Are Christians to keep the Sabbath?

[heymikey80]

There's one Sabbath practice that remains, all others have been redesignated to this one Sabbath practice. Scripture says it. I believe it.

It's in Hebrews 4. The Saturday practice is gone. The Today practice remains.

The Today practice supersedes all other practices, because we are priests of this one action. And paradoxically the action is an inaction: a rest. Which is what a Sabbath practice actually is.

 

[AwakenedOne]

Jesus Christ kept the Sabbath...

Luk 4:16 And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read.

If He were going to change it why did He keep doing it?

Paul kept the Sabbath...

Act 13:13 Now when Paul and his company loosed from Paphos, they came to Perga in Pamphylia: and John departing from them returned to Jerusalem.
Act 13:14 But when they departed from Perga, they came to Antioch in Pisidia, and went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and sat down.

Act 13:42 And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath.

Here are Gentiles asking Paul to preach to them on which day of the week? The Sabbath day.

Act 13:44 And the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God.

Not just the Jews, but the whole almost all of the city.

Here is Paul teaching on the Sabbath day again, won't he ever learn?

Act 17:2 And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures,

I guess he didn't learn.

Act 18:4 And he reasoned in the synagogue every sabbath, and persuaded the Jews and the Greeks.

Greeks as well as Jews.

Heb 4:9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.

Sabbatismos - a keeping of a Sabbath.

If the day of worship was changed, why was the change kept such a secret?

If you want to know who really changed the day of worship...

http://www.godssabbathtruth.com/catholicchurchchangedsabbathsunday.html

Ok. You are twisting Scripture. Jesus kept the Sabbath ONLY because he was still under the law of Moses because he hadn't died on the cross yet and ushered in the era of grace.

It doesn't say Paul observed the Sabbath, it says that he went to teach and talk to the Jews on the Sabbath because the Sabbath is when they all congregated. And since they rejected Christ, they were still observing the law of Moses.

And EVERYTHING in the law was a type and shadow of things to come. INCLUDING THE SABBATH. The Sabbath is a type and shadow for the Day of Rest which is in Christ Jesus and all those who are in Christ are in the Day of rest.

Are you still carnal? Are you still under the law of Moses? What does the sabbath have to do with anything? The sabbath was under the LAW OF MOSES. The last I checked we are not under the law but under grace. We are no longer cleansed by observing the law because we have Christ now.

 

[John 8:32]

Ok. You are twisting Scripture. Jesus kept the Sabbath ONLY because he was still under the law of Moses because he hadn't died on the cross yet and ushered in the era of grace.

It doesn't say Paul observed the Sabbath, it says that he went to teach and talk to the Jews on the Sabbath because the Sabbath is when they all congregated. And since they rejected Christ, they were still observing the law of Moses.

Whoa, were the gentiles observing the Sabbath?

Act 13:42 And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath.

Act 13:44 And the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God.

And in the gentile city of Phillipi...

Act 16:12 And from thence to Philippi, which is the chief city of that part of Macedonia, and a colony: and we were in that city abiding certain days.
Act 16:13 And on the sabbath we went out of the city by a river side, where prayer was wont to be made; and we sat down, and spake unto the women which resorted thither.

Paul surely missed some golden opportunities to show the Sabbath had been changed here. Wonder why he didn't explain to them about Sunday worship?

And EVERYTHING in the law was a type and shadow of things to come. INCLUDING THE SABBATH. The Sabbath is a type and shadow for the Day of Rest which is in Christ Jesus and all those who are in Christ are in the Day of rest.

The Sabbath is a type and shadow of the Millenium. Re-read Co 2:16-17...

Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:

Don't let anyone judge you for the Sabbath days; if they weren't keeping them, why would anyone judge them? The subject would not have come up in Colosse, a gentile city.

Col 2:17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

Not the things that have come or were done about 25+ years earlier, but of things YET to come in the future.

Are you still carnal? Are you still under the law of Moses? What does the sabbath have to do with anything? The sabbath was under the LAW OF MOSES. The last I checked we are not under the law but under grace. We are no longer cleansed by observing the law because we have Christ now.

