Are Christians to keep the Sabbath?

[felix]

Then according to your reasoning, those who have no other gods before God are an abomination to God. Those who do not bow down to idols are an abomination to God. Those who do not use God's name in vain are an abomination. Etc.

I think your reasonings may be a little faulty.

I believe you do not understand what it means to follow old and new covenants. Also, it is not my reasoning but God's explicit instructions which many Sabbath followers refuse to accept.

If you do not have other gods because you follow the old covenant, then it is indeed an abomination because, you do not go to the Father through Christ but as a divorced wife. No matter what you do in the divorced marriage covenant, you can never become His wife again.

However, if you do not have other gods because it is instructed by Christ in Mark 12:32-34 according to the new covenant, then you go to the Father as a bride of Christ.

You see the difference?

Imagine a newly wedded wife (previously divorced) taking her old-marriage covenant and honoring it by going to her former husband and also honoring her new marriage covenant by going to her current husband as well. It's called adultery.

 

[tim-from-pa]

What day is the first day of the week?

Sunday

What day is the Sabbath?

The weekly Sabbath is Saturday. Feast Day Sabbaths occur on any day of the week. Such Sabbaths that occur on any day were also called "High Day" Sabbaths (John 19:31).

The Jews therefore, because it was the preparation, that the bodies should not remain upon the cross on the sabbath day, (for that sabbath day was an high day,) besought Pilate that their legs might be broken, and that they might be taken away.

So? What's your point? Now you owe me an answer about the months.

To the rest: The point's been brought up about keeping other Sabbaths. Yeah, why not? The feast days are Sabbaths, too. They are shadows of things to come Paul said, so a Christian should be aware of what they represent.

 

[John 8:32]

I believe you do not understand what it means to follow old and new covenants. Also, it is not my reasoning but God's explicit instructions which many Sabbath followers refuse to accept.

Oh, I think I do.

If you do not have other gods because you follow the old covenant, then it is indeed an abomination because, you do not go to the Father through Christ but as a divorced wife. No matter what you do in the divorced marriage covenant, you can never become His wife again.

This actually makes no sense. One who is married to Christ should obey Him...

Eph 5:22 Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord.
Eph 5:23 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.
Eph 5:24 Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing.

Eph 5:32 This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.

However, if you do not have other gods because it is instructed by Christ in Mark 12:32-34 according to the new covenant, then you go to the Father as a bride of Christ.

Same law, with spiritual content. You should read Mat 5...

Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Mat 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

The law did not change, the Covenant (read here agreement) changed. The New Covenant is not an agreement with Israel concerning physical blessings, it is an agreement with the spiritual seed of Abraham with spiritual intent involved with the obedience.

You see the difference?

No, I don't. If I obey God because He says to, I have obeyed God. If I disobey, no matter what my thoughts are, I have disobeyed.

Imagine a newly wedded wife (previously divorced) taking her old-marriage covenant and honoring it by going to her former husband and also honoring her new marriage covenant by going to her current husband as well. It's called adultery.

So, if I keep the law of God, which is the same law Jesus Christ spoke at Sinai, the same Christ that is the same yesterday, today and forever, and Christ said heaven and earth would pass away before the law passed away, I am gulity of spiritual adultery? Same Christ. You are trying to say the God of the Old Testament is not Christ and is a different God. Sorry, but that is not true...

1Co 10:1 Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea;
1Co 10:2 And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;
1Co 10:3 And did all eat the same spiritual meat;
1Co 10:4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.

All of these reasonings of yours aside, let's look at the New Testament...

Heb 4:9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.

The word for rest here is Sabbatismos, a keeping of the Sabbath. This remains for the people of God. New Testament, New Covenant law.

 

[rrowell]

This actually makes no sense. One who is married to Christ should obey Him...

His bride is the Church he established, it is the New Testament Church under the New Testament...

He is saying Christ divorced (a metaphor for abolished) the old law, the new law is for His bride, to follow the old law for anything other than "learning" would put you outside His Church.

 

[John 8:32]

His bride is the Church he established, it is the New Testament Church under the New Testament...

