Antichrist is not a man.

[Sinthesis]

Relax; the beast was the Roman Empire; the woman was apostate Israel; and The Lord is Sovereign.

I am afraid that no amount of "relaxing" is going to take this Beast away. We can stick out heads deep into the sand, and it still is not going to go away.

Although the Beast was indeed Rome in the time of Israel, we all know what the Bible says about history repeating:Ecc 1:9 That which hath been is that which shall be; and that which hath been done is that which shall be done So you see, its about to happen again.

So then...all your worry is Vanity. :D :D :D

 

[researcher]

Well , there will obviously be leaders in the time that is upon us. The One Word Order will have leaders, but the Bible points to Ten Crowns.Ten nations ruling together. Did you know that the Federation of Earth has divided all the nations into ten regions already ?

C

Dan 2:40 And the fourth kingdom shall be strong as iron...
Dan 2:42 And as the toes of the feet were part of iron, and part of clay, so the kingdom shall be partly strong, and partly broken.

The 10 toes were the ten horns (kings without kingdoms yet)

It says that God set up his Kingdom in the days of those kings, which would make it, past tense.

Dan 2:44 And in the days of those kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom which shall never be destroyed,

Jesus set up the kingdom when he was on earth 2000 years ago.

Mar 1:15 and saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe in the gospel.

The kingdom is his Spirit in each person (Luk 17:21)
And it's been expanding ever since.

 

[Vic C.]

Relax; the beast was the Roman Empire; the woman was apostate Israel; and The Lord is Sovereign.

I am afraid that no amount of "relaxing" is going to take this Beast away. We can stick out heads deep into the sand, and it still is not going to go away.

Although the Beast was indeed Rome in the time of Israel, we all know what the Bible says about history repeating:Ecc 1:9 That which hath been is that which shall be; and that which hath been done is that which shall be done So you see, its about to happen again.

So then...all your worry is Vanity. :D :D :D

Yes, history many repeat itself and if It does, I still believe Israel (i.e. Jerusalem) will play a big part.

As for worrying; I'm not worried.

[attachment=0:2iqc2163]alfred_e_neuman.gif[/attachment:2iqc2163]

My God is bigger than the beast and even Alfred E. Neuman. :amen

 

[Cornelius]

Yes, history many repeat itself and if It does, I still believe Israel (i.e. Jerusalem) will play a big part.

You are right. At this moment we are about to see , for the first time, how the "history in making" of Israel, will be a mirror of what happens to us Christians . What happens to them in the physical, will happen to the church too spiritually.

Israel is about to be devided. This is today's news:

The European Union (EU) has resorted to making vague threats against Israel’s Prime Minister-designate, Binyamin Netanyahu, to pressure him to support the “the two-state solution,†which calls for the creation of an Arab state of Palestine inside the current borders of the Jewish State.

We are spiritual Israel and we too will be divided by the antichrist . We will split up into our own "Palestine" and "Israel" situation. True Christian (Israel) will soon be divided from our Palestine (tares) co-inhabitants.

Just as we see nations gathering around Israel (not for her good) we also see the nations gathering against Christianity as a whole. We have to be blind not to see that the whole world (all nations) will soon hate us, just as they will hate Israel

What happens to Israel, happens to us. They are our prophetic mirror.

 

[Cornelius]

The kingdom is his Spirit in each person (Luk 17:21)
And it's been expanding ever since.

If this was true (praise God it is not! ) , we have the wrong religion , because if this is the result of 2000 years of God's kingdom expanding, I do not want to see what falling away means We are in the saddest time of apostasy in the history of the church. There is no evidence anywhere of the Kingdom expanding, there is only the falling away, which has been predicted.

The "church" is powerless ! God's people are powerless and preach a powerless gospel.Last time I went to a "church" there was a demon possessed woman running around the church screaming her head off and people were praising God for touching her.

We have to wake up and get ready and chuck out these false doctrines brother, not preach them.

If you really believe this , then you too are offering just a sad picture and I for one really want no part of the gospel you offer. No wonder the world laughs at Christians, we deserve it.I cannot believe the heads in the sand you guys are doing. We are into the birth pains of the Tribulation, and you think it will never happen.

The tribulation has been designed to get us off of our butts and moving so that the Kingdom CAN expand.Its not been expanding, RELIGION has been expanding.(Please tell me you know the difference )

You do know that the condition for Jesus coming as a thief is ...............being asleep.

C

 

[Vic C.]

