Angels Do Not Have Sex

[turnorburn]

Say Gary.. what does one mean when one says truth is not limited to the word of God?

tob

 

[agua.]

C'mon Rebs I'm not that young :D

 

[agua.]

Say Gary.. what does one mean when one says truth is not limited to the word of God?

tob

I'm guessing if Gaz tells you he's eating a sandwich it's the truth.

 

[Gary]

Say Gary.. what does one mean when one says truth is not limited to the word of God?

tob

I don't believe one needs a bible to discern right from wrong.
.

 

[Gary]

I'm guessing if Gaz tells you he's eating a sandwich it's the truth.

.

 

[JLB]

What's your point?

Who on the Ark was a giant... ?

Nobody on the Ark was a giant.

Nobody in the the Genealogy of mankind was a Nephilim.

Nephilim were created by the sons of God and the daughters of men.

Sometime after the flood the sons of God continued with the daughters of men to produce nephilim again.

Probably with the women in the line of Ham.


JLB

 

[Edward]

Gen 6:1 Now it came about, when men began to multiply on the face of the land, and daughters were born to them,

Gen 6:2 that the sons of God saw that the daughters of men were beautiful; and they took wives for themselves, whomever they chose.

Gen 6:3 Then the LORD said, "My Spirit shall not strive with man forever, because he also is flesh; nevertheless his days shall be one hundred and twenty years."

Gen 6:4 The Nephilim were on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men, and they bore children to them. Those were the mighty men who were of old, men of renown.

Gen 6:5 Then the LORD saw that the wickedness of man was great on the earth, and that every intent of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.

Gen 6:6 The LORD was sorry that He had made man on the earth, and He was grieved in His heart.


The fourth verse of this passage is, perhaps, the most contested passage in scripture and this condition exists because of a combination of the refusal to commit to a serious study of the Word of God and the general dumbing down of the world. When I was an atheist child I was taught by my Public Education Teachers and my Mom and Dad to pay, strict, attention to the context of any writing. This requires the knowledge of how to learn a thing but the Public School System today specializes in teaching the exams and that, by Rote Memory resulting in two generations of lesser well educated graduates.


In verse 1 we see the subject of this passage is mankind and using a bit of logic it is reasonable that we are about learn about our forefathers. So Man has been, forcefully, ejected from the Garden of Eden and has begun to be a force of himself by numbers. So, context being as important to any story, tale or recounting we must remember we are talking about men when we come to verse 2. Now I've never used the scripture to prove who the sons of God are but have rather gone extra-biblical for ancient Hebrew customs. Since there is no contest on who the daughters of man are I will deal, here, only with the proof the sons of God are not Fallen Angels;

1. Duet. 14:1
   
   
2. Rom. 8:16
   
   
3. Rom. 9:14
   
   
4. Rom. 9:8
   
   
5. Rom. 9:26
   
   
6. Gal. 3:26
   
   
7. 1John 3:1

In Verse 3 the subject is for the second time defined or as I point out often, God is highlighting that this is about mankind and not the “man imposed”fallen angels. I have been banned from more web sites than I can count on one hand because of this subject and, who knows, it might not have run it's course yet and I still expect no special consideration from any man because the Bible is divisive and there is nothing I can do about that although modern man seems determined to do so.


And we are at the heart of the matter, “The Nephilim.” These are giant humans. As this matter has not progressed beyond the first paragraph, the subject is still the deeds and sins of mankind. We learn in verse 4 that they, the Nephilim, were in the land in this day and also afterward and it is right here that most people do not pay attention. The Nephilim are not said to come into the daughters of men. The scriptures say the sons of God, men, went into the daughters of man and the scriptures as well as ancient cusom make the sons of God to be created mankind.


A minor matter of consideration but important to avoid venturing into heresy is, “The Nephilim were on the earth in those days, and also afterward.” Noah did not break out his Dodge Ram and run down to the lumber yard for his supplies. And when they began to be gathered, neither did he break out his DeWalt, plug it in and butcher the lumber to his need. No, it took about a hundred years for Noah to build the Ark God required of him. And then there is the proclamation that man's days were 120 years showing that the Ark would float 120 years from this point. So the Nephelim were there after this revelation for 120 years more.


