An angel describes exactly how Jesus will return in the second coming

[Consecrated Life]

Your understanding then seems to be that there will be just small gathering of people to see Him when He returns , and that the vast majority of the world will not even know He has returned ?
Is that correct ?

The angel described only the manner of his return and so we cannot comment on the place or people receiving Him or observing Him be they few or many.

.

Wouldn't the purpose for which He comes to earth indicate how widespread His arrival will be seen ?
What is your understanding of the purpose for His coming to earth ?

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Wouldn't the purpose for which He comes to earth indicate how widespread His arrival will be seen ?

This is a good question. I don’t know. Might be and seems logical although knowing the time isn’t as significant as knowing it’s happened. That is, there was the beginning of thee most significant event in human history at His birth but when wasn’t as significant as that it happened. We actually don’t know when it happened.

What is your understanding of the purpose for His coming to earth ?

This is another good question. The scriptures around the parable of the wheat and tares indicate a removal of wicked people from the earth.

The angels will come out and separate the evil from the righteous 50and throw them into the fiery furnace. ESV

Again, this isn’t a battle but a gathering. Just imagine the world with all those who embrace evil removed. Instant peace and safety.

What do you think?

 

[Consecrated Life]

This is a good question. I don’t know. Might be and seems logical although knowing the time isn’t as significant as knowing it’s happened. That is, there was the beginning of thee most significant event in human history at His birth but when wasn’t as significant as that it happened. We actually don’t know when it happened.

This is another good question. The scriptures around the parable of the wheat and tares indicate a removal of wicked people from the earth.

The angels will come out and separate the evil from the righteous 50and throw them into the fiery furnace. ESV

Again, this isn’t a battle but a gathering. Just imagine the world with all those who embrace evil removed. Instant peace and safety.

What do you think?

Separating the earth's wicked people sounds like a worldwide event to me .
There would have to be some tremendous visual awareness throughout the world that such an event is happening/ about to happen.
This is quite the opposite of what happened regarding His Ascension, the reality of which was called into question immediately, and has been questioned until this day based on the fact of the only evidence being the very few people who witnessed it.
It does not sound to me like anyone will be able to deny the reality of world's wicked being taken out.
No need for witnesses with a massive worldwide event like that.
It is obvious to me that as we unpack what He is actually returning for some of your initial claims in the topic post fall by the wayside
The one claiming He will return alone instance.
Also I don't believe separating the world's wicked will be a "peaceful" operation .

"No horses. No accompanying army. No weapons. In fact, alone. Totally peaceful." (Dorothy Mae)

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Separating the earth's wicked people sounds like a worldwide event to me .
There would have to be some tremendous visual awareness throughout the world that such an event is happening/ about to happen.
This is quite the opposite of what happened regarding His Ascension, the reality of which was called into question immediately, and has been questioned until this day based on the fact of the only evidence being the very few people who witnessed it.
It does not sound to me like anyone will be able to deny the reality of world's wicked being taken out.

This has no bearing on the manner of his return. Of course what he does upon arriving is different than when he left same as all
of us doing things differently upon arrival somewhere than when we leave. That is always the case. For example, if I arrive by train and leave by train, it’s very certain I don’t do the same things after I arrive as before I leave. I still arrived and left in the same manner.

No need for witnesses with a massive worldwide event like that.
It is obvious to me that as we unpack what He is actually returning for some of your initial claims in the topic post fall by the wayside
The one claiming He will return alone instance.

I don’t see that. There’s no army with him but He does send angels who are always around to do a duty.

Also I don't believe separating the world's wicked will be a "peaceful" operation .

How so? Every description of someone being transported was peaceful. They more or less simply found themselves elsewhere. Hardly gets more peaceful. They are not handcuffed on the ground under protest and hauled away.

"No horses. No accompanying army. No weapons. In fact, alone. Totally peaceful." (Dorothy Mae)

The description is he sends angels to gather. No army. No horses. No weapons. No entourage.

 

[Consecrated Life]

This has no bearing on the manner of his return. Of course what he does upon arriving is different than when he left same as all
of us doing things differently upon arrival somewhere than when we leave. That is always the case. For example, if I arrive by train and leave by train, it’s very certain I don’t do the same things after I arrive as before I leave. I still arrived and left in the same manner.

For me it is obvious that in His return His appearance will show a power to exact justice and judgement unlike the world has ever seen:
Mar 13:26
And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.

