Apostasy

[Heidi]

The only true faith is from the Holy Spirit wich is the personhood of Christ inside of us. As Paul says, "For if someone comes to you and preaches a different Jesus other than the one we preached, or you receive a different gospel other than the one you received, or a different Spirit other than the one you received, you put put up with it easily enough...for such men are false apostles."

Jesus says that the Holy Spirit will be with us forever and will lead us into all thruth. I believe him. Once we become born again the the Spirit, we cannot become unborn again!

The "falling away" described in Hebrews is those who believe but have no root. The root is the Holy Spirit.

 

[dcookcan]

PDoug

Thanks for the interesting link to the Book of Enoch. I have not studied the non-canonized books and epistles, but they can provide insite into certain areas. Your post only confirms my position on the apostasy. I don't agree with your assessment of faith though. Faith has nothing to do with mind-games like 'if I just believe hard enough or have the right kind of belief - I will be healed of (insert ailment here)'.

Simply put, there can be no faith (of the mind) without faithfulness.
- Faith without works is dead.

 

[dcookcan]

The only true faith is from the Holy Spirit wich is the personhood of Christ inside of us. As Paul says, "For if someone comes to you and preaches a different Jesus other than the one we preached, or you receive a different gospel other than the one you received, or a different Spirit other than the one you received, you put put up with it easily enough...for such men are false apostles."

Based on your posts on this forum Heidi, I doubt very much that you actually know the Jesus that you claim to preach.

Jesus says that the Holy Spirit will be with us forever and will lead us into all thruth. I believe him. Once we become born again the the Spirit, we cannot become unborn again!

The "falling away" described in Hebrews is those who believe but have no root. The root is the Holy Spirit.

Your statement is only a half truth. The root is not defined as the Holy Spirit in the scriptures. Half truths are extremely dangerous as Eve found out in the garden. She responded to the serpent with a half truth, different than what the LORD actually commanded. The serpent recognized her error and took advantage of it.

 

[hopefearmercy]

in all truth

The only true faith is from the Holy Spirit wich is the personhood of Christ inside of us. As Paul says, "For if someone comes to you and preaches a different Jesus other than the one we preached, or you receive a different gospel other than the one you received, or a different Spirit other than the one you received, you put put up with it easily enough...for such men are false apostles."

Jesus says that the Holy Spirit will be with us forever and will lead us into all thruth. I believe him. Once we become born again the the Spirit, we cannot become unborn again!

The "falling away" described in Hebrews is those who believe but have no root. The root is the Holy Spirit.

Is amazing how PAUL teaches these things and not Jesus....Paul wasn't even an EYEWITNESS to Jesus. It is Paul that is teaching a different Message than what Jesus taught....Paul says in 2 Timothy that he was the creator of the Resurrection.....Jesus on the other hand was to have supposedly said, I can do nothing from myself....why callest thou me good...the lord our God is ONE GOD.....etc.etc.etc....now the "holy spirit" you claim that has lead you into all truth....where is the original words of Jesus?...IN ALL TRUTH.

hopefearmercy

 

[Gary]

hopefearmercy, you were NEVER a Christian. Like Muhammad, you have no concept of the Holy Spirit. Hence you make many mistakes about Christian belief.

Jesus and Paul taught the same message.

Read this: http://www.geocities.com/gary_bee_za/pa ... djesus.htm

 

[Dave...]

Galatians 1:1 Paul, an apostle (not from men nor through man, but through Jesus Christ and God the Father who raised Him from the dead),

Jesus sent Paul Acts 9:15. Because of what we learn in Acts 9:1-9 we know that Paul was a qualified witness of the resurrection of Jesus Christ Acts 1:22.

 

[hopefearmercy]

aint none

Jesus and Paul taught the same message

again, where is the gospel "according to Jesus"?....aint none....ask the Christian theologians.

hopefearmercy

 

[hopefearmercy]

not proven



This is not the same "Paul"...Paul who you claim wrote some of the books, was not around during Jesus' time....ask the Christian theologians...this Paul was a taxcollector and was against Christainty from the beginning til he had a dream....imagine a dream to be a prophet?...remember..."false prophets".

