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felix
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Did I mention the weekly Sabbath alone? Read again... I mentioned the Passover Sabbath before the weekly Sabbath.
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Are Christians to keep the Sabbath?
- Thread starter Gordon
- Start date
Did I mention the weekly Sabbath alone? Read again... I mentioned the Passover Sabbath before the weekly Sabbath.
Which occured on Thursday, but began the evening before. This is the Sabbath that they had to hurry to get the bodies in the tomb before it began, so...
Wednesday night = 1 night
Thursday day = 1 day
Thursday night = 2 nights
Friday day = 2 days
Friday night = 3 nights
Saturday day = 3 days
that is 3 days and three nights, so the resurrection was about sunset on Saturday afternoon...
Mat 12:40 For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
Joh 2:19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.
Joh 2:20 Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?
Joh 2:21 But he spake of the temple of his body.
Mar 9:31 For he taught his disciples, and said unto them, The Son of man is delivered into the hands of men, and they shall kill him; and after that he is killed, he shall rise the third day.
Mat 27:63 Saying, Sir, we remember that that deceiver said, while he was yet alive, After three days I will rise again.
So, three days and three nights. In three days, on the third day and after three days. The only possible time span that will satisfy all these is 72 hours. Three days and three nights. Buried at about sunset on Wednesday evening and raised at about sunset on Saturday evening.
Joh 20:1 The first day of the week cometh Mary Magdalene early, when it was yet dark, unto the sepulchre, and seeth the stone taken away from the sepulchre.
Joh 20:2 Then she runneth, and cometh to Simon Peter, and to the other disciple, whom Jesus loved, and saith unto them, They have taken away the Lord out of the sepulchre, and we know not where they have laid him.
Joh 20:3 Peter therefore went forth, and that other disciple, and came to the sepulchre.
Joh 20:4 So they ran both together: and the other disciple did outrun Peter, and came first to the sepulchre.
Joh 20:5 And he stooping down, and looking in, saw the linen clothes lying; yet went he not in.
Still dark on Sunday morning and He was already gone.
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He was Crucified on Passover. Not Passover week. Passover which is Friday.
Friday before 6:00 PM = 1 day
Saturday until 6:00 PM = 1 Day
On the third day He rose! = Sunday = [Anytime after Saturday 6:00 PM]
Saturday is the Sabbath.
Sunday is The Lord's Day.
There is no Wednesday evening or Thursday in the equation.
I understand three days and three nights in the heart of the earth, however, He was crucified on Friday, because it was the sabbath they hurried...
JLB
tim-from-pa
Member
Nice explanations, John 8:32. You always say these things better than I can.
From my own explanations, I, for the record, am not saying keeping the Law saves anyone. I am saying that if one is begotten by God will tend to emulate the Law, both physically (which is just the surface of things) and in a deeper and more profound manner spiritually.
People here say that the new commandment is to love. I don't disagree. But if one loves, is he going to have idols? Is he going to disrespect his parents? Is he going to lust after another's wife? and likewise is he going to not put aside the specific day the Lord chose?
Look. Let's use an analogy. The Law says, if you are a cat, then you must meow like a cat, scratch like a cat, and catch mice like a cat. So here we all are "trying" to do that and we are not cats (i.e. analogous to being saved). Trying to be cats don't make us cats. That's what the Law is like. Now, the nature is written in our hearts. Now being cats, we can easily meow like a cat, scratch like a cat, catch mice like a cat, because we are now cats. Notice the standards did not change --- it's the new nature.
I'm not really certain why this is so difficult for people to understand and accept. The idea of "not being under the Law" is equated to "the Law is done away with". That's two different things. What we are not under is the covenant of the Law as self-works for salvation. What is done away with by Christ's death is not the keeping of the law, but the curse of the Law. If we sin, we have an Advocate. But on the concrete level, we do not know what sin is without the Law. On the more spiritual and abstract level, we have love, which if we truly have will at the very least conform to the Law and as the NT teaches, even add to it. For example, in the OT Law, the person was an adulterer if he messed with another woman. Now, Jesus raises the bar and says if we so much as look at her with lust, we've done the same thing. So, what does this prove? Does it prove we all fall short as many here will attest to? Sure does. Does this then say, "Well we can't keep the Law therefore we should stop trying?" No, not by a long shot. Do God's commandments. If you fall, whether one time or seventy time seven, get up, brush yourself off and then try again to live the right way.
From my own explanations, I, for the record, am not saying keeping the Law saves anyone. I am saying that if one is begotten by God will tend to emulate the Law, both physically (which is just the surface of things) and in a deeper and more profound manner spiritually.
