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Angels Do Not Have Sex

JLB, you need to look further than you have looked for your answer. Regrettably, I can not help you. Let all things be judged by two or three witnesses, right? JLB, I'm sorry but your repetitious questions won't resolve the dilemma you've created for yourself.

Do you really believe that Christians (being men) are wrong to call him Father? I stumble at that one. It's inconceivable to me why it's so difficult to understand that it's not just angels that may call God their Father. Jesus was not wrong when he taught us to pray, "Our Father, who art in heaven...

I know in my heart that you are His son, that He is your Father. I've seen evidence and can testify on your behalf. Call on me if you want, but there is greater than me that will testify for you. Jesus, your Savior, has confessed you to His Father. His promises are yea and amen.
 
JLB, you need to look further than you have looked for your answer. Regrettably, I can not help you. Let all things be judged by two or three witnesses, right? JLB, I'm sorry but your repetitious questions won't resolve the dilemma you've created for yourself.

Do you really believe that Christians (being men) are wrong to call him Father? I stumble at that one. It's inconceivable to me why it's so difficult to understand that it's not just angels that may call God their Father. Jesus was not wrong when he taught us to pray, "Our Father, who art in heaven...

I know in my heart that you are His son, that He is your Father. I've seen evidence and can testify on your behalf. Call on me if you want, but there is greater than me that will testify for you. Jesus, your Savior, has confessed you to His Father. His promises are yea and amen.

Let anyone on this Forum prove by the scriptures that the sons of God were reproduced by natural child birth.

Let's have a vote.

Do you believe the sons of God were produced by natural child birth.

Please include the scripture that validates your position.

JLB
 
Rom_8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

Jn_3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
Joh_1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
 
Let anyone on this Forum prove by the scriptures that the sons of God were reproduced by natural child birth.

Let's have a vote.

Do you believe the sons of God were produced by natural child birth.

Please include the scripture that validates your position.

JLB
The jury is still out for me.
I can look at Job 1:6;2:1 which refers to the angels on this issue.
In Matthew 22:30 says that angels do not marry.I do not believe the Bible tells us that angels have a gender and can reproduce.But if they were ordinary human beings why the harsh judgment in Genesis 6:5-7 and why then were the offspring giants and heros?
 
Rom_8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

Jn_3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
Joh_1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:


Reba, where does this scripture teach us a son of God can be produced by natural child birth by a man and a woman?


JLB
 
The jury is still out for me.
I can look at Job 1:6;2:1 which refers to the angels on this issue.
In Matthew 22:30 says that angels do not marry.I do not believe the Bible tells us that angels have a gender and can reproduce.But if they were ordinary human beings why the harsh judgment in Genesis 6:5-7 and why then were the offspring giants and heros?

A human man [son of man] can nor reproduce a son of God.

Very simple.

A son of God is begotten or created directly by God.


JLB
 
:amen
Rom_8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

Jn_3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
Joh_1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
:amen

:whirl:whirl:whirl:whirl:whirl:whirl:whirl:whirl:whirl:whirl:whirl:whirl
:sohappy:sohappy:sohappy:sohappy:sohappy:sohappy:sohappy:sohappy:sohappy:sohappy:sohappy:sohappy
:thumbsup:thumbsup :biggrin2:biggrin2:biggrin2:biggrin2:biggrin2:biggrin2:biggrin2 :halo:halo:halo:halo:halo:halo:halo
sometimes, english ain't so bad, eh ! :)
 
I was very careful to try to not suggest that of any of our Members. But don't concern yourself with what I've said or haven't said. The fact that we are admonished by the Holy Spirit to use care speaks for itself, does it not?

You're right Sparrow we should be very careful what we suggest, and even think. It's very important to understand what a scripture means before applying it.
 
A son of God is begotten or created directly by God.

JLB

Good thing the Holy Spirit is God:

Romans 8:14 For all those who are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God.

Verse 14 is one of those verses that is there "for" a reason. It directly contradicts your idea that only angels are called "sons of God", which is why you always are careful to qualify your ruling that it's "in the OT" where Sons of God always equals angels. What possible difference does that make? Since God says all that are led by His Spirit do you think He forgot to mention this qualifier of yours?

Plus He's already called humans "sons" in the OT as well.


A human man [son of man] can nor reproduce a son of God.
Agreed, but brother, God can produce a human "son of God" in the OT just as easily as He can produce a son the NT. Which is why Paul is accurate to say all that are led by the Spirit are called sons of God and Jesus is accurate to teach us to pray to The Father and is why we call each other brothers and sisters.

Romans 8:12-13 So then, brothers, we are obligated not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh. For if you live according to the flesh, you are going to die, but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.