The "church" is powerless ! God's people are powerless and preach a powerless gospel.Last time I went to a "church" there was a demon possessed woman running around the church screaming her head off and people were praising God for touching her.

I'd say you attended the "wrong" church.

As for the Kingdom being "only" spiritual, I'd say that sounds a little gnostic to me and it's something I could not agree with at all.

 

[Cornelius]

The "church" is powerless ! God's people are powerless and preach a powerless gospel.Last time I went to a "church" there was a demon possessed woman running around the church screaming her head off and people were praising God for touching her.

I'd say you attended the "wrong" church.

As for the Kingdom being "only" spiritual, I'd say that sounds a little gnostic to me and it's something I could not agree with at all.

I do not attend any denomination anymore. I have been a Christian for thirty years now and spend most of my time studying the Word and working with Christians "in the system" . God placed His people on my heart, and that is where I minster (here where I live ) I am actively involved and see what it happening in the world of Christianity. My remarks are based on what I see, the people and ministers and pastors that I work and deal with. So you can take it that I am not making empty statements, based on hearsay , but firsthand experience. I am also not pointing to any one group alone, but to the whole spectrum.

God is the one that told us the church will fall away in our time. He has been proven correct.

As for the Kingdom being spiritual,Joh 18:36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.

 

[Cornelius]

People always think that I am attacking "THE church" . I am not. I LOVE the true church. The church is alive and well and slowly recovering as people are leaving the dead and apostate assemblies. I have no desire to defend the backslidden church and nor should any other Christian do that.

Be sure you guys know the difference.

 

[researcher]

The kingdom is his Spirit in each person (Luk 17:21)
And it's been expanding ever since.

If this was true (praise God it is not! ) , we have the wrong religion , because if this is the result of 2000 years of God's kingdom expanding, I do not want to see what falling away means We are in the saddest time of apostasy in the history of the church. There is no evidence anywhere of the Kingdom expanding, there is only the falling away, which has been predicted.

The "church" is powerless ! God's people are powerless and preach a powerless gospel.Last time I went to a "church" there was a demon possessed woman running around the church screaming her head off and people were praising God for touching her.

We have to wake up and get ready and chuck out these false doctrines brother, not preach them.

If you really believe this , then you too are offering just a sad picture and I for one really want no part of the gospel you offer. No wonder the world laughs at Christians, we deserve it.I cannot believe the heads in the sand you guys are doing. We are into the birth pains of the Tribulation, and you think it will never happen.

The tribulation has been designed to get us off of our butts and moving so that the Kingdom CAN expand.Its not been expanding, RELIGION has been expanding.(Please tell me you know the difference )

You do know that the condition for Jesus coming as a thief is ...............being asleep.

C

Actually, since Jesus setup the kingdom 2000 years ago, it has been expanding. It started with 1, and over the centuries grew with every person that had his Spirit. Whether it's actually expanding today is debatable. Some are caught up in religion thinking they are saved and may have never even been a part of the body so they wouldn't be counted. Is the number of those who were actually born again less than the number of those born again who went on to fall away? I dunno. No way to gauge really. Those with "religion" probably wouldn't be counted as opposed to those with the Spirit.

As for falling away, there was a great falling away a long time ago -

2Co 2:17 For we are not as the many, corrupting the word of God:

Gal 1:6 I marvel that ye are so quickly removing from him that called you in the grace of Christ unto a different gospel;

Php 3:18 (For many walk, of whom I have told you often, and now tell you even weeping, that they are the enemies of the cross of Christ:

The holy Spirit can use any person, saved or unsaved to convict another person and get them in the kingdom. The state churches in China, Russia, wherever. All it takes is hearing the gospel, (even from organized religion) and the HS can move in an individuals life. Heck, it doesn't even take a person. When I was reading the Bible 17 years ago, the HS said to me, "this is where the power is." My life changed right there, in one second, and, no person was involved. God can do that for anyone. Which is why I'm not worried. The Spirit leads you to say what He wants you to say to the right people at the right time, and, when that happens, fruit is bore. Because it's from Him, not us. There are only going to be so many saved people, i.e. "sons of God." Everyone else will be judged by their works. The HS guides us to speak when we should. And then it's His ballgame when we obey. He can do anything he wants. Save, not save, whichever.

