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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
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Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
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Depending upon the Holy Spirit for all you do?
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How are famous preachers sometimes effected by sin?
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Angels Do Not Have Sex
- Thread starter Lewis
- Start date
There were giants on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men and they bore children to them. Those were the mighty men who were of old, men of renown. Genesis 6:4
And also afterward teaches us they continued after the flood.
JLB
th1b.taylor
Member
So many, today, have become what I term to be an oxymoron, Liberal Christians and they seem, universally, to play with the Word of God the very thing we are instructed, never, to do and then emphasised this by repeating the warning, and the curse that will follow, twice more in the scriptures.
When I was younger and actively pursuing Christian Apologetics I was oft rebuked with the idea that the curse warning was only found in The Revelation of Jesus, The Christ and only pertained to that book and it's chapters. So, early on I did the Bible Study and found this same warning and threat of the curse in the Pentateuch and once more at an address I have since forgotten.
This understanding of God's law has seen me removed from a number of Christian professing web sites and now has me in dutch here. But if I am concerned to the point that I capitulate to the point that I ignore the clear command of Matt. 7:1-6 and I fail to judge as I wish to be judged, I will, not may but will, go to Hell a disobedient servant.
I believe it would bring tears to my eyes to see the World handle the Word of God as you have in this post but that is not the case and it will never be thus until the end of the earth. I know because God has said so.
th1b.taylor
Member
The reading and understanding taught me, not by a pastor, not by my dad, not by my wife but arrived at by prayerful study, crying out to the God that spoke to me 23 years before I bowed my knee to Him and then receiving the answer as I again prayed and studied is that, indeed, the Giants, not angels, were indeed in the land and the days of man, the number of the time, in years, was 120 more. These giant men were indeed in the land for the remainder of the 120 years before all men, giants and small, were drowned.
Edward
2024 Supporter
Brother I'm not sure where you read into my posts that I ever said that Angels were created in the flesh? That they left their own habitation, yes, that they took themselves wives and had children, yes. Nothing more. I'm just going by the text of the scripture alone. A lot of the other things are going to be speculation. At the present, us who hold the Angel view are standing on scripture alone, and those who oppose the Angel view seem to be the ones relying on speculation and personal opinion. So you have me confused with your post.
I don't follow your second point at all brother. You have me scratching my head there.
Deborah13
Member
You might want to point out that the Nephilim (giants) existed after that 120 years that it took Noah to build the ark.
KJV
Num 13:33 And there we saw the giants, the sons of Anak, which come of the giants: and we were in our own sight as grasshoppers, and so we were in their sight.
H5303 -
nephı̂yl nephil
nef-eel', nef-eel'
From H5307; properly, a feller, that is, a bully or tyrant: - giant.
YLT
Num 13:33 and there we saw the Nephilim, sons of Anak, of the Nephilim; and we are in our own eyes as grasshoppers; and so we were in their eyes.'
KJV
Deu 3:11 For only Og king of Bashan remained of the remnant of giants; behold, his bedstead was a bedstead of iron; is it not in Rabbath of the children of Ammon? nine cubits was the length thereof, and four cubits the breadth of it, after the cubit of a man.
YLT
Deu 3:11 for only Og king of Bashan had been left of the remnant of the Rephaim; lo, his bedstead is a bedstead of iron; is it not in Rabbath of the sons of Ammon? nine cubits its length, and four cubits its breadth, by the cubit of a man.
H7497 -
râphâ' râphâh
raw-faw', raw-faw'
From H7495 in the sense of invigorating; a giant: - giant, Rapha, Rephaim (-s). See also H1051.
Deborah13
Member
Not so Edward, I stand on scripture. Once again read Genesis 10 and follow it through to who the Bible says the Nephilim were. Look at post # 287 as well.
The Nephilim were mighty men after the flood and they were the descendents of Ham thorough his son and grandson. They were the Canaanite tribes, which included the Amorites. King Og was an Amorite king. Goliath was a Philistine.
imo
So unless one is suggesting that someone on the Ark carried the genetics of fallen angels, the whole angel theory falls apart.
Can you interpret the scriptures in post # 287? They seem pretty clear to me.