I believe, it's been a long time, that the first I heard of this that made scriptural sense was from the Bible Answer Man, Hank Hanagraph at equip.org, when he explained how angels, fallen or not, had no extension in space and time without God granting them a temporary human body.


Verses 5 and 6 sum up why God is shortening the life span of man and why He is about to charge Noah with building the Ark. In summation, men and women cohabited, just as God had command us to do and they sinned worse, if there is such a standard, than Adam and God was upset. And as Paul Harvey used to say, Now you know the rest of the story.

That's a pretty big leap you make there brother, about verses 1 & 2. The subject is the sons of God, the mention of men serves to give context of time period. If you will look very close at verses !&2 you will see that they are in fact one sentence. Perhaps this is the source of the confusion?

 

[brother Paul]

Now it came about, when men began to multiply on the face of the land, and daughters were born to them, that the sons of God saw that the daughters of men were beautiful; and they took wives for themselves, whomever they chose.

So there are two views being expressed here...one is that at this time "the sons of God" saw and did...and that this is a separate group from the "men" (see verse 6:1-which is how ALL the Rabbis of old in their native tongue, and the first 300 years of the church read this in the Hebrew)...and the second which is that the sons of God are a sub-category among "men"..

Now we all (I hope) agree at least that not all people are automatically by being born humans are the children of God (otherwise why would Jesus say many have a different father?)...so only those whom the LORD has chosen and put His Spirit in are the children of God. Agreed? So the list of passages (Deut 14:1 and then New Testament passages given) only address those people God has chosen for this SPECIAL relationship among humans...can anyone please show any scriptures that how there was such a sub-group of humans God chose and filled BEFORE the Flood?

 

[Edward]

Nobody on the Ark was a giant.

Nobody in the the Genealogy of mankind was a Nephilim.

Nephilim were created by the sons of God and the daughters of men.

Sometime after the flood the sons of God continued with the daughters of men to produce nephilim again.

Probably with the women in the line of Ham.


JLB

You know brother, i think you're right about this. Giants or Nephilim would not have had to be on the ark. The fallen angels could fly and were unaffected by the flood. Maybe one of them snatched up Hams wife after the flood and started it again.

 

[reba]

Nobody on the Ark was a giant.

Nobody in the the Genealogy of mankind was a Nephilim.

Nephilim were created by the sons of God and the daughters of men.

Sometime after the flood the sons of God continued with the daughters of men to produce nephilim again.

Probably with the women in the line of Ham.


JLB

The Word says
Gen 7:21 And all flesh died that moved upon the earth, both of fowl, and of cattle, and of beast, and of every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth, and every man:
Gen 7:22 All in whose nostrils was the breath of life, of all that was in the dry land, died.
Gen 7:23 And every living substance was destroyed which was upon the face of the ground, both man, and cattle, and the creeping things, and the fowl of the heaven; and they were destroyed from the earth: and Noah only remained alive, and they that were with him in the ark.
Gen 7:24 And the waters prevailed upon the earth an hundred and fifty days.

The way i read this passage the Nephilim would have had to be in the ark...

 

[Edward]

which was upon the face of the ground,

Or in the air reba.

 

[reba]

and Noah only remained alive, and they that were with him in the ark

 

[Edward]

And all flesh died that moved upon the earth,

Agreed, but it is talking about flesh. Satan didn't die, the Angels didn't die. Flesh.

 

[th1b.taylor]

What's your point?

Who on the Ark was a giant... ?

That, actually, is the point, there are no giants. Blood line? All humans, Dwarf, Midget, Giant or normal are the descendants of Adam, not of spiritual beings with no extension in time and space. As I, painstakingly pointed out, everything, including the Bible, must be read in context.

 

[reba]

Guess some folks believe in a new or continuing 'group' of reproducing angels... All flesh died except what was in the Ark... so if the seed of those angels was not in the Ark ... Are there still nephilim around today? If so where if not why?

