Angels are Corporeal, not spirits

[JLB]

We see the difference between Cain’s offspring and Seth’s.

Cain’s offspring lived in the land of Nod. Nod means wanderer. This suggests that those who lived in that land had wandered out of the Way of the Lord.
Those people, we are specifically told were craftsmen in tools and musical instruments and had livestock for food. Probably very attractive to the sons of Seth.

Whereas the offspring of Seth were those who associated themselves with the name of the Lord. Most likely led simple lives as farmers and shepherds. They walked in the Way of the Lord. As Enoch, the seventh from Adam and son of Seth had, whom God took.

I agree that the text indicates that the “giants” were there in the land of Nod both before and after the sons of Seth, or sons of God, decided to go after the daughters of the men in that land.

In so doing, they not only corrupted themselves but also their children.
They were yoking themselves together with those out of the way.
So God determined to wipe them all out.

Here is a review of Genesis 5.

By placing Genesis 5 and the genealogy of mankind from Adam to Noah, just before the Genesis 6 incident, we see the Holy Spirit indicating that no “sons of God” or giants (Nephilim) are mentioned from Adam to Noah.

This is the book of the genealogy of Adam. In the day that God created man, He made him in the likeness of God. He created them male and female, and blessed them and called them Mankind in the day they were created. And Adam lived one hundred and thirty years, and begot a son in his own likeness, after his image, and named him Seth. After he begot Seth, the days of Adam were eight hundred years; and he had sons and daughters. So all the days that Adam lived were nine hundred and thirty years; and he died.
Seth lived one hundred and five years, and begot Enosh. After he begot Enosh, Seth lived eight hundred and seven years, and had sons and daughters. So all the days of Seth were nine hundred and twelve years; and he died.
Enosh lived ninety years, and begot Cainan. After he begot Cainan, Enosh lived eight hundred and fifteen years, and had sons and daughters. So all the days of Enosh were nine hundred and five years; and he died.
Cainan lived seventy years, and begot Mahalalel. After he begot Mahalalel, Cainan lived eight hundred and forty years, and had sons and daughters. So all the days of Cainan were nine hundred and ten years; and he died.
Mahalalel lived sixty-five years, and begot Jared. After he begot Jared, Mahalalel lived eight hundred and thirty years, and had sons and daughters. So all the days of Mahalalel were eight hundred and ninety-five years; and he died.
Jared lived one hundred and sixty-two years, and begot Enoch. After he begot Enoch, Jared lived eight hundred years, and had sons and daughters. So all the days of Jared were nine hundred and sixty-two years; and he died.
Enoch lived sixty-five years, and begot Methuselah. After he begot Methuselah, Enoch walked with God three hundred years, and had sons and daughters. So all the days of Enoch were three hundred and sixty-five years. And Enoch walked with God; and he was not, for God took him.
Methuselah lived one hundred and eighty-seven years, and begot Lamech. After he begot Lamech, Methuselah lived seven hundred and eighty-two years, and had sons and daughters. So all the days of Methuselah were nine hundred and sixty-nine years; and he died.
Lamech lived one hundred and eighty-two years, and had a son. And he called his name Noah, saying, “This one will comfort us concerning our work and the toil of our hands, because of the ground which the LORD has cursed.” After he begot Noah, Lamech lived five hundred and ninety-five years, and had sons and daughters. So all the days of Lamech were seven hundred and seventy-seven years; and he died.
And Noah was five hundred years old, and Noah begot Shem, Ham, and Japheth. Genesis 5:1-32


So when we see Genesis 6 and the genealogy of ”sons of God” and “giants” (Nephilim) introduced into the scriptural narrative, we should take careful notice not to confuse the these with the human beings mentioned in the genealogy of Genesis 5.




JLB

 

[LeviR]

Here is a review of Genesis 5.

By placing Genesis 5 and the genealogy of mankind from Adam to Noah, just before the Genesis 6 incident, we see the Holy Spirit indicating that no “sons of God” or giants (Nephilim) are mentioned from Adam to Noah.

