"After the counsel of His own Will" !

[Who Says]

that isnt what you mean , one can murder , and its illegal but does that law actualy physically stop that act? NO IT doesnt. it merely provides punishement.

now then unless you can show me that God all the times stops these sins from happening. ie lies, rapes and murder. by the sinner and christian your point is moot. if i choose to break the laws of men or God theres consquences. But i choose to take that chance. THAT my friend is what i meant. God allows our actions. he punishes for our acts if violate that law. now then unless you can show me that he does stop acts by intervention in sin. your logic and point is moot.

Jason, you are not listening either. Why should I talk to you if you are not listening? You only end up misrepresenting what I said. So why should I say it?

 

[jasoncran]

Jason, you are not listening either. Why should I talk to you if you are not listening? You only end up misrepresenting what I said. So why should I say it?

you have one odd way of saying that God set limits to what we can do freely. if the law says the limit is 70 mph it doesnt stop me from physically breaking the speed limit. but merely sets the limit and and fine for breaking that limit.

that is what God does. free will to break his law is still allowed. he punishes us for doing that but warns us not to break his laws first.

now then i'm sure sam21, and eventide will see this simple explanation. limits to what can freely dont isnt what the arminists is saying. we still can act.

 

[Who Says]

you have one odd way of saying that God set limits to what we can do freely. if the law says the limit is 70 mph it doesnt stop me from physically breaking the speed limit. but merely sets the limit and and fine for breaking that limit.

that is what God does. free will to break his law is still allowed. he punishes us for doing that but warns us not to break his laws first.

now then i'm sure sam21, and eventide will see this simple explanation. limits to what can freely dont isnt what the arminists is saying. we still can act.

Do they act as God gave them their gifts to properly use? Are not those gifts then actually privileges if God can punish the abuse of them and even take those gifts away?

Here is a possible explanation for why you do not see it Jason.

You love as you know love but you do not understand or love as God perfectly loves.

Paul told us about the way God loves, 1 Corinthians 13:4 "Love suffereth long, and is kind; love envieth not; love vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up,
5 doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not its own, is not provoked, taketh not account of evil (does not suspiciously search it out);
6 rejoiceth not in unrighteousness, but rejoiceth with the truth;
7 beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things."

God being the foremost of what love is, God would not violate his own principles of love without good cause. So God loved Satan by trusting Satan and not impuning bad to Satan until Satan himself showed himself unworthy of that trust.

Likewise God did with Adam. God need not pry suspiciously into the future of anyone as there is nothing we can do that he cannot undo, even death.

Let's begin with just that point and take your questions one at a time from there.

 

[jasoncran]

Here is a possible explanation for why you do not see it Jason.

You love as you know love but you do not understand or love as God perfectly loves.

Paul told us about the way God loves, 1 Corinthians 13:4 "Love suffereth long, and is kind; love envieth not; love vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up,
5 doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not its own, is not provoked, taketh not account of evil;
6 rejoiceth not in unrighteousness, but rejoiceth with the truth;
7 beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things."

God being the foremost of what love is would not violate his own principles of love without good cause. So God loved Satan by trusting Satan and not impuning bad to Satan until Satan himself showed himself unworthy of that trust.

Likewise God did with Adam. God need not pry suspiciously into the future of anyone as there is nothing we can do that he cannot undo, even death.

Let's begin with just that point and take your questions one at a time from there.

first off being a former bisexual male. i had to learn what love is from God via his word.

where did i say that God damned us before we sin? where did i say that he judges us before we act? He allows us to act then judges us if we dont repent.

God undoes death,so he doesnt allows men to enter into hell? wheres that?

i do believe that god knows what we will do but allows us to do it anyway.that is what christ did on the cross. he knew who would listen and loved them enough to give the chance to repent and the same with those that reject. he let them reject them


i now agree with sam21. i have stated that before we cant understand predestation and what that is fully and werent meant to compleletely.

can you reconcile that verse with the idea of the verse that go like this

jacob i have loved but esau i have hated.

or where the lord tells racheal two nations are in thee. the elder shall serve the younger. so God didnt know that?

 

[Who Says]

first off being a former bisexual male. i had to learn what love is from God via his word.

where did i say that God damned us before we sin? where did i say that he judges us before we act? He allows us to act then judges us if we dont repent.

God undoes death,so he doesnt allows men to enter into hell? wheres that?

i do believe that god knows what we will do but allows us to do it anyway.that is what christ did on the cross. he knew who would listen and loved them enough to give the chance to repent and the same with those that reject. he let them reject them


i know agree with sam21. i have stated that before we cant understand predestation and what that is fully and werent meant to compleletely.

can you reconcile that verse with the idea of the verse that go like this

jacob i have loved but esau i have hated.

or where the lord tells racheal two nations are in thee. the elder shall serve the younger. so God didnt know that?

