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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
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Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
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Depending upon the Holy Spirit for all you do?
Read through the following study by Tenchi for more on this topic
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How are famous preachers sometimes effected by sin?
Join Sola Scriptura for a discussion on the subject
https://christianforums.net/threads/anointed-preaching-teaching.109331/#post-1912042
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Angels Do Not Have Sex
- Thread starter Lewis
- Start date
Edward
2024 Supporter
Brothers! please ease up on one another. This is not a salvation issue, though interesting and perhaps important or it would not be in the Word of god. We are one body and many members and should strive for unity within the body, brotherly love.
1 john 4:19-21
19 We love him, because he first loved us.
20 If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?
21 And this commandment have we from him, That he who loveth God love his brother also./
Just sayin'...There's a way to talk about this issue without frustration or ill feelings.
To no one inparticular, just encouraging brotherly love in the body brothers.
Bless you all in our Lord Jesus Christ. :yes
1 john 4:19-21
19 We love him, because he first loved us.
20 If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?
21 And this commandment have we from him, That he who loveth God love his brother also./
Just sayin'...There's a way to talk about this issue without frustration or ill feelings.
To no one inparticular, just encouraging brotherly love in the body brothers.
Bless you all in our Lord Jesus Christ. :yes
chessman
Member
No. Take, for example, the Mal 2:10 passage. I would read enough of the context to grasp who Malachi meant as sons of God and not just assume I knew already. In that case, it's fairly easy.
Malachi 1:1 An oracle. The word of Yahweh to Israel through Malachi. ...
2:10 Do we not all have one father? Has not one God created us? Why then are we unfaithful to one another, profaning the covenant of our ancestors?
Oh, and in this context, I don't think Yahweh was giving an oracle to Jesus (Israel, firstborn) through Malachi.2:10 Do we not all have one father? Has not one God created us? Why then are we unfaithful to one another, profaning the covenant of our ancestors?
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Okay so are you saying Israel was the firstborn?
That is what the others claimed was meant, that the nation of Israel was God's Firstborn.
Let's say that's true.
If Israel was the Firstborn, then how could there be human sons of God before the Firstborn, during the days of Noah.
JLB
6 For unto us a Child is born, Unto us a Son is given; And the government will be upon His shoulder. And His name will be called Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace. 7 Of the increase of His government and peace There will be no end, Upon the throne of David and over His kingdom, To order it and establish it with judgment and justice From that time forward, even forever. The zeal of the Lord of hosts will perform this. Isaiah 9:6-7
Jesus! Thats who.
JLB
Brothers! please ease up on one another. This is not a salvation issue, though interesting and perhaps important or it would not be in the Word of god. We are one body and many members and should strive for unity within the body, brotherly love.
1 john 4:19-21
19 We love him, because he first loved us.
20 If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?
21 And this commandment have we from him, That he who loveth God love his brother also./
Just sayin'...There's a way to talk about this issue without frustration or ill feelings.
To no one inparticular, just encouraging brotherly love in the body brothers.
Bless you all in our Lord Jesus Christ. :yes
Thanks Brother, good word.
If you see me being too hard on someone, please PM me and I will listen to you and be corrected.
Thanks JLB
There is a principle that, when ignored, oftentimes leads to false conclusions. Isaiah spoke about it. So did Paul.
We are told to earnestly desire the pure milk of the word. Further, we are told to study [the Word], to show ourselves approved by our ability to apply it or 'rightly divide' it well. (Paraphrase). The way that Isaiah said it was, "here a little and there a little," meaning that it's perfectly okay to see what God said at various times before coming to conclusion.
Paul spoke of the 'meat' of the word. Isaiah asked, "To whom will God teach knowledge?" and "who will He make to understand doctrine?" (Isa 28:9) Will it be those just weaned from milk?
I have an image of a deer or doe, thirsty for the fresh waters that are provided. She timidly approaches a shallow in the stream and very much wants to be satisfied. As she lowers her head she is aware that she is vulnerable and that she has exposed her neck to potential predators. A noise is heard. Her peace is disturbed and she bounds away, her thirst un-quenched.
How may we bring all the Scripture that may apply to our topic of discussion here when each one is immediately challenged with leading questions and presumptions. We are told to look, "line upon line," and "precept upon precept." We are told to examine the whole counsel of God.