This is the book of the genealogy of Adam. In the day that God created man, He made him in the likeness of God. He created them male and female, and blessed them and called them Mankind in the day they were created. And Adam lived one hundred and thirty years, and begot a son in his own likeness, after his image, and named him Seth. After he begot Seth, the days of Adam were eight hundred years; and he had sons and daughters. So all the days that Adam lived were nine hundred and thirty years; and he died.
Seth lived one hundred and five years, and begot Enosh. After he begot Enosh, Seth lived eight hundred and seven years, and had sons and daughters. So all the days of Seth were nine hundred and twelve years; and he died.
Enosh lived ninety years, and begot Cainan. After he begot Cainan, Enosh lived eight hundred and fifteen years, and had sons and daughters. So all the days of Enosh were nine hundred and five years; and he died.
Cainan lived seventy years, and begot Mahalalel. After he begot Mahalalel, Cainan lived eight hundred and forty years, and had sons and daughters. So all the days of Cainan were nine hundred and ten years; and he died.
Mahalalel lived sixty-five years, and begot Jared. After he begot Jared, Mahalalel lived eight hundred and thirty years, and had sons and daughters. So all the days of Mahalalel were eight hundred and ninety-five years; and he died.
Jared lived one hundred and sixty-two years, and begot Enoch. After he begot Enoch, Jared lived eight hundred years, and had sons and daughters. So all the days of Jared were nine hundred and sixty-two years; and he died.
Enoch lived sixty-five years, and begot Methuselah. After he begot Methuselah, Enoch walked with God three hundred years, and had sons and daughters. So all the days of Enoch were three hundred and sixty-five years. And Enoch walked with God; and he was not, for God took him.
Methuselah lived one hundred and eighty-seven years, and begot Lamech. After he begot Lamech, Methuselah lived seven hundred and eighty-two years, and had sons and daughters. So all the days of Methuselah were nine hundred and sixty-nine years; and he died.
Lamech lived one hundred and eighty-two years, and had a son. And he called his name Noah, saying, “This one will comfort us concerning our work and the toil of our hands, because of the ground which the LORD has cursed.” After he begot Noah, Lamech lived five hundred and ninety-five years, and had sons and daughters. So all the days of Lamech were seven hundred and seventy-seven years; and he died.
And Noah was five hundred years old, and Noah begot Shem, Ham, and Japheth. Genesis 5:1-32


So when we see Genesis 6 and the genealogy of ”sons of God” and “giants” (Nephilim) introduced into the scriptural narrative, we should take careful notice not to confuse the these with the human beings mentioned in the genealogy of Genesis 5.




JLB

God’s angels in heaven never die, which means they are immortal, which also means they don’t sin. Because the wages of sin is death.
To be mortal means subject to death, which means subject to sin.

When men are raised immortal they are as the angels of God in heaven. They are not subject to sin or death.

If the ones raised immortal were subject to sin, they would not be immortal. Nor could stand in the presence of God.

The flesh we are born with is sinful flesh. The flesh we are raised with is not. And neither is the flesh of God’s angels in heaven sinful flesh.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

No, the grammar doesn't suggest such.

Gen 6:4 The Nephilim were on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of man and they bore children to them. These were the mighty men who were of old, the men of renown. (ESV)

The grammar suggests that the Nephilim were already on the earth "when the sons of God came in to the daughters of man."

In this chapter, the sons of God took wives FIRST in 6:2, the "when" in 6:4 is merely referring to that. You're contradicting the text.

Yes, the godly sons of men took ungodly women to be their wives, but the giants were already there. Not that "Nephilim" necessarily means giants.

No they were not. And Nephilim necessarily means giants because it does so in Num. 13:33.

"No other kind of wickedness mentioned in this specific context except the giants"? Do you mean except for, "The LORD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every intention of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually." (Gen 6:5)? Or what about:

Please specify what exactly was this wickedness, how was the earth corrupt. If it was just violence, then why didn't God flood the earth when Cain murdered Abel? And how were those other flesh "corrupt" (6:12)? What was the nature of their corruption?

The text suggests otherwise.

6:1-2 took place first. You're gaslighting.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

It's a legitimate interpretation and given everything else, it is the most likely interpretation.

No, it's a racist view against intermarriage, and it's the LEAST likely interpretation.

No, I didn't ignore anything; that is precisely my point. The verses say that there will be no marriage, which implies no procreation. Why? Because "they will be like the angels in heaven." That strongly implies that angels don't procreate, which means that they don't have the means to procreate with each other, never mind humans.

You're in denial. The sons of God didn't take wives in heaven, but on EARTH. Also, angels don't appear as any mythical winged creature on earth, but as ordinary men.

From there, the only way to support your position on the "sons of God" is that angels have the same creative ability as God--they can create ex nihilo; they can create all the necessary male plumbing, DNA, and everything else needed in order to procreate with human women. That is a massive stretch. Maybe you believe the Word of Faith heresy that we're all little gods, so therefore angels must be as well.

Procreation is not creation, you are making a strawman argument.

Not relevant.

It is utterly revelant when you quote Matt. 22:30 out of context.

For the reason above. It is a non-sequitur to believe that angels, another class of being altogether, have the ability to successfully procreate with human women, just because they can appear in human form.