So then, brothers, we are obligated not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh [like choosing a non-Godly woman who is merely a "daughter of man" we happen to find physically attractive as a wife, see Gen 6:. ].

For
if you live according to the flesh, you are going to die [not sure why Paul doesn't say you are going to be in a process of torture forever in this verse, but whatever],

but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.


Romans 8:5 For those who are living according to the flesh are intent on the things of the flesh, but those who are living according to the Spirit are intent on the things of the Spirit.

This is no accident that Paul is contrasting those "living according to the Spirit" (i.e. a son of god) with those "living according to the flesh" and Moses is contrasting attractive "daughters of man" with sinful desires of "sons of God" (who by the way receive a punishment for their sins of living for only 120 years). I thought angels could not die? I guess these did after 120 years, huh? Or maybe they were not angels but rather men. Sinful men.

Genesis 6:1-3 And it happened that, when humankind began to multiply on the face of the ground, daughters were born to them. Then the sons of God saw the daughters of humankind, that they were beautiful. And they took for themselves wives from all that they chose. And Yahweh said, “My Spirit shall not abide with humankind forever in that he is also flesh. And his days shall be one hundred and twenty years.”

Then comes the flood.

Romans 8:8 and those who are in the flesh are not able to please God. ... For if you live according to the flesh, you are going to die,
Then comes the Final Judgment.
 
Good thing the Holy Spirit is God:

Romans 8:14 For all those who are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God.

Verse 14 is one of those verses that is there "for" a reason. It directly contradicts your idea that only angels are called "sons of God", which is why you always are careful to qualify your ruling that it's "in the OT" where Sons of God always equals angels. What possible difference does that make? Since God says all that are led by His Spirit do you think He forgot to mention this qualifier of yours?

Plus He's already called humans "sons" in the OT as well.

A son of God is a being that is either created by God ie: Adam who was created by God Himself from the dust.

the son of Enos, the son of Seth, the son of Adam, the son of God. Luke 3:38

The offspring of Adam are called sons of men or daughters of men.

"God is not a man, that He should lie, Nor a son of man, that He should repent. Has He said, and will He not do? Or has He spoken, and will He not make it good. Numbers 23:19

and again -

As God overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah And their neighbors," says the Lord, "So no one shall reside there, Nor son of man dwell in it. Jeremiah 50:40

and again -

And He said to me, "Son of man, stand on your feet, and I will speak to you." Ezekiel 2:1



Agreed, but brother, God can produce a human "son of God" in the OT just as easily as He can produce a son the NT. Which is why Paul is accurate to say all that are led by the Spirit are called sons of God and Jesus is accurate to teach us to pray to The Father and is why we call each other brothers and sisters.

Romans 8:12-13 So then, brothers, we are obligated not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh. For if you live according to the flesh, you are going to die, but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.

So then, brothers, we are obligated not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh [like choosing a non-Godly woman who is merely a "daughter of man" we happen to find physically attractive as a wife, see Gen 6:. ].

For
if you live according to the flesh, you are going to die [not sure why Paul doesn't say you are going to be in a process of torture forever in this verse, but whatever],

but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.


Romans 8:5 For those who are living according to the flesh are intent on the things of the flesh, but those who are living according to the Spirit are intent on the things of the Spirit.

This is no accident that Paul is contrasting those "living according to the Spirit" (i.e. a son of god) with those "living according to the flesh" and Moses is contrasting attractive "daughters of man" with sinful desires of "sons of God" (who by the way receive a punishment for their sins of living for only 120 years). I thought angels could not die? I guess these did after 120 years, huh? Or maybe they were not angels but rather men. Sinful men.

Genesis 6:1-3 And it happened that, when humankind began to multiply on the face of the ground, daughters were born to them. Then the sons of God saw the daughters of humankind, that they were beautiful. And they took for themselves wives from all that they chose. And Yahweh said, “My Spirit shall not abide with humankind forever in that he is also flesh. And his days shall be one hundred and twenty years.”

Then comes the flood.

Romans 8:8 and those who are in the flesh are not able to please God. ... For if you live according to the flesh, you are going to die,
Then comes the Final Judgment.


We as believers in Jesus Christ are "born of God'.

Whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and everyone who loves Him who begot also loves him who is begotten of Him. 1 John 5:1


In the Old Testament Jesus Christ had not been born, nor Crucified nor risen from the dead, so no one could be "born of God" yet.

If there was some "other way" for a son of man to be born of God then there wouldn't have been any need for Jesus to go what He went through so that we could believe on Him and be saved.

The blood of bulls and goats can never take away sins -

For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and goats could take away sins. Hebrews 10:4

  • We will not be called sons of God until the resurrection.