Are you exercising that love you learned about if you are looking to find offense in what I am saying? Do you not see that such offense is imagined?

Of those you spoke about or even of yourself if you do as they, Do they act as God gave them their gifts to properly use? Are not those gifts then actually privileges if God can punish the abuse of them and even take those gifts away?

Do you know the difference between a priviledge and a freedom?

 

[jasoncran]

Are you exercising that love you learned about if you are looking to find offense in what I am saying? Do you not see that such offense is imagined?

Of those you spoke about or even of yourself if you do as they, Do they act as God gave them their gifts to properly use? Are not those gifts then actually privileges if God can punish the abuse of them and even take those gifts away?

Do you know the difference between a priviledge and a freedom?

i know the difference. you seem to picking an argument over theological hairs. no, i was that dysfunctional. one just doenst repent from male attractions and just love women without some healing taking place, and that takes a long time.

agian God lets us reject him as that is his nature. he lets us reject him for a reason. to demonstrate to the rest or us as we reap what we sow. also, that he is good if we choose to repent as his mercy endures forever.

now then unto my statement did God not know what esau would do and jacob? and btw that word hate isnt hate is we know it to be but rather love less as in prefered jacob over esau because of esau actions!

 

[Who Says]

i know the difference. you seem to picking an argument over theological hairs. no, i was that dysfunctional. one just doenst repent from male attractions and just love women without some healing taking place, and that takes a long time.

I commend your courage in revealing that. It is nothing but another manifestation of the confusion sin has brought into our lives. So it makes you no worse than any other sinner whom God is very willing to forgive.

However you are imagining that I seek to pick a fight. Therefore I politely ask you if you would feel better not to talk with me? I would respect that as it is not my intentions to anger you or insult you.

agian God lets us reject him as that is his nature. he lets us reject him for a reason. to demonstrate to the rest or us as we reap what we sow. also, that he is good if we choose to repent as his mercy endures forever.

We already did reject him in Adam, Jason. We were all confined under Adam's sin which means he could have just destroyed us. But his love was gracious to us and so he allowed us to be born that we might have our own say in the matter as to whether we agree with Adam's choice. And that requires he let wicked ones live for a while that he can give their children that same chance to choose for themselves if they agree or disagree with the choice of their fathers.

When God destroyed those nations that he did, he did so having the power over death to resurrect the not truly wicked among them. They will be in the resurrection of the unrighteous to have that one chance to agree or disagree during the thousand year reign of Christ. But God had to remove them out of the way of the line through which the seed to save all would come else they would have destroyed that line before it could produce that seed.

So you see Jason, God has everything well covered. It is only what you do not know that confuses you about what he is doing.

now then unto my statement did God not know what esau would do and jacob? and btw that word hate isnt hate is we know it to be but rather love less as in prefered jacob over esau because of esau actions!

You are right about the meaning of the word hate there. That is good that you see that. It is hate as an action of loving less. And that is because love is also principally an action and not just an emotion.

Did God know? Not necessarily. Paul said that God made the choice between them to show us that it does not come by inheritance rights of fleshly birth but by God's choosing.

Romans 9:10 And not only this; but when Rebecca also had conceived by one, even by our father Isaac;
11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;)
12 It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.
13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.
14 ¶What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.

 

[jasoncran]

I commend your courage in revealing that. It is nothing but another manifestation of the confusion sin has brought into our lives. So it makes you no worse than any other sinner whom God is very willing to forgive.

However you are imagining that I seek to pick a fight. Therefore I politely ask you if you would feel better not to talk with me? I would respect that as it is not my intentions to anger you or insult you.



We already did reject him in Adam, Jason. We were all confined under Adam's sin which means he could have just destroyed us. But his love was gracious to us and so he allowed us to be born that we might have our own say in the matter as to whether we agree with Adam's choice. And that requires he let wicked ones live for a while that he can give their children that same chance to choose for themselves if they agree or disagree with the choice of their fathers.

When God destroyed those nations that he did, he did so having the power over death to resurrect the not truly wicked among them. They will be in the resurrection of the unrighteous to have that one chance to agree or disagree during the thousand year reign of Christ. But God had to remove them out of the way of the line through which the seed to save all would come else they would have destroyed that line before it could produce that seed.

So you see Jason, God has everything well covered. It is only what you do not know that confuses you about what he is doing.