The only person who has seen the Lord post-ascension gave us testimony as to how frighteningly obvious His power will be just from looking upon Him.
This testimony of is from one who ate, traveled, slept , as He walked the earth and saw His ascension as well .

Rev 1:17
And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me.

Nobody fell as dead men from fright during Christ's ascension ?

But when He returns in Power & Glory to exact justice in the earth, there will plenty of people falling as dead from the sight of Him.

For me this is stark and awesome difference .

 

[Dorothy Mae]

For me it is obvious that in His return His appearance will show a power to exact justice and judgement unlike the world has ever seen:

He will come to judge and scriptures say so. …separate sheep and goats…judgement Seat of Christ…

Mar 13:26
And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.

Mark 13 refers to the judgement upon Jerusalem in 70 AD.

The only person who has seen the Lord post-ascension gave us testimony as to how frighteningly obvious His power will be just from looking upon Him.

There have been many who have seen him. They weren’t scared. But He wasn’t just coming in judgement then which will certainly be his action upon arrival.

This testimony of is from one who ate, traveled, slept , as He walked the earth and saw His ascension as well .

Rev 1:17
And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me.

That was the Revelation of his coming in judgement. So yes, scary.

Nobody fell as dead men from fright during Christ's ascension ?

Those who have seen him had to ask who he was. They didn’t fall as dead either. His purpose makes a difference. He didn’t descend to judge at that point in time.

But when He returns in Power & Glory to exact justice in the earth, there will plenty of people falling as dead from the sight of Him.

Notice it’s just Jesus alone whose face is frightening….no horses, no swords, and no entourage. It’s just his face that it scary. That’s it. Doesn’t speak against COMING just as he left.

For me this is stark and awesome difference .

Yes I also agree. But the scary part is the judgement itself, not the threat of blood shed by a fully armed escort.

 

[Consecrated Life]

A further biblical detail given by Jesus Himself of the stark difference from his ascension and His return is that at His return He will be seen as far as the eye can see from east to west across the sky.
No proportional comparison to His ascension.

Mat 24:27
For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

 

[Consecrated Life]

The only person who has seen the Lord post-ascension gave us testimony as to how frighteningly obvious His power will be just from looking upon Him.
Rev 1:17
And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me.

Nobody fell as dead men from fright during Christ's ascension ?

There have been many who have seen him. They weren’t scared. But He wasn’t just coming in judgement then which will certainly be his action upon arrival.

The bible only mentions one person, John on Patmos, as having seen the post-ascended Christ as far as I know.
Who are these "many" you say the bible says have seen Christ post-ascension ?

 

[Dorothy Mae]

A further biblical detail given by Jesus Himself of the stark difference from his ascension and His return is that at His return He will be seen as far as the eye can see from east to west across the sky.
No proportional comparison to His ascension.

Mat 24:27
For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

That speaks to who will see, not how He returns. But there are a number of differences between coming and going in reference to Jesus and otherwise. We agree on this. What we do not agree upon is the manner of his returning, not what he does when he is here nor what is happening upon the earth at that time.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

The bible only mentions one person, John on Patmos, as having seen the post-ascended Christ as far as I know.
Who are these "many" you say the bible says have seen Christ post-ascension ?

Well, the apostle Paul had Jesus appear to him, but that was bodily, not in a vision as John did. Otherwise I know of many who saw Jesus appear to them, many of whom were not believers at the time. These are testimonies and they are all similar when it comes to Jesus. Many of these are Muslims seeking truth.

 

[Consecrated Life]

That speaks to who will see, not how He returns. But there are a number of differences between coming and going in reference to Jesus and otherwise. We agree on this. What we do not agree upon is the manner of his returning, not what he does when he is here nor what is happening upon the earth at that time.

His return appearing in the sky being as massive as the east is to the west bears no resemblance to His ascension which was only visible to a few people .

Mat 24:27
For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

 

[Consecrated Life]

The bible only mentions one person, John on Patmos, as having seen the post-ascended Christ as far as I know.
Who are these "many" you say the bible says have seen Christ post-ascension ?

Well, the apostle Paul had Jesus appear to him, but that was bodily, not in a vision as John did. Otherwise I know of many who saw Jesus appear to them, many of whom were not believers at the time. These are testimonies and they are all similar when it comes to Jesus. Many of these are Muslims seeking truth.