Well, if keeping the Ten Commandments, you know, not murdering, not lusting, not stealing, not bowing down to idols, not taking the name of God in vain and yes, keeping the Sabbath makes me carnal, then yes, I must be carnal.

I guess I am not spiritual enough to break any of the Ten Commandments yet and think it is pleasing to God. It must be interesting to have grown that much.

 

[felix]

Whoa, were the gentiles observing the Sabbath?

Act 13:42 And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath.

Act 13:44 And the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God.

The preaching was in a synagogue for Jews where gentiles where listening. This preaching was not targeted at gentiles.

And in the gentile city of Phillipi...

Act 16:12 And from thence to Philippi, which is the chief city of that part of Macedonia, and a colony: and we were in that city abiding certain days.
Act 16:13 And on the sabbath we went out of the city by a river side, where prayer was wont to be made; and we sat down, and spake unto the women which resorted thither.

Paul surely missed some golden opportunities to show the Sabbath had been changed here. Wonder why he didn't explain to them about Sunday worship?

When did REST became WORSHIP? I thought Sabbath is all about rest. Actually it was instituted because God RESTED on the seventh day. Not all Sabbaths are required to have a holy convocation either but it is mandatory all must REST.

If you read a bit more on the event, Paul not only went to prison on the same day of Sabbath, he also went to a new convert (who happen to be a pagan earlier that day) house and ate. Now the question is, did the pagan followed Sabbath by resting before he was converted? Was Paul observing the Sabbath by going to his home to eat?

It is quite funny to see people taking events out of context when the actual truth is quote contrary - i.e, disciples and apostles never followed Sabbath.

The Sabbath is a type and shadow of the Millenium. Re-read Co 2:16-17...

Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:

Don't let anyone judge you for the Sabbath days; if they weren't keeping them, why would anyone judge them? The subject would not have come up in Colosse, a gentile city.

Col 2:17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

Not the things that have come or were done about 25+ years earlier, but of things YET to come in the future.

It is true that Sabbath is a shadow and is yet to come in future... So, why is Paul advising not to judge anyone based on Sabbath on his day?

Well, if keeping the Ten Commandments, you know, not murdering, not lusting, not stealing, not bowing down to idols, not taking the name of God in vain and yes, keeping the Sabbath makes me carnal, then yes, I must be carnal.

I guess I am not spiritual enough to break any of the Ten Commandments yet and think it is pleasing to God. It must be interesting to have grown that much.

• Not murdering, but "hating your brother" does not violate Ten Commandments which is carnal.
• Not lusting was never mentioned in Ten Commandments. What is mentioned is adultery. What you mentioned is according to new covenant. Please don't mix it with the old.
• Not stealing, but not giving to a brother in need does not violate Ten Commandments which is carnal.
• Not bowing down to idols, but loving something or someone more than God does not violate Ten Commandments which is carnal.
• Not taking the name of God in vain, but swearing in the name of God does not violate Ten Commandments which is carnal.
• Following Sabbath, yet not seeking after the true rest with Christ is carnal.

You yourself agreed, you are carnal. What you must remember is,

(Rom 8:6) For to be carnally minded [is] death, but to be spiritually minded [is] life and peace.

When you speak about 10 commandments, it is your fault to not quote or read what God spoke completely.


(Exod 20:1-2) And God spoke all these words, saying: " I [am] the LORD your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. ..

When where you or your forefathers in bondage and came out of Egypt? While even the first words spoken by God while giving 10 commandments does not fit you or your forefathers, how can you justify it is spoken to you?

If God spoke to the devil as in Job, will you assume God is speaking those words to you? How can you then take something that is NOT spoken to your or your forefathers or gentiles, as if it is for you?