This subject has been argued for hundreds of years. It's one of those controversial topics that are seldom resolved. The sound of a possible predator scares us away and we depart, out thirst for truth unslackened. Each one who is as yet "undecided" may simply put the whole subject aside, go to their prayer closet and seek the Lord about it. Eventually, and when the time is right, the truth will be revealed. Paul spoke of difficult subjects in his time. The topic was the Grace of God being given to those who were not considered children of God (the Gentiles). He spoke by revelation (Eph 3:3) and made clear the truth. We would do well to spend the time needed so that we too may speak by revelation and not by speculation.
I remain convinced that the Lord will answer. "Ask, seek, knock..." Ask? It shall be answered. Seek? It shall be found. Knock? It shall be opened. The Lord knows how to preserve the righteous. Until such time that the Lord reveals to us what He wants us to know, until such time as He teach knowledge and makes us to understand, our job is to continue to act upon His command: To seek for the unity of the faith and to fervently love the brethren.
We are told to earnestly desire the pure milk of the word. Further, we are told to study [the Word], to show ourselves approved by our ability to apply it or 'rightly divide' it well. (Paraphrase). The way that Isaiah said it was, "here a little and there a little," meaning that it's perfectly okay to see what God said at various times before coming to conclusion.
Paul spoke of the 'meat' of the word. Isaiah asked, "To whom will God teach knowledge?" and "who will He make to understand doctrine?" (Isa 28:9) Will it be those just weaned from milk?
- My point here is that our debate forums are not the best place for our studies. Better would be to seek the Lord, ask His guidance, then prayerfully read the word of Truth in a calm, peace-filled spirit.
I have an image of a deer or doe, thirsty for the fresh waters that are provided. She timidly approaches a shallow in the stream and very much wants to be satisfied. As she lowers her head she is aware that she is vulnerable and that she has exposed her neck to potential predators. A noise is heard. Her peace is disturbed and she bounds away, her thirst un-quenched.
How may we bring all the Scripture that may apply to our topic of discussion here when each one is immediately challenged with leading questions and presumptions. We are told to look, "line upon line," and "precept upon precept." We are told to examine the whole counsel of God.
This subject has been argued for hundreds of years. It's one of those controversial topics that are seldom resolved. The sound of a possible predator scares us away and we depart, out thirst for truth unslackened. Each one who is as yet "undecided" may simply put the whole subject aside, go to their prayer closet and seek the Lord about it. Eventually, and when the time is right, the truth will be revealed. Paul spoke of difficult subjects in his time. The topic was the Grace of God being given to those who were not considered children of God (the Gentiles). He spoke by revelation (Eph 3:3) and made clear the truth. We would do well to spend the time needed so that we too may speak by revelation and not by speculation.
I remain convinced that the Lord will answer. "Ask, seek, knock..." Ask? It shall be answered. Seek? It shall be found. Knock? It shall be opened. The Lord knows how to preserve the righteous. Until such time that the Lord reveals to us what He wants us to know, until such time as He teach knowledge and makes us to understand, our job is to continue to act upon His command: To seek for the unity of the faith and to fervently love the brethren.
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It's the glory of God to conceal at matter, it's the glory of kings to search it out.
JLB
Yes brother, I agree.
It would be hard to dispute there being any human sons of God in the Book of Genesis, before Israel, since Israel was declared the firstborn of God.
Wisdom is known by Her children.
JLB
You think you've made some great point but "Israel" is more than the man called Jacob ben Isaac. Who knows? Could God include Gentiles in the body of believers known as "Israel" ? At least spiritually we know He does.
Snatching a scripture and applying it to our subject of Angel-sex (something the Bible hardly mentions, if it mentions it at all) doesn't (in my opinion) rightly apply the word of truth.
Let's take a step back and look from a different perspective. We, as Gentiles, have been grafted into the Branch. The Hebrews were not grafted in. We were. Saying that we are sons but they are not seems wrong to me. Do you get what I'm saying? It's another instance were we need to use care and to guard our hearts according to how the Bible admonishes.
Snatching a scripture and applying it to our subject of Angel-sex (something the Bible hardly mentions, if it mentions it at all) doesn't (in my opinion) rightly apply the word of truth.
Let's take a step back and look from a different perspective. We, as Gentiles, have been grafted into the Branch. The Hebrews were not grafted in. We were. Saying that we are sons but they are not seems wrong to me. Do you get what I'm saying? It's another instance were we need to use care and to guard our hearts according to how the Bible admonishes.
Yes I agree we as Gods children are called sons of God.
We have be born again through the incorruptible seed.
Not souring the days of Noah.
