Another Gospel?

[Iconoclast]

But the whole world is reconciled to God.

Reconciliation, in Christian theology, is an element of salvation that refers to the results of atonement. Reconciliation is the end of the estrangement, caused by original sin, between God and humanity.

Reconciliation is the end of the estrangement, caused by original sin, between God and humanity. By Jesus' sacrifice the entire world is reconciled to its maker. All sin has been paid for. All anyone has to do is accept Jesus' sacrifice on their behalf. God has done His part. The rest is up to people.

Romans 5:6-11, "For while we were still weak, at the right time Christ died for the ungodly. Indeed, rarely will anyone die for a righteous person—though perhaps for a good person someone might actually dare to die. But God proves his love for us in that while we still were sinners Christ died for us. Much more surely, therefore, since we have now been justified by his blood, will we be saved through him from the wrath of God. For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of his Son, much more surely, having been reconciled, will we be saved by his life. But more than that, we even boast in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation."

Happy Easter to everyone!

This is a total fiction. Multitudes will die in their sins. Multitudes already have.They are in no way reconciled to a Holy God, and will be cast into second death.

 

[Robert Pate]

This is a total fiction. Multitudes will die in their sins. Multitudes already have.They are in no way reconciled to a Holy God, and will be cast into second death.

They will die in their sins because of unbelief. They have rejected God's great free offer of salvation by grace through faith, Ephesians 2:8. The law has been fulfilled and abolished, Ephesians 2:15. Jesus has atoned for the sins of the whole world, 1 John 2:2. If you want to be saved all that you have to do is ask him to save you, Romans 10:13.

 

[jaybo]

You are a breath of fresh air.

Thanks!

 

[GodsGrace]

But the whole world is reconciled to God.

This would mean that the whole world is saved.
Reconciled has a specific meaning in theology....
it means that loving peace has been achieved between two parties and they are now friends again.
In God's case, we are His children and He is our Father. We are sons.

This is what reconciliation looks like:

Reconciliation, in Christian theology, is an element of salvation that refers to the results of atonement. Reconciliation is the end of the estrangement, caused by original sin, between God and humanity.

Reconciliation is the end of the estrangement, caused by original sin, between God and humanity. By Jesus' sacrifice the entire world is reconciled to its maker. All sin has been paid for. All anyone has to do is accept Jesus' sacrifice on their behalf. God has done His part. The rest is up to people.

Romans 5:6-11, "For while we were still weak, at the right time Christ died for the ungodly. Indeed, rarely will anyone die for a righteous person—though perhaps for a good person someone might actually dare to die. But God proves his love for us in that while we still were sinners Christ died for us. Much more surely, therefore, since we have now been justified by his blood, will we be saved through him from the wrath of God. For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of his Son, much more surely, having been reconciled, will we be saved by his life. But more than that, we even boast in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation."

Happy Easter to everyone!

Here is Romans 5:6-11
6For while we were still helpless, at the right time Christ died for the ungodly.
7For one will hardly die for a righteous man; though perhaps for the good man someone would dare even to die.
8But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
9Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from the wrath of God through Him. 10For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life.
11And not only this, but we also exult in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received the reconciliation.



Please note that the above verses you posted are addressed to believers.
It says that WE HAVE NOW RECEIVED the reconciliation.
While WE WERE STILL SINNERS, WE were reconciled to God.
Jesus died for the sins of the world....this is correct,
1 John 2:2
But in order to take advantage of this death which bought us back from satan's power,
we must be reconciled to God.


2 Corinthians 5:17-19
17Therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creature; the old things passed away; behold, new things have come.
18Now all these things are from God, who reconciled us to Himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation,
19namely, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and He has committed to us the word of reconciliation.


Ditto, as above.

 

[Iconoclast]

They will die in their sins because of unbelief. They have rejected God's great free offer of salvation by grace through faith, Ephesians 2:8. The law has been fulfilled and abolished, Ephesians 2:15. Jesus has atoned for the sins of the whole world, 1 John 2:2. If you want to be saved all that you have to do is ask him to save you, Romans 10:13.