 

[n2thelight]

Christ became our sabbath

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Jesus Christ has now become the Sabbath rest for Christians under the New Covenant.[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]God has completed His work of the new creation. Christians are the first fruits of that creation (2 Cor.. 5:17; Gal. 6:15). Our rest, as it was enjoyed by Adam everyday, has again been restored. During this life we still deal with some remnants of the curse, but we recognize our rest in Christ (from meritorious works) through faith and daily worship (Col. 3:17). Due to His redemptive work, He has become our Sabbath rest. Jesus said, "Come to Me, all who are weary and heavy-laden, and I will give you rest. Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For My yoke is easy and My burden is light" (Mt. 11:28-30; c.f. Heb. 4:1-11). [/FONT]

Colossians 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:

 

[Tri Unity]

I find this discussion one of the strangest... why would Christians be arguing over what day of the week to worship? Of all the hair-brain and futile things to argue over... The apostles were provoked by this same sabbath-demon which infected the "pious" Jews. If the NT didn't have so many examples of them going through the same ridiculous exercise I would never have believed it possible. Thank goodness the Early Church Fathers left a witness that they left the sabbath behind to those unsaved Jews.

 

[felix]

Actually, Sabbath is not the day of worship at all. It is a deception started by a false prophet called Elen G White who started SDA. Sabbath is the day of rest not worship. However, it has been twisted and campaigned so much to make any Christian think Sabbath is the day of worship but in reality it is the day of rest.

The 10 commandments does not mention the holy convocation (convocation actually means, it is a calling "something called out" by definition, representing Sabbath being special day). The first Sabbath mentioned in Exod 16:30, did not have any gathering or meeting and scripture plainly says, they "rested".

 

[John 8:32]

The preaching was in a synagogue for Jews where gentiles where listening. This preaching was not targeted at gentiles.

The gentiles then asked Paul to come back the next SABBATH and teach them. Why didn't he say how about tomorrow? or how about next Sunday? Why is there no scriputre in the N.T. that plainly says the Sabbath was changed to Sunday. There is a very plain scripture about the change in the priesthood...

Heb 7:12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.

Why then, does the same author in the same book say that there remains a keeping of a Sabbath?

Heb 4:9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.

I won't bore everyone with the definition of rest (Sabbatismos) again.

When did REST became WORSHIP? I thought Sabbath is all about rest. Actually it was instituted because God RESTED on the seventh day. Not all Sabbaths are required to have a holy convocation either but it is mandatory all must REST.

Lev 23:3 Six days shall work be done: but the seventh day is the sabbath of rest, an holy convocation; ye shall do no work therein: it is the sabbath of the LORD in all your dwellings.

Lev 23:4 These are the feasts of the LORD, even holy convocations, which ye shall proclaim in their seasons.

OK, now which Sabbaths are not holy convocations?

If you read a bit more on the event, Paul not only went to prison on the same day of Sabbath, he also went to a new convert (who happen to be a pagan earlier that day) house and ate. Now the question is, did the pagan followed Sabbath by resting before he was converted? Was Paul observing the Sabbath by going to his home to eat?

It is quite funny to see people taking events out of context when the actual truth is quote contrary - i.e, disciples and apostles never followed Sabbath.

Even funnier, to see people deny straightforward statements of Christ...

Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Mat 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

So that they may hold to traditions of the RCC.

It is true that Sabbath is a shadow and is yet to come in future... So, why is Paul advising not to judge anyone based on Sabbath on his day?

Not exactly what he said, he said do not let anyone judge you for keeping the Sabbaths...

Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:

• Not murdering, but "hating your brother" does not violate Ten Commandments which is carnal.

Lev 19:17 Thou shalt not hate thy brother in thine heart: thou shalt in any wise rebuke thy neighbour, and not suffer sin upon him.

• Lusting was never mentioned in Ten Commandments. What is mentioned is adultery. What you mentioned is according to new covenant. Please don't mix it with the old.

Exo 20:17 Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's.

Rom 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

Ooops, Paul here says that lusting was defined by the 10th Commandment.

• Not stealing, but not giving to a brother in need does not violate Ten Commandments which is carnal.

Lev 23:22 And when ye reap the harvest of your land, thou shalt not make clean riddance of the corners of thy field when thou reapest, neither shalt thou gather any gleaning of thy harvest: thou shalt leave them unto the poor, and to the stranger: I am the LORD your God.