JLB
Edward
2024 Supporter
Romans 11 explains the cutting off of branches and grafting in very well. it's a very good chapter.
sojourner4Christ
Member
space
From the OP:
Can angels have sex? Jesus says in Matthew 22:30 that angels are not "given in marriage." Doesn't this prove that they cannot have sex, or reproduce?
Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God. For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven. (Matt 22:29, 30).
Looking carefully and without a preconceived notion, we see that Jesus said that the angels "in heaven" DO NOT marry (nor presumably have sex, reproduce). He did not state that angels "in general" CAN NOT do so. An unmarried Christian who, like the angels of God in heaven, wishes to remain obedient to God's will, "does not" have sex, but not because he or she is physically incapable of doing so.
That angels cannot have sex would be a fair interpretation of this passage, if this were the only passage in scripture that came close to dealing with the topic. It is not, however, and therefore any interpretation of this scripture will be in accord with all else that is written. Jude 6 and 2 Peter 2:4-6 clearly indicate that the sin of these angels was sexual in nature, affirming the hybrid understanding of Genesis 6.
Jude 6: And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.
2 Peter 2:4-6: For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment; And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly; And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly;
When they "shape-shift," angels can appear like perfectly normal humans(Heb 13:2). We know from the Old Testament that they not only appear human, but that they can eat food as well (Genesis 18:6-8; 19:3. In fact, angels eat when in their "normal" state. Psalm 78:24-25 tells us that manna is the "food of angels"). There is no reason to assume that angels do not contain all the physical properties of a normal human being, when assuming human form. However, they are not human, which goes a long way towards understanding why their children were "superhuman" (known as the heroes of old, men of renown, legends, Titans, Giants... depending upon your Bible translation.)
While far-fetched or disturbing to some, Matthew 22:30 simply does not dogmatically infer that sexual reproduction is a physical impossibility for angelic beings. In fact, since Jesus specified the angels "in heaven," one would have to go beyond what is actually written (AND ignore what else IS written) to state that angels that ARE NOT in heaven (i.e. fallen), seeking to thwart God's purposes, CAN NOT have sex.
As Jesus said above, "Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures..." Taken as a whole, the entire body of scripture indicates otherwise.
Which brings up the question, WHY would they do so?
...the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair... (Gen 6:2).
Quite simply, "lust" would be the most obvious and scriptural answer.
However, there are at least two reasons that are a little more speculative, but quite scriptural as well.
If there were an actual motive to their actions aside from lust, Genesis 3:15 gives us the first clue. Here God pronounces that Eve's "seed" would crush the head of the serpent. Most Bible scholars generally regard this as the first Messianic prophecy in the Bible, in that we are told here that Satan's end will be at the hand of one of Eve's descendants.
The Bible is a veritable panorama of Satan's efforts to destroy the Messiah, even before he was born. It is quite possible that the hybridization of humanity was a direct attempt to destroy the human bloodline, to prevent this birth i.e. to prevent Satan's demise.
Just before the flood, we see that humanity was practically over-run with hybrids ("... the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair, and they took them wives of all which they chose.) (Genesis 6:2). Abduction would be the proper term here, as the consent or courtship of the female, nor the approval of parents, is an issue. For fans of Star Trek's "Borg," assimilation would be the best analogy!
It is at precisely at this point in scripture God's judgment of the flood is pronounced:
But Noah found grace in the eyes of the Lord... (Genesis 6:8).
Why was Noah chosen? Most modern translations seem to indicate that he was merely "righteous" or morally superior to others, and God favored him because of it. Only the King James Version (and study of the original Hebrew) gives true insight to the fact that Noah's family was probably the only family on Earth left that was genetically pure, therefore capable of fulfilling the Messianic prophecy of Genesis 3:15.
...Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations, and Noah walked with God. (Genesis 6:9).
From the OP:
Can angels have sex? Jesus says in Matthew 22:30 that angels are not "given in marriage." Doesn't this prove that they cannot have sex, or reproduce?
Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God. For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven. (Matt 22:29, 30).
Looking carefully and without a preconceived notion, we see that Jesus said that the angels "in heaven" DO NOT marry (nor presumably have sex, reproduce). He did not state that angels "in general" CAN NOT do so. An unmarried Christian who, like the angels of God in heaven, wishes to remain obedient to God's will, "does not" have sex, but not because he or she is physically incapable of doing so.
That angels cannot have sex would be a fair interpretation of this passage, if this were the only passage in scripture that came close to dealing with the topic. It is not, however, and therefore any interpretation of this scripture will be in accord with all else that is written. Jude 6 and 2 Peter 2:4-6 clearly indicate that the sin of these angels was sexual in nature, affirming the hybrid understanding of Genesis 6.