He is saying Christ divorced (a metaphor for abolished) the old law, the new law is for His bride, to follow the old law for anything other than "learning" would put you outside His Church.

Christ did not divorce the law...

He divorced Israel...

Jer 3:8 And I saw, when for all the causes whereby backsliding Israel committed adultery I had put her away, and given her a bill of divorce; yet her treacherous sister Judah feared not, but went and played the harlot also.

The law still stands...

Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

I trod across the earth just this morning and the sun came up in the heavens (actually the earth rolled) so has anything passed from the law?

 

[rrowell]

Christ did not divorce the law...

He divorced Israel...

Jer 3:8 And I saw, when for all the causes whereby backsliding Israel committed adultery I had put her away, and given her a bill of divorce; yet her treacherous sister Judah feared not, but went and played the harlot also.

The law still stands...

Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

I trod across the earth just this morning and the sun came up in the heavens (actually the earth rolled) so has anything passed from the law?

John, Notice I used "abolished" in place of his choice of word "divorce", because I had a feeling you would come with that verse...

You cannot, absolutely CANNOT deny what this says:

Galatians 3:24-25 (KJV)
Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

 

[John 8:32]

John, Notice I used "abolished" in place of his choice of word "divorce", because I had a feeling you would come with that verse...

You cannot, absolutely CANNOT deny what this says:

Galatians 3:24-25 (KJV)
Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

What is the schoolmaster? The law against lying? or is it the sacrificial laws?

Deu 5:22 These words the LORD spake unto all your assembly in the mount out of the midst of the fire, of the cloud, and of the thick darkness, with a great voice: and he added no more. And he wrote them in two tables of stone, and delivered them unto me.

Jer 7:22 For I spake not unto your fathers, nor commanded them in the day that I brought them out of the land of Egypt, concerning burnt offerings or sacrifices:

The sacrifices were added.

Gal 3:21 Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.

Heb 10:1 For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.

Right about here we should read Col 2:17...

Col 2:17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

Heb 10:2 For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins.
Heb 10:3 But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.
Heb 10:4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.

This is the schoolmaster, the laws concerning sacrifices, it taught this very important principle...

Heb 9:22 And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.

Sin requires blood, if one sins, blood will be shed.

Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Christ came to shed His blood in our stead. This is what the schoolmaster taught.

 

[rrowell]

What is the schoolmaster? The law against lying? or is it the sacrificial laws?

How much more proof must one need?:

2 Corinthians 3:7-17 (KJV)
But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away: How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious? For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory. For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth. For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious. Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech: And not as Moses, which put a vail over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished: But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ. But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart. Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away. Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.

 

[John 8:32]

How much more proof must one need?:

2 Corinthians 3:7-17 (KJV)
But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away: How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious? For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory. For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth. For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious. Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech: And not as Moses, which put a vail over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished: But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ. But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart. Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away. Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.

Please explain this simple statement then...

Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Mat 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

 

[Eventide]

Please explain this simple statement then...

IMO it's simple... The law is, and always will be in effect for sinners... Because that's what it amplifies... Sin in the flesh.. it shows us clearly how short we come to th glory of God..

It's not for the divine nature of Christ in us, because He perfectly fulfills the law (in us), in love.

And a Christian can be carnal at times... And sin in the flesh, and that's where the law has its work, in condemning sinful flesh.

That's my .02

 

[John 8:32]

IMO it's simple... The law is, and always will be in effect for sinners... Because that's what it amplifies... Sin in the flesh.. it shows us clearly how short we come to th glory of God..

It's not for the divine nature of Christ in us, because He perfectly fulfills the law (in us), in love.

And a Christian can be carnal at times... And sin in the flesh, and that's where the law has its work, in condemning sinful flesh.

That's my .02

What is sin? What do you mean sin in the flesh?

 

[Eventide]

Read Galatians 5 if you would like the full list of the works of the flesh as compared to the fruit of the Spirit.

 

[John 8:32]

Read Galatians 5 if you would like the full list of the works of the flesh as compared to the fruit of the Spirit.

I have read it and I fail to see anywhere in there that the law is done away. In fact it seems to reinforce the law to me.