Lev 25:35 And if thy brother be waxen poor, and fallen in decay with thee; then thou shalt relieve him: yea, though he be a stranger, or a sojourner; that he may live with thee.
Lev 25:36 Take thou no usury of him, or increase: but fear thy God; that thy brother may live with thee.
Lev 25:37 Thou shalt not give him thy money upon usury, nor lend him thy victuals for increase.

Lev 25:39 And if thy brother that dwelleth by thee be waxen poor, and be sold unto thee; thou shalt not compel him to serve as a bondservant:
Lev 25:40 But as an hired servant, and as a sojourner, he shall be with thee, and shall serve thee unto the year of jubile:
Lev 25:41 And then shall he depart from thee, both he and his children with him, and shall return unto his own family, and unto the possession of his fathers shall he return.

• Not bowing down to idols, but loving something or someone more than God does not violate Ten Commandments which is carnal.

Exo 20:3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.

Not money, not cars, not houses, nothing.

Deu 13:1 If there arise among you a prophet, or a dreamer of dreams, and giveth thee a sign or a wonder,
Deu 13:2 And the sign or the wonder come to pass, whereof he spake unto thee, saying, Let us go after other gods, which thou hast not known, and let us serve them;
Deu 13:3 Thou shalt not hearken unto the words of that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams: for the LORD your God proveth you, to know whether ye love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul.
Deu 13:4 Ye shall walk after the LORD your God, and fear him, and keep his commandments, and obey his voice, and ye shall serve him, and cleave unto him.

• Not taking the name of God in vain, but swearing in the name of God does not violate Ten Commandments which is carnal.

What do you mean by swearing? Taking an oath to perform something to God is one thing, using God's name profanely is another.

Is using God's name lightly or under false pretenses swearing?

Deu 18:20 But the prophet, which shall presume to speak a word in my name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or that shall speak in the name of other gods, even that prophet shall die.

• Following Sabbath, yet not seeking after the true rest with Christ is carnal.

What is that rest? What is it that Christ is coming back to do? To establish His Kingdom that will bring rest to the earth, both physically and spiritually.

Dan 2:44 And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.
Dan 2:45 Forasmuch as thou sawest that the stone was cut out of the mountain without hands, and that it brake in pieces the iron, the brass, the clay, the silver, and the gold; the great God hath made known to the king what shall come to pass hereafter: and the dream is certain, and the interpretation thereof sure.

Isa 14:3 And it shall come to pass in the day that the LORD shall give thee rest from thy sorrow, and from thy fear, and from the hard bondage wherein thou wast made to serve,
Isa 14:4 That thou shalt take up this proverb against the king of Babylon, and say, How hath the oppressor ceased! the golden city ceased!
Isa 14:5 The LORD hath broken the staff of the wicked, and the sceptre of the rulers.
Isa 14:6 He who smote the people in wrath with a continual stroke, he that ruled the nations in anger, is persecuted, and none hindereth.
Isa 14:7 The whole earth is at rest, and is quiet: they break forth into singing.
Isa 14:8 Yea, the fir trees rejoice at thee, and the cedars of Lebanon, saying, Since thou art laid down, no feller is come up against us.

Hopefully the metaphors here do not go over your head.

What I think you mean by resting in Christ is resting from obedience...

Rom 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

2Co 10:5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;

You remember Christ don't you, the same One who said...

Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Mat 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Mat 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

You yourself agreed, you are carnal.

Not sure I remember that, but OK, I feel I am in good company...

Rom 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

Right there with the Apostle Paul.

What you must remember is,

(Rom 8:6) For to be carnally minded [is] death, but to be spiritually minded [is] life and peace.

Rom 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

Rom 2:13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

Rom 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

Rom 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

Rom 7:12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.

When you speak about 10 commandments, it is your fault to not quote or read what God spoke completely.


(Exod 20:1-2) And God spoke all these words, saying: " I [am] the LORD your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. ..

When where you or your forefathers in bondage and came out of Egypt? While even the first words spoken by God while giving 10 commandments does not fit you or your forefathers, how can you justify it is spoken to you?

If God spoke to the devil as in Job, will you assume God is speaking those words to you? How can you then take something that is NOT spoken to your or your forefathers or gentiles, as if it is for you?

Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Mat 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Mat 19:16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
Mat 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

We know that much more than just a jot or a tittle has 'passed' from the law. What that means is that which had to be fulfilled before the passing of a jot or tittle from the law could happen has happened. Matthew 5 is not a defense for the continuation of the law.

And the problem with Hebrews 4 being a defense for a literal Sabbath is it means you are condemned as an unbeliever if you don't keep it.

And we know from the whole context of the Bible that the law that gets upheld by faith (Romans 3:31) is the law 'love your neighbor as yourself', not circumcision, not Temple laws, not Sabbaths, nor Feasts, etc.

 

[John 8:32]

We know that much more than just a jot or a tittle has 'passed' from the law. What that means is that which had to be fulfilled before the passing of a jot or tittle from the law could happen has happened. Matthew 5 is not a defense for the continuation of the law.

Then heaven and earth has passed away or Christ is a liar. Choose one.

And the problem with Hebrews 4 being a defense for a literal Sabbath is it means you are condemned as an unbeliever if you don't keep it.

And we know from the whole context of the Bible that the law that gets upheld by faith (Romans 3:31) is the law 'love your neighbor as yourself', not circumcision, not Temple laws, not Sabbaths, nor Feasts, etc.

Not even the law against murder or adultery? OK, glad I don't live beside you.

 

[for_his_glory]

Genesis 2:
1 Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.

2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.

3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

Where does it say in verse 3 that God made the seventh day holy? It says God sanctified, or set apart, the seventh day as a day of rest. The Hebrew Sabbath was instituted by God given to Moses in Exodus 16 as a day that started from Friday at sunset to Saturday at sunset (I would think it to be Fri at 12:00 Am to Sat 12:00 Am) as a day of remembrance or a memorial of the Exodus exile as God parted the sea bringing the Hebrews to the promised land by defeating their foes. The Sabbath was a ceremonial law practiced and that of the Old Covenant, the same covenant that circumcised and sacrificed animals. Some may literally circumcise, but we do not sacrifice animals anymore. This ceremonial law was only for the Hebrews and not the Gentiles as now under the new covenant that joins Hebrews and gentiles together under the grace of God the ceremonial laws no longer exist as Jesus is now our sacrifice whom we find rest in.

Here is what scripture says about worship and I also need to add that it is not a four wall building that we are to worship in, but only that of the assembly gathered together with Christ in the midst of them whether it be in side or outside as Church being the body of Christ needs to be a place of teaching, lifting up and edifying one another through the word of God.

Matthew 18:20 For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.

John 4:
20 Our fathers worshipped in this mountain; and ye say, that in Jerusalem is the place where men ought to worship.

21 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father.

22 Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.

23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.

1 Chronicles 16
29 Give unto the LORD the glory due unto his name: bring an offering, and come before him: worship the LORD in the beauty of holiness.

Mark 2: 27 And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:

Luke:13:
14 And the ruler of the synagogue answered with indignation, because that Jesus had healed on the sabbath day, and said unto the people, There are six days in which men ought to work: in them therefore come and be healed, and not on the sabbath day.

15 The Lord then answered him, and said, Thou hypocrite, doth not each one of you on the sabbath loose his ox or his ass from the stall, and lead him away to watering?

16 And ought not this woman, being a daughter of Abraham, whom Satan hath bound, lo, these eighteen years, be loosed from this bond on the sabbath day?

17 And when he had said these things, all his adversaries were ashamed: and all the people rejoiced for all the glorious things that were done by him.

 

[farouk]

In the Gospels, whereas the Lord Jesus talks about the other 9 of the 10 commandment, He does not indicate that the Sabbath is to be continued in its Old Testament form. Today, Christians need to guard against going back to the types and shadows of the Old Testament, rather than rejoicing in the fulness of Gospel light, and the fulfillment in Christ of the Old Testament Scriptures.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Then heaven and earth has passed away or Christ is a liar. Choose one.

You're not reading the passage carefully enough.