If they die in unbelief,they have never been reconciled to God .Once again you teach falsehoods.

 

[jaybo]

Again, the whole world is reconciled to God.

Romans 5:10, "For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of his Son, much more surely, having been reconciled, will we be saved by his life."

Romans 11:13-15, "Now I am speaking to you gentiles. Inasmuch as I am an apostle to the gentiles, I celebrate my ministry in order to make my own people[e] jealous and thus save some of them. For if their rejection is the reconciliation of the world, what will their acceptance be but life from the dead?

2 Corinthians 5:18-19, "All this is from God, who reconciled us to himself through Christ and has given us the ministry of reconciliation; that is, in Christ God was reconciling the world to himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and entrusting the message of reconciliation to us."

Ephesians 2:8-9, "For by grace you have been saved through faith, and this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God—not the result of works, so that no one may boast."

Ephesians 2:11-16, "So then, remember that at one time you gentiles by birth, called “the uncircumcision” by those who are called “the circumcision”—a circumcision made in the flesh by human hands— remember that you were at that time without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world. But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ. For he is our peace; in his flesh he has made both into one and has broken down the dividing wall, that is, the hostility between us, abolishing the law with its commandments and ordinances, that he might create in himself one new humanity in place of the two, thus making peace, and might reconcile both to God in one body through the cross, thus putting to death that hostility through it."

Colossians 1:17-20, "He himself is before all things, and in him all things hold together. He is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, so that he might come to have first place in everything. For in him all the fullness of God[k] was pleased to dwell, and through him God was pleased to reconcile to himself all things, whether on earth or in heaven, by making peace through the blood of his cross."

The whole world is saved! No person has to qualify by doing any deeds; God has forgiven them.

Ephesians 2:1-10, "You were dead through the trespasses and sins in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the ruler of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work among those who are disobedient. All of us once lived among them in the passions of our flesh, doing the will of flesh and senses, and we were by nature children of wrath, like everyone else, but God, who is rich in mercy, out of the great love with which he loved us even when we were dead through our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved— and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, so that in the ages to come he might show the immeasurable riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. For by grace you have been saved through faith, and this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God— not the result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are what he has made us, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we may walk in them."

 

[Iconoclast]

Again, the whole world is reconciled to God.

Romans 5:10, "For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of his Son, much more surely, having been reconciled, will we be saved by his life."

Romans 11:13-15, "Now I am speaking to you gentiles. Inasmuch as I am an apostle to the gentiles, I celebrate my ministry in order to make my own people[e] jealous and thus save some of them. For if their rejection is the reconciliation of the world, what will their acceptance be but life from the dead?

2 Corinthians 5:18-19, "All this is from God, who reconciled us to himself through Christ and has given us the ministry of reconciliation; that is, in Christ God was reconciling the world to himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and entrusting the message of reconciliation to us."

Ephesians 2:8-9, "For by grace you have been saved through faith, and this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God—not the result of works, so that no one may boast."

Ephesians 2:11-16, "So then, remember that at one time you gentiles by birth, called “the uncircumcision” by those who are called “the circumcision”—a circumcision made in the flesh by human hands— remember that you were at that time without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world. But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ. For he is our peace; in his flesh he has made both into one and has broken down the dividing wall, that is, the hostility between us, abolishing the law with its commandments and ordinances, that he might create in himself one new humanity in place of the two, thus making peace, and might reconcile both to God in one body through the cross, thus putting to death that hostility through it."

Colossians 1:17-20, "He himself is before all things, and in him all things hold together. He is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, so that he might come to have first place in everything. For in him all the fullness of God[k] was pleased to dwell, and through him God was pleased to reconcile to himself all things, whether on earth or in heaven, by making peace through the blood of his cross."

The whole world is saved! No person has to qualify by doing any deeds; God has forgiven them.