.....and in Acts 1:22 it reads Beginning from the baptism of John unto that same day that he was taken up from us, must one be ordained to be a witness with us of his resurrection.

It states that Paul.......NOT AN EYEWITNESS...in which Paul claims himself as not being but only an apostle by the will of God (from himself he claims)....But in 2 Timothy 2:8....Remember that Jesus Christ of the seed of David was raised from the dead ACCORDING TO MY GOSPEL.

They are simple words....They are NOT proven that Jesus nor God "ordained" him to even preach HIS OWN GOSPEL.....the words "not proven" mean anything?

fespectfully,
hopefearmercy

 

[hopefearmercy]

what i meant was...

What I meant by not being the same "Paul" was that Saul was later changed that's all....and still the eyewitness account holds firm....he never met Jesus, never talked to him, nor has proof that he ever had God talk to him.....for we know that God has messengers for that...and Paul was not a messenger of God....just a man.
hopefearmercy

 

[Gary]

hopefearmercy, you are wrong on so many facts it is impossible not to draw the conclusion that you were NEVER a Christian!

Paul and Jesus: their teachings

An honest reading of the New Testament shows that Paul did not teach a new religion. The foundation stones for Christianity are patently taken from the Old Testament, Judaism generally, and the life of a historical figure named Jesus.

A careful study of the Epistles and the Gospel reveals that the source of Paul’s teachings on salvation was the Old Testament and the teachings of Jesus. A simple comparison of both Jesus’ and Paul’s teachings will demonstrate the point:

(1) Paul, similar to Jesus, taught that Christianity was a fulfillment of Judaism.

• Jesus declared: “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them†(Matthew 5:17). Jesus added, “The Law and the Prophets were proclaimed until John. Since that time, the good news of the kingdom of God is being preached, and everyone is forcing his way into it. It is easier for heaven and earth to disappear than for the least stroke of a pen to drop out of the Law†(Luke 16:16-17).
  
  Paul’s teaching: The Christ of Paul and Jesus is utterly at home in Judaism. Paul wrote to the Romans: “Christ is the end of the law so that there may be righteousness for everyone who believes†(Romans 10:4). He added in Colossians, “Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ†(Colossians 2:16-17).

(2) Both Paul and Jesus taught that human beings are sinners.

• Jesus declared: “I tell you the truth, all the sins and blasphemies of men will be forgiven them†(Mark 3:28). He added in John, “I told you that you would die in your sins; if you do not believe that I am [the one I claim to be], you will indeed die in your sins†(John 8:24).
  
  Paul declared: All human beings are sinful, insisting that “all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God†(Romans 3:23). He added in Ephesians, “As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins†(Ephesians 2:1). Indeed, part of the very definition of the Gospel was that “Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures†(1 Corinthians 15:3).

(3) Both Jesus and Paul insisted that the shed blood of Christ was necessary as an atonement for our sins.

• Jesus proclaimed: “For even the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many†(Mark 10:45). He added at the Last Supper, “This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins†(Matthew 26:28).
  
  Paul is just as emphatic: He affirmed that “In him [Christ] we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, in accordance with the riches of God’s grace†(Ephesians 1:7). In Romans he added, “But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us†(Romans 5:8). Referring back to the Old Testament Passover, he said, “Christ, our Passover lamb, has been sacrificed†(1 Corinthians 5:7).

(4) Jesus and Paul also taught that the death and burial of Jesus was completed by his bodily resurrection.

• Jesus said: “He told them, ‘This is what is written: The Christ will suffer and rise from the dead on the third dayâ€Â’ (Luke 24:46). Jesus challenged, “Destroy this temple, and I will raise it again in three days.... But the temple he had spoken of was his body†(John 2:19-21). After he was raised from the dead, his disciples recalled what he had said. Then they believed the Scripture and the words that Jesus had spoken (John 2:22; John 20:25-29).
  