How do you know they can't? Don't throw Matt. 22:30 at me, don't work, it's already debunked when you deliberatedly ignored the hard condition that there's no procreation in HEAVEN and in RESURRECTION, but there most definitely is procreation on earth.

What is this supposed to show, that since human men thought the angels were human men, that therefore the angels must have the ability to procreate? lol It simply shows that men thought the angels were actual men.

And how do you know they were not? They were not ethereal spirits or visions, they ate and rested in Abraham's tent (Gen. 18:8), that's hard proof of their physiological needs. Human form comes hand in hand with human physiology, you can't separate one from another.

In the end, even if the sons-of-God-are-angels theory is a possibility, it is not the likely interpretation because of the possibility that the sons of God were godly men and that angels don't procreate. That makes the latter the most plausible interpretation.

In the end, you're consistently justifying your own preconceived doctrine which actually contradicts the Scripture - sons of God are heavenly beings who get to present themselves before God, and they are satanic.

Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan also came among them. (Job 1:6)

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

You do realize that Ps. 82:1-6 came much later than Gen. 6, yes? What does Job 1:6 have to do with anything? You can't just go pulling things out of context and making connections without warrant for doing so.

I absolutely can because I abide by the principle of Sola Scriptura - let bible interpret itself. You're the one who pulls verses out of context with your flawed understanding. Haven't you read that all children of God in the NT are defined as joined heir with Christ who are adopted through the holy spirit? That doesn't exist in the OT, therefore "sons of God" are not the same, all of your "godly line" arguments are invalid.

For you did not receive the spirit of bondage again to fear, but you received the Spirit of adoption by whom we cry out, “Abba, Father.” The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God, and if children, then heirs—heirs of God and joint heirs with Christ, if indeed we suffer with Him, that we may also be glorified together. (Rom. 8:16-17)

For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. (Gal. 3:26-27)

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

It has nothing to do with being a hereditary trait, so I don't know why you keep making that argument. Godly people have a better chance of raising godly people, and on down the line.

I'm not the one making that argument, you are. "Down the line" is that racist argument which contradicts the Scripture.

The soul who sins shall die. The son shall not bear the guilt of the father, nor the father bear the guilt of the son. The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself. (Ez. 18:20)
“Neither this man nor his parents sinned, but that the works of God should be revealed in him." (Jn. 9:3)

Right from the start Cain's line was evil and Seth's line "began to call upon the name of the LORD."

Cain's evil was his own, so was Seth's righteousness, neither is a hereditary trait. Also, there's no distinction between Seth's descendants and Cain's, all were filled with wickedness except Noah, and you don't know whether his wife or his sons' wives were from Cain's line.

 

[Free]

Read it again.

There were giants on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men and they bore children to them. Those were the mighty men who were of old, men of renown. Genesis 6:4

The Nephilim were produced WHEN the sons of God came into the daughters of men.

Also we see the phrase …. and they bore children to them.


When the sons of God came into the daughters of men, the daughters of men born children to “them”.

Them refers to the sons of God who came into the daughters of men.

Specifically it was the giants who the daughters of men bore to the sons of God.

It would be grammatically perverse to disconnect the “giants” being on the earth, from the sons of God coming into the daughters of men and producing children.

Not at all. Grammatically it’s fine.

When did the giants begin to appear on the earth, when the sons of God came into the daughters of men.

That the giants were already there works grammatically. Besides, were they “giants”?

Two distinct and different species of beings being mentioned; sons of God, and daughters of men.

Men and women are not distinct and different species of beings where I come from.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

Enoch was in the line of Seth.
Like Enoch, the sons of God walked in the way of the Lord as was pleasing to Him.
The men who had daughters who attracted the sons of God were walking out of the way of the Lord.

When the sons of God go whoring after those walking out of the way, all hell breaks loose, like a flood upon the earth.

I speak from experience.

That is a racist and misogynistic view by implying that "daughters of man" were "daughters of Cain", "sons of God" were "sons of Enosh", and the flood was the punishment for their intermarriage. None of that is in the text, you made all of these up out of your prejudice.

 

[Free]

I'm not the one making that argument, you are.

No, I am not. Be careful that you’re not getting so worked up that you’re not reading what I’m writing.

"Down the line" is that racist argument which contradicts the Scripture.

Again, absolutely nothing to do with racism. I’ve explained this already.

Cain's evil was his own, so was Seth's righteousness, neither is a hereditary trait.

You’re arguing against things I’m not arguing. Please read more carefully.

Also, there's no distinction between Seth's descendants and Cain's, all were filled with wickedness except Noah, and you don't know whether his wife or his sons' wives were from Cain's line.

