Anti-Calvinists are exhausting!

[atpollard]

I just read through a number of topics here (now that I have been admitted) and the number of times that someone asks a question of a Reformed poster about what a Reformed Term means or what the Reformed teach and believe ... then receive a correct answer ... only to respond by telling the Reformed poster "NO. That is not what that means. Not what you teach. Not what you believe."

... Well, it is just plain exhausting to read.

So could someone explain to me the point of asking someone what they believe only to tell them that is NOT what they believe?
What sort of insanity is that?

[We should probably require FOOTNOTED references to support all opinions and a BIBLIOGRAPHY, like a term paper, to support any response to questions about what a term means or what a group teaches ... and "wikipedia" is not a source - just like in school.] ?

 

[jasonc]

I just read through a number of topics here (now that I have been admitted) and the number of times that someone asks a question of a Reformed poster about what a Reformed Term means or what the Reformed teach and believe ... then receive a correct answer ... only to respond by telling the Reformed poster "NO. That is not what that means. Not what you teach. Not what you believe."

... Well, it is just plain exhausting to read.

So could someone explain to me the point of asking someone what they believe only to tell them that is NOT what they believe?
What sort of insanity is that?

[We should probably require FOOTNOTED references to support all opinions and a BIBLIOGRAPHY, like a term paper, to support any response to questions about what a term means or what a group teaches ... and "wikipedia" is not a source - just like in school.] ?

I'm not reformed myself ,I attend a reformed church and noticed that here .

 

[jasonc]

I just read through a number of topics here (now that I have been admitted) and the number of times that someone asks a question of a Reformed poster about what a Reformed Term means or what the Reformed teach and believe ... then receive a correct answer ... only to respond by telling the Reformed poster "NO. That is not what that means. Not what you teach. Not what you believe."

... Well, it is just plain exhausting to read.

So could someone explain to me the point of asking someone what they believe only to tell them that is NOT what they believe?
What sort of insanity is that?

[We should probably require FOOTNOTED references to support all opinions and a BIBLIOGRAPHY, like a term paper, to support any response to questions about what a term means or what a group teaches ... and "wikipedia" is not a source - just like in school.] ?

Confirmation bias.

The reformed must be bad .. it can't be that they might disagree and it's a grey area .

Not that the reformed don't do that just not here. On fb there is an arminist page with the remonstrants of jacubus .most of the time the arminists are kicked off it because of the rudeness to the reformed who simply ask questions .you can't join unless you agree no proselytizing to the reformed side .you must also see that the reformed are still in Christ .

 

[electedbyHim]

That is because if you go against the majority of what people believe, you are wrong.

You know, 90% of Christianity do not believe Reformed Theology.

Reformed bad.

 

[atpollard]

I accept that EVERYONE disagrees with what we believe ... I am a Particular Baptist, so even the Presbyterian argue that I misunderstand the "covenant" and we are both REFORMED ? ... but why ask what I believe only to tell me that is NOT what I believe?

Personally, I take comfort in the "monergism" and "Divine Sovereignty" of being Reformed. It is not my job to convince anyone of anything. God cares more about their soul than I do and His HOLY SPIRIT is quite capable of taking care of whatever needs taking care of. God does not NEED my help. That means my only responsibility is to "give an answer when asked" (I am not to leave someone in ignorance like I have some "secret" knowledge that they are unworthy to know) and to "contend for the faith" when someone starts teaching error or talking smack about my God.

If I were a believer in "Free Will", then the eternal damnation of everyone that I met depended on my ability to persuade them ... if I fail, then they pay the price by spending ETERNITY in HELL!

I sure am glad that God took charge of salvation, so I only need to "do my best" and God is responsible for the results.

 

[electedbyHim]

I accept that EVERYONE disagrees with what we believe ... I am a Particular Baptist, so even the Presbyterian argue that I misunderstand the "covenant" and we are both REFORMED ? ... but why ask what I believe only to tell me that is NOT what I believe?

Personally, I take comfort in the "monergism" and "Divine Sovereignty" of being Reformed. It is not my job to convince anyone of anything. God cares more about their soul than I do and His HOLY SPIRIT is quite capable of taking care of whatever needs taking care of. God does not NEED my help. That means my only responsibility is to "give an answer when asked" (I am not to leave someone in ignorance like I have some "secret" knowledge that they are unworthy to know) and to "contend for the faith" when someone starts teaching error or talking smack about my God.

If I were a believer in "Free Will", then the eternal damnation of everyone that I met depended on my ability to persuade them ... if I fail, then they pay the price by spending ETERNITY in HELL!

I sure am glad that God took charge of salvation, so I only need to "do my best" and God is responsible for the results.

Well said.

Soli Deo Gloria

 

[atpollard]

Soli Deo Gloria

ALWAYS!!!!

(that is the gift that the REFORMED bring to the Body of Christ ... point to Him and say: "GLORY!")

 

[jasonc]

I accept that EVERYONE disagrees with what we believe ... I am a Particular Baptist, so even the Presbyterian argue that I misunderstand the "covenant" and we are both REFORMED ? ... but why ask what I believe only to tell me that is NOT what I believe?

Personally, I take comfort in the "monergism" and "Divine Sovereignty" of being Reformed. It is not my job to convince anyone of anything. God cares more about their soul than I do and His HOLY SPIRIT is quite capable of taking care of whatever needs taking care of. God does not NEED my help. That means my only responsibility is to "give an answer when asked" (I am not to leave someone in ignorance like I have some "secret" knowledge that they are unworthy to know) and to "contend for the faith" when someone starts teaching error or talking smack about my God.

If I were a believer in "Free Will", then the eternal damnation of everyone that I met depended on my ability to persuade them ... if I fail, then they pay the price by spending ETERNITY in HELL!

