Another Gospel?

[jaybo]

Those who don't place their faith in it (Hebrews 4:2).

Wrong. God's sacrifice of His Son applies to everyone. John 3:17, "Indeed, God did not send the Son into the world to condemn the world but in order that the world might be saved through him." Clearly, not one single person is excluded. You must have faith to claim the promise, but that doesn't invalidate to whom it applies.

 

[justbyfaith]

Wrong. God's sacrifice of His Son applies to everyone. John 3:17, "Indeed, God did not send the Son into the world to condemn the world but in order that the world might be saved through him." Clearly, not one single person is excluded. You must have faith to claim the promise, but that doesn't invalidate to whom it applies.

Nope. It is appropriated by faith. If hearing the message is not mixed with faith, the message does not avail for you and will not profit you.

Heb 4:2, For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.

Clearly, Jesus did die for the sins of the world....which means that no one in the world is excluded from being able to appropriate that sacrifice by faith...

However, it should be clear that we do not enter into grace apart from having faith in Jesus Christ.

Rom 5:1, Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:
Rom 5:2, By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

 

[GodsGrace]

Nope. It is appropriated by faith. If hearing the message is not mixed with faith, the message does not avail for you and will not profit you.

Heb 4:2, For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.

Clearly, Jesus did die for the sins of the world....which means that no one in the world is excluded from being able to appropriate that sacrifice by faith...

However, it should be clear that we do not enter into grace apart from having faith in Jesus Christ.

Rom 5:1, Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:
Rom 5:2, By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

Well said.
What you've stated is correct.
I don't think jaybo realizes that stated his way he is stating universalism. I don't THINK he believes in universalism but I could be wrong.

 

[jaybo]

Nope. It is appropriated by faith. If hearing the message is not mixed with faith, the message does not avail for you and will not profit you.

Heb 4:2, For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.

Clearly, Jesus did die for the sins of the world....which means that no one in the world is excluded from being able to appropriate that sacrifice by faith...

However, it should be clear that we do not enter into grace apart from having faith in Jesus Christ.

Rom 5:1, Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:
Rom 5:2, By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

I agree. It is appropriated -- take for one's own use -- but available to everyone.

 

[Robert Pate]

A Christian Pharisee is someone that believes in Jesus, but also believes that they must keep the law of Moses. They are also known as Judaizers. There were many Judaizers in the early church. They believed that Jesus was their Messiah, but they could not turn lose of the Mosiac law and live by faith in Christ and his Gospel. The Judaizers were a real problem for Paul. The Gospel of Jesus Christ is revolutionary, because it requires one to abandone their law keeping religion and trust in Christ alone. Paul said to them, "Therefore by the deeds of the law (what you do) there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin" Romans 3:20.

Law and grace do not mix very well. Trying to live by law and grace will cause one to doubt their salvation and cause them to be confused. I know because I have been there. The law requires perfection, no one has it to offer. This is why Paul said, "There is none righteous, no, not one, for all have sinned and come short of the glory of God" Romans 3:10. 23. Our old Adamic nature cannot be rehabilitated by the works of the law. If it could then Jesus lived and died in vain.

 

[Robert Pate]

The only one that was qualified to teach the law was Jesus Christ. All others are hypocrites. This was the problem between Jesus and the Pharisees. Jesus taught the law because he was qualified, he was without sin. The Pharisees were not qualified to teach the law because they were sinners born after Adam. In the 23rd chapter of Matthew Jesus exposes their hypocrisy. Seven times he calls them hypocrites. Besides that, he calls them, Blind guides, fools, white sepulchers, snakes, sons of hell, etc.

The first step to becoming saved is to admit that you are a sinner. If you don't think that you have violated God's law, you will never be saved. The Pharisees did not see themselves as sinners. They saw themselves as righteous. When Jesus pointed out their hypocrisy, they planned on killing him.

 

[Robert Pate]

Many believe that their salvation is dependent upon their good works, their piety, their obedience, their religion, their something. Whatever it is that they believe their salvation is dependent upon, regardless of what it is, they are going to be disappointed in the judgment.

Jesus said: "Many will say to me on that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in your name? and in your name cast out devils? and in your name done many wonderful works? And then I will profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me you that work iniquity." Matthew 7:22-23.

This is some very serious scripture. These people were calling Jesus "Lord". They knew who he was, He was Lord. Yet Jesus rejected them. Jesus rejected them because they thought that salvation was by Jesus plus something, which was apparently their good works or their obedience to the law.

To add anything to Gospel, like works or obedience is a perversion of the Gospel. What they were really saying is what Jesus did in his life death and resurrection was not enough to save them and they must do something to save themselves. The something, whatever it is, is what damned them to hell. Jesus never knew them, because they had never called upon Jesus to save them, Romans 10:13. Instead, they were trusting in themselves and their something.