Jesus said between the time he was speaking and until heaven and earth disappear nothing could cause so much as a jot or tittle to disappear from the law except the fulfillment of something. And we know that the condition that must be met between then, when he was speaking, and when heaven and earth disappear (the fulfillment) has happened. How do we know that? The Bible plainly speaks of much more than just a jot or a tittle legitimately disappearing from the law. An entire book is devoted to that subject, in fact (Hebrews, of course).

That being true (that some of the law has indeed 'passed' and is no longer required to be literally kept) we know that the fulfillment he spoke about has happened to allow that change. So, Matthew 5 is hardly the passage to use to somehow prove the law is still in effect and can't be changed (and therefore the Sabbath is still required to be kept). It's the passage that shows us, on this side of the resurrection, the exact opposite!

Not even the law against murder or adultery? OK, glad I don't live beside you.

How can you break the commands 'Do not murder', and 'Do not commit adultery' and not break the royal command of scripture 'love your neighbor as yourself'? If I broke those I would not be upholding the law that faith upholds, which is 'love your neighbor as yourself'.

"...he who loves his fellowman has fulfilled (upheld) the law. 9 The commandments, “Do not commit adultery,” “Do not murder,” “Do not steal,” “Do not covet,” and whatever other commandment there may be, are summed up in this one rule: “Love your neighbor as yourself.” " (Romans 13:8-9 NIV1984)

"The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love." (Galatians 5:6 NIV1984)

Faith fulfilling the law of love is what is required of the people of God. Not faith that gets circumcised, or sacrifices animals, or observes a Festival cycle, or keeps a Sabbath. Those were types and shadows cast ahead of the appearance of the Body of Christ.

 

[felix]

Then heaven and earth has passed away or Christ is a liar. Choose one.



Not even the law against murder or adultery? OK, glad I don't live beside you.

Neither heavens passed away nor Christ a liar. You just don't read properly what Christ said, ie, He came to fulfill.

You also forgot, the neither the law was given to gentiles nor Christ came for gentiles.

It is only after His death He asked to make disciples of all nations, and the preachings of Christ are clearly in NT.

Tell me one good reason, as gentile, I should follow the law.

Sent from mobile.

 

[chakham]

Neither heavens passed away nor Christ a liar. You just don't read properly what Christ said, ie, He came to fulfill.

You also forgot, the neither the law was given to gentiles nor Christ came for gentiles.

It is only after His death He asked to make disciples of all nations, and the preachings of Christ are clearly in NT.

Tell me one good reason, as gentile, I should follow the law.

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Ahh so the man of lawlessness has a name.

Here you go, these are the words of your Creator He speaks of His salvation which He gives freely to those who love Him.

He is speaking to you oh son of a stranger.

From Yeshayah chapter 56

Thus says the Yehovah, Keep judgment, and do justice; for my salvation is near to come, and my righteousness to be revealed.
Happy is the man who does this, and the son of man who lays hold on it; who keeps the sabbath and does not profane it, and keeps his hand from doing any evil. Do not let the son of the stranger, who has joined himself to the Yehovah, speak, saying, Yehovah has completely separated me from his people; nor let the eunuch say, Behold, I am a dry tree.
For thus says the Lord to the eunuchs who keep my sabbaths, and choose the things that please me, and take hold of my covenant;
And to them will I give in my house and within my walls a memorial and a name better than sons and of daughters; I will give them an everlasting name, that shall not be cut off.
Also the sons of the stranger, who join themselves to the Yehovah, to serve him, and to love the name of Yehovah, to be his servants, every one who keeps the sabbath and does not profane it, and all who hold fast to my covenant;
Even them will I bring to my holy mountain, and make them joyful in my house of prayer; their burnt offerings and their sacrifices shall be accepted upon my altar; for my house shall be called a house of prayer for all peoples.

Oh and one more thing you man of lawlessness. It is written there was a mixed multitude that departed with Israel from Egypt. They were known as strangers a.k.a gentiles and those who sojourned with Israel were under the same instruction as Israel.

And when a stranger shall sojourn with you, and will keep the Passover to the Lord, let all his males be circumcised, and then let him come near and keep it; and he shall be as one who is born in the land; for no uncircumcised person shall eat of it.
One law shall be for him who is native born, and for the stranger who sojourns among you.
Thus did all the people of Israel; as Yehovah commanded Moses and Aaron, so did they.