H
His_nee (Jeff)
Guest
http://www.angelfire.com/az/rainbowbridge/nephilim.html
E.W.Bullinger elaborated Scripturally as well:
"But we read of the Nephilim again in Num 13:33 "there we saw the Nephilim, the sons of Anak, which come of the Nephilim". How could this be, if they were all destroyed in the Flood? The answer is contained in Gen 6:4, where we read: "There were Nephilim in the earth in those days (i.e. in the days of Noah); and also AFTER THAT, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men (Heb. gibbor, the heroes) which were of old, men of renown" (lit. men of the name, i.e. who got a name and were renowned for their ungodliness). So that, "after that", i.e. after the Flood, there was a second influx of these fallen angels, evidently smaller in number and more limited in area, for they were for the most part confined to Canaan, and were in fact known as "the nations of Canaan"."
much more of potential interest is at that link, but it is untested.
E.W.Bullinger is tested, and most often correct in his findings. Still, test everything.
E.W.Bullinger elaborated Scripturally as well:
"But we read of the Nephilim again in Num 13:33 "there we saw the Nephilim, the sons of Anak, which come of the Nephilim". How could this be, if they were all destroyed in the Flood? The answer is contained in Gen 6:4, where we read: "There were Nephilim in the earth in those days (i.e. in the days of Noah); and also AFTER THAT, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men (Heb. gibbor, the heroes) which were of old, men of renown" (lit. men of the name, i.e. who got a name and were renowned for their ungodliness). So that, "after that", i.e. after the Flood, there was a second influx of these fallen angels, evidently smaller in number and more limited in area, for they were for the most part confined to Canaan, and were in fact known as "the nations of Canaan"."
much more of potential interest is at that link, but it is untested.
E.W.Bullinger is tested, and most often correct in his findings. Still, test everything.
Deborah13
Member
Read the scriptures. Where did the Ammonites ( Amorites, Anaks, Philistines) come from. What is their family lineage?
There is not one scripture that says anything about fallen angels after the flood. That is pure conjecture.
H
His_nee (Jeff)
Guest
note the new link (I couldn't edit /replace it in my previous post) ....
http://levendwater.org/companion/append25.html
"Read the Scriptures" is the (2nd) main theme of my whole life for over 40 years.
The FIRST is SEEK YHWH in YESHUA in ALL THINGS EVERY DAY. For everything! YES!
(If He doesn't know, no one does
) ..... (Also, btw, the topic of giants in the Bible or on the earth is so far down the list of important, I'm not sure what if anything to think of it, so just leave it up to Yhwh in His Good Pleasure to let me know. .... ... ... not slighting it per se, but like Paul said - EVERYTHING is loss compared to the extravagantly generous magnificent Experiential Knowledge of Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior ! )
So, in passing, fwiw,
I know, have heard or read of, very few as accurate as Bullinger. I don't agree with everything he says, dogmatically or necessarily, but he is much better documented or reliable than almost anyone else as far as I've found (in decades of vigorous reading/study/pursuing prayerfully Yhwh's Truth)......
However, what difference does it make where the Ammonites came from ? (did I miss that) Will it change anything ?
I accept that some( all ) of the translating troubles are because man / all mankind/ is so (not just) fallible, but (actually) wicked (and necessarily wrong), apart from God's gracious choice and help.
http://levendwater.org/companion/append25.html
"Read the Scriptures" is the (2nd) main theme of my whole life for over 40 years.
The FIRST is SEEK YHWH in YESHUA in ALL THINGS EVERY DAY. For everything! YES!
(If He doesn't know, no one does
) ..... (Also, btw, the topic of giants in the Bible or on the earth is so far down the list of important, I'm not sure what if anything to think of it, so just leave it up to Yhwh in His Good Pleasure to let me know. .... ... ... not slighting it per se, but like Paul said - EVERYTHING is loss compared to the extravagantly generous magnificent Experiential Knowledge of Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior ! )So, in passing, fwiw,
I know, have heard or read of, very few as accurate as Bullinger. I don't agree with everything he says, dogmatically or necessarily, but he is much better documented or reliable than almost anyone else as far as I've found (in decades of vigorous reading/study/pursuing prayerfully Yhwh's Truth)......
However, what difference does it make where the Ammonites came from ? (did I miss that) Will it change anything ?
I accept that some( all ) of the translating troubles are because man / all mankind/ is so (not just) fallible, but (actually) wicked (and necessarily wrong), apart from God's gracious choice and help.