Salvation is by Jesus plus nothing. Jesus has victoriously fulfilled all of the demands of God's Holy Law, Matthew 5:18. Jesus has atoned for our sins and the sins of the whole world, 1 John 2:2. Everything has been accomplished. We are complete in him, Colossians 2:10. All that is required of us is to believe and have faith in what Jesus has accomplished for us. Jesus has victoriously reconciled us and the world unto God, 2 Corinthians 5:18-19.

All that are trusting in Jesus plus nothing have entered into eternal life. They are "In Christ" and Christ is in heaven, Colossians 3:3. God sees them as perfect and complete "In Christ". No laws, rules or religion needed.

 

[Robert Pate]

That only thing that God requires for the salvation of fallen man is faith. Faith in the work and the person of Jesus Christ, Ephesians 2:8. Many believe that their salvation is dependent upon their good works, their piety, their obedience, their something. If salvation was dependent upon our works, our obedience, our piety, then Jesus lived and died in vain.

Jesus said, "Not everyone that says to me Lord, Lord, shall enter into the Kingdom of heaven; but he that does the will of the father which is in heaven" Matthew 7:21. The will of the Father is that you believe in his Son Jesus Christ.

Many will say to me on that day (judgment day) Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in your name? and in your name cast out devils? and in your name done many wonderful works? Matthew 7:22.

This is some very serious scriptures. Not only are these people calling Jesus Lord, they are also doing good works, yet Jesus rejected them. Jesus said, "And then I will profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, you that work iniquity" Matthew 7:23.

Why did Jesus reject them? Jesus rejected them because they were trusting in their works and not in his works. Jesus is the one that fulfilled all of the demands of God's Holy Law, Matthew 5:18. Jesus is the one that atoned for our sins and the sin of the whole world, 1 John 2:2. We are complete in him, Colossians 2:10.

These people, whoever they are, placed their good works ahead of Jesus works and subrogated the way of salvation. Good works are the results of salvation, not the cause of it. We first trust in Christ and his Gospel and receive the Holy Spirit. It is the work of the Holy Spirit to produce good works and the Christian life, Ephesians 2:10. It is all of God.

To add anything to the Gospel, like works or obedience is to pervert the Gospel, Galatians 1:6-7. Those that do this are really saying that the work of Christ was not sufficient to save them and that they must do something to save themselves. The problem with that is that God does not accept the works or the obedience of sinners, which we are all one of. God only accepts the works and the obedience of Jesus Christ. We are accepted only in him and because of him.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

I guess if a man is only interested in what he can get out of Jesus, then the above is comforting. He doesn't need to do anything, be anything different, just give mental agreement with a set of beliefs, one of which is belief itself is all he needs to do, and his eternal security is guaranteed. To the narcissist man, this sounds good...just believe you are going to heaven because you believe you are going to Heaven and Heaven will be yours....oh yes, add Jesus to the mix of course.

 

[Life after death]

You are still ignoring everything. You have no Scriptural proof that Matthew Mark Luke and John were written under the old covenant. Do you reject Jesus word? Do you reject the parts of the Bible you don't like? They were written after the Pauline Epistles. Also I quoted Hebrews, is that not accepted. Plus God's word is God's word, and we can't let our preferences refute that. I will ask you again, do you believe that you can live a life of sin and get into heaven with an unrepentant heart? You don't understand how faith works. Faith is an action verb. If your faith is genuine it immediately result in works. Actually read everything I said before responding.

Do you think professing your sin to Christ and willingness to obey his word can be considered as works that followed a saving faith or are you only talking about keeping laws. Can you clarify what you mean by work?

 

[Life after death]

So is Colossians and Matthew a contradiction or is the understanding of it is?

having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross. - Colossians 2:14

That clearly means the JUDGEMENT of the law is abolished not the Law itself. The Law demanded punishment of our sin from God, what God did was stand in the place of our punishment and satisfy the Law's demand. So whoever accepts Christ is free from that judgement. But those who step out of Christ, reject Christ, reject His salvation and take the blow Jesus took for us. But does that mean the Law is gone and we are free to do what we want? Surely not my friend. Should we sin so grace may abound, surely not my friend.