 

[felix]

Ahh so the man of lawlessness has a name.

Here you go, these are the words are of your Creator He speaks of His salvation which He gives freely to those who love Him.

He is speaking to you oh son of a stranger.

Thus says the Yehovah, Keep judgment, and do justice; for my salvation is near to come, and my righteousness to be revealed.
Happy is the man who does this, and the son of man who lays hold on it; who keeps the sabbath and does not profane it, and keeps his hand from doing any evil. Do not let the son of the stranger, who has joined himself to the Yehovah, speak, saying, Yehovah has completely separated me from his people; nor let the eunuch say, Behold, I am a dry tree.
For thus says the Lord to the eunuchs who keep my sabbaths, and choose the things that please me, and take hold of my covenant;
And to them will I give in my house and within my walls a memorial and a name better than sons and of daughters; I will give them an everlasting name, that shall not be cut off.
Also the sons of the stranger, who join themselves to the Yehovah, to serve him, and to love the name of Yehovah, to be his servants, every one who keeps the sabbath and does not profane it, and all who hold fast to my covenant;
Even them will I bring to my holy mountain, and make them joyful in my house of prayer; their burnt offerings and their sacrifices shall be accepted upon my altar; for my house shall be called a house of prayer for all peoples.

Yeshayah chapter 56

Since you quoted Isa 56, let me ask some questions from it:

1. So tell me Kumi Ori, which covenant is chapter 56 referring to?
Hint: Old Covenant

2. Who is the person referring in Isa 56 in context of foreigner?
Hint: who has joined himself to the Yehovah

3. What must one do to be joined himself to the Yehovah?
Hint: Circumcise

I can only laugh when an uncircumcised gentile following Sabbath and justifying himself saying he is following the obsolete old covenant.

 

[John 8:32]

Since you quoted Isa 56, let me ask some questions from it:

1. So tell me Kumi Ori, which covenant is chapter 56 referring to?
Hint: Old Covenant

The old covenant did not offer salvation (eternal life), so what covenant could He be referring to? My turn to give you a hint...

Isa 56:1 Thus saith the LORD, Keep ye judgment, and do justice: for my salvation is near to come, and my righteousness to be revealed.

Isa 56:7 Even them will I bring to my holy mountain, and make them joyful in my house of prayer: their burnt offerings and their sacrifices shall be accepted upon mine altar; for mine house shall be called an house of prayer for all people.

2. Who is the person referring in Isa 56 in context of foreigner?
Hint: who has joined himself to the Yehovah

Another hint:

Rom 11:17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;

3. What must one do to be joined himself to the Yehovah?
Hint: Circumcise

Yep! You are one for three...

Rom 2:29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

I can only laugh when an uncircumcised gentile following Sabbath and justifying himself saying he is following the obsolete old covenant.

Actually, I weep for those who reject God's Ten Commandments...

Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

 

[John 8:32]

In the Gospels, whereas the Lord Jesus talks about the other 9 of the 10 commandment, He does not indicate that the Sabbath is to be continued in its Old Testament form. Today, Christians need to guard against going back to the types and shadows of the Old Testament, rather than rejoicing in the fulness of Gospel light, and the fulfillment in Christ of the Old Testament Scriptures.

Ummm,

Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Wanna show me a scripture that separates the Sabbath from the other nine and says that it is done away?

 

[John 8:32]

Neither heavens passed away nor Christ a liar. You just don't read properly what Christ said, ie, He came to fulfill.

You also forgot, the neither the law was given to gentiles nor Christ came for gentiles.

I guess I am not reading into it properly. I just kinda thought Jesus Christ meant what He said and that I didn't have to twist it around to say something else.

Christ didn't come for the gentiles? What does that mean? They and you are Gehenna fodder?

It is only after His death He asked to make disciples of all nations, and the preachings of Christ are clearly in NT.

Yes the preachings are Christ are clearly in the four Gospels as well as quotes from the Epistles.

Tell me one good reason, as gentile, I should follow the law.

Sent from mobile.