  Paul’s teaching: The apostle Paul also stressed the need of the resurrection for salvation. To the Romans he wrote: “He [Jesus] was delivered over to death for our sins and was raised to life for our justification†(Romans 4:25). Indeed, Paul insisted that belief in the resurrection was essential to salvation, writing, “That if you confess with your mouth, ‘Jesus is Lord,’ and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved†(Romans 10:9).

(5) Jesus and Paul taught salvation is by grace through faith.

• Jesus affirmed that every person needs God’s grace. Jesus’ disciples said to him, “Who then can be saved?†Jesus looked at them and said, “With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible†(Matthew 19:25-26). All through the Gospel of John Jesus presented only one way to obtain God’s gracious salvation: “Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life†(John 3:36; John 3:16; John 5:24; Mark 1:15).
  
  Paul taught salvation by grace through faith, affirming, “It is by grace you have been saved, through faith - and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God - not by works, so that no one can boast†(Ephesians 2:8-9; Titus 3:5-7). He added to the Romans, “To the man who does not work but trusts God who justifies the wicked, his faith is credited as righteousness (Romans 4:5).

Conclusion:

• A comparison of the teachings of Jesus and Paul on salvation reveals clearly that there is no basis for speculating on any source of Paul’s teachings other than that of Jesus. Christianity was rooted in Judaism. Indeed, Paul’s message of the gospel was both checked and approved by the original apostles (Galatians 1-2), demonstrating official recognition that his message was not opposed to that of Jesus.

 

[Gary]

Paul's message confirmed by the Apostles

Galatians 1:1-23

Introduction

1Paul, (A)an apostle ((B)not sent from men nor through the agency of man, but (C)through Jesus Christ and God the Father, who (D)raised Him from the dead),
2and all (E)the brethren who are with me, To (F)the churches of Galatia:

3(G)Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ,

4who (H)gave Himself for our sins so that He might rescue us from (I)this present evil age, according to the will of (J)our God and Father,

5(K)to whom be the glory forevermore. Amen.

Perversion of the Gospel

6I am amazed that you are so quickly deserting (L)Him who called you by the grace of Christ, for a (M)different gospel;
7which is really not another; only there are some who are (N)disturbing you and want to distort the gospel of Christ.

8But even if we, or (O)an angel from heaven, should preach to you a gospel contrary to what we have preached to you, he is to be (P)accursed!

9As we (Q)have said before, so I say again now, (R)if any man is preaching to you a gospel contrary to what you received, he is to be (S)accursed!

10For am I now (T)seeking the favor of men, or of God? Or am I striving to please men? If I were still trying to please men, I would not be a (U)bond-servant of Christ.

Paul Defends His Ministry

11For (V)I would have you know, brethren, that the gospel which was preached by me is (W)not according to man.
12For (X)I neither received it from man, nor was I taught it, but I received it through a (Y)revelation of Jesus Christ.

13For you have heard of (Z)my former manner of life in Judaism, how I (AA)used to persecute (AB)the church of God beyond measure and (AC)tried to destroy it;

14and I (AD)was advancing in Judaism beyond many of my contemporaries among my countrymen, being more extremely zealous for my (AE)ancestral traditions.

15But when God, who had set me apart even from my mother's womb and (AF)called me through His grace, was pleased

16to reveal His Son in me so that I might (AG)preach Him among the Gentiles, (AH)I did not immediately consult with (AI)flesh and blood,

17(AJ)nor did I go up to Jerusalem to those who were apostles before me; but I went away to Arabia, and returned once more to (AK)Damascus.

18Then (AL)three years later I went up (AM)to Jerusalem to become acquainted with (AN)Cephas, and stayed with him fifteen days.

19But I did not see any other of the apostles except (AO)James, the Lord's brother.

20(Now in what I am writing to you, I assure you (AP)before God that I am not lying.)

21Then (AQ)I went into the regions of (AR)Syria and (AS)Cilicia.

22I was still unknown by sight to (AT)the churches of Judea which were (AU)in Christ;

23but only, they kept hearing, "He who once persecuted us is now preaching (AV)the faith which he once (AW)tried to destroy."

24And they (AX)were glorifying God because of me.