Paul testified only seeing a blinding light, literally.
Jesus spoke to him, but Saul never saw Him.
He was blinded and he also fell prostrate to the ground as John.

Act 22:7
And I fell unto the ground, and heard a voice saying unto me, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me?

Nobody present fell to the ground blinded when Jesus ascended.
The sight of the post -ascension Jesus coming in great power could not be more different than the sight of the one who ascended.
Just as He said He would .

Mar 13:26
And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Paul testified only seeing a blinding light, literally.
Jesus spoke to him, but Saul never saw Him.
He was blinded and he also fell prostrate to the ground as John.

Act 22:7
And I fell unto the ground, and heard a voice saying unto me, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me?

Do you think Jesus wasn’t there in that case? Why did he see a light at all in that case? (sorry about the bold)

Nobody present fell to the ground blinded when Jesus ascended.

They didn’t on the road to Emmaus either.

The sight of the post -ascension Jesus coming in great power could not be more different than the sight of the one who ascended.
Just as He said He would .

Mar 13:26
And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.

That is speaking of the judgement on Jerusalem around 70AD. The context is the destruction of the temple.

Now as he went out of the temple, one of his disciples saith unto him, Master, see what manner of stones and what buildings are here! 2And Jesus answering said unto him, Seest thou these great buildings? there shall not be left one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.

3And as he sat upon the mount of Olives over against the temple, Peter and James and John and Andrew asked him privately, 4Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign when all these things shall be fulfilled? 5And Jesus answering them began to say, Take heed lest any man deceive you: 6For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many. 7And when ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars, be ye not troubled: for such things must needs be; but the end shall not beyet. 8For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be earthquakes in divers places, and there shall be famines and troubles: these are the beginnings of sorrows.

9But take heed to yourselves: for they shall deliver you up to councils; and in the synagogues ye shall be beaten: and ye shall be brought before rulers and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them.


10And the gospel must first be published among all nations. 11But when they shall lead you, and deliver you up, take no thought beforehand what ye shall speak, neither do ye premeditate: but whatsoever shall be given you in that hour, that speak ye: for it is not ye that speak, but the Holy Ghost. 12Now the brother shall betray the brother to death, and the father the son; and children shall rise up against their parents, and shall cause them to be put to death. 13And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

14But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains: 15And let him that is on the housetop not go down into the house, neither enter therein, to take any thing out of his house: 16And let him that is in the field not turn back again for to take up his garment. 17But woe to them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days! 18And pray ye that your flight be not in the winter. 19For in those days shall be affliction, such as was not from the beginning of the creation which God created unto this time, neither shall be. 20And except that the Lord had shortened those days, no flesh should be saved: but for the elect's sake, whom he hath chosen, he hath shortened the days. 21And then if any man shall say to you, Lo, here is Christ; or, lo, he is there; believe him not: 22For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect. 23But take ye heed: behold, I have foretold you all things.

24But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, 25And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken. 26And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.

“Coming in the clouds” in the Bible means judgement that ends a people group as they knew it. The angel particularly avoided that phrase for that reason. That is NOT the second coming as that is NOT the same manner as He left.

That is, of course, where we differ. What you quote (out of context) does not match what the angel said, which is my OP.

 

[BB1956]

Yes I agree although logically how he returns is not connected with being ready. But this brings up a different point that I have always wanted to discuss in any case. How exactly do you see us as making ourselves ready? I have heard this my whole life and I wanted to ask those who say what one is to do. I have an idea but would be interested in your thoughts.

How to be ready? Continue to progress in love for God, continue to study his word meditate on it, continue to make disciples always having plenty to do when it comes to the work for our Lord Jesus. By staying focused on what the scriptures tells to do, you will be ready whenever he comes.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

How to be ready? Continue to progress in love for God, continue to study his word meditate on it, continue to make disciples always having plenty to do when it comes to the work for our Lord Jesus. By staying focused on what the scriptures tells to do, you will be ready whenever he comes.

I’ve noticed more and more how scripture places great emphasis on how we treat others. Jesus included how you treat others in being ready (“my master is delayed..)

I’ve also noticed how this is an unpleasant aspect of following Jesus. Recently in a different thread a few expressed the idea that sin is MAINLY towardsGod alone. I thought about this.

I think the root of this thought is pride. Of course there are sins that ARE only against God. But most of them are against man too and I’m fairly sure how we treat others is as important to God as how we treat Him. Most of us don’t mind confessing sin to God (since he knows anyway.) We DO MIND confessing our sin to others. That’s humbling. Confessing to God isn’t much.