1) Christ said to...

Mat 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

2) Paul says the law is not done away...

Rom 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

3) The Church keeps His commandments...

Rev 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

And for the bonus round...

Bonus) Those who keep the Commandments are given the right to the Tree of Life...

Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

 

[John 8:32]

You're not reading the passage carefully enough.

Funny, it seems straight forward enough to me...

Jesus said between the time he was speaking and until heaven and earth disappear nothing could cause so much as a jot or tittle to disappear from the law except the fulfillment of something.

No, you are rearranging and adding to the text...

Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Until heaven and earth pass, nothing will pass from the law until ALL is fulfulled.

Is all fulfilled? Christ returned? The Kingdom ruling on earth? Did you look at the sky the morning? Put your feet on the earth?

And we know that the condition that must be met between then, when he was speaking, and when heaven and earth disappear (the fulfillment) has happened. How do we know that? The Bible plainly speaks of much more than just a jot or a tittle legitimately disappearing from the law. An entire book is devoted to that subject, in fact (Hebrews, of course).

Hebrews says no such thing. The entire book is devoted to a change in the Priesthood from the Levitical (Aaronical) priesthood to a Melchisidec Priesthood.

That being true (that some of the law has indeed 'passed' and is no longer required to be literally kept)

Not what it says, Hebrews does not say the law has passes, it says there needs to be a change in the law of Moses, not the Ten Commandments...

Heb 7:11 If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?
Heb 7:12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.

What law? The law of the priesthood. The Levitical priesthood was hereditary, genetic. Only those sons of Levi and Aaron could be priests. Christ was a Jew, of the tribe of Judah and could NOT be a Levitical priest. He was not a Levite.

Heb 7:13 For he of whom these things are spoken pertaineth to another tribe, of which no man gave attendance at the altar.
Heb 7:14 For it is evident that our Lord sprang out of Juda; of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood.

And we see this is of the law of Moses concerning the priests. Separate from the Ten Commandments. I have quoted scripture about 100 times showing the difference. Ten Commandments inside the Ark. Law of Moses in a pocket on the side of the Ark or laid on the tabel beside the Ark, showing the seaparation.

Heb 7:15 And it is yet far more evident: for that after the similitude of Melchisedec there ariseth another priest,

we know that the fulfillment he spoke about has happened to allow that change. So, Matthew 5 is hardly the passage to use to somehow prove the law is still in effect and can't be changed (and therefore the Sabbath is still required to be kept). It's the passage that shows us, on this side of the resurrection, the exact opposite!

We do not know such a thing. You have prooftexted to try to give substance to a preconceived notion.

How can you break the commands 'Do not murder', and 'Do not commit adultery' and not break the royal command of scripture 'love your neighbor as yourself'? If I broke those I would not be upholding the law that faith upholds, which is 'love your neighbor as yourself'.

How can you then break the command that says

Deu 5:12 Keep the sabbath day to sanctify it, as the LORD thy God hath commanded thee.
Deu 5:13 Six days thou shalt labour, and do all thy work:
Deu 5:14 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, nor thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thine ox, nor thine ass, nor any of thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates; that thy manservant and thy maidservant may rest as well as thou.

God's Sabbath, not mine, not the Jews. Only God has the power to sanctify (set apart for holy use) and bless a day and He did bless and sancitfy the seventh day. (Gen 2:3)

"...he who loves his fellowman has fulfilled (upheld) the law. 9 The commandments, “Do not commit adultery,” “Do not murder,” “Do not steal,” “Do not covet,” and whatever other commandment there may be, are summed up in this one rule: “Love your neighbor as yourself.” " (Romans 13:8-9 NIV1984)

"The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love." (Galatians 5:6 NIV1984)

Faith fulfilling the law of love is what is required of the people of God. Not faith that gets circumcised, or sacrifices animals, or observes a Festival cycle, or keeps a Sabbath. Those were types and shadows cast ahead of the appearance of the Body of Christ.

The law of love, huh? You forgot a couple of scriptures about the law of love...

Joh 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

Joh 14:21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

Joh 15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

1Jn 5:2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
1Jn 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.