Cross references:

(A) Galatians 1:1 : 2 Corinthians 1:1
(B) Galatians 1:1 : Galatians 1:11
(C) Galatians 1:1 : Acts 9:15; Galatians 1:15
(D) Galatians 1:1 : Acts 2:24
(E) Galatians 1:2 : Philippians 4:21
(F) Galatians 1:2 : Acts 16:6; 1 Corinthians 16:1
(G) Galatians 1:3 : Romans 1:7
(H) Galatians 1:4 : Galatians 2:20
(I) Galatians 1:4 : Matthew 13:22; Romans 12:2; 2 Corinthians 4:4
(J) Galatians 1:4 : Philippians 4:20
(K) Galatians 1:5 : Romans 11:36
(L) Galatians 1:6 : Romans 8:28; Galatians 1:15; Galatians 5:8
(M) Galatians 1:6 : 2 Corinthians 11:4; Galatians 1:7; Galatians 1:11; Galatians 2:2; Galatians 2:7; Galatians 5:14; 1 Timothy 1:3
(N) Galatians 1:7 : Acts 15:24; Galatians 5:10
(O) Galatians 1:8 : 2 Corinthians 11:14
(P) Galatians 1:8 : Romans 9:3
(Q) Galatians 1:9 : Acts 18:23
(R) Galatians 1:9 : Romans 16:17
(S) Galatians 1:9 : Romans 9:3
(T) Galatians 1:10 : 1 Corinthians 10:33; 1 Thessalonians 2:4
(U) Galatians 1:10 : Romans 1:1; Philippians 1:1
(V)Galatians 1:11 : Romans 2:16; 1 Corinthians 15:1
(W) Galatians 1:11 : 1 Corinthians 3:4; 1 Corinthians 9:8
(X) Galatians 1:12 : 1 Corinthians 11:23; Galatians 1:1
(Y) Galatians 1:12 : 1 Corinthians 2:10; 2 Corinthians 12:1; Galatians 1:16; Galatians 2:2
(Z) Galatians 1:13 : Acts 26:4
(AA) Galatians 1:13 : Acts 8:3; Acts 22:4-5
(AB) Galatians 1:13 : 1 Corinthians 10:32
(AC) Galatians 1:13 : Acts 9:21
(AD) Galatians 1:14 : Acts 22:3
(AE) Galatians 1:14 : Jeremiah 9:14; Matthew 15:2; Mark 7:3; Colossians 2:8
(AF) Galatians 1:15 : Isaiah 49:1; Isaiah 49:5; Jeremiah 1:5; Acts 9:15; Romans 1:1; Galatians 1:6
(AG) Galatians 1:16 : Acts 9:15; Galatians 2:9
(AH) Galatians 1:16 : Acts 9:20
(AI) Galatians 1:16 : Matthew 16:17
(AJ) Galatians 1:17 : Acts 9:19-22
(AK) Galatians 1:17 : Acts 9:2
(AL) Galatians 1:18 : Acts 9:22
(AM) Galatians 1:18 : Acts 9:26
(AN) Galatians 1:18 : John 1:42; Galatians 2:9; Galatians 2:11; Galatians 2:14
(AO) Galatians 1:19 : Matthew 12:46; Acts 12:17
(AP) Galatians 1:20 : Romans 9:1; 2 Corinthians 1:23; 2 Corinthians 11:31
(AQ) Galatians 1:21 : Acts 9:30
(AR) Galatians 1:21 : Acts 15:23; Acts 15:41
(AS) Galatians 1:21 : Acts 6:9
(AT) Galatians 1:22 : 1 Corinthians 7:17; 1 Thessalonians 2:14
(AU) Galatians 1:22 : Romans 16:7
(AV) Galatians 1:23 : Acts 6:7; Galatians 6:10
(AW) Galatians 1:23 : Acts 9:21
(AX) Galatians 1:24 : Matthew 9:8

Galatians 2:1-10

The Council at Jerusalem

1Then after an interval of fourteen years I (A)went up again to Jerusalem with (B)Barnabas, taking (C)Titus along also.