Jude 6: And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.
2 Peter 2:4-6: For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment; And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly; And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly;
When they "shape-shift," angels can appear like perfectly normal humans(Heb 13:2). We know from the Old Testament that they not only appear human, but that they can eat food as well (Genesis 18:6-8; 19:3. In fact, angels eat when in their "normal" state. Psalm 78:24-25 tells us that manna is the "food of angels"). There is no reason to assume that angels do not contain all the physical properties of a normal human being, when assuming human form. However, they are not human, which goes a long way towards understanding why their children were "superhuman" (known as the heroes of old, men of renown, legends, Titans, Giants... depending upon your Bible translation.)
While far-fetched or disturbing to some, Matthew 22:30 simply does not dogmatically infer that sexual reproduction is a physical impossibility for angelic beings. In fact, since Jesus specified the angels "in heaven," one would have to go beyond what is actually written (AND ignore what else IS written) to state that angels that ARE NOT in heaven (i.e. fallen), seeking to thwart God's purposes, CAN NOT have sex.
As Jesus said above, "Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures..." Taken as a whole, the entire body of scripture indicates otherwise.
Which brings up the question, WHY would they do so?
...the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair... (Gen 6:2).
Quite simply, "lust" would be the most obvious and scriptural answer.
However, there are at least two reasons that are a little more speculative, but quite scriptural as well.
If there were an actual motive to their actions aside from lust, Genesis 3:15 gives us the first clue. Here God pronounces that Eve's "seed" would crush the head of the serpent. Most Bible scholars generally regard this as the first Messianic prophecy in the Bible, in that we are told here that Satan's end will be at the hand of one of Eve's descendants.
The Bible is a veritable panorama of Satan's efforts to destroy the Messiah, even before he was born. It is quite possible that the hybridization of humanity was a direct attempt to destroy the human bloodline, to prevent this birth i.e. to prevent Satan's demise.
Just before the flood, we see that humanity was practically over-run with hybrids ("... the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair, and they took them wives of all which they chose.) (Genesis 6:2). Abduction would be the proper term here, as the consent or courtship of the female, nor the approval of parents, is an issue. For fans of Star Trek's "Borg," assimilation would be the best analogy!
It is at precisely at this point in scripture God's judgment of the flood is pronounced:
But Noah found grace in the eyes of the Lord... (Genesis 6:8).
Why was Noah chosen? Most modern translations seem to indicate that he was merely "righteous" or morally superior to others, and God favored him because of it. Only the King James Version (and study of the original Hebrew) gives true insight to the fact that Noah's family was probably the only family on Earth left that was genetically pure, therefore capable of fulfilling the Messianic prophecy of Genesis 3:15.
...Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations, and Noah walked with God. (Genesis 6:9).
Is that what you want me to believe you did? I mean, did you come up with this idea on your own? Did it not exist before you were born?
sojourner4Christ
Member
It matters not whether it came from a dictionary or a dumpster. Rather, is it of the Spirit of God, or the spirit of antichrist? That's all we have to look at.
What saith Scripture?
Well, I, for one, had never heard of any such thing until recently. A friend began the conversation, asking why the Book of Enoch was not considered Scripture. Then came the topic of angel-sex and it went from there...
There were no "preconceived" ideas on my side. I can't speak for my friend Edward but I doubt that he brought any preconceived ideas either.
The reason that I've asked if you had heard of or studied or been taught is because you brought up the whole "preconceived ideas" and it didn't ring true to my experience. My friend started researching what others said and found several scriptures to prove what they were saying.
But please don't get me wrong, I'm not faulting his Berean approach to study at all, just wondering about your statement:
How would you think that the typical person who has never even heard of such a thing have any type of preconceived idea?? Unless we were taught that angels could have sex I honestly doubt the idea would even occur to most. Has that not been your experience as well?
There were no "preconceived" ideas on my side. I can't speak for my friend Edward but I doubt that he brought any preconceived ideas either.
The reason that I've asked if you had heard of or studied or been taught is because you brought up the whole "preconceived ideas" and it didn't ring true to my experience. My friend started researching what others said and found several scriptures to prove what they were saying.
But please don't get me wrong, I'm not faulting his Berean approach to study at all, just wondering about your statement:
How would you think that the typical person who has never even heard of such a thing have any type of preconceived idea?? Unless we were taught that angels could have sex I honestly doubt the idea would even occur to most. Has that not been your experience as well?