either that the Pharisees should seem to have inquired of the Lord about the coming of the kingdom of the rival god, when no other god has ever yet been announced by Christ; or that He should have answered them concerning the kingdom of any other god than Him of whom they were in the habit of asking Him. “The kingdom of God,” He says, “cometh not with observation; neither do they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.”[43] Now, who will not interpret the words “within you” to mean in your hand, within your power, if you hear, and do the commandment of God?
Early Church Fathers - – Ante-Nicene Fathers: The Writings of the Fathers Down To A.D. 325.

 

[jasoncran]

fine I will use then the greek literal translation which says within.

or this analogy. if I leave America and live in france. does that meanI American no more? no it doesn't.it means that we are citizens of the kingdom.

I will use the entire verse

but first literal translated as the ylt does that and its meant to.

nor shall they say, Lo, here; or lo, there; for lo, the reign of God is within you.'

And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:
21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.
22 And he said unto the disciples, The days will come, when ye shall desire to see one of the days of the Son of man, and ye shall not see it.
23 And they shall say to you, See here; or, see there: go not after them, nor follow them.
24 For as the lightning, that lighteneth out of the one part under heaven, shineth unto the other part under heaven; so shall also the Son of man be in his day.
25 But first must he suffer many things, and be rejected of this generation.
26 And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man.
27 They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all.
28 Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed

now then they wanted to see a literal kingdom as that says. but its not. its in us. if you don't believe that you are in the kingdom as child and citizen and have no rights to the father then you have denied the faith.

Lo here! or, Lo there!" When an earthly prince visits different parts of his territories, he does it with pomp. His movements attract observation, and become the common topic of conversation. The inquiry is, Where is he? which way will he go? and it is a matter of important "news" to be able to say where he is. Jesus says that the Messiah would not come in that manner. It would not be with such pomp and public attention. It would be silent, obscure, and attracting comparatively little notice. Or the passage may have reference to the custom of the "pretended" Messiahs, who appeared in this manner. They said that in this place or in that, in this mountain or that desert, they would show signs that would convince the people that they were the Messiah. Compare the notes at Acts 5:36-37.

Is within you - This is capable of two interpretations.
1. The reign of God is "in the heart." It does not come with pomp and splendor, like the reign of temporal kings, merely to control the external "actions" and strike the senses of people with awe, but it reigns in the heart by the law of God; it sets up its dominion over the passions, and brings every thought into captivity to the obedience of Christ.2. It may mean the new dispensation is "even now among you." The Messiah has come. John has ushered in the kingdom of God, and you are not to expect the appearance of the Messiah with great pomp and splendor, for he is now among you. Most critics at present incline to this latter interpretation. The ancient versions chiefly follow the former

barnes above.

 

[Butch5]

fine I will use then the greek literal translation which says within.

or this analogy. if I leave America and live in france. does that meanI American no more? no it doesn't.it means that we are citizens of the kingdom.

I will use the entire verse

but first literal translated as the ylt does that and its meant to.





now then they wanted to see a literal kingdom as that says. but its not. its in us. if you don't believe that you are in the kingdom as child and citizen and have no rights to the father then you have denied the faith.


barnes above.

According to your argument then the Pharisees, not Christians are in the kingdom of God. Jesus made that statement to the Pharisees. Please show me where Jesus said it to believers

 

[Free]

Does any of this have anything to do with the topic?

 

[Guest]

Hi Urk,

It seems you giving opinion. The Greek word translated "within" is also translated "among". The verse could easily and I would properly be translated the kingdom of God is among you. This aligns with the context. If you read the passage in context you'll find that Jesus was saying that to the Pharisees. Would argue that the kingdom of God was in the Pharisees?

It's not my opinion, it's a fact based on the resurrection of Jesus. Yes I've heard before, within means among. The fact of the matter is that, it's both. When the kingdom of God dwells within a believer, the light shines outwardly and crushes darkness! Butch, have you ever tried preaching the gospel in a strip bar in Las Vegas? Light vs. Dark. What exactly is the good news that you're preaching? What are you gonna tell a world that is filled with sin and darkness?? If you look at the KJV version, it has 'within'. Within means within, among means the light that is in you shines brighter than the darkness in this world.

The kingdom of God was definitely not in the Pharisees. The Pharisees were religious bumbs, and guess what. Jesus pissed off the Pharisees because they didn't understand who Jesus was preaching about. God the Father!! Jesus didn't say the kingdom was in the pharisees, rather he was teaching them about where the kingdom of God lives through faith!! The Pharisees lacked faith! This was simply a teaching by Jesus. He wasn't speaking about the Pharisees spiritual condition, no. Rather, he was speaking too the Pharisees as in take heed!!!

What Jesus was really saying to the pharisees is that the kingdom of God is within ME!! ME, Jesus standing in front of you. When Jesus was teaching this to the pharisees, the pharisees didn't understand that all this time the kingdom was inside the body of Jesus. The pharisees didn't understand that all the pieces of the puzzle would come together after Jesus died! The pharisees didn't understand that if you have faith and believe on his name, you will be saved. Do you understand now? HIS body/mind/soul/spirit IS the kingdom of God! Do you see the purpose in the death of Jesus now? Blessings.

The kingdom of God is within you and also among you, but most importantly it's within you! Ask yourself, what do you think we're sealed with until redemption? The Holy Spirit!!!! Ephesians 4:30 - Who is God the Father to you, what is your belief in who Jesus Christ is? Study his resurrection and you will find answers.