35 But those who are counted worthy to attain that age, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry nor are given in marriage; 36 nor can they die anymore, for they are equal to the angels and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection. Luke 20:35-36

and again -

19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God. 20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope, 21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. 22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now. 23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body. Romans 8:19-23


  • At the present we have the power to become sons of God.
12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: 13 Which were born , not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.



  • The salvation of your soul is the end of your faith.
9 Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls. 1 Peter 1:9


A son of God can not be produced by a man and a women through natural child birth.

That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. John 3:6


JLB
 
:amen:amen

:whirl:whirl:whirl:whirl:whirl:whirl:whirl:whirl:whirl:whirl:whirl:whirl
:sohappy:sohappy:sohappy:sohappy:sohappy:sohappy:sohappy:sohappy:sohappy:sohappy:sohappy:sohappy
:thumbsup:thumbsup :biggrin2:biggrin2:biggrin2:biggrin2:biggrin2:biggrin2:biggrin2 :halo:halo:halo:halo:halo:halo:halo
sometimes, english ain't so bad, eh ! :)

Was this the case in the Old testament, before Jesus went to the cross?

Or do you claim there was some other way in the OT for men to be born of God?


JLB
 
In the Old Testament Jesus Christ had not been born, nor Crucified nor risen from the dead, so no one could be "born of God" yet.
JLB

I disagree with the underlined portion of your statement. The underlined portion of my text being one of several that show you are wrong.

Isaiah 1:2-3 Hear, heavens,and listen, earth,for Yahweh has spoken:“I reared children and I brought them up,but they rebelled against me. An ox knows its ownerand a donkey the manger of its master.Israel does not know;my people do not understand.

The rest of your post, I agree with. Those are some good Scriptures as is the Rom 8:14 passage. Not quite sure how any of them prove that the sons of God in Gen 6 were not humans receiving a punishment of a 120 year max life span or how it prevents God from calling His Spirit led children sons in the OT though.
 
I disagree with the underlined portion of your statement. The underlined portion of my text being one of several that show you are wrong.

Isaiah 1:2-3 Hear, heavens,and listen, earth,for Yahweh has spoken:“I reared children and I brought them up,but they rebelled against me. An ox knows its ownerand a donkey the manger of its master.Israel does not know;my people do not understand.

The rest of your post, I agree with. Those are some good Scriptures as is the Rom 8:14 passage. Not quite sure how any of them prove that the sons of God in Gen 6 were not humans receiving a punishment of a 120 year max life span or how it prevents God from calling His Spirit led children sons in the OT though.


A man and a woman can not produce a son of God.

If you have a scripture that shows that a son of God can be reproduced from a man and a woman, please show it.

The term sons of God in the old testament was a reference to angels.

6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan also came among them. 7 And the Lord said to Satan, "From where do you come?" So Satan answered the Lord and said, "From going to and fro on the earth, and from walking back and forth on it." Job 1:6-7

and again -

When the morning stars sang together, And all the sons of God shouted for joy? Job 38:7

There were no sons of God that are listed in the genealogy from Adam to Noah, except Adam himself.

A human man and a human woman can not reproduce a son of God!

The verse in Genesis 6:2 is a clear designation between two different beings -

that the sons of God saw the daughters of men, that they were beautiful; and they took wives for themselves of all whom they chose.

Please show an Old Testament scripture where a man (son of man) and a (daughter of man) reproduced a son of God.

Jesus is the only Begotten of the Father!


JLB
 
Here is what the Condensed Biblical Cyclopedia has to say:

Condensed Biblical Cyclopedia
Sons of God:

The descendants of Seth were called by the name of the Lord (Genesis 4:25-26). This is not true in reference to the descendants of Cain. The servants of God in all ages have been called the sons of God (Job 1:6; Romans 8:14; 1 John 3:2). The character of Seth's descendants proves that they were the sons of God (Genesis 5:3-29; Genesis 6:9; Genesis 7:1). The character of Cain's descendants proves that they were not the sons of God, for Cain himself was a murderer, a fugitive, and vagabond (Genesis 4:8-14), and his descendants were polygamists and murderers (Genesis 4:17-23).
________________________________

I would not myself make this case because my understanding is that it is the entire group of believers that are the sons of God. Still, it is a more reasonable belief than the alternative. Jesus outright told us that angels don't marry. And as far as the whole "sons of God can't be born of natural parents" thing goes, all sons of God (except angels) are. You've taken another truth (that we must be born of the Holy Spirit) and changed it to suit your purpose.
 
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A man and a woman can not produce a son of God.
...

A human man and a human woman can not reproduce a son of God!
JLB

I agree! But God through His Spirit sure can and did. Even in the OT.

You didn't say. Why do you think God told Isaiah in the OT that He had reared children?