As for the demon woman, yeah, I hate crazy church stuff too, LOL. Rather hang out with unbelivers than with crazies. Puts you in a position to be led by the Spirit in their lives anyway. :D

 

[Mosesjoel]

I throughly agree that The Anti-Christ is not man, but a misleading cunning cult
The cult is and being showed evr more now as ISLAM
Through out it's 700 year short history doctrined by the Devil, the cult has engulfed the Whole Earth and their main teaching is to create an Islamic earth to destroy any chance of Jesus returning.
Of course through Christian wisdom we know of the Great deceit that Islam has to offer and like all false religions will be destryed when Christ comes!!

 

[Sinthesis]

The kingdom is his Spirit in each person (Luk 17:21)
And it's been expanding ever since.

If this was true (praise God it is not! ) , we have the wrong religion , because if this is the result of 2000 years of God's kingdom expanding, I do not want to see what falling away means We are in the saddest time of apostasy in the history of the church. There is no evidence anywhere of the Kingdom expanding, there is only the falling away, which has been predicted.

What time do you see as the pinnacle of the Church which we are now falling from?

 

[Sinthesis]

I throughly agree that The Anti-Christ is not man, but a misleading cunning cult
The cult is and being showed evr more now as ISLAM
Through out it's 700 year short history doctrined by the Devil, the cult has engulfed the Whole Earth and their main teaching is to create an Islamic earth to destroy any chance of Jesus returning.
Of course through Christian wisdom we know of the Great deceit that Islam has to offer and like all false religions will be destryed when Christ comes!!

I agree that islam is an antichrist; perhaps the most powerful among many. Any self proclaimed 12th Imam would therefore qualify as a 'man' anti-christ. The war he would spark among Shiite and Sunni would be brutal.

 

[Cornelius]

The kingdom is his Spirit in each person (Luk 17:21)
And it's been expanding ever since.

If this was true (praise God it is not! ) , we have the wrong religion , because if this is the result of 2000 years of God's kingdom expanding, I do not want to see what falling away means We are in the saddest time of apostasy in the history of the church. There is no evidence anywhere of the Kingdom expanding, there is only the falling away, which has been predicted.

What time do you see as the pinnacle of the Church which we are now falling from?

I do not know if I am understanding your question really. But about the falling away:

As Researcher mentioned, it started even in the days of Paul. The church went through the Dark Ages where it really fell away. The sad fact is that humans will never manage on their own to "do it right" Although the falling away has always been and still is, there is coming an even larger falling away . Satan is attacking on so many levels. Through many doctrines that he has placed in the church . Many of which people on all forums, even this one, defends. But they truly believe that they are defending a Biblical doctrine. We have been taught to follow men (our "leaders" ) and they too are following men and so on.

The Bible as the true Spirit-breathed Word of God has also been undermined and with good reason. It is the power unto salvation, why would Satan NOT undermine it. Again you can read on any forum , how people strongly will defend the view that it is only an inspired document full of mistakes and human views.

Death to self is seldom preached and yet without this unpopular doctrine, we cannot make to heaven. Jesus is very clear about that.Yet many do not even understand what it means, and they are hoping to make it.

The church is rotten with doctrine of men. The Word has become leavened and we do not care. We truly have stepped into the world system and the church has become just like the world. They have become businesses , with tax exemption clauses and auditors that do their books. They sell the Word of God via CD's , books and downloads from the Internet. They fly in private jets, sometime two planes to one family, to their five star hotels, where they charge the churches they go to, to bring them a "word". We on the other hand, lap it up, we pay and pay and pay in the hope for the next crumb that will fall from the table of the MEN OF GOD (and lately WOMAN too, because who cares what the Bible says about woman teaching, I WANT to teach, so I WILL teach, no matter what an outdated God says )

Do you know about the so called emerging church? A post modern view. A church that has asked God to adapt , "fit in" with our times. A "seeker friendly" church, not a "God friendly" church. Do you how many of our famous TV evangelists are indebted to the Rev Moon ? (Yes the Moonies) (Google it and you will get a surprise )

I can actually carry on and write a book, because for the past three years, the Lord has led me into this and I have wept many a day before Him, because of this. My own family is involved with the emerging church and cannot live a life unto God , because of it. They are lost in a web of words and ideas.My sister's husband is a Professor of Theology , but has no idea about how to die to self, of how to take up his cross. They follow a post modern view and think I am crazy. They do not mention Jesus, because they reach out to people in "love". All religions are to be respected, because God is love. They use to be Full Gospel........

C

 

[Adullam]

We are in a process of devolution as a whole. There have always been pockets of people in true fellowship with Christ, but these are usually overwhelmed in the end, only to start up elsewhere.