Got it http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bigfoot

 

[th1b.taylor]

Hey Bill I just want to thank you for calling me a youngster. Makes wanna go ride my bike. :biggrin

Just guessing but from your pic you're in you late thirties to very early fifties and calling one a youngster in my world, Texas (more like Australia than the natives will ever own up to), is polite and honorable. Get your bike over here and my wife will let me charge my wheelchair up and we will go for a ride.

 

[th1b.taylor]

Guess some folks believe in a new or continuing 'group' of reproducing angels... All flesh died except what was in the Ark... so if the seed of those angels was not in the Ark ... Are there still nephilim around today? If so where if not why?

Got it http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bigfoot

Great questions and in the context I, not rereading, believe I left that possibility open for discussion over my post. The only possible occurrences I see are the seven foot black and white men the NBA goes after for the sport.

In King David's youth, maybe, they were 9 foot tall or better and he killed one with a flat stone? Regardless, they are "men" of great renown and the nay sayer wants that God noted truth ignored.

 

[th1b.taylor]

That's a pretty big leap you make there brother, about verses 1 & 2. The subject is the sons of God, the mention of men serves to give context of time period. If you will look very close at verses !&2 you will see that they are in fact one sentence. Perhaps this is the source of the confusion?

First, I did not pretend they were other than one sentence, I said they were different verses. (Edited, ToS 2.4, inflammatory remark. Obadiah)

I live under the command of the only Omnipotent, Omnipresent God there is and that being truth, nothing, including my attitude and yours are controllable by Him. The case is correctly made that the Christian Bible versions have been divided by the hands of men. But to claim that and drop it there is to be intentionally ignorant because God has issued the warnings against changing His Word and everything is controllable by YHWH and history records His Word has been kept true and trustworthy.

If you have a comment on my post, I'll address it. I have already shown in the post why God fearing, aka, wise Christians do not refute what God has said.

 

[Sparkey]

...
Plus, keep in mind that the fallenones left their own habitation (bodies) so who knows what where to or what was possible after that.

The word translated "habitation" in the KJV could mean the 'body' or the dwelling place of a spirit. It could also mean a region or area such as heaven. You seem to be certain in your assertion that angels were created with bodies (in flesh) and that's all Jude could have meant. Your conclude that they left them (their bodies) to fornicate with human females. I'm lost in all this speculation but that's okay.

Angels left 'their first estate'. They left their habitation. Does this necessarily mean that angels were created in flesh? Were they given the ability to procreate with other flesh originally?
_________________________________

One of your recent replies reverses your dogma regarding their first habitation being their bodies (flesh) when you've suggested a argument and correction to the idea that they (angels) along with all flesh perished.

Agreed, but it is talking about flesh. Satan didn't die, the Angels didn't die. Flesh.

This second thought (opposed to the first) is one that I can agree with. Angels did not die in the flood. They are not flesh. When we hear what Jesus has instructed about angels and sex - the only way to hold onto the tenuous assertion that they mated with women is to reply, "AH-HA! Jesus said they don't give or take in marriage WHILE THEY ARE IN HEAVEN, but remember that they left their first habitation (heaven) and therefore they could.

How can we insist that it is okay to have it both ways?

 

[JLB]

The Word says
Gen 7:21 And all flesh died that moved upon the earth, both of fowl, and of cattle, and of beast, and of every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth, and every man:
Gen 7:22 All in whose nostrils was the breath of life, of all that was in the dry land, died.
Gen 7:23 And every living substance was destroyed which was upon the face of the ground, both man, and cattle, and the creeping things, and the fowl of the heaven; and they were destroyed from the earth: and Noah only remained alive, and they that were with him in the ark.
Gen 7:24 And the waters prevailed upon the earth an hundred and fifty days.

The way i read this passage the Nephilim would have had to be in the ark...

The sons of God were unaffected by the flood.

The Nephilim were the children of the sons of God and the daughters of men.

The Nephilim were all destroyed by the flood.

JLB