And what does this have to do with anything I’ve said?

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

God’s angels in heaven never die, which means they are immortal, which also means they don’t sin. Because the wages of sin is death.

Bible states otherwise:

I said, “You are gods,
And all of you are children of the Most High.
But you shall die like men,
And fall like one of the princes.”(Ps. 82:6-7)

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

No, I am not. Be careful that you’re not getting so worked up that you’re not reading what I’m writing.

Your writing "down the line" is against the biblical narrative.

Again, absolutely nothing to do with racism. I’ve explained this already.

No, you've defended it already.

You’re arguing against things I’m not arguing. Please read more carefully.

You're arguing Seth's righteousness and Cain's wickedness went on "down the line" to Noah's days, that's not in the text of Gen. 6 and it goes against the biblical narrative stated in Ez. 18:20 and Jn. 9:3.

And what does this have to do with anything I’ve said?

Your argument "sons of God were Seth's godly line", which implies "daughters of men" were Cain's ungodly line, is totally invalid.

 

[hawkman]

Just a reminder .

TOS1.2 Those who identify themselves as Christians will be held accountable to conduct themselves as such. If they are truly governed by the Holy Spirit, they will not continually engage in goading, mocking, insulting, trolling, berating or inciting other members to anger and resentment. They will post in a Spirit of kindness and respect, even if there are doctrinal disagreements, and be quick to reconcile if differences of opinion should get heated. Disciplinary actions will be taken against those whom staff regards to be naming the name of Christ and yet are holding the truth in unrighteousness.

 

[JLB]

God’s angels in heaven never die, which means they are immortal, which also means they don’t sin.

For if God did not spare the angels who sinned, but cast them down to hell and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved for judgment; and did not spare the ancient world, but saved Noah, one of eight people, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood on the world of the ungodly;
2 Peter 2:4-5

The angels who sinned were cast down to hell where they don’t die but live on forever in hell because of their immoral behavior during the days of Noah.

 

[JLB]

That the giants were already there works grammatically. Besides, were they “giants”?

Yes they were giants.

How they came to be is clearly laid out for us by the Holy Spirit through Moses.

There were giants on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men and they bore children to them. Those were the mighty men who were of old, men of renown. Genesis 6:4

 

[LeviR]

For if God did not spare the angels who sinned, but cast them down to hell and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved for judgment; and did not spare the ancient world, but saved Noah, one of eight people, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood on the world of the ungodly;
2 Peter 2:4-5

The angels who sinned were cast down to hell where they don’t die but live on forever in hell because of their immoral behavior during the days of Noah.

The word for “hell” there in 2 Peter 2:4 is tartaroō.
It relates to abyss which also relates to “the deep” as in water.

The sons of God went down into the water during the flood. They drown.
“Chains of darkness” which is also called “prison” refers to them being dead under the water awaiting the day of judgment when the sea gives up its dead.
I think some of those sons of God will be raised immortal as are the angels of God who never die.

 

[JLB]

The word for “hell” there in 2 Peter 2:4 is tartaroō.
It relates to abyss which also relates to “the deep” as in water.

I’m sorry but hell is certainly not the waters of the flood during the days of Noah.

The sons of God continued to produce giants after the flood waters had receded in which the children of Israel led by Joshua, destroyed them from the promised land.

There were giants on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men and they bore children to them. Those were the mighty men who were of old, men of renown. Genesis 6:4

 

[JLB]

I think some of those sons of God will be raised immortal as the angels of God who never die.

Please explain how angels could drown in water.

 

[LeviR]

Please explain how angels could drown in water.

They were not God’s angels who never die, but men who do.
I’m not exactly sure why Jude would call them angels and Peter call them spirits. But I do know God’s angels who never die are called men. So I think it can go both ways.
Men who do die could be called both angels and spirits. And are in places.

 

[LeviR]

I’m sorry but hell is certainly not the waters of the flood during the days of Noah.

The sons of God continued to produce giants after the flood waters had receded in which the children of Israel led by Joshua, destroyed them from the promised land.

There were giants on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men and they bore children to them. Those were the mighty men who were of old, men of renown. Genesis 6:4

I did some research into the word Peter uses. Tartaroo.
It relates to the abyss and deep water
It’s the only time the Bible uses that word.

 

[LeviR]

What I’m suggesting is that the sons of God were men in the line of Seth who were drown by the flood.
They are called “angels who sinned” and “spirits in prison” who are “chained in darkness “ of tartaroo. Reserved there until the day of judgment when the sea gives up its dead by resurrection..
They will then be judged at the great white throne.

They can’t be God’s immortal angels because they don’t sin or die.