Ephesians 2:1-10, "You were dead through the trespasses and sins in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the ruler of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work among those who are disobedient. All of us once lived among them in the passions of our flesh, doing the will of flesh and senses, and we were by nature children of wrath, like everyone else, but God, who is rich in mercy, out of the great love with which he loved us even when we were dead through our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved— and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, so that in the ages to come he might show the immeasurable riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. For by grace you have been saved through faith, and this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God— not the result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are what he has made us, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we may walk in them."

Tell that to all those who are told to depart from me at the White Throne Judgment

 

[GodsGrace]

Again, the whole world is reconciled to God.

Romans 5:10, "For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of his Son, much more surely, having been reconciled, will we be saved by his life."

Romans 11:13-15, "Now I am speaking to you gentiles. Inasmuch as I am an apostle to the gentiles, I celebrate my ministry in order to make my own people[e] jealous and thus save some of them. For if their rejection is the reconciliation of the world, what will their acceptance be but life from the dead?

2 Corinthians 5:18-19, "All this is from God, who reconciled us to himself through Christ and has given us the ministry of reconciliation; that is, in Christ God was reconciling the world to himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and entrusting the message of reconciliation to us."

Ephesians 2:8-9, "For by grace you have been saved through faith, and this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God—not the result of works, so that no one may boast."

Ephesians 2:11-16, "So then, remember that at one time you gentiles by birth, called “the uncircumcision” by those who are called “the circumcision”—a circumcision made in the flesh by human hands— remember that you were at that time without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world. But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ. For he is our peace; in his flesh he has made both into one and has broken down the dividing wall, that is, the hostility between us, abolishing the law with its commandments and ordinances, that he might create in himself one new humanity in place of the two, thus making peace, and might reconcile both to God in one body through the cross, thus putting to death that hostility through it."

Colossians 1:17-20, "He himself is before all things, and in him all things hold together. He is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, so that he might come to have first place in everything. For in him all the fullness of God[k] was pleased to dwell, and through him God was pleased to reconcile to himself all things, whether on earth or in heaven, by making peace through the blood of his cross."

The whole world is saved! No person has to qualify by doing any deeds; God has forgiven them.

Ephesians 2:1-10, "You were dead through the trespasses and sins in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the ruler of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work among those who are disobedient. All of us once lived among them in the passions of our flesh, doing the will of flesh and senses, and we were by nature children of wrath, like everyone else, but God, who is rich in mercy, out of the great love with which he loved us even when we were dead through our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved— and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, so that in the ages to come he might show the immeasurable riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. For by grace you have been saved through faith, and this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God— not the result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are what he has made us, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we may walk in them."

Did you state above that the whole world is saved?
I think so.
This is confusing.
You're a universalist??

 

[jaybo]

Did you state above that the whole world is saved?
I think so.
This is confusing.
You're a universalist??

The whole world has the opportunity to be saved. That doesn't mean that everyone will accept Jesus' sacrifice on their behalf. But that doesn't negate the sacrifice!

I quoted Scripture several times in my post. The Bible says that God loved the world; that He didn't send His son to condemn the world but to save it (the entire world) through Him.

So tell me, to which people does Jesus' sacrifice not apply?

 

[GodsGrace]

The whole world has the opportunity to be saved. That doesn't mean that everyone will accept Jesus' sacrifice on their behalf. But that doesn't negate the sacrifice!

But this is what I mean...
We have to be careful with our words. There are persons who are reading along and everything we say has an impact.
You wrote in bold letter in your last post that everyone is saved.

Having an OPPORTUNITY to be saved is totally different and is correct.
Jesus died to atone for our sins.
To buy us back from the power of satan.
To be our example.
To be our redemption....and more.

Thus we have the opportunity to be saved.

But we must accept His sacrifice....
Or we're lost as lost as when we were born.

I quoted Scripture several times in my post. The Bible says that God loved the world; that He didn't send His son to condemn the world but to save it (the entire world) through Him.