People here say that the new commandment is to love. I don't disagree. But if one loves, is he going to have idols? Is he going to disrespect his parents? Is he going to lust after another's wife? and likewise is he going to not put aside the specific day the Lord chose?
Look. Let's use an analogy. The Law says, if you are a cat, then you must meow like a cat, scratch like a cat, and catch mice like a cat. So here we all are "trying" to do that and we are not cats (i.e. analogous to being saved). Trying to be cats don't make us cats. That's what the Law is like. Now, the nature is written in our hearts. Now being cats, we can easily meow like a cat, scratch like a cat, catch mice like a cat, because we are now cats. Notice the standards did not change --- it's the new nature.
I'm not really certain why this is so difficult for people to understand and accept. The idea of "not being under the Law" is equated to "the Law is done away with". That's two different things. What we are not under is the covenant of the Law as self-works for salvation. What is done away with by Christ's death is not the keeping of the law, but the curse of the Law. If we sin, we have an Advocate. But on the concrete level, we do not know what sin is without the Law. On the more spiritual and abstract level, we have love, which if we truly have will at the very least conform to the Law and as the NT teaches, even add to it. For example, in the OT Law, the person was an adulterer if he messed with another woman. Now, Jesus raises the bar and says if we so much as look at her with lust, we've done the same thing. So, what does this prove? Does it prove we all fall short as many here will attest to? Sure does. Does this then say, "Well we can't keep the Law therefore we should stop trying?" No, not by a long shot. Do God's commandments. If you fall, whether one time or seventy time seven, get up, brush yourself off and then try again to live the right way.
tim-from-pa
Member
This is a different subject and not to derail the thread, but where in all creation did you get the idea that Wednesday or Thursday is "not in the equation"? The bible does not say that. If anyone promised you a 3 day and 3 night vacation at the casino resort, and then they entertained you from Friday evening until predawn Sunday morning and claimed that was your 3 days and 3 nights, you'd probably be the first (along with everyone else) to claim you were gypped. And rightly so. Because you can't fit 3 days and 3 nights into that time frame any more than fitting 10 pounds of fudge in a 5 pound bag, no matter how hard we try. Even innocent children are the first to ask, "How is Friday until Sunday morning 3 days and 3 nights?" I hear this question from traditional Christians all the time. If there was nothing to it, then the question would not be asked in the first place. The answer is that one cannot fit 3 days and 3 nights (a full 72 hours) into that time frame. He was crucified on a Wednesday. The prophet Daniel also has a dual prophecy about the "middle of the week" but that's another topic for another time.
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felix
Guest
Do you know neither Mary and women nor disciples were able to visit the tomb because of the Sabbaths?
Sent from mobile.
Yes Daniel's 70 weeks is another topic which you seem to be confused about.
Was Jesus Christ crucified on The Passover. Yes or No.
31 Therefore, because it was the Preparation Day, that the bodies should not remain on the cross on the Sabbath (for that Sabbath was a high day), the Jews asked Pilate that their legs might be broken, and that they might be taken away.
All the human reasoning in the world can not explain away the fact that:
- Jesus was crucified on the Passover!
- The Passover was on Friday for the Sabbath started at 6:00 PM Friday!
No Wednesday or Thursday in the equation period.
Friday before 6:00 PM = Day 1
Saturday before 6:00 PM Day 2
Sunday Day 3. On the third Day He rose!
The clock starts Friday, can't get around that!
All the other passages say three days only.
Matthew 12:40 is the only one to say three nights.
Some say Matthew 12:40 should be rendered Three days and nights..., and that the translators put the word Three in front of nights because that's what they considered at the time.
All I know is Jesus was crucified on the Passover on Friday before the Sabbath!
JLB
tim-from-pa
Member
Yes, he was crucified on Passover the 14th of Nisan. Buried for the start of Unleavened Bread, and arose to fulfill the feast of Firstfruits. Now, if Unleavened Bread is on the 15th of Nisan, all we have to do is add 3 (72 hours) to that. Not too hard. Nisan 15+3 = Nisan 18. Nisan 18 is a Sunday (late Saturday by Gregorian calendar reckoning) as Firstfruits always occurs on a Sunday. Now, if the 18th of the month falls on a Sunday, it doesn't take too much mathematical insight to understand that the 14th is on a Wednesday. While I agree he was crucified on Passover to fulfill the feast, I don't know where you're getting this idea that it had to fall on a Friday. Passover is a movable feast day, occurring any day of the week. Only Firstfruits and Pentecost fall on the same day of the week.
One other thing. I don't understand where you get the idea that sundown was 6PM. It was approximately that, as Passover is near the equinox (although the equinox is not used in determining Passover). The day started at sundown, There were no cuckoo clocks in Israel back then announcing the start of the Sabbath at 6PM. And John mentions that Sabbath was a High Day another name for a feast day of Unleavened Bread and did not necessarily fall on the weekly Sabbath.