Matthew 5:17-19
“Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

But how about things like keeping the Sabbath or be circumcised that are in the law if you not keeping them. Are you going to against Jesus's command? I don't think so. So what did Jesus mean by keeping the law? It must be something bigger than keeping the written law. I think it is about knowing the spirit behind the law. That is closely related to wanting to loving him and wanting to obey his command. Not just for the sake of obeying the commands but for showing your love through obeying his commands. I think that was the purpose of the law.
I am sorry if I talked to much but I want to know what you think about this

 

[Life after death]

Jesus never did preach the Gospel that justifies the ungodly, Romans 4:5 and reconciles us and the world unto God, 2 Corinthians 5:18-19. He left that up to the apostles. Jesus was a teacher of the Mosiac law. The purpose of the Mosiac law is to convict of sin and to reveal the righteousness of God. Another purpose of the law is to bring us to Christ so that we can be justified by faith, Galatians 3:24. Baptism is a work, any religious thing that we do is a work. God does not accept the works or the obedience of sinners. God only accepts the works and the obedience of Jesus Christ, Romans 4:5. We are accepted only in him and because of him. Under the New Covenant we are saved and justified by faith alone. It is by faith alone, because it is by Christ alone.

It is correct we were saved by faith alone. But what does it mean to have faith in Jesus? It's to surrender to him and to love him. And if you love him you will keep his commandments to show your love to him. John 14:15. If you claim to have faith in him and if that faith Does not lead you to wanting to keep his commandments you should question your faith.

 

[Life after death]

Works, Law keeping, Religion are all under the judgment of God.

This is why Paul wrote, "But to him that does no works, but believes on him that justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness" Romans 4:5.

It didn't work for the Pharisees, and it is not going to work for you, See Matthew the 23rd chapter.

Brother if you consider everything as work then even the very act of praying will be work. faith and praying are two different things. but if you don't pray how are you going to profess your faith? Can you say I have faith and I don't have to engage in the act of praying to profess my faith in Jesus because it's work and I was saved by faith alone? This is why it is written in James: James 2: 20: But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

 

[Soldiers]

Do you think professing your sin to Christ and willingness to obey his word can be considered as works that followed a saving faith or are you only talking about keeping laws. Can you clarify what you mean by work?

Faith is the substance of things hoped for and the evidence of things unseen. In this case faith is the thesis of your claim to what or whomever you claim. Works is the evidence to back your claim.

However works alone cannot suffice because we cannot do it alone, our best righteousness is filthy rags as it says in Isaiah. Faith in Christ is trusting that he is who he says he is and that he will do what he said he will do. But faith without works is dead, why? Because if there is no works to back up your faith that means there was no real living faith in the first place. Who does the works, not us, the Holy Spirit but if we don't let the Holy Spirit work, we cannot be sanctified and the flesh doesn't want us to be sanctified. So the "work" can Here's an illustration for clarification. It's not by us that our flesh is slain but by Christ, but we have to fight to stay of the altar as the living sacrifice (Romans 12:2) because the devil & demons don't want us to stay

But how about things like keeping the Sabbath or be circumcised that are in the law if you not keeping them. Are you going to against Jesus's command? I don't think so. So what did Jesus mean by keeping the law? It must be something bigger than keeping the written law. I think it is about knowing the spirit behind the law. That is closely related to wanting to loving him and wanting to obey his command. Not just for the sake of obeying the commands but for showing your love through obeying his commands. I think that was the purpose of the law.
I am sorry if I talked to much but I want to know what you think about this

No no, I welcome genuine interest in a subject. So you're correct and even in the old testament, (Isaiah speak a lot about this) about God caring less about physical circumcision but really wants spiritual circumcision. Circumcision is only a physical representation of the spiritual, like baptism and marriage. I haven't gotten into the Sabbath too much so i need to do further research. Jesus meant allowing the Spirit to endow us with Him and our part is to not interfere with that process which means resisting the devil and not getting off the altar of a living sacrifice.

 

[donadams]

Eph 2:8 says nothing about works or your faith

Why don’t you question Paul or even Christ? Per the following

When I was a member of the organized church, I would question pastors and other teachers about what they were preaching. The religious don't have the freedom to do that. I have never heard a Catholic criticize the Catholic church or the pope. In spite of all of the corruption within the Catholic church.

The true religion is revealed not discovered in scripture!

 

[Randy]

Paul wrote to the Galatians, "I marvel that you are soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another Gospel: which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the Gospel of Christ. But though we or an angel from heaven, preach any other Gospel unto you than what we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other Gospel unto you than what you have received, let him be accursed, Galatians 1:6-9.

There is only one Gospel that justifies the ungodly, Romans 4:5 and reconciles us and the world unto God, 2 Corinthians 5:18-19.

Paul said, "For by grace (God's goodness) are you saved through faith; and not that of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast" Ephesians 2:8-9.

In Ephesians 2:8-9, Paul eliminated works as a means of salvation. The reason that salvation is not by works is because it is the gift of God. A gift cannot be earned or deserved otherwise it is not a gift. Some will say that the word "Grace" in this scripture means the grace of Christ. The word grace in this scripture means the grace of God. God was gracious in that he sent his Son to be the savior of the world, John 3:17.

Paul said, "Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin" Romans 3:20.