So tell me, to which people does Jesus' sacrifice not apply?

Jesus BOUGHT BACK HUMANITY from the grasp of satan.
1 John 2:2
2and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world.
Jesus is the propitiation for the world's sins.

Propitiation is the act of appeasing or making well-disposed a deity, thus incurring divine favor or avoiding divine retribution.
source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propi... is the act of,and in the Christian tradition.

This means that God has now been satisfied with His great wrath at the disobedience of Adam.
Jesus death is for all time: Past, present and future.
All persons that have ever been saved, have been saved through the sacrifice of Jesus.
It is through Jesus that we can receive God's favor, as in Ephesians 2:8.

God so loved the world that He was gracious enough to give us a plan for our salvation.
We are saved by His grace, through our faith.

The only persons that are reconciled to God, are saved persons that have accepted Christ as their Lord and Savior.

 

[jaybo]

But this is what I mean...
We have to be careful with our words. There are persons who are reading along and everything we say has an impact.
You wrote in bold letter in your last post that everyone is saved.

Having an OPPORTUNITY to be saved is totally different and is correct.
Jesus died to atone for our sins.
To buy us back from the power of satan.
To be our example.
To be our redemption....and more.

Thus we have the opportunity to be saved.

But we must accept His sacrifice....
Or we're lost as lost as when we were born.



Jesus BOUGHT BACK HUMANITY from the grasp of satan.
1 John 2:2
2and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world.
Jesus is the propitiation for the world's sins.

Propitiation is the act of appeasing or making well-disposed a deity, thus incurring divine favor or avoiding divine retribution.
source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propitiation#:~:text=Propitiation is the act of,and in the Christian tradition.

This means that God has now been satisfied with His great wrath at the disobedience of Adam.
Jesus death is for all time: Past, present and future.
All persons that have ever been saved, have been saved through the sacrifice of Jesus.
It is through Jesus that we can receive God's favor, as in Ephesians 2:8.

God so loved the world that He was gracious enough to give us a plan for our salvation.
We are saved by His grace, through our faith.

The only persons that are reconciled to God, are saved persons that have accepted Christ as their Lord and Savior.

Okay. I think that we're just dealing with semantics. All people are reconciled to God, but they are saved only when they have accepted Christ as their Savior.

Romans 5:10, "For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of his Son, much more surely, having been reconciled, will we be saved by his life.

That is what Paul wrote. To me it is plainly stated and obvious.

 

[GodsGrace]

Okay. I think that we're just dealing with semantics. All people are reconciled to God, but they are saved only when they have accepted Christ as their Savior.

Romans 5:10, "For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of his Son, much more surely, having been reconciled, will we be saved by his life.

That is what Paul wrote. To me it is plainly stated and obvious.

Who is Romans 5:10 speaking to?
Who was reconciled to God?

 

[jaybo]

Who is Romans 5:10 speaking to?
Who was reconciled to God?

Romans 5:6-11, "For while we were still weak, at the right time Christ died for the ungodly. Indeed, rarely will anyone die for a righteous person—though perhaps for a good person someone might actually dare to die. But God proves his love for us in that while we still were sinners Christ died for us. Much more surely, therefore, since we have now been justified by his blood, will we be saved through him from the wrath of God. For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of his Son, much more surely, having been reconciled, will we be saved by his life. But more than that, we even boast in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation."

Now if you want to take a literal, narrow approach to interpreting what Paul wrote, he wrote this epistle to the church in Rome -- ONLY. He didn't write it to us, so therefore it (and the entire Bible) doesn't apply to us, correct?

Otherwise, if you take it as part of God's word, a) Christ died for the ungodly -- everyone! b) And while we -- everyone! -- still were sinners Christ died for us! and c) For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of his Son, much more surely, having been reconciled, will we be saved by his life." Now, to me it is more than obvious that Paul's epistle is included in the canon of Scripture because it is God's words to all people.

a) Christ died for the ungodly -- everyone.
b) God proves his love for us in that while we still were sinners Christ died for us.
c) Since we have now been justified by his blood, will we be saved through him from the wrath of God.
d) while we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of his Son
e) having been reconciled, will we be saved by his life
d) we even boast in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.