All the mumbo jumbo in the world does not get around plain clear scripture!
Now when the Sabbath was past, Mary Magdalene, Mary the mother of James, and Salome bought spices, that they might come and anoint Him. 2 Very early in the morning, on the first day of the week, they came to the tomb when the sun had risen.
Passover = Friday
Sabbath = Saturday
First day of the week = Sunday
Brother, you couldn't be more wrong!
JLB
jasoncran
Member
:eeeekkk
she told in short that i was denying my heritage, i would tell nay i have accepted it all in christ. so dont think that its always ok to go into the law, it can draw you away. i have seen another here that often will call me and i him and nearly did the same too. he is a gentile.today we were texting each other on the oral traditions of beersherit(genesis) and moses penning it. when i think of my blood ties to isreal and judiasm i must immerse myself in the grace as its easy too for me even now to leave christ.
sorry tim if did what you say and didnt watch it. i would go fully into the law and forget our lord. its one thing to think you are of isreal as you do. i know that iam. i have seen my family and the pictures and done chanukah in sorts a lad. dad has the torah and i have the tanach. dad has the mezzuza. he doesnt do the temple . i must warn you all. i know that it has happened to a friend of mine. he was into messianic judiasm and taught his daughters all that. one become a muslim the other loved christ and went to full blown orthodox judaism. she later repented is kosher(vegan). as is the dad. her dad says that in part his teachings of isreal are to blame. for years she the girl i mentioned that left christ used to argue with me over moses and was shocked that i said the law is complete and has the option not to do kosher laws. she despised that.
she told in short that i was denying my heritage, i would tell nay i have accepted it all in christ. so dont think that its always ok to go into the law, it can draw you away. i have seen another here that often will call me and i him and nearly did the same too. he is a gentile.today we were texting each other on the oral traditions of beersherit(genesis) and moses penning it. when i think of my blood ties to isreal and judiasm i must immerse myself in the grace as its easy too for me even now to leave christ.
Tri Unity
Member
Most "Jews" today say they are Jews, but they are not. The majority of today’s Jews are Ashkenazi Jews who are from the bloodline of Japheth, not Shem. (Genesis 10:3 says that Ashkenaz was the son of Gomer who was the son of Japheth.) Ashkenazi Jews account for over 80 percent of the world's Jews. They are mostly those Jews known today as Zionists.
The Ashkenazi Jews are Turks from Rus. They made a national conversion to Judaism during the Middle Ages to avoid being drawn into the crusades. They are not real Jews. They make a big song a dance about their orthodoxy; but they have no more claims on Israel than any other westerner. I am more Jewish than they are. The only authentic orthodox Jews are the Sephardic Jews. They came to Europe in the Middle Ages with the Muslims during the take-over of Spain, hence they are known as Spanish Jews. They lived in Egypt, Babylon and Persia for over 1000 years. These ones produced the Babylonian Talmud. They were chiefly from Babylon. Babylon was the centre of Judaism of 1500 years. There are a lot of lies told about Judaism because many of them are political and financial opportunists. Germany is still paying financial compensation to anyone who puts their hand up and says they had a relative in the holocaust, so this has brought about a flood of people claiming to be Jews when they are not. Christ called them liars. (Revelation 2:9, 3:9)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashkenazi_Jews
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sephardic
Anyone interested in knowing more should read “The Thirteenth Tribe”, by Arthur Koestler. He was a historian who was actually an Ashkenazi Jew who blew the whistle on the whole scam. He died mysteriously after writing his book.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Thirteenth_Tribe
The Ashkenazi Jews are Turks from Rus. They made a national conversion to Judaism during the Middle Ages to avoid being drawn into the crusades. They are not real Jews. They make a big song a dance about their orthodoxy; but they have no more claims on Israel than any other westerner. I am more Jewish than they are. The only authentic orthodox Jews are the Sephardic Jews. They came to Europe in the Middle Ages with the Muslims during the take-over of Spain, hence they are known as Spanish Jews. They lived in Egypt, Babylon and Persia for over 1000 years. These ones produced the Babylonian Talmud. They were chiefly from Babylon. Babylon was the centre of Judaism of 1500 years. There are a lot of lies told about Judaism because many of them are political and financial opportunists. Germany is still paying financial compensation to anyone who puts their hand up and says they had a relative in the holocaust, so this has brought about a flood of people claiming to be Jews when they are not. Christ called them liars. (Revelation 2:9, 3:9)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashkenazi_Jews
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sephardic
Anyone interested in knowing more should read “The Thirteenth Tribe”, by Arthur Koestler. He was a historian who was actually an Ashkenazi Jew who blew the whistle on the whole scam. He died mysteriously after writing his book.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Thirteenth_Tribe
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felix
Guest
JLB,
(Num 28:16-18) ' On the fourteenth day of the first month [is] the Passover of the LORD. And on the fifteenth day of this month [is] the feast; unleavened bread shall be eaten for seven days. On the first day [you shall have] a holy convocation. You shall do no customary work.