You are right about the meaning of the word hate there. That is good that you see that. It is hate as an action of loving less. And that is because love is also principally an action and not just an emotion.

Did God know? Not necessarily. Paul said that God made the choice between them to show us that it does not come by inheritance rights of fleshly birth but by God's choosing.

Romans 9:10 And not only this; but when Rebecca also had conceived by one, even by our father Isaac;
11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;)
12 It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.
13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.
14 ¶What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.

whom he foreknew he predestined. that is also stated by paul.

so God isnt all knowing that he doesnt see the future. i think he can but lets us hurt him. we have a choice. when i came to christ. i heard his voice a week before i repented. i clearly knew that he was talking to me. i rejected him till i was ready and the lord readied me but he did let me reject him.

i think you say we dont have the power to do good or choice freely based on the idea of total depravity. while i agree on that part. does god condemn us then he doesnt at first give the space to repent via some type of confration where you know that you are a sinner.

 

[Hitch]

When God destroyed those nations that he did, he did so having the power over death to resurrect the not truly wicked among them. They will be in the resurrection of the unrighteous to have that one chance to agree or disagree during the thousand year reign of Christ. But God had to remove them out of the way of the line through which the seed to save all would come else they would have destroyed that line before it could produce that seed.

Nonsense

 

[jasoncran]

When God destroyed those nations that he did, he did so having the power over death to resurrect the not truly wicked among them. They will be in the resurrection of the unrighteous to have that one chance to agree or disagree during the thousand year reign of Christ. But God had to remove them out of the way of the line through which the seed to save all would come else they would have destroyed that line before it could produce that seed.

Nonsense

hitch pm me there is a matter i wish to discuss.

now then i didnt see this.no. who says, this is unversal reconcilation. we have one chance to repent when we hear the gospel now and then it was the isrealites who had the oracles and those that rejected him then dont get another chance.while i wont go into the millenial reign and why i believe that and what i think its for too much. i do think that its for those that never heard the lord when he just involved with isreal and also the early part of the church or whomsoever didnt hear the gospel to reject it.

i say this because of paul in wheres there no law theres no sin.

 

[Who Says]

When God destroyed those nations that he did, he did so having the power over death to resurrect the not truly wicked among them. They will be in the resurrection of the unrighteous to have that one chance to agree or disagree during the thousand year reign of Christ. But God had to remove them out of the way of the line through which the seed to save all would come else they would have destroyed that line before it could produce that seed.

Nonsense

Mark 6:11 And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear you, when ye depart thence, shake off the dust under your feet for a testimony against them. Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city.

You just do not fully comprehend God's love and lack a bit of other scriptural knowledge.

Not a biggie. You will get the opportunity if you do your best to love what is good and hate what is bad for now. That of course means caring to love.

 

[Who Says]

hitch pm me there is a matter i wish to discuss.

now then i didnt see this.no. who says, this is unversal reconcilation. we have one chance to repent when we hear the gospel now and then it was the isrealites who had the oracles and those that rejected him then dont get another chance.while i wont go into the millenial reign and why i believe that and what i think its for too much. i do think that its for those that never heard the lord when he just involved with isreal and also the early part of the church or whomsoever didnt hear the gospel to reject it.

i say this because of paul in wheres there no law theres no sin.

That is all that one chance. You just do not realize how it could be. But that is all in the Bible, too.

And those nations did not even have Christ preached to them.

 

[Hitch]

Mark 6:11 And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear you, when ye depart thence, shake off the dust under your feet for a testimony against them. Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city.

You just do not fully comprehend God's love and lack a bit of other scriptural knowledge.

Not a biggie. You will get the opportunity if you do your best to love what is good and hate what is bad for now. That of course means caring to love.

Right now love means pointing out heresy such as what you posted here;


When God destroyed those nations that he did, he did so having the power over death to resurrect the not truly wicked among them. They will be in the resurrection of the unrighteous to have that one chance to agree or disagree during the thousand year reign of Christ. But God had to remove them out of the way of the line through which the seed to save all would come else they would have destroyed that line before it could produce that seed.

 

[Who Says]

Right now love means pointing out heresy such as what you posted here;


When God destroyed those nations that he did, he did so having the power over death to resurrect the not truly wicked among them. They will be in the resurrection of the unrighteous to have that one chance to agree or disagree during the thousand year reign of Christ. But God had to remove them out of the way of the line through which the seed to save all would come else they would have destroyed that line before it could produce that seed.

I forgive you for saying that as I understand what it is you cannot see, for I was blessed to have seen it. That is why you do not panic me but I panic you. Your love yet has fear in it as it is not yet been made complete.