Isaiah 1:2-3 Hear, heavens,and listen, earth,for Yahweh has spoken:“I reared children and I brought them up,but they rebelled against me. An ox knows its owner and a donkey the manger of its master.Israel does not know;my people do not understand.
 
I just asked my Google Calculator about this. It pointed me to the Wiki which said:

The term "son of God" is sometimes used in the Old and New Testaments of the Bible to refer to those with special relationships with God. In the Old Testament, angels, just and pious men, the descendants of Seth, and the kings of Israel are all called "sons of God."[2] In the New Testament, Adam,[3]and, most notably, Jesus Christ[2] are called "son of God," while followers of Jesus are called, "sons of God."[4]

_______________________
Wiki Footnotes:
  1. Introduction to the Science of Religion by Friedrich Muller 2004 ISBN 1-4179-7401-X page 136
  2. Catholic Encyclopedia: Son of God
  3. Luke:3:38 {{{2}}}
  4. International Standard Bible Encyclopedia: Sons of God (New Testament)
__________________________________​

It should be noted that there was a difference between worldly kings and rulers who claimed direct connection to a deity and they way Jewish kings presented themselves. Unlike Pharaohs, Jewish kings rarely acted as priests (not until David, a type of Christ - our Priest/King), nor were prayers addressed directly to them. Rather, prayers concerning the king are addressed directly to God. The Jewish Kings did not pretend to be demi-gods like the rulers of the surrounding nations did.
 
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We also should remember who we are talking about here when we speak of the chosen people of the Covenant of the Law They would not so much as mention God's name and had a better understanding of His holiness than many here. When Jesus suggested that He was God's son (which God also declared), they immediately took up rocks to stone him for sacrilege. Sacrilege is the violation or injurious treatment of a sacred object or person. It's thousands of times worse than "How dare he?!?":grumpy

Does it really surprise us to find that they didn't call themselves "sons of God"? They would not even pronounce their Fathers name. Probably a good thing, right? They had taken the "holier than thou" and ritual washings to the extreme already, thinking way too much of themselves. They understood His holiness but could not fathom His Goodness and Grace.

But God does not change. We can look at Hosea 11:1 where God speaks of Israel as His son. There are other examples where God mentions His relationship with His Children, his stubborn children... The Holy Spirit communicated the utter holiness of God. We know that holiness means separate and apart. God alone is "Holy, holy, holy" and the Jews knew and trembled. During the time of Moses they saw and felt the mountain shake by His presence. They saw that no flesh could approach Him. Even the bird died.

Many today have lost the understanding of who God is. They've exchanged the God of Heaven, Lord and ruler of all(!) with a concept that has been brought (in part) by fairy tales.
 
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We also should remember who we are talking about here when we speak of the chosen people of the Covenant of the Law They would not so much as mention God's name and had a better understanding of His holiness than many here. When Jesus suggested that He was God's son (which God also declared), they immediately took up rocks to stone him.

Does it really surprise us to find that they didn't call themselves "sons of God"? They would not even pronounce their Fathers name. Probably a good thing, right? They had taken the "holier than thou" and ritual washings to the extreme already, thinking way too much of themselves. They understood His holiness but could not fathom His Goodness and Grace.

But God does not change. We can look at Hosea 11:1 where God speaks of Israel as His son.

1 "When Israel was a child, I loved him, And out of Egypt I called My son. Hosea 11:1

This is a reference to Jesus Christ, not a whole nation of people.


14 When he arose, he took the young Child and His mother by night and departed for Egypt, 15 and was there until the death of Herod, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the Lord through the prophet, saying, "Out of Egypt I called My Son."Matthew 2:14-15

Israel is a reference to Jesus Christ, in the context of Hosea 11:1.


The question is: Can a man and a woman produce a son of God, through the process of natural child birth.

If you believe they can, please provide a scripture that shows us this phenomenon.


JLB
 
I agree! But God through His Spirit sure can and did. Even in the OT.

You didn't say. Why do you think God told Isaiah in the OT that He had reared children?

Isaiah 1:2-3 Hear, heavens,and listen, earth,for Yahweh has spoken:“I reared children and I brought them up,but they rebelled against me. An ox knows its owner and a donkey the manger of its master.Israel does not know;my people do not understand.


2 Hear, O heavens, and give ear, O earth! For the Lord has spoken: " I have nourished and brought up children, And they have rebelled against Me; 3 The ox knows its owner And the donkey its master's crib; But Israel does not know, My people do not consider." 4 Alas, sinful nation, A people laden with iniquity, A brood of evildoers, Children who are corrupters! They have forsaken the Lord, They have provoked to anger The Holy One of Israel, They have turned away backward. Isaiah 11:1-4

Whose children did God nourish and bring up and take care of and provide Manna and water for in the wilderness?

Did He begat them?




JLB
 
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