If this doesn't apply to everyone then the gospel has no meaning and everyone is doomed.

 

[GodsGrace]

Romans 5:6-11, "For while we were still weak, at the right time Christ died for the ungodly. Indeed, rarely will anyone die for a righteous person—though perhaps for a good person someone might actually dare to die. But God proves his love for us in that while we still were sinners Christ died for us. Much more surely, therefore, since we have now been justified by his blood, will we be saved through him from the wrath of God. For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of his Son, much more surely, having been reconciled, will we be saved by his life. But more than that, we even boast in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation."

Now if you want to take a literal, narrow approach to interpreting what Paul wrote, he wrote this epistle to the church in Rome -- ONLY. He didn't write it to us, so therefore it (and the entire Bible) doesn't apply to us, correct?

Otherwise, if you take it as part of God's word, a) Christ died for the ungodly -- everyone! b) And while we -- everyone! -- still were sinners Christ died for us! and c) For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of his Son, much more surely, having been reconciled, will we be saved by his life." Now, to me it is more than obvious that Paul's epistle is included in the canon of Scripture because it is God's words to all people.

a) Christ died for the ungodly -- everyone.
b) God proves his love for us in that while we still were sinners Christ died for us.
c) Since we have now been justified by his blood, will we be saved through him from the wrath of God.
d) while we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of his Son
e) having been reconciled, will we be saved by his life
d) we even boast in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.

If this doesn't apply to everyone then the gospel has no meaning and everyone is doomed.

Who is the WE you're highlighting?

 

[jaybo]

Who is the WE you're highlighting?

The ungodly, i.e., all people. Jesus died for everyone so that they could be reconciled to God..

 

[Iconoclast]

The whole world has the opportunity to be saved. That doesn't mean that everyone will accept Jesus' sacrifice on their behalf. But that doesn't negate the sacrifice!

I quoted Scripture several times in my post. The Bible says that God loved the world; that He didn't send His son to condemn the world but to save it (the entire world) through Him.

So tell me, to which people does Jesus' sacrifice not apply?

The non elect world of the ungodly who die outside of Jesus.

 

[justbyfaith]

So tell me, to which people does Jesus' sacrifice not apply?

Those who don't place their faith in it (Hebrews 4:2).

 

[GodsGrace]

The ungodly, i.e., all people. Jesus died for everyone so that they could be reconciled to God..

COULD be reconciled...
ARE reconciled...

are totally different statements
Jesus died for the whole world so that anyone wishing it COULD be reconciled to God IF they want to.

 

[jaybo]

COULD be reconciled...
ARE reconciled...

are totally different statements
Jesus died for the whole world so that anyone wishing it COULD be reconciled to God IF they want to.

All are reconciled to God by Jesus' sacrifice for all sin. Tell me, to whom does His sacrifice not apply?

Romans 5:10, "For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of his Son, much more surely, having been reconciled, will we be saved by his life."

Romans 11:15, "For if their rejection is the reconciliation of the world, what will their acceptance be but life from the dead?"

2 Corinthians 5:18-19, "All this is from God, who reconciled us to himself through Christ and has given us the ministry of reconciliation; that is, in Christ God was reconciling the world to himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and entrusting the message of reconciliation to us." => This clearly says that the entire world has been reconciled to God! <=

Colossians 1:19-20, "For in him all the fullness of God was pleased to dwell, and through him God was pleased to reconcile to himself all things, whether on earth or in heaven, by making peace through the blood of his cross." => This clearly says that the entire world -- all creation! -- has been reconciled to God! <=

 

[justbyfaith]

Tell me, to whom does His sacrifice not apply?

Those who don't place their faith in it (Hebrews 4:2).