According to Passover in the law, the day immediately after the Passover is the high Sabbath as mentioned by John 19:31. The day immediately after the high Sabbath is the weekly Sabbath. There are two Sabbaths.
What you can't get around is the "first day of the week" which is Sunday.
Now when the Sabbath was past, Mary Magdalene, Mary the mother of James, and Salome bought spices, that they might come and anoint Him. 2 Very early in the morning, on the first day of the week, they came to the tomb when the sun had risen.
42 Now when evening had come, because it was the Preparation Day, that is, the day before the Sabbath,
That day was the Preparation, and the Sabbath drew near. 55 And the women who had come with Him from Galilee followed after, and they observed the tomb and how His body was laid. 56 Then they returned and prepared spices and fragrant oils. And they rested on the Sabbath according to the commandment. Luke 23:54
On the next day, which followed the Day of Preparation, the chief priests and Pharisees gathered together to Pilate, 63 saying, "Sir, we remember, while He was still alive, how that deceiver said, 'After three days I will rise.' 64 Therefore command that the tomb be made secure until the third day, lest His disciples come by night and steal Him away, and say to the people, 'He has risen from the dead.' So the last deception will be worse than the first."
Passover = Crucified = Day 1
Next day Sabbath = Day 2 - Day of conversation with Pilate,chief priests and Pharisees gathered together to Pilate.
Day after Sabbath = First Day of the week = Third Day - Day 3
JLB
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Jesus knew exactly how long a day is (He created the days)...
Joh 11:9 Jesus answered, Are there not twelve hours in the day? If any man walk in the day, he stumbleth not, because he seeth the light of this world.
Joh 11:10 But if a man walk in the night, he stumbleth, because there is no light in him.
He was making a different point here, but it is obvious from this scripture that He understood there were 12 hours in the daylight portion and twelve hours in the night time. Now, He said the only sign He would give that He was the Messiah was...
Mat 12:39 But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas:
Mat 12:40 For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
3 days X 12 hours = 36 hours
3 nights X 12 hours = 36 hours
36 hours + 36 hours = 72 hours
Jesus Christ had to be in the grave 72 hours and as the scriptures show, it must be just 72 hours. You cannot have a Friday crucifixion and a Sunday morning resurrection and have three days and three nights.
What day is the first day of the week?
What day is the Sabbath?
What day is the day before the Sabbath?
JLB
Exactly, this is another reason why a Friday crucifixion and a Sunday morning resurrection cannot work. Where did they go to procure the spices?
Everything closed at sunset Friday and did not reopen until Sunday morning, het we read...
OK they bought and prepared spices...
Mar 16:1 And when the sabbath was past, Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James, and Salome, had bought sweet spices, that they might come and anoint him.
Luk 23:56 And they returned, and prepared spices and ointments; and rested the sabbath day according to the commandment.
Then, they rested on the Sabbath, so they had to have bought and prepared the spices on Friday. They could not have bought them on Thursday...
Joh 19:31 The Jews therefore, because it was the preparation, that the bodies should not remain upon the cross on the sabbath day, (for that sabbath day was an high day,) besought Pilate that their legs might be broken, and that they might be taken away.
For Thursday was a high day, the First Day of Unleavened Bread.
Interesting, you read right over the part about that Sabbath being a high day.
Ah, but the passage in the book of Jonah is never rendered to be a few parts of a day. The Hebrew there is plain that it is three daylight portions and three night time portions.
The all I can say is according to...
Mat 12:39 But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas:
Mat 12:40 For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
You've got the wrong Jesus.
Joh 20:1 The first day of the week cometh Mary Magdalene early, when it was yet dark, unto the sepulchre, and seeth the stone taken away from the sepulchre.
Joh 20:2 Then she runneth, and cometh to Simon Peter, and to the other disciple, whom Jesus loved, and saith unto them, They have taken away the Lord out of the sepulchre, and we know not where they have laid him.
Yepper, He was already gone before daylight on Sunday morning, because He was raised around sunset on Sabbath afternoon. Exactly three days and three nights after He was buried, proving that He was the Messiah, the Saviour of the world.
Oh, and you might want to rethink that counting business.