Paul makes it clear that salvation is not by works, nor is it by obedience to the law. If it is not by works or obedience to the law, then it can only be by faith and by faith alone.

We do not serve God in the old way of the written code but in the new way of the Spirit. And our righteousness is credited by faith in Christ Jesus not by our own works.

However, the command of love exists by Christs command and those who love fulfill whatever commandment there is for love does no harm to a neighbor.

Jesus said unto him, “Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets”

Let no debt remain outstanding, except the continuing debt to love one another, for whoever loves others has fulfilled the law. 9 The commandments, “You shall not commit adultery,” “You shall not murder,” “You shall not steal,” “You shall not covet,” and whatever other command there may be, are summed up in this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.”10 Love does no harm to a neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.

Jesus=>Remain in me, as I also remain in you. No branch can bear fruit by itself; it must remain in the vine. Neither can you bear fruit unless you remain in me.

A certain ruler asked him, “Good teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life?”
19“Why do you call me good?” Jesus answered. “No one is good—except God alone. 20You know the commandments: ‘You shall not commit adultery, you shall not murder, you shall not steal, you shall not give false testimony, honor your father and mother.’

So, there is a difference in the ceremonial law vs the moral law. The moral law has not been abolished. The ceremonial law was a shadow of things to come.

And the body of Christ from peoples of all nations is not a physical nation nor a theocracy of Israel which was disbanded.

It is clear we are not free to sin.
The Moral law of God would be fulfilled as Paul and Jesus stated by Loving others as yourself.
Lawlessness, crime, immorality are addressed in the Moral law of God which states Gods character. (Love)

 

[donadams]

Is love or charity love of God required for salvation?

 

[BB1956]

You keep posting the same false argument in slightly different guises.
Then when you are show to be wrong you try again.

I'm not going to waste much time on this but the main flaws are:
1. When Paul writes of the law he mean the Old (Sinai) Covenant law, not all law.
2. Not all actions we do are works, and certainly not works that earn us salvation.
3. Some things we do are in obedience to Christ's commands. Do you think doing something Christ commands is a work that earns salvation?
4. Nowhere does scripture say that salvation is by faith alone.

The commands that Jesus gives us we obey simply and only because we love the Father and God of Jesus Christ and his only begotten Son Jesus because they have always loved us first. So because of that love they have always shown us, we reciprocate that love by loving them so much that we exercise faith in the Father and God of Jesus Christ and his only begotten Son that they know best how we should love the true God and his only begotten Son so much that when God through Jesus teaches us how to love the true God and our neighbors we strive to live by what they say as best we possibly can.(Mark 12:30) We can't live a perfect life but we can by asking God for his Holy Spirit live our lives by not practicing sin. Practicing sin and making mistakes are not the same thing. We're not going to live perfect human lives by not ever making mistakes, but we can by asking God for his Holy Spirit live our lives without practicing sin.

 

[Robert Pate]

The just shall live by faith because there is no other way to live than by faith.

The law has been fulfilled and abolished, Romans 10:4. Jesus has atoned for our sins and the sins of the whole world, 1 John 2:2. What's left? There is nothing left for us to do than to live by faith in Christ and his Gospel. We have been made free from the law and religion, Galatians 5:1-4.

In Jesus Christ we have been justified, sanctified and redeemed and now stand before God as perfect and complete "In Christ", Colossians 2:10. Spiritually, we are "In Christ" and Christ is in heaven. Jesus has made us acceptable to God, Ephesians 1:6.

Everyone that believes this Gospel have entered into his rest. They have ceased from their own works (religion) and are resting in his works, Hebrews 4:10. This is why the just (justified) shall live by faith, Romans 1:17.

 

[Hidden In Him]

The just shall live by faith because there is no other way to live than by faith.

The law has been fulfilled and abolished, Romans 10:4. Jesus has atoned for our sins and the sins of the whole world, 1 John 2:2. What's left? There is nothing left for us to do than to live by faith in Christ and his Gospel. We have been made free from the law and religion, Galatians 5:1-4.

In Jesus Christ we have been justified, sanctified and redeemed and now stand before God as perfect and complete "In Christ", Colossians 2:10. Spiritually, we are "In Christ" and Christ is in heaven. Jesus has made us acceptable to God, Ephesians 1:6.

Everyone that believes this Gospel have entered into his rest. They have ceased from their own works (religion) and are resting in his works, Hebrews 4:10. This is why the just (justified) shall live by faith, Romans 1:17.

There are a whole bunch of problems with this post, Robert.

The law said that we are to love the Old Testament God with our whole heart, mind, soul and strength, and Jesus confirmed this to be the greatest commandment, so it should not be taught that we no longer need to submit to God's laws. If we do, we will see no need to obey Him in the things most important to Him, and can be assured of nothing when that is the case.

God bless,
Hidden