2It was because of a (D)revelation that I went up; and I submitted to them the (E)gospel which I preach among the Gentiles, but I did so in private to those who were of reputation, for fear that I might be (F)running, or had run, in vain.

3But not even (G)Titus, who was with me, though he was a Greek, was (H)compelled to be circumcised.

4But it was because of the (I)false brethren secretly brought in, who (J)had sneaked in to spy out our (K)liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, in order to (L)bring us into bondage.

5But we did not yield in subjection to them for even an hour, so that (M)the truth of the gospel would remain with you.

6But from those who were of high (N)reputation (what they were makes no difference to me; (O)God shows no partiality)--well, those who were of reputation contributed nothing to me.

7But on the contrary, seeing that I had been (P)entrusted with the (Q)gospel to the uncircumcised, just as (R)Peter had been to the circumcised

8(for He who effectually worked for Peter in his (S)apostleship to the circumcised effectually worked for me also to the Gentiles),

9and recognizing (T)the grace that had been given to me, (U)James and (V)Cephas and John, who were (W)reputed to be (X)pillars, gave to me and (Y)Barnabas the (Z)right hand of fellowship, so that we might (AA)go to the Gentiles and they to the circumcised.

10They only asked us to remember the poor--(AB)the very thing I also was eager to do.

Cross references:

(A) Galatians 2:1 : Acts 15:2
(B) Galatians 2:1 : Acts 4:36; Galatians 2:9; Galatians 2:13
(C) Galatians 2:1 : 2 Corinthians 2:13; Galatians 2:3
(D) Galatians 2:2 : Acts 15:2; Galatians 1:12
(E) Galatians 2:2 : Galatians 1:6
(F) Galatians 2:2 : Romans 9:16; 1 Corinthians 9:24; Galatians 5:7; Philippians 2:16; 2 Timothy 4:7; Hebrews 12:1
(G) Galatians 2:3 : 2 Corinthians 2:13; Galatians 2:1
(H) Galatians 2:3 : Acts 16:3; 1 Corinthians 9:21
(I) Galatians 2:4 : Acts 15:1; Acts 15:24; 2 Corinthians 11:13; 2 Corinthians 11:26; Galatians 1:7
(J) Galatians 2:4 : 2 Peter 2:1; Jude 4
(K) Galatians 2:4 : Galatians 5:1; Galatians 5:13; James 1:25
(L) Galatians 2:4 : Romans 8:15; 2 Corinthians 11:20
(M) Galatians 2:5 : Galatians 1:6; Galatians 2:14; Colossians 1:5
(N) Galatians 2:6 : 2 Corinthians 11:5; 2 Corinthians 12:11; Galatians 2:9; Galatians 6:3
(O) Galatians 2:6 : Acts 10:34
(P) Galatians 2:7 : 1 Corinthians 9:17; 1 Thessalonians 2:4; 1 Timothy 1:11
(Q) Galatians 2:7 : Acts 9:15; Galatians 1:16
(R) Galatians 2:7 : Galatians 1:18; Galatians 2:9; Galatians 2:11; Galatians 2:14
(S) Galatians 2:8 : Acts 1:25
(T) Galatians 2:9 : Romans 12:3
(U) Galatians 2:9 : Acts 12:17; Galatians 2:12
(V) Galatians 2:9 : Luke 22:8; Galatians 1:18; Galatians 2:7; Galatians 2:11; Galatians 2:14
(W) Galatians 2:9 : 2 Corinthians 11:5; 2 Corinthians 12:11; Galatians 2:2; Galatians 2:6; Galatians 6:3
(X) Galatians 2:9 : 1 Timothy 3:15; Revelation 3:12
(Y) Galatians 2:9 : Acts 4:36; Galatians 2:1; Galatians 2:13
(Z) Galatians 2:9 : 2 Kings 10:15
(AA) Galatians 2:9 : Galatians 1:16
(AB) Galatians 2:10 : Acts 24:17

.

 

[quadding101]

We have more churches, more people going to church today than ever before ( yes there is more people today). So if the churches r full what can it be talking about? It is a falling away from the truth. Consider the lukewarm church. The lukewarm church is a perfect example of the church today. The lukewarm church is like what Paul said (take pastors to speak things that r pleasing to the ears), but if they taught the truth they would not be pastor any longer it would offend too many people. The church today is full of teaching that allow u to be a sinner and still have God and go to heaven (the bible is plain, sin is what seperates man from God). U say , but Jesus died for our sins and He made the way for us. But He also made it plain that sin seperates from God and u will be known by ur fruits (actions, deeds, and thoughts). Does ur life live up to the bible or fall short? God made a way for us to say no to sin by the indwelling of His spirit. When God's Spirit comes into our hearts the inborn nature is cast out and our hearts r purifyed. Sin like greed, lust, envy, etc. is also cast out because God will not dwell where sin dwells. When sin like lust, greed, etc. is cast out of our hearts it is no longer in control of us, it is how God makes it possible to say no to sin. As long as the inborn nature is in our hearts it will compel us to sin but when God's Spirit is in our hearts sin becomes a choice. I hope this helps u.

 

[John the Baptist]

Revelation 2:5 tells what can & did happen. The Church became Apostate. The whole of the fold became D-E-S-O-L-A-T-E of whom? Matthew 23:38. That was the first time. The second time is just before Christ comes again.
God documents the fact!

But, you can rest assured that no one will be saved who is just another loose cannon as was satan!!! :
---John

 

[PDoug]

PDoug

Thanks for the interesting link to the Book of Enoch. I have not studied the non-canonized books and epistles, but they can provide insite into certain areas. Your post only confirms my position on the apostasy. I don't agree with your assessment of faith though. Faith has nothing to do with mind-games like 'if I just believe hard enough or have the right kind of belief - I will be healed of (insert ailment here)'.

Simply put, there can be no faith (of the mind) without faithfulness.
- Faith without works is dead.

Who said anything about mind games? Don't be distracted by Christ's reference to moving mountains via faith. Mark 11:22-24 contains a considerable amount of information regarding having faith. The scripture indicates: 1) how to have faith [by saying what you want and believing it will happen, or asking God for things and believing you will receive them]; 2) the fact that you will receive whatever you ask for; 3) and the fact that you have the potential to do incredible things if you can eliminate all doubt and muster great belief. However as a practical matter, it is not easy to throw a mountain into the ocean via faith, and there is no indication that any man during this age will actually do so.

Please note the following scripture:

Gospel of Thomas

(62) Jesus said: I tell my mysteries to those [who are worthy of my] mysteries. What thy right hand shall do, let not thy left hand know what it does.

God has shrouded the capacity to do great things via faith in secrecy, and reveals the know-how on how to do so only to those who He deems qualified. As a practical matter, a person would generally have to pray a great, great deal (e.g. several hours a day) asking and believing (i.e. having faith) for a great deal of faith, in order to obtain it. That is how God has structured things. God is not interested in someone having the power to cast mountains into oceans per se, God is interested in someone asking and believing (Mark 11:22-24) relentlessly for great things, and enduring obstacles as he seeks after them. It is only after a certain point when someone does this, that God will grant that person the great gift that he seeks - in increasing degrees.

Please re-read the bottom portion of my original message (and pleas also follow the links in the message) to see how someone can practically have faith. Having faith is not about moving mountains - or even healing the sick: it is about the practice of saying what you want and believing it will happen, or asking God for things and believing you will receive them, up to the point where you actually receive it. This includes asking for a new job, asking for great weather, etc.

 

[dcookcan]

Please re-read the bottom portion of my original message (and pleas also follow the links in the message) to see how someone can practically have faith. Having faith is not about moving mountains - or even healing the sick: it is about the practice of saying what you want and believing it will happen, or asking God for things and believing you will receive them, up to the point where you actually receive it. This includes asking for a new job, asking for great weather, etc.

I re-read your post and links. I stand by my original statement. The mustard seed in its context was one of the smallest seeds known to the people of the day, yet it grows into a substantial plant. Simply put, either you have faith or you do not. There is no measure of faith that will win you more miracles. The same can be said of faithfulness. Either you are or you are not.

It would seem, by your statements and links, that faith is equated with belief. It is not; they are two separate entities. Everyone who prays has belief that the Father will hear them, otherwise they would not pray.

 

[dcookcan]

Since I wanted to dig deeper into the meaning of 'apostasia' and the New Covenant scriptures have limited references, I did what any good berean would do in this circumstance. When one seeks to understand the meaning of Greek words that have limited references in the New Covenant, they can turn to the Septuagint, which is a Greek translation of the Hebrew Old Covenant.

Against my better judgement, I have decided to share the results with you, even though I will likely be flamed. 'Apostasia' is used throughout the Septuagint. The Hebrew word that it is used to translate is Ma'al (mem-ayin-lamed); Strong's number 4603 and 4604. It is most often translated into English as unfaithful or transgression. 4603 and 4604 (same words) are often used together to mean that someone has 'committed to being unfaithful' or 'committed to transgression'.

This is very interesting to me and I have come to a conclusion on the matter. I will not share it, though, since the Holy Spirit is the only one who can speak to and change a man's heart. I am submitting a trail that anyone who is interested can follow on their own, with the direction of the Holy Spirit.

 

[Abiyah]

Hi there !

Dcookcan ?

I also have the Strongs Concordance ! You have a Septuagint ? Wow... Nice !

Abiyah

 

[dcookcan]

Re: Hi there !

Dcookcan ?

I also have the Strongs Concordance ! You have a Septuagint ? Wow... Nice !

Abiyah

No I don't have a Septuagint. I have a Greek Hebrew Lexicon with Septuagint references.

 

[PDoug]

Please re-read the bottom portion of my original message (and pleas also follow the links in the message) to see how someone can practically have faith. Having faith is not about moving mountains - or even healing the sick: it is about the practice of saying what you want and believing it will happen, or asking God for things and believing you will receive them, up to the point where you actually receive it. This includes asking for a new job, asking for great weather, etc.

I re-read your post and links. I stand by my original statement. The mustard seed in its context was one of the smallest seeds known to the people of the day, yet it grows into a substantial plant. Simply put, either you have faith or you do not. There is no measure of faith that will win you more miracles. The same can be said of faithfulness. Either you are or you are not.

Okay, let me restate what I said more precisely. "Having faith is not about moving mountains per se - or even healing the sick: it is about the practice of saying what you want and believing it will happen, or asking God for things and believing you will receive them, up to the point where you actually receive it. "

It would seem, by your statements and links, that faith is equated with belief. It is not; they are two separate entities. Everyone who prays has belief that the Father will hear them, otherwise they would not pray.

I'm not sure how you are able to equate the explanation I gave on having having faith (based on Mark 11:22-24) with merely believing, when I indicated that having faith includes either the actions of: saying what you want and believing it will happen, or asking God for things and believing you will receive them. (Note: in the two ways you can have faith, it involves a verbal action and a believing action.)

My inability to come across to you and others concerning how to have faith, based on Christ's instructions, appears to be explained in the following scripture:

Gospel of Thomas

(35) Jesus said: It is not possible for anyone to go into the strong man's house and take it (or him) by force, unless he bind his hands; then he will plunder his house.

As Christ would have said, "I leave with you a parable!"

 

[Abiyah]

Hi there ALL !

My understanding of the "great apostacy" or "falling away" happens when the anti-[ Anti=meaning instead of] christ appears on Mount Zion claiming to be Jesus Christ, working signs and wonders, even making fire [ Fire= meaning Lightening] come down from heaven in the sight of men. I believe it is when the spurious messiah, the dragon, that old serpent, satan, the devil, appears along with his angels, that it will be at that time that MOST of the world will fall away from the True Jesus Christ, to the false christ. It is my understanding that they "fall away" becasue they think that it is Jesus Christ, but it's NOT. Those that do not fall away, will be those that are sealed with the Truth of God's Word in their minds, in that they know that he is a FAKE ! And they understand that satan come in the 6th trump, as the anti-christ; and the True Jesus Christ comes at the 7th trump ! Am I way off ?

Abiyah