 

[BB1956]

I’ve noticed more and more how scripture places great emphasis on how we treat others. Jesus included how you treat others in being ready (“my master is delayed..)

I’ve also noticed how this is an unpleasant aspect of following Jesus. Recently in a different thread a few expressed the idea that sin is MAINLY towardsGod alone. I thought about this.

I think the root of this thought is pride. Of course there are sins that ARE only against God. But most of them are against man too and I’m fairly sure how we treat others is as important to God as how we treat Him. Most of us don’t mind confessing sin to God (since he knows anyway.) We DO MIND confessing our sin to others. That’s humbling. Confessing to God isn’t much.

I don't agree that confessing sins to God isn't much. However you are right about how we treat others including unbelievers, but especially how we treat our spiritual brothers and sisters. The scriptures teach us that if you don't or can't love your spiritual brothers and sisters who you can see, it's impossible for you to love God who you can't see. Also the scriptures teach that we are to love our neighbors. Jesus told a story of who our neighbors are which Jesus said that a Samaritan who the Jews hate helped a Jew who was laying on the side of the road hurt. Both a Priest and a Levite passed by the Jew without helping him, but the Samaritan helped. This kind of love we are to have even for those that hate us, because when Jesus came he died for all mankind. The majority of mankind hates Jesus. We know this by the way they live their lives but still we are to love them, as Jesus loved them. We hate what people do, but we don't hate people.

 

[Consecrated Life]

Paul testified only seeing a blinding light, literally.
Jesus spoke to him, but Saul never saw Him.
He was blinded and he also fell prostrate to the ground as John.

Act 22:7
And I fell unto the ground, and heard a voice saying unto me, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me?

Do you think Jesus wasn’t there in that case? Why did he see a light at all in that case? (sorry about the bold)

Apparently you did not understand what I wrote
I wrote what Paul said, that Jesus spoke to him without making Himself visible
How could he have spoken to him without being there after all.

You had said that Paul saw Jesus .
He did not , that is incorrect.
Hearing is not seeing .
It is plain as the noonday sun what Paul said happened , and he does not say he saw Jesus.
Act 22:7
And I fell unto the ground, and heard a voice saying unto me,

 

[Consecrated Life]

The sight of the post -ascension Jesus coming in great power could not be more different than the sight of the one who ascended.
Just as He said He would .

Mar 13:26
And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.

That is speaking of the judgement on Jerusalem around 70AD. The context is the destruction of the temple.

Nobody believes that Mar 13:26 has anything to do with 70AD.
Nobody on this site, and no prominent theologian, or biblical scholar in the whole world you care to name believes that
That is why you cannot name another person in the whole world who believes that to be a reference to 70AD.
You are allowed to believe that by your lonesome of course, but I will stand with the rest of the Christian world that this is a yet to come future event being spoken by Jesus.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Nobody believes that Mar 13:26 has anything to do with 70AD.
Nobody on this site, and no prominent theologian, or biblical scholar in the whole world you care to name believes that
That is why you cannot name another person in the whole world who believes that to be a reference to 70AD.
You are allowed to believe that by your lonesome of course, but I will stand with the rest of the Christian world that this is a yet to come future event being spoken by Jesus.

There are theologians who see that 70 AD was the fulfillment. In some Bibles it says in the foot notes that the temple was destroyed as Jesus says in 70 AD. The first century christian’s thought so too.

You’re using the authority fallacy argument by the way. The majority of Jewish authorities thought Jesus was NOT the Messiah. Were they right because majority rules?

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Apparently you did not understand what I wrote
I wrote what Paul said, that Jesus spoke to him without making Himself visible

Where did Paul write that Jesus didn’t make himself visible?

How could he have spoken to him without being there after all.

Ok so you admit the ascended Christ was there right? That what I said.

You had said that Paul saw Jesus .
He did not , that is incorrect.
Hearing is not seeing .
It is plain as the noonday sun what Paul said happened , and he does not say he saw Jesus.

The similar thread in Rev and Paul’s experience was a light so bright you couldn’t see the face. Paul didn’t say he didn’t see anyone. Do you think Jesus was invisible? That’d be new.

Act 22:7
And I fell unto the ground, and heard a voice saying unto me,

Where is, “but no one was there?”