Overall, we have a pure gospel and true authority at the beginning of the church age. Then we have a gradual mixture of this with the world until the reformation. The reformation helped somewhat, but we got on a new tangent, through human overreaction, and we now are on the rise....but with a different gospel than in the beginning. A "new improved" human friendly gospel that spoils us for the kingdom. The gospel of no power to oversome sin or be holy. The gospel of the reprobate.

<><

John

 

[researcher]

What time do you see as the pinnacle of the Church which we are now falling from?

AD 48? :shades :D

 

[Vic C.]

What time do you see as the pinnacle of the Church which we are now falling from?

AD 48? :shades :D

Don't laugh, that's about right. Paul's first mission trip. By the time he went out on his second and third trip, he had so much correcting to do. :help I have encountered so many individuals and groups that claim "virgin" Biblical doctrine, yet when they are compared, they don't resemble each other. If they are virgin doctrine, there should be no divergence.

 

[Sinthesis]

What time do you see as the pinnacle of the Church which we are now falling from?

AD 48? :shades :D

Don't laugh, that's about right. Paul's first mission trip. By the time he went out on his second and third trip, he had so much correcting to do. :help I have encountered so many individuals and groups that claim "virgin" Biblical doctrine, yet when they are compared, they don't resemble each other. If they are virgin doctrine, there should be no divergence.

Two thousand years of falling...It truly is a bottomless pit. :o :o :o

 

[researcher]

What time do you see as the pinnacle of the Church which we are now falling from?

AD 48? :shades :D

Don't laugh, that's about right. Paul's first mission trip. By the time he went out on his second and third trip, he had so much correcting to do. :help I have encountered so many individuals and groups that claim "virgin" Biblical doctrine, yet when they are compared, they don't resemble each other. If they are virgin doctrine, there should be no divergence.

That's right. No divergence. For the most part.

Of course, there is the milk, and the meat.

Milk
Heb 6:1 Therefore, leaving behind the elementary teachings about Christ, let us continue to be carried along to maturity, not laying again a foundation of repentance from dead works, faith toward God,
Heb 6:2 instruction about baptisms, the laying on of hands, the resurrection of the dead, and eternal judgment.
Heb 6:3 And this we will do, if God permits.

But God only shows us what we are ready to digest
Joh 16:12 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.

 

[Cornelius]

What time do you see as the pinnacle of the Church which we are now falling from?

AD 48? :shades :D

Researcher, as a brother and a friend I must tell you, that preterists got stuck in a "type and shadow"
They see the truth, because things happened as they say it did, but then this view falls. Why does it fall? Because of its inability to realize that God keeps on repeating history.

So, they got stuck in one of the repeats. Surely, if you do not want to outright believe me, you might consider that on this planet , there is such a group of people who have this flaw in their view.

How do I know History keeps on repeating? Ecc 1:9 That which hath been is that which shall be; and that which hath been done is that which shall be done

and here it is said again:

Ecc 3:15 That which is hath been long ago; and that which is to be hath long ago been: and God seeketh again that which is passed away.

Its very clear and even the non Christians see this.

Quote by Philip Guedalla

History repeats itself historians repeat each other.

 

[researcher]

What time do you see as the pinnacle of the Church which we are now falling from?

AD 48? :shades :D

Researcher, as a brother and a friend I must tell you, that preterists got stuck in a "type and shadow"
They see the truth, because things happened as they say it did, but then this view falls. Why does it fall? Because of its inability to realize that God keeps on repeating history.

So, they got stuck in one of the repeats. Surely, if you do not want to outright believe me, you might consider that on this planet , there is such a group of people who have this flaw in their view.

How do I know History keeps on repeating? Ecc 1:9 That which hath been is that which shall be; and that which hath been done is that which shall be done

and here it is said again:

Ecc 3:15 That which is hath been long ago; and that which is to be hath long ago been: and God seeketh again that which is passed away.

Its very clear and even the non Christians see this.
[quote:vy20imzw]
Quote by Philip Guedalla

History repeats itself historians repeat each other.

[/quote:vy20imzw]

It's ok. I think an end came for the people that lived 1900 years ago (or so) and another one will come at the very end.

1Th 5:2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.

Rev 3:3 ... If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.

Rev 16:15 (Behold, I come as a thief. )...

Who knows. Coming as a thief and coming in blazing glory seem like two different things though.

Too much evidence to ignore that the Apostles were trying to build up the believers back then for an imminent taking to heaven. There has to be more to the story because obviously the world hasn't ended. I'm OK with whenever.