Last edited by a moderator:
H
His_nee (Jeff)
Guest
http://levendwater.org/companion/append25.html (a more direct link to the Appendix; I didn't realize the previous link included paraphrases in places)
>> small part of it >>
"So that "after that", i.e. after the Flood, there was a second irruption of these fallen angels, evidently smaller in number and more limited in area, for they were for the most part confined to Canaan, and were in fact known as "the nations of Canaan". It was for the destruction of these, that the sword of Israel was necessary, as the Flood had been before. "
>> small part of it >>
"So that "after that", i.e. after the Flood, there was a second irruption of these fallen angels, evidently smaller in number and more limited in area, for they were for the most part confined to Canaan, and were in fact known as "the nations of Canaan". It was for the destruction of these, that the sword of Israel was necessary, as the Flood had been before. "
Not so Edward, I stand on scripture. Once again read Genesis 10 and follow it through to who the Bible says the Nephilim were. Look at post # 287 as well.
The Nephilim were mighty men after the flood and they were the descendents of Ham thorough his son and grandson. They were the Canaanite tribes, which included the Amorites. King Og was an Amorite king. Goliath was a Philistine.
imo
So unless one is suggesting that someone on the Ark carried the genetics of fallen angels, the whole angel theory falls apart.
Can you interpret the scriptures in post # 287? They seem pretty clear to me.
Nephilim are produced by the sons of God.
Nephilim were produced before and after the flood.
Nephilim are found in 2 places in the bible, Genesis 6 and Numbers 13.
Descendants of Ham or The sons of the Anaks or Rephaim... are not listed as Nephilim.
Nephilim are produced by the sons of God, both before the flood and after the flood.
A male human and a female human do not reproduce a son of God.
Only God Himself is capable of producing a son of God.
A son of man and daughter of man can not produce a Nephilim.
Only a son of God and a daughter a man can produce a Nephilim.
4 There were giants on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men and they bore children to them. Those were the mighty men who were of old, men of renown.
The sons of God continued to produce Nephilim after the flood.
The sons of God were not affected by the flood, because they were not human.
JLB
There is not one scripture that says anything about fallen angels before the flood.
The sons of God were angels.
The sons of God produced Nephilim after the flood.
4 There were giants on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men and they bore children to them. Those were the mighty men who were of old, men of renown.
JLB
There were giants on the earth in those days, and also afterward...
There were giants on the earth before the flood and there were giants on the earth after the flood.
Agree or disagree.
JLB
th1b.taylor
Member
Neighbor, Reba has correctly defined the central issue here as I have tried over and over to explain to several of you. the issue lies in the text you underlined and the cute this is you also underlined when. The Noadic flood has not been brought into the discussion with verses 1 thru 4.
What should help to clarify this issue is the fact that in modern textual concepts, verses 1 thru 4 are one paragraph, Verse 5 begins the second paragraph of this chapter and a new, if you will excuse my East Texan, rabbit trail pertaining to this issue. The popular but incorrect interpretation requires a closer than is proper marriage of these two, separate but related paragraphs.
Deborah13
Member
Can you challenge the scripture I have used that clearly talks about Nephilim after the flood? # 287
Can you challenge the scripture I have used to show where they came from and who they were?
If I am wrong please show it to me by showing me how I am interpreting these scriptures incorrectly.
Anyone?
JLB The agree or disagree.. true or false.... yes,,, no..... posts are just about meaningless they do not invite discussion ...to give you the idea here is a one for you...
The Word says
Gen 7:21 And all flesh died that moved upon the earth, both of fowl, and of cattle, and of beast, and of every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth, and every man:
Gen 7:22 All in whose nostrils was the breath of life, of all that was in the dry land, died.
Gen 7:23 And every living substance was destroyed which was upon the face of the ground, both man, and cattle, and the creeping things, and the fowl of the heaven; and they were destroyed from the earth: and Noah only remained alive, and they that were with him in the ark.
Gen 7:24 And the waters prevailed upon the earth an hundred and fifty days
True or false Agree or disagree. With God's Word....
The Word says
Gen 7:21 And all flesh died that moved upon the earth, both of fowl, and of cattle, and of beast, and of every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth, and every man:
Gen 7:22 All in whose nostrils was the breath of life, of all that was in the dry land, died.
Gen 7:23 And every living substance was destroyed which was upon the face of the ground, both man, and cattle, and the creeping things, and the fowl of the heaven; and they were destroyed from the earth: and Noah only remained alive, and they that were with him in the ark.
Gen 7:24 And the waters prevailed upon the earth an hundred and fifty days
True or false Agree or disagree. With God's Word....