You will be OK if you do not allow it to drive you to wickedness.

May God bless the love you show.

 

[Hitch]

I forgive you for saying that as I understand what it is you cannot see, for I was blessed to have seen it. That is why you do not panic me but I panic you. Your love yet has fear in it as it is not yet been made complete.

You will be OK if you do not allow it to drive you to wickedness.

My God bless the love you show.

I have no doubt you see all kinds of things, perhaps proper medication will help. In the mean when I notice flagrant heresy like;

When God destroyed those nations that he did, he did so having the power over death to resurrect the not truly wicked among them. They will be in the resurrection of the unrighteous to have that one chance to agree or disagree during the thousand year reign of Christ. But God had to remove them out of the way of the line through which the seed to save all would come else they would have destroyed that line before it could produce that seed.


which you posted . I will identify it as such.

 

[Who Says]

I have no doubt you see all kinds of things, perhaps proper medication will help. In the mean when I notice flagrant heresy like;

When God destroyed those nations that he did, he did so having the power over death to resurrect the not truly wicked among them. They will be in the resurrection of the unrighteous to have that one chance to agree or disagree during the thousand year reign of Christ. But God had to remove them out of the way of the line through which the seed to save all would come else they would have destroyed that line before it could produce that seed.


which you posted . I will identify it as such.

You have glorified yourself.

You are the one doing this even here in your post due to your blindness:

Matthew 10:21 "And the brother shall deliver up the brother to death, and the father the child: and the children shall rise up against their parents, and cause them to be put to death."

Matthew 5:21 "You have knowledge that it was said in old times, You may not put to death; and, Whoever puts to death will be in danger of being judged:
22 But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother will be in danger of being judged; and he who says to his brother, Raca, will be in danger from the Sanhedrin; and whoever says, You foolish one, will be in danger of the hell of fire."

Jude 1:21 "Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life."

 

[jasoncran]

That is all that one chance. You just do not realize how it could be. But that is all in the Bible, too.

And those nations did not even have Christ preached to them.

yes but if they HEARD, the gospel or the ot ways too God then they dont get a second chance ie. sodoma and gommorah. those that died in the flood that heard as noah told them. the cannanite nations that heard of the works of the lord and could have done as rachab the harlot.or as the gibeonites(though they did in deception).

 

[Hitch]

You have glorified yourself.

You are the one doing this even here in your post due to your blindness:

Matthew 10:21 "And the brother shall deliver up the brother to death, and the father the child: and the children shall rise up against their parents, and cause them to be put to death."

Matthew 5:21 "You have knowledge that it was said in old times, You may not put to death; and, Whoever puts to death will be in danger of being judged:
22 But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother will be in danger of being judged; and he who says to his brother, Raca, will be in danger from the Sanhedrin; and whoever says, You foolish one, will be in danger of the hell of fire."

Jude 1:21 "Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life."

Yawn old worn out pentecostal type tricks dont work on me , and so ,not for your benefit, but there are always some newbies, I'll warn you again, when I see flagrant heresy like ;

When God destroyed those nations that he did, he did so having the power over death to resurrect the not truly wicked among them. They will be in the resurrection of the unrighteous to have that one chance to agree or disagree during the thousand year reign of Christ. But God had to remove them out of the way of the line through which the seed to save all would come else they would have destroyed that line before it could produce that seed.

this posted I will identify it as what it is.

huff&puff all you like

 

[Bonairos]

Wow! I just attempted to read through the entire thread as I have not been following it from the beginning (some 175 posts ago).

To be honest, I feel like I need a cigarette or an aspirin; both of which I open myself up myself to judgment. One for sinning and the other for lack of faith. HAHA!

Anyway, WhoSays - I’m trying to sincerely follow what you are saying. If you could, I would appreciate you summarize what you are saying in a paragraph; at the most two. Not from a defensive (in answering arguments) stance, but rather the theological point you are making.

I’m only asking you (to summarize) and not the others simply because they appear to argue your point (and I’m lost as to what it is). Not saying I will or won’t chime in, but it will keep me from having that cigarette or aspirin!


Be blessed, Stay blessed!

 

[Who Says]

yes but if they HEARD, the gospel or the ot ways too God then they dont get a second chance ie. sodoma and gommorah. those that died in the flood that heard as noah told them. the cannanite nations that heard of the works of the lord and could have done as rachab the harlot.or as the gibeonites(though they did in deception).

I will take that to mean that you do not desire to learn about then.

No problem.

PS/ Thank you for your prayer concerning my heath. That is loving of you.