I sure am glad that God took charge of salvation, so I only need to "do my best" and God is responsible for the results.

Im not reformed .the idea of rejection Is on them not the person who tells them

 

[Fastfredy0]

[We should probably require FOOTNOTED references to support all opinions and a BIBLIOGRAPHY, like a term paper, to support any response to questions about what a term means or what a group teaches

Hmmm... not sure that would work. The other side of the argument wouldn't have much to say.

If I were a believer in "Free Will", then the eternal damnation of everyone that I met depended on my ability to persuade them

Well, if you is a believer in FREE WILL then evangelism is not of much benefit because it was it would be your free will influencing their free will which is a logical contradiction.
Aside: Free Will makes a mockery of James 4:15 Instead you ought to say, “If the Lord wills, we will live and we will do this or that.”
Aside 2: If freewill is true why has there never been a sinless human?

I sure am glad that God took charge of salvation, so I only need to "do my best" and God is responsible for the results.

"So let it be written, so let it be down". *ooops, not a biblical quote, that was Yul Brynner in 10 Commandments ... my bad .. need a little levity*


Job 41:11 Who has first given to Me, that I should repay him? Whatever is under the whole heavens is Mine.
Free Will answer, "I have given you self-determine faith such that You should repay me.

1 Corinthians 4:7 "Who maketh thee to differ from another? And what hast thou that thou didst not receive? Now if thou didst receive it, why dost thou glory, as if thou hadst not received it?". God had given them everything they had; everything includes faith for those elect
Free Will answer, "I have my faith that I did not receive that I might glory in myself"
Ephesians 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this [referring to salvation through faith] is not your own doing; it is the gift of God
Free Will answer, "Not my own doing?"

 

[Jethro Bodine]

If I were a believer in "Free Will", then the eternal damnation of everyone that I met depended on my ability to persuade them ... if I fail, then they pay the price by spending ETERNITY in HELL!

I sure am glad that God took charge of salvation, so I only need to "do my best" and God is responsible for the results.

You don't have to be a Calvinist to believe this.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Well, if you is a believer in FREE WILL then evangelism is not of much benefit because it was it would be your free will influencing their free will which is a logical contradiction.
Aside: Free Will makes a mockery of James 4:15 Instead you ought to say, “If the Lord wills, we will live and we will do this or that.”
Aside 2: If freewill is true why has there never been a sinless human?

Christians make the matter of free will difficult because it seems most Christians can only think in a black and white/ either/or way. They think if one extreme is not true the only option available is for the other extreme to be true. That's just not true.

In the matter of free will, you have as much free will as God allows you to have at any one time. It's not an either/or proposition. We all have free will within the scope of God's will. Like rats in a maze. We're free to travel anywhere in the maze that God has made available for us to travel in, when he makes it available. Christians are always arguing the two extremes. Neither extreme is true. That's why they never get anywhere with this and other topics.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

So could someone explain to me the point of asking someone what they believe only to tell them that is NOT what they believe?
What sort of insanity is that?

It's not insanity. It really is true that there are various factions within the many factional theologies in the church.

I'm finding out the hard way that some Catholics don't know, or don't agree, that the Catholic church has since adopted Luther's revelation about "righteousness apart from works" that they resisted and which is the basis for the reformation that divides us Protestants from them.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

.. Well, it is just plain exhausting to read.

What is exhausting is arguing two extremes that don't represent the actual truth.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

That is because if you go against the majority of what people believe, you are wrong.

You know, 90% of Christianity do not believe Reformed Theology.

Reformed bad.

I find it interesting that 'election' is instantly associated with Calvinism, even though it's a legitimate Biblical term that means one thing in Calvinism and another in non-Calvinistic theology. It's not right that Calvinism owns that and other terms!

To make my point, I'm tempted to think your screen name "electedbyhim" means you're establishing the fact that you are reformed/Calvinistic. But I can just as easily have that screen name, too, even though I'm not reformed/Calvinistic. I am indeed 'elected by him', yet I am not reformed in theology, apart from the "righteousness apart from works" aspect of it, of course.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

You know, 90% of Christianity do not believe Reformed Theology.

And the 10% that do believe it don't agree among themselves on all it's tenants.

One of two things is true. Either they really don't agree with all it's tenants, or they misrepresent them out of ignorance of their own theological camps teachings.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Im not reformed .the idea of rejection Is on them not the person who tells them

Just to be clear, if you believe in "righteousness apart from works", which many mistakenly call "faith alone", then you are indeed reformed, right? Perhaps what you want to say is you are not Calvinist(?) I don't think Calvinists own the reformed label.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

ALWAYS!!!!

(that is the gift that the REFORMED bring to the Body of Christ ... point to Him and say: "GLORY!")

God gets all the glory in my non-Calvinist theology. Calvinists don't own the term.

 

[atpollard]

You don't have to be a Calvinist to believe this.

No, people have LOTS of options to be wrong ... Arianism, Nestorianism, Pelagianism, Semi-Pelagianism, Mormon, Jehovah's Witness, etc.
However, it is still the Doctrines of Grace that emphasize "monergism" and that any "salvation" that happens is 100% "of God"!

Solus Christus​

Sola Fide​

Sola Gratia​

Soli Deo Gloria​

 

[atpollard]

What is exhausting is arguing two extremes that don't represent the actual truth.

... and yet HERE you are. A Calvinism-hater in the Calvinism section mansplainin' TRUTH to Calvinists 'cause we just don't understand the Bible that we read or what we REALLY mean by the Theology we proclaim.

 

[atpollard]

God gets all the glory in my non-Calvinist theology. Calvinists don't own the term.

Who knows ... all I ever hear from you is what you DON'T BELIEVE.