My question was not "works of the flesh", my question is what is sin?

 

[Eventide]

I have read it and I fail to see anywhere in there that the law is done away. In fact it seems to reinforce the law to me.

It doesn't say that the Law is done away... It's still in full swing to condemn sin in the flesh.

Paul also tells us that if you're in CHRIST then you are not under the law, because there is no law against love, joy, peace, etc..

 

[John 8:32]

It doesn't say that the Law is done away... It's still in full swing to condemn sin in the flesh.

Paul also tells us that if you're in CHRIST then you are not under the law, because there is no law against love, joy, peace, etc..

To be under the law is under the penalty of the law. When one does not break the law, he is not under the penalty of the law or under the law. He is free.

If we are in Christ, we are not under the law, the penalty has been paid, and we are not subject to that penalty of the law.

 

[Eventide]

To be under the law is under the penalty of the law. When one does not break the law, he is not under the penalty of the law or under the law. He is free.

That's why our flesh is under the penalty of the law and remains condemned in accordance with the Law which is holy, just, and good... Whereas there is no such law in Christ by the fruit of HIS Spirit.. Love, joy, peace, etc..

And let's face the simple facts here.. Our old nature isn't getting any better, it is corrupt according to deceitful lusts and remains condemned under the Law..

Christ in us fulfills the Law perfectly of course.

 

[John 8:32]

That's why our flesh is under the penalty of the law and remains condemned in accordance with the Law which is holy, just, and good... Whereas there is no such law in Christ by the fruit of HIS Spirit.. Love, joy, peace, etc..

And let's face the simple facts here.. Our old nature isn't getting any better, it is corrupt according to deceitful lusts and remains condemned under the Law..

Christ in us fulfills the Law perfectly of course.

Our flesh is not under condemnation at repentance and receipt of the Holy Spirit...

Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

As long as we are walking after the Spirit, that is.

 

[Eventide]

Our flesh is not under condemnation at repentance and receipt of the Holy Spirit...

Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

As long as we are walking after the Spirit, that is.

I disagree 100% because our flesh remains condemned in us... It's not getting reformed in any way, in fact we are to reckon ourselves dead and live by the Spirit of Christ in us..

Simple example... A born again Christians commits a sin through the lusts of the flesh... That nature remains condemned and the law amplifies how sinful WE actually are.. Christ in you can't sin, he is perfect in every way..

I've started a thread CHRIST in you where it speaks of this struggle within our members, if you'd like to check it out.

Contrast that (our Adamic nature) to His divine nature in us.. And it's like night and day..

 

[tim-from-pa]

To be under the law is under the penalty of the law. When one does not break the law, he is not under the penalty of the law or under the law. He is free.

If we are in Christ, we are not under the law, the penalty has been paid, and we are not subject to that penalty of the law.

And therein, John 8:32, is the key what you just stated. I'm not sure why this is so difficult to grasp the difference amongst many here.

I'll make a simple illustration for everyone here to understand, trying for the umpteenth time.

If I break a traffic law by speeding, I get a ticket. I have to pay the price. Now, if someone comes along and pays that price, I am under no penalty of that offence and it is if I did not commit it. However, most folks here would say that just because the price is paid, and I'm no longer under it's penalty that this is the same as there is no such thing as speeding laws any longer. Now that the good guy paid my price, I can just go out and speed as much as I want. There's no longer any speed limits. : Huh???? How did we arrive at that conclusion?

 

[John 8:32]

And therein, John 8:32, is the key what you just stated. I'm not sure why this is so difficult to grasp the difference amongst many here.

I'll make a simple illustration for everyone here to understand, trying for the umpteenth time.

If I break a traffic law by speeding, I get a ticket. I have to pay the price. Now, if someone comes along and pays that price, I am under no penalty of that offence and it is if I did not commit it. However, most folks here would say that just because the price is paid, and I'm no longer under it's penalty that this is the same as there is no such thing as speeding laws any longer. Now that the good guy paid my price, I can just go out and speed as much as I want. There's no longer any speed limits. : Huh???? How did we arrive at that conclusion?

Excellent summation Tim